The N Word: Who Should Be Able to Use it and Why

[Belazor et Britannia]

I'm not advocating censorship of any kind. I'm saying a person should make the individual choice to not use a particular kind of language because it is inappropriate. I swear, certainly. But I genuinely try not to. Alas, I'm human.

I see you ignored Decado / DBT's post

To summarise what it said; communities are free to re-define words on their own.

If in some other country, -er means "man" then surely that language in itself is not racist, is it?

Well, my point was segregation continued through the '70s in some places. And it was just as bad then as it was during any other time it existed. Emmett Till was killed in 1955, as an example.

It was still "officially" abolished before then, surely?
Racism still exists, doesn't mean public transportation agencies can still have white and black separate seats.

No, it means you use passive-aggressively homophobic language.

See first paragraph / DBT's post

And sometimes the majority within a society has attached a meaning to a word without the consent of the social group they're targeting.

See first paragraph / DBT's post

You do realize that one of the stereotypes against black Americans is/was that they are/were shiftless and lazy, right? An impoverished black woman or man who was on welfare, or was unemployed, wasn't just out of luck. They were a lazy n----r. So, yes, the way you and your friends use that term is furthering stereotypes, and thus passive-aggressively racist.

Person X in your group is lazy.

The stereotype against black people is that they are lazy.

The racial slur against black people in that context is a lazy n----r.

You called the person a n----r.

Because n----rs are lazy.

Surely you can see the logic train there, yeah? Works the same way with "gay," which I'll get to in a minute.

Your logic is still flawed because of what I've been forced to re-iterate 3 times already in this post

I would disagree. Racism in private is just as bad as racism in public. It's still racism. Just the one won't get you punched in the face.

5th time...

You've never heard of the Brown Paper Bag Test, then? Basically, to get into certain fraternities or sororities, you have to be "black enough" to get in.

I'm gonna ignore the "historically" bit because it's irrelevant to today's norms.

Are you saying that a private group of people (i.e. not a government agency or some other public forum) is not free to choose who can join based on whatever criteria they want?

Perhaps you're suggesting that the police should enforce a "colour and gender quota" on a persons circle of friends too - after all, if you don't have friends from #000000 to #FFFFFF then you're racist, apparently.

A sorority is not a public forum, every one of them have different "entrance exams" and it's not racist if it's an invitation-only group of people and they choose to reject someone.

Now if this was a workplace, then I would agree with you, but as it stands it looks like you're grasping at straws here.

It's not paranoia. I'm not afraid of the words. I just disagree with their usage. And people are entitled to their opinions on the words, however wrong they may be.

Except when you disagree with them, apparently xD

Isn't really relevant, but you'll also find the homosexual definition in most serious dictionaries.

I'd like to call your attention towards definition #4: http://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_gb0329310#m_en_gb0329310

Still want to claim I'm using passive-aggressive homophobic language?

No, it has nothing to do with denotation, and everything to do with connotation.

So you're saying that even though the definition explicitly states that its informal use is unrelated to homosexuality, it's still got connotations towards homosexuals?

That doesn't make much sense to me...

But I suppose you didn't understand DBT's post (which is why you chose to ignore it) and if that's true, then that'd be why you seem to think that your definition of the word and your understanding of the "real meaning" behind it is the universally accepted truth.

Just because society attached a new meaning to the word doesn't mean the new meaning is correct/right/etc.

Actually, yes it does.

When homosexuals began to refer to themselves as "gay" in the 1960s, it became the correct/right/etc. definition of the word.

I'm beginning to wonder if you even know how languages are formed and how they evolve...

Languages are formed and evolved by the way society use words / create new words.

Neither scenario is likely, because neither actually happened. Like... not even close.

Except for the fact that you're wrong, they started calling themselves gay.

 

[Exoskeleton]

In my opinion I think it should be ok to use the n***a but not the n***er,and you can bitch about it all you want but black people (african americans mainly) will never stop calling each other it.

Maybe the word just evolved....But people refrain from using it as it was originally offensive.

That's cool but to be completely honest black people around here who do use it aren't simple enough to give the "-a" version just one meaning. They use it to make jokes referencing to slave times saying "Oh he's walkin around like a dumb N***a." They also say it to each other to mean brother or something so it has many meanings to the point where I don't think it has one anymore. To be honest it's just slang and I think adding an a at the end was some attempt to update it for slang language. SO many black youth just think it sounds cool and it's a shame to see but a lot of them in college just want to be like rappers and crap. It's like they're pre-teen girls wanting to grow up to be like Barbie and so they mimic what they want to be like(Even the non talented ones. I swear if I have to hear another crappy singer recording a mix tape in this place...).

When you get to know most of these people and I mean really get to know them they seem like completely different people on the inside. Most of their use in the word and the mannerisms that go along with it are mostly just for show >.< which is kind of sad. A lot of black males are really nice once you've seen that side of them and could be very respectable people, it's just when they're surrounded by peers who also think it's cool to say this and that peer pressure is on the rise.

Another thing to take into account is the peer pressure. The black community is FILLED to the max with peer pressure. I mean all I overhear from their talks are about girls, sex, who's gay, that's it. There may be new topics introduced but there's basicall this thing with having to fit in and always talk about the same things and you have to be straight etc etc. There are those who can choose to follow the crowd and those who don't so there's a possibility the word is encouraged among a large group of friends.They aren't racist against each other but it is possible to be racist against your own race. Peer pressure is huge though...

 

[Ohri-Jin]

-a is not a slur imo.....its a slang black people use to call brothers that way etc
-er is a negative word white people used to say back in the day when black & white was a huge issue.,,separation etc...
some people still use that word, but if it comes from a white person combined with the sort of tone its highly offensive..

IMO black people have every right to use it, no matter how they phrase it........you cant erase the hardships and history this kind have endured....

Im not black myself and im a pacifist compared to my friends..however someone did call me a n gger once......dutch version...........I was raged and strangled his throath..I wanted to beat the shit out of him.....

Anyway he was white and he didnt deserve or had the rights to call me that.

There are still many racists out there.............this word is a symbol...some words will never disappear .black people claimed the word so it wont be controlled by white people.....

You rlly think if black people stop using the word it wont exist eventually...white people would own it.....

like 2pac once said......I call my brothers n ggaz not n ggrs.......

 

[Valvalis]

Personally I think it would be best for people to just avoid using such a word if there's a chance it can offend someone. There are polite terms for people of all the different races, creeds, orientations etc., and it's not like the polite terms are any harder to say. So if a reference is necessary, then there's no reason why people can't just use the polite terms.

Which, tbh, I can't think of very many occasions where referencing someone else's race/creed/orientation is even necessary anyway unless you're intending to insult them, or isolate them somehow because of it It's like if someone were to look at Elton John and say "Wow, look at how much that gay person has accomplished!" Why is his orientation relevant? Whereas saying "Wow, look at how much that person has accomplished!" would be much more appropriate, IMHO.

And I suppose if someone wants to say an offensive term in private then that's their own business; but if they teach it to their children, or say it in front of other people's children who'll pick it up and use it, then I do have something to say about that. Some of the older people in my family used to use racial slurs in front of me when I was a kid, and even though they were just joking with their friends and had best friends who belonged to those groups, I didn't learn how bad those types of words were until I started taking social studies in elementary school. So if I had been a more social butterfly and spoken to other students all the time, I could have easily said the word by accident and caused some serious trouble, without even knowing it. Or, if I hadn't learned why the slurs were bad, I could've ended up becoming a racist myself just based on the things my family said. Individual racism is bad enough, but making it hereditary is even more obscene.

 

[Big Casino]

I remember reading the paper and there was big uproar because the scottish comedian frankie boyle said the words '******' and 'paki' on his comedy show. Now anyone who actually seen it can plainly see that he didnt say it trying to be offensive. He was taking the piss out of people who were racist. Yet it was blown out of proportion and they tried to make him out to be this racist wanker. Seems to me, and this is just my thoughts on the matter but when a white person makes remarks about someone from another race its a much bigger deal than it is the other way around.

On the original question/topic. I wouldnt call a black person a ****** but at the same time it kinda makes me roll eyes when many refer to their fellow friends as *****s but oh if a white guy says it then its so wrong etc etc. Is just all bullshit to me. Then again, im nae black.

I spose it would be easier for me to make a comparison if there was a similar word for white people. Im sure there is but i dunno what it would be. The word to means next to nothing, honestly i really dont care.

 

[Dragon Mage]

I staunchly refused (and still do) to allow him to say it around me and I said that I personally found it to be offensive and racist regardless of the indicative nature of the user's intended meaning.

He argued that I was being ignorant because I was, "shouting" at him for a word that was used to stir up anger and discontent "over 400 years ago." I disagreed.

So I will begin by requesting that if you do wish to partake in this debate, that you please use valid evidence: internet sources, books, web articles, etc. Quote as necessary so I don't feel as if you're simply spouting pure opinions with no factual supportive evidence to back up your statements.

On to the questions: What do you think about the n-word(s) "n***er" and "n***a"? Do they truly differ in meaning to you or are they one and the same? Can and should everyone regardless of race use it towards a black person? Should anyone be able to use those words in general? Do you feel as if there should be some restriction put in place?

First off, good for you for not letting him use this word. It's an insult, plain and simple. Someone may say to their friends, 'You're all my bitches' but it's still an insult.

Internet sources will be hard to come by for this, however. The best things you can use are actually etymology resources -- the study of words and their origins.

Since etymology resources are seldom conclusive, I'll just report to you my total findings of piecing things together, and spare trying to explain my chain of reasoning. Let it be enough that I accumulated enough data from many widespread sources (but, I assure you, accurate ones -- no wikis or the like) and am giving you a basic summary.


So! First things first -- let it be known that the word "******" (No, I will not bahleet it out, it's a swear word and I feel no need to censor words like 'shit' or 'bitch' then '******' will be treated no differently. It's a swear word, it's a mean word, we're adults here, we can handle it) this word was actually quite acceptable. It's origins come from the country name 'Niger' which we pronounce today as "nie-jur". Back then, however it was pronounced in what we recognize today as the taboo swear, '******'.

Now, back then, they didn't have any politically-correct lingo. There was no 'black' there was no 'african-american' obviously. Someone that comes from Britain is a Brit, someone that comes from Germany is a Hun, or German. People of different types and races were called by their country name, which we still do today. Thus, the slaves taken from Niger were called '******s' -- it was literally like saying "American", or "French", or "Brit". "******" literally means "from Niger".

People from the U.S. may recognize this better. There are designations for people based on what state they come from. I am a "Michigander" -- from Michigan. A person from Texas is a "Texan". A person from California is a "Californian". And so on and so on; you get the idea.

So, '******' never started out as a derogatory term; it was honestly just a reference to the country designation these people came from. If they had come from, let's say, Kenya, and it had stuck all throughout history, no doubt the word "kenyan" would be just as bad an insult was we consider "******" to be today.

Continuing with the history of this word, it's necessary to look at the obvious and well-known results of what became associated with it. Since '******' literally means "from Niger" there is no actual insult inherent in the words' meaning itself. It is only the connotation that is an insult, as with all swear words. For example, 'bitch' literally means "female dog". Breeders use the word bitch all the time, but they aren't swearing. It's only an insult when calling a person a bitch that it becomes an insult -- for a bitch is a breeding term, and bitches are very protective of their young, turning on even their owners without any reason. Thus we get the swear word 'bitch' = a mean, hostile, person.

Just so with the word '******'. People from Niger were slaves -- uneducated, filthy from the trip, sick, not even believers of God! Terrible! Therefore, the word '******' became associated with the slaves, and I hardly need to describe to you how they were viewed and treated.

Through connotation only -- that is, the perceived and implied meaning of a word instead of the actual dictionary definition -- of '******' is what is an insult, not the actual word itself. Since it is also a horribly mangled pronunciation of 'Niger' the correct term for a person from Niger is "Nigerian". Oddly enough, the word 'Negro' was actually considered, back then, to be the proper form of 'from Niger', after "******" had been established as an insult and blacks were no longer slaves. Yet today, we still consider Negro as being little better than "******", when in reality the only thing the two words have in common is time period.

Today, this insult is -- like everything else --very archaic. "Damn" is literally a religious term. "Fuck" was actually first used in the Bible. (Quote, "They fucked the wives of Abel") But '******' alone has some very heavy taboo surrounding it, which I will take a moment to explain.

Considering the bitterness and shame and guilt surrounding slavery in today's society, one never brings up the subject of slavery unless it is to renounce it, and to do otherwise is to make yourself a racist. I don't think its necessary to describe the absolute loathing society holds for racism and those that abide by it. Thus, the word '******' has greater potency than any of the other swear words because it doesn't just make an insult -- it also carries the taboo of slavery and racism with it. You can say 'shit' and 'damn' all you like and most likely no one will bat an eye -- but if you start spouting '******' you're marking yourself and everyone associated with you as racists, who are generally considered to be lifeforms lower than whale shit.

That connotation alone, both centuries old and modern society's reaction to racism, is what makes the word '******' such an incomprehensibly filthy and tabooed word.





So, considering all this, I will answer your questions --

First, no swear words, regardless of their history or meaning, should be turned on anyone. A swear word exists to demean and insult, and should never be used. Of course, we all know what happens when we get incredibly pissed off -- all sense of caring about politeness and decency get shredded up, set on fire, and tossed out the window for good measure. Swear words will be used, regardless of politeness. So it only stands to reason that '******' -- along with every other swear word known to man -- will be used in moments of uncontrolled rage.

Therefore, anyone, regardless of race, are capable of using this word. The meaning does not change regardless of what color skin the person has when saying it. If a friend called me a bitch, I'd take it as an insult. If my black friend, Raven, called me a ******, I'd still take it as an insult. The use of '******' between black friends and being "okay with it" is merely a stupid perception and does nothing but damage reputation and other's perception of the person who used the word, even if it was toward a friend.

Being a part of the language, there is no reason why someone cannot use it, regardless of height, age, race, and so on. Would you censure 'touche' because it is French and only the French can use it? Of course not. Once a word is known, you can place no restrictions on it that can actually be enforced. It isn't a question if anyone should be able to use these words -- they already can and do use them. You can't stop it from happening. Only the social taboo and restrictions, enforced by individuals reacting accordingly when such words are used, can actually dissuade the use of these swears.

And further, I see no reason why a restriction should be placed on '******'. Doing that makes it special, which makes it forbidden, which makes it all the more potent a word to use when you really want to insult someone. There are no restrictions for 'shit', 'damn', 'fuck', or 'ass' or several others. Why should '******' be any different? One of my favorite books of all time, A Boy's Life by Robert McCammon is set in the 1950's. Back then, the use of the word '******' in the deep south was used to refer to all black people, and wasn't an insult -- it was just a designation. Though the more polite and well-bred used Negro, '******' was just as common and was only an insult when calling a white person that. It was an accurate depiction of the times and of the location -- and yet, some woman in California wanted to ban the book because it had that word in the entire 300+ pages only a handful of times.

There were plenty of other swears in the book -- why not ban it for those, as well? But no. Just for that one word, did this woman want to ban it.

An insult is an insult, regardless of it's history, and '******' should not get any special treatment. A lot of historical fiction novels set in that particular time period suffer from this drive to ban '******' entirely. In writing, it's a duty to stay as true to the actual thing as much as possible, and simply shoe-horning in 'Negro' when the word was obviously never even conceived of in certain time periods, just for the sake of being so politically correct it borders on paranoia -- well, it's ridiculous. Not only does special treatment of this one word prove a detriment to writing and study of history, but it also ensure that the seriousness of the word doesn't die.

We keep it potent by paying such special attention to it. We'd be much better off if we just ignored it, the same way we ignore 'shit' or 'damn'. Really, the NAACP did more damage than anything by formally "burying" the n-word. It just brought more attention to the word, and made it doubly forbidden and thus tempting to use. We should be regarding '******' for what it is -- a grossly archaic and petty word. We should be reacting to '******' the way we react to 'slattern' or 'scourge' or any number of other Shakespearean insults. Pandering to the political correctness of the word only ensures it will remain highly offensive, it's effects prolonged and exaggerated long before it should have passed into distant memory along with the other quaint oddities of the English language.

So, instead of pulling our hair out when hearing this word, we should just turn to the person that used it and say, "Really? I thought that word died out with the steam engines."




EDIT: Okay, seriously? Dammit people. This is EXACTLY what I mean. I just found that there is an automatic censor on the word n-i-g-g-e-r. But every last swear word in my post -- which is nothing more than a summary of the etymological origins of these words -- are perfectly intact. Dear God. This is the exact example of what I mean about special treatment of this word. It only makes it all the more special and does nothing to actually turn the word into little more than an outdated insult. It makes the uproar about it even more inflamed and benefits no one. I can't believe that such a perfect example would be provided by the forum itself.

The reaction described by Big Casino, what happened to that one comedian, is just a perfect example of how over-blowing the proportions of this one word causes damage and outrage where no insult was given. Censoring and paranoia doesn't make the situation better -- it only restricts any progress from being made.

 

[DarkShadow]

@Lil'Redskx I'm not in America but I'd say thats just cultural changes....Black people are influenced by Rap/HipHop it's obvious I myself am (but different rappers who aren't ignorant or illiterate). But the problem with Hip-Hop nowadays like you said they just talk about girls,sex,who's gay,drugs etc.....It's just the same with the youth nowadays,I can tell........they all wanna be some next-level rapper who wants to own everything.

As for the N-word white people using it can cause a bit of a rift...So I don't think they should use it,Black people (african american) generally have a different accent so they can say it differently.....It's just the voices between Black people and White people its different.
And like @Ohri-Jin said

like 2pac once said......I call my brothers n ggaz not n ggrs.......

Thats the real hip-hop.....

So its predominantly Hip-Hop figures such as Lil waynehmph),Soulja Boy hmph, etc etc thats caused all the the stupdity we see from the black youth using the N-word inappropiatly.

Such a shame......Hip-Hop was once a respectful genre til these little twats started turning up.

 

[CassinoChips]

I see you ignored Decado / DBT's post

No, actually. He posted his in between the time I clicked "Quote" and the time I clicked "Post Reply." So I never saw it, until just re-opening this thread about 15 minutes ago.

To summarise what it said; communities are free to re-define words on their own.

Since you summarized it here (even though you didn't really summarize what he said, because his argument was that words themselves cannot be racist/homophobic/whatever), I'll respond to it here, in combination with this.

It's a semantic argument. Fine, the word itself is not racist. But a person is racist for using it.

If in some other country, -er means "man" then surely that language in itself is not racist, is it?

How is that relevant? We're not talking about n---r or those six letters and their hypothetical meaning in some random language. It's an English word, and this is a discussion about its usage in English.

It was still "officially" abolished before then, surely?
Racism still exists, doesn't mean public transportation agencies can still have white and black separate seats.

1954 is the earliest you'll see legislation that overturned Plessy v. Ferguson. But it was still practiced "officially" well into the '70s in some place. That's why Dr. King was still going strong when he was assassinated in 1968. He still had something to fight.

See first paragraph / DBT's post

See first paragraph / DBT's post

Your logic is still flawed because of what I've been forced to re-iterate 3 times already in this post

5th time...

Are you saying that a private group of people (i.e. not a government agency or some other public forum) is not free to choose who can join based on whatever criteria they want?

Perhaps you're suggesting that the police should enforce a "colour and gender quota" on a persons circle of friends too - after all, if you don't have friends from #000000 to #FFFFFF then you're racist, apparently.

A sorority is not a public forum, every one of them have different "entrance exams" and it's not racist if it's an invitation-only group of people and they choose to reject someone.

Now if this was a workplace, then I would agree with you, but as it stands it looks like you're grasping at straws here.

You either missed the point, or ignored it completely.

You: It's impossible to be racist against your own race.

Me: Examples of black Americans discriminating against their own race because of skin color.

I'd like to call your attention towards definition #4: http://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_gb0329310#m_en_gb0329310

Still want to claim I'm using passive-aggressive homophobic language?

Again, I never brought the dictionary into the discussion. I really don't care what the dictionary definition(s) of the word(s) is(are). Because the dictionary only deals with denotation, not connotation.

And yes, it's still passive-aggresive gay-bashing.

So you're saying that even though the definition explicitly states that its informal use is unrelated to homosexuality, it's still got connotations towards homosexuals?

You're the one who questions whether I understand how language evolves, and you say this?

Can we agree that when something is called "gay" it's a negative connotation? I mean, it's not like if you found 20 bucks on the street, your buddy would say "You found 20 bucks? That's so gay!"

Culturally, homosexuality has been seen as inferior, immoral, and indecent for the majority of human history. It's really only been in the past 15 years or so that's is started to gain public acceptance. Basically, being gay was not accepted. It was bad. So now, whenever a teenage kid has something bad happen, it's gay. Bad is gay. Gay is bad. Gay means bad now because being gay has always been bad.

But I suppose you didn't understand DBT's post (which is why you chose to ignore it)

and if that's true, then that'd be why you seem to think that your definition of the word and your understanding of the "real meaning" behind it is the universally accepted truth.

Lol. Universal? Really? Please.

http://gayteens.about.com/od/safetytips/a/thatssogay.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS0GVOQPs0

http://www.homorazzi.com/article/thats-so-gay-phrase-politically-correct/

Except for the fact that you're wrong, they started calling themselves gay.

Which was one of many euphemisms for homosexuality at the time.

 

[Koloth]

The N word Nig -ger is slang. It isn't even a proper word. It is slang for Negro.

Comparing the word gay to the n word, is like comparing apples and oranges. Because the word gay existed before it got tagged relating to Homosexuals.

 

[Shu]

I'm sure there is a good reason this is in Temple of Ancients, though a lot of debating has been going on, so I think I'll enter the front.

I have read quite a bit of what ya'll already said, and I'll try not to reiterate someone else's point.. by trying to take the more opinionated route, since obviously this words lacks the history that the OP has asked for.

No offense but words are just words. When used in the wrong context, well then yes, I'll react, so this is my thesis, and I'll go into my points.

I went to school and live in the same county as the University of Mississippi where racism is still very much alive today, just in few "groups" per se. James Meridith being inducted into our school in the 60's was a huge step up for the racial movement, but I didn't see the real decline until honestly the 90's. (not just because I grew up in the 90's but from news etc).

The "N" word as ya'll call it, I never knew where it derived from but whenever a white person has used it among a black person, it is pretty degrating because of the context it uses.

Context meaning, the actual N word can mean multiple things to the person who uses it. 1) Hate 2) Disgust 3) Fear. It's supposed to mean "ignorant person" but tied to the normal turn Negro, which used to mean Black African American and now seems a little derogatory alone (negro I mean). Meaning you don't just hear people go sup Negro. It would be weird, that's like saying Sup Caucasian.

To me I'm a bit color blind to be honest, if I profile people as ignorant, it's not because of your skin, it's because your inability to respect to listen and take in other people's views. I have found more people in my own race that I disrespect than all other races combined, due to the sheer amounts of crap I've actually witnessed or experienced.

Getting back to the word though, the N word itself is derogatory because we choose to give the word power. I'm not sure how a black friend of mine sees it okay to call another black friend of mine, the very word, but I am guilty to calling people white trash, due to their lack of respect as well.

In a generation where we are forever changing, I have seen more good come out of this decade and the last, than bad as far as racism comes. It's an amazing thing when when you get to the very core of one's soul have very much alike we are. Due to the cultural differences though, we like to segregate ourselves in the small "special" groups, because unfortunately I think some of us think we can "understand" a same colored friend more.

The N word should probably never be used by any race, but it's us people that gives the word power. I will never say it's okay for anyone to use, but unfortunately as long as it is used in a negative light, the word will be more than a word.

 

[L]

you know, for a long time I've been acquainted with the user Nephry and spoken to her many times over the years on MSN (as well as a few others who found illustrations of the stereotypical black man hilarious). It's very embarrassing looking back, because I pretty much used the word ****** every other sentence.

I'd never seen a picture of her before and after some time noticed that she didn't seem to think it was really funny, or really think much of it at all. I don't know how she feels about it, I've never asked her how she feels about it.

It was really embarrassing for me on a personal level. Since then, I've pretty much dropped the term from my vocabulary. Never really made much sense to offend someone you hold in high regard.

Honestly, I'm probably not the farthest thing from a racist you could imagine - and I do have some prejudice against certain people of african descent that fit into a stereotype, but I'm not the guy who's going to interview you for a job and turn you down because you're a "retarded stank ass ***** that was raised on windex and paint chips and wears clothes that are 3 sizes too big".

but in the end, I really have a hard time taking racism seriously. I personally think that you should only use the word in a friendly (where it's acceptable) environment or just not at all.

 

[Mr. Gorilla]

People should be allowed to say whatever they please, but that doesn't mean that they should. If a white person used the word freely around people he doesn't know, then, well, he's being an ignorant ass. It's not like other words like "fuck" or "shit" that don't have troublesome historical contexts; there's a shit-ton of bad history lined up behind this particular term. The word, in short, is still a bigoted racial slur and it's going to remain that way as long as it exists in public memory.

With that said, if a white guy jokingly used the word with friends who are black or something, then I guess that's alright (I can't speak for black individuals, though, because I'm not black, but I do have several friends, black and white, who jokingly use the term among themselves without offense being stirred up).

 

[blakstang98]

It would appear this is more of a discussion/debate topic, more so than a life problems type thread. So I'm moving it.

*Thread Moved to The Sleeping Forest*

 

[Oliver Queen]

I believe that if someone has a problem with the word, then that word shouldn't be said. I have plenty of instances where I have heard the word used, and the people involved don't hear any shit about it. However, when I go to use it, I get bitched at for using it. Now I am not stupid enough to use it around/near people I don't know, but it's pretty bad when I hear shit from my friends about using it. Part of me thinks that it's due to the simple fact that I'm white, but part of me also thinks it's how I said it. The problem is that I don't know any other way of saying it other than just.....saying it.

Basically, if you get offended by someone using it, then it shouldn't be used. That's what I think.

 

[M1ghty Mous3]

When I'm with friends and i hear a crazy story, I'll say -a damn, thats crazy. You can take it how ever the hell you want, I'm going to -a, not -er. There is a difference. I do not use -a to be racist, i am not racist. I use it the same fashion as damn man. If i was to call people -ers, that'd be a different story.

If people are going to think less of me for saying -a with my friends, OBVIOUSLY not meaning it in a racist manner, then those people can go bite a donkeys ass.

Just because i use a modern term of the word, does not mean i am a bad person, nor should i be looked down upon.

Damn *****. Not everyone is racist.

 

[unadulteratedawesome]

A word is a word, it only has as much power as you grant it. Yes, the word has history, but every ethnic group's history is fraught with slurs and racism. I find it more offensive that some slurs are considered worse than others. What is gained from trying to compare misfortunes in ethnic history and granting some more weight than others?

The hatred is the issue. It doesn't matter an ounce what words they're using. Someone saying "Blacks are always thieves!" is no less or more racist than someone saying "******s are always thieves!"

Even when the slurs are used with the explicit intent to harm another person, I still think there's a distinction on whether the person is actually racist.

For instance, I was bullied in middle school for months by a group of six kids of the same ethnic background. They repeatedly used derogatory terms against my race as part of their abuse, but I ignored it. Finally, I got angry enough that I said what I thought would hurt their feelings the most - a racial slur. I did not use it because I thought their race was bad or inferior or anything like that, I used it because they were bullies and I wanted them to hurt, and that was the best way possible (not that it was a good thing to do). Likewise, I doubt those kids really hated me for my race. They were just stupid kids bullying people, it happens. Most of them grew beyond it. I became friends with a few in the group during high school, actually.

Besides, race is a social construction. The terms and ideas involved are equally stupid to and no more offensive than being labeled a geek or a jock or a prep or a nerd or any other stupid social label is. It's all asinine, people need to stop giving a fuck.

Edit: Heh, I didn't know ****** was censored by the board. I thought people were self-censoring this whole time.
Edit2: I originally listed a bunch of slurs to see if they were censored, and they weren't, so a mod deleted them (probably a good thing). Just seemed messed up to me that many of them (which are only slurs and have no other meaning) wouldn't be censored when the word of discussion is.

 

[CassinoChips]

The hatred is the issue. It doesn't matter an ounce what words they're using. Someone saying "Blacks are always thieves!" is no less or more racist than someone saying "******s are always thieves!"

It's a nice thought, but in the real world, there's clearly a difference. Living in a community and working at a place that is virtually a 50/50 split between black and white, if I said the former, it'd start a discussion. If I said the latter, I'd be fired. I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying. The concept is still there in both cases. But in practical application, there is a significant difference between the two words.

 

[unadulteratedawesome]

But in practical application, there is a significant difference between the two words.

Yeah, I definitely agree with that. Despite my dislike for how much power words like that are given, I know that in everyday life there's a huge distinction. I never really use those words, except in discussion, given the common view of them. And I don't really have a point to use them, either.

 

[Jquestionmark]

It's a nice thought, but in the real world, there's clearly a difference. Living in a community and working at a place that is virtually a 50/50 split between black and white, if I said the former, it'd start a discussion. If I said the latter, I'd be fired.

You wouldn't get canned for saying "Blacks are always thieves"? I want to work where you work, I could get away with anything.

On the actual topic, I feel that being insulted/offended by words is a terrible waste of time. With the exception of racial slurs, I've been called every bit of profanity worth talking about, and besides when I was 15 or younger, it takes a lot more than that to get under my skin.

Getting offended by words (and even the message they carry, be it an entire speech you don't like or a single offensive word) is a great way to show that you aren't able to process things with maturity. People just need to learn that other people will say things they don't like, and move on.

I'm aware that the real world isn't so simple, and most people can't hear the n-word without assuming racist intent, and that's a damn shame. It saddens me to live in a world where people are so threatened by words that they would sooner ban them than try to mature enough to handle them. Preventing people from saying the n-word will have zero effect on racial issues, and only serves to make it look like there really is some notable difference between blacks and whites (since such an enormous taboo has been constructed around it and furthering the taboo would only underscore racial tensions).