Why the Final Fantasy VII Obsession Needs to End...Now.

Nostalgia sure is good but for some reason i like very much old school design: I enjoy more playing RE with Tank Controls than the TPS perspective, i enjoy more playing Turn based gameplay than Action oriented gameplay. As example im playing Suikoden 1 on my PSX and im having a blast with its turn based gameplay contrary to lets say FFXIII action oriented gameplay.

For me FF4 fans are the worst kind, telling that this is superior just because of the plot while having a uninteresting Battle System and character skill progression and FF5 getting the worst of it.
 
Oh my, where to start here really, this is going to be quite the essay!

To begin I should say;

No, I am not a FFVII fanboy
Yes, I have played EVERY game in the FF series a number of times

So, shall we start at number

1. It diminishes the FFVII experience:

"Dealing correctly with the memories of what made it so good in the first place"

"The correct attitude to replay a game"

What a couple of statements they are! What exactly would you say is the correct attitude to replay a game or the correct way to deal with a great memory? We all think differently do we not? Each person replays a game for their own reasons not because "there's a way to approach" replaying a game.

"Any attempt to recreate the original experience will fail outright for the simple reason that something can only be original once".

If you really enjoy something you will recreate that experience again and again. You probably enjoy eating your favourite food or having sex dont you? Is that because they're an original experience each time or is it just because there is something you really enjoy about them? If you've not had either for a while are they that little bit better?

I would say it's not about recreating the original experience so much as just doing/playing something you enjoy/enjoyed. Why you enjoyed it in the first place is a whole other subject and one you can ONLY comment on personally. You say "try repeating FFVII and you'll end up finding the greatness of your first experience unattainable" but I preferred my second play through. The third I really knew what I was doing and was able to get everything so in short, each experience was great in it's own way. Now i'm replaying it after 8-10 years and it's great again due to the absence.

2. It creates an inability to appreaciate other FF games:

Again with the "but the attitude has to be right"

If you loved FFVII of course this is going to happen. Not because of an inability to appreciate other games. Simply because there are things you do or do not like about it and/or other titles. Thats the whole reason some people have favourite games in the series and not everyone has VII as that game.

"Progress" is only filled with dissatisfaction if something you liked changed or you are stubborn. In fact, the word "progress" is probably wrong to use here. Changes in a game cannot always be considered progress. I don't think anyone would argue that the progress in FMV's hasn't made them better. The subject matter may not be as good but you cannot argue with the fact they look better. That is due to a progression in technology. Making the world bigger due to the progress in memory/disk space/downloadable content is another example. I wouldn't consider changing materia for a skill tree "progress" for example, more a change in mechanics/workings.

You did mention the "cannot even reach the level it did on it's first playthrough" again but I think I covered this in point 1.

3. FFVII wasn't a perfect game either!

FFVII was by no means perfect in my eyes but again this is a matter of individual opinion, you can't force your view as a standard, plot holes or not. Some of the greatest timeless stories throughout history have glaring plot holes all over them. I didn't like the weakness of the majority of critters. As soon as you reach say 50+ with a decent setup you will pretty much 1 hit everything apart from bosses.

And what exactly is perfection? Again, there is no standard, what is perfect to you could well be garbage to me!

I also don't think that everyone loves the FF games just because of their story so your argument here is pretty much non-valid seeing as though it's the only thing you really comment on. Although I do agree the storyline of a game is an important added element to the package as a whole, a great game is made by a rather large combination of various elements.

I can go into how I think your, well Gunflame's interpretation of the game is totally inaccurate and how as with many great stories it should be taken as a large group of metaphors but this again is a matter of personal opinion/viewpoint and i've typed enough already lol. It's like saying the Minotaur was a real beast in history but there's loads of plot holes, no, it was a f*ing metaphor!

4. No Final Fantasy game is the standard:

Yes, agreement, well, sort of. Of course games can fail for their own reason.

Example: having a game with female only characters... It is any coincidence that it's one of the most hated FF's of all time? Is this because the story is rubbish or is it because the majority of the target market (males) didn't like something as simple as playing a female?

You say "end the obsession with the past", I say always remember the history, it's that which we gleam from it that makes the future!

Right, I suppose I better end this by saying a do sort of agree with Luke's statement in a way. People that love FFVII need to accept that it's confined to history. A remake just couldn't be the same and if it was then you may as well go back and play the original!

I would on the other hand love to see a new game with all the features of VII (and other FF's) mashed into a new story. Well not even much of a new story, they're all pretty much coming from the same good vs evil standpoint filled with ancient metaphors anyway.

I want: materia, chocobos, weapons, armour, accessories, items, game bosses, optional bosses, hardcore optional bosses, grinding, limit breaks, classical summons/aeons whatever you want to call them, lore, side games, 99999/9999 HP/MP, dual character summons/attacks... I suppose Blitzball would be taking this too far :D

I don't want: stupid skill trees, weak-ass bosses or linear content. I don't care if I walk about lost for hours, I want the option to be an idiot and not listen to where i'm supposed to go!
 
Vin Venture said:
This is sort of in response to @Mantis ' childhood memories.

:hmmm: Whilst I certainly agree the Golden Age of FF was VI to X, a part of me wonders whether it's possible for games to hold the same charm they did back when we were young! The games I remember being most excited about are the games I played between the ages of 8 and 12: Spyro the Dragon, Pokemon Crystal, The Emperor's New Groove and Zelda: Wind Waker. :lew: Back then, absolutely everything awed me! The colours, the worlds, exploring, fun stories, random NPCs, minigames, engaging in a world! It was the experience of gaming! This new thing that felt so incredible! People had been gaming for years, but to me, gaming felt like an entirely new, fantastic invention.
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Yes! This is exactly what I was getting at in the OP. :)
 
Omegadruid said:
You hear too much about FF7 because its the most popular but tbh to me it is a completely different story.
The game that gets annoying fanboysm is FF6 right now not 7. Both are great games but people really need to stop the piss contests between them. According to personal experience FF7 fanatics usually just say its the best game evah but they dont talk about the other the games, FF6 rabid fanboys usually come out as arrogant insolents with their superiority complex attitude.

Its not the obsession regarding one game that is hurting the newer final fantasies because by that logic the games up until 10 wouldnt have been successful. Its the attitude if the fans themselves that needs change. A little more humbleness, tolerance and respect. Do not blame a game that is outstanding just because the fanbase may be annoying. All in all I think that it is really a poor move to try to blame the overall fanbase disappointment with Square Enix on final fantasy 7..Its ridiculous if you ask me.
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Tolerance? I don't think fans should be expected to "tolerate" something.
 
Omegadruid said:
Well tolerance to other people's perspectives and opinions regarding the various games in the series not tolerance towards the games themselves. Perhaps you misunderstood?
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Yes i have. However what you ask is hard to enforce. Especially when so many opinions are loaded with potentially agressive arguments.

As for bambam your Bias towards ff7.
 
Omegadruid said:
Im bias toward every single game in the series I have played. This is a subjective matter whats your point?
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Wasnt referring to you. Im referring to Bambam being bias.

He thinks its unbias to say ff7 "obsession" is hurting us to be open to what ff has to offer BECAUSE he isnt an ff7 fan. When it has nothing to do with ff7 "obsession"
 
In my opinion, the obsession with VII will probably exist for the rest of SE's days and every new Final Fantasy game released will be compared to it by the majority of fans. Why?? Because, VII IS the standard many fans will adhere to in response to FF games. Accept it or not, VII is the game that made Square the company it is today. It had such an effect that it rightly should be held fairly high in standards. Even if you, your friends, your friends' friends' think VI is better than VII, the majority will still be VII.

VII is like the older sibling who seems to be "better" at everything, whom people flock to over you, or your other siblings. VII fans will say that- for example- that the Materia system is best, that VII had one of the best storylines, etc... As such, people are going to want more. They wanna see Cloud fight with his "Big Ass Sword" again and again.

It doesn't mean that VII is ACTUALLY better than the other games, it just seems to be to a broad number of people think it is. In my opinion, they are the majority of fans, and as anybody who knows about democracy knows: Majority rules. As such, Square is going to appease the majority by expanding the universe, and NOT bringing out a remake(which would ruin the feel of the original- my opinion, take it or leave it)

It's a disillusioning fact that MORE people just want to see MORE of VII over other titles in the type, so the universe was always going to expanded and focused on more than others. I personally find VII low on my list of games, but honestly, quite a lot of fans don't feel the same way.

As such, every game will be compared to VII due to the fact that they expect the same from Square. They WANT to see a Cloud character. They want a Sephiroth, and Masamune in all its over-compensating glory...
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But, XIII and its expanding series is different. In my opinion, I think Square want people to be able to look at the XIII's and judge them in their own light. They knew they messed up with XIII, they knew they improved- but didn't finish -with XIII-2, so I think they want people to enjoy LR:XIII as its own game: as something new and different in its entirety. Some say it's ruining the foundation of FF, I think SE are being open minded. Other's have probably mentioned the fact that "too much of one thing is bad"- too much of VII-styled idea's will ruin and generally destroy the unique taste of the game.

So, forcing crushing comparisons between VII(a legend) against XIII(The newcomer) is really not fair on Square, no matter how much they asked for it (FEM-Cloud in the shape of Lightning, A fucking train...etc). That's not to say that you shouldn't do it, I just think that XIII has quailities aswell.

At the end of the day, nothing is perfect- a hitch always appears- XIII is not the best game, but every creator has their mistakes. I do not think that XIII should be as cruxified as it is, nor do I think that Square Enix should be considered dead/self destructing/generally fucking terrible because they seem to focus on it- I think they just want to change opinions on XIII as a whole with the sequels.


-----------------------
I'm not a XIII fanboy in the slightest; I didn't get XIII-2, and I have quite a few complaints on XIII, but...

All in all, I feel that each game should be judged on its own merit. It's never going to happen of course, but I can dream.:monster:
 
I think Final Fantasy 7 deserves the high place it gets. Is it my favorite? No, but honestly, the characters were great, the story was great, the gameplay was great, and the world was well thought out. Its a top notch RPG. I tend to look at each Final Fantasy as it's own game though already so I dont directly compare how much I liked one to the other in particular. Sure, I like some more than the others, but I dont say "Well, FF7 was better overall, so this game doesnt live up to the Final Fantasy name". I judge any game on their individual merits.
 
Razberry Knight said:
Dont start with the "theres only 2" im in the gray. And i say the first game needs a complete remake to be consistent to the spin offs.

You question it but you have the answer right there.

For the record. Its not an obsession. Its just ppl who enjoy ff7 even up to now.
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I answered my own question?

If everyone liked it so much and wants a remake, then SE will be dead. It means they won't be coming out with newer games because their fans only liked the older games.

I'd say it is obsession. If fans really want remakes, why not the I - VI, those are the games that should be remade considering their graphics.

If this obsession continues, fans will only like the older titles, and newer titles will only be looked down upon because they don't live up to the nostalgia or commitment or however you call it.
 
Thing is I dont think there really is a FF7 obsession at all. Even if there is its a small fraction of the fans.

What sparked this whole debate was that teaser tech of FF7 on PS3 engine. If tht wasnt made to begin with this debate probably wouldn't exist at all.
 
foevanimeboi said:
I answered my own question?

If everyone liked it so much and wants a remake, then SE will be dead. It means they won't be coming out with newer games because their fans only liked the older games.

I'd say it is obsession. If fans really want remakes, why not the I - VI, those are the games that should be remade considering their graphics.

If this obsession continues, fans will only like the older titles, and newer titles will only be looked down upon because they don't live up to the nostalgia or commitment or however you call it.
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They want a remake because of the teaser both Crisis Core and the PS3 tech demo have brought.


FF1-6 were 16-32 bit games with their main features being gameplay. And even then, they have been remade just not up to the same graphics as the ps3. Theres a difference between ff1-6 and ff7-present.


you answered your own question as to why fans want it to be remade. And i'll show you.

here is how people who can't figure out why ff7 fans want a remake:

"I don't know why ff7 fans want a remake if they have had sequels, prequels and spin offs?"

And this is how certain fans feel about a remake:

"Because there have been sequels, prequels and spin offs with better graphics then the original, it would be great to see the original to have a consistent design with related games/sequels"

And, again, there is no ff7 obsession. Many fans like the older ff because they had MORE than what the current FF have, or at least always felt like it had a satisfactory ammount of features. So if the nostalgia factor is that, then yes. Other than that, you're just one of the few people who are trying to speak for others when its not even the case.
 
This is obvious to the open-mind. People just have a strong sense of self-entitlement and elitism. Not to mention, the thought of enjoying a classic FF, or liking it better than something like XIII (a game that is aesthetically pleasing - something many would prioritize), makes it seem like they're cultured, have taste, is old school, etc. Based on my personal experiences, I'd say that's pretty much what it's about.

And yes, I realize there are FFVII fans out there that are genuine and have reasons for disliking any later titles that have nothing or very little to do with VII. Don't worry, white-knighters. I'm not ignorant to this fact.
 
As someone whose first ever Final Fantasy game was Final Fantasy 7, I absolutely loved it, and I can see why it's so highly praised. The gameplay was fun, and to be honest, it's definitely a game I would want to go back and play again.

I can understand where you've coming from, however. Nearly every one of my Final Fantasy fanatic friends all talk about how no game will ever compare to Final Fantasy 7. While it's true that it WAS an amazing game, especially for its time, that doesn't mean that any other Final Fantasy is inferior to it.

I recently beat Final Fantasy 6 and I'm working on Final Fantasy 5, however, I think from what I've seen, they're just as fun as Final Fantasy 7, and I've grown to just say that if we can't appreciate the other Final Fantasies that aren't like FF7 or its spinoffs, then why bother being a part of the franchise?
 
Catnip said:
This is obvious to the open-mind. People just have a strong sense of self-entitlement and elitism. Not to mention, the thought of enjoying a classic FF, or liking it better than something like XIII (a game that is aesthetically pleasing - something many would prioritize), makes it seem like they're cultured, have taste, is old school, etc. Based on my personal experiences, I'd say that's pretty much what it's about.

And yes, I realize there are FFVII fans out there that are genuine and have reasons for disliking any later titles that have nothing or very little to do with VII. Don't worry, white-knighters. I'm not ignorant to this fact.
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You still make it sound like ff13 is something people didnt have an open mind but thats not the case. Many of us who are disapointed in this game is because it lacked a lot of what other previous final fantaasy games had. It didnt provide.

Many people have played it several times and can never finish and its not because its too hard. Quite the opposite. The game was such a breeze it was like a faint wind hittting you.


It lacked customization. It lacked free roam. It lacked diverse maps. It lacked any secondary games that let us take a rest from the maon gameplay. It lacked a distinct world that others can understand.

The only thing im not adding are characters and story where 50/50 of the fans tend to choose whether it was good or not. But even then it was incedibly long.

The final fantasy evolution stopped at 13 for a brief moment. It tried to bring it back in 13-2 but who will invest in a sequel of a game they didnt enjoy?
 
I leave for 48 hours and this turns up.

I am of the thought that Final Fantasy VII appealed to the Japanese anime fans graphically speaking. Did it have a solid core for a game? Absolutely, but it poisoned the water in character design in all future Final Fantasies, and that in turn Japanese culture.

Does that mean that I wouldn't pop it in from time to time? No. Because peeled back, there is a solid game under the trashy character design.
 
Sanji Himura said:
I leave for 48 hours and this turns up.

I am of the thought that Final Fantasy VII appealed to the Japanese anime fans graphically speaking. Did it have a solid core for a game? Absolutely, but it poisoned the water in character design in all future Final Fantasies, and that in turn Japanese culture.

Does that mean that I wouldn't pop it in from time to time? No. Because peeled back, there is a solid game under the trashy character design.
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It was the 90s. Plus first 3d cast. Its design really isnt that appalling. Nomura oater refined the art design but really it wasnt that bad. The only thing i will admit is aerith's one piece button pink dress was a bit much
 
It's appalling because they infused Japanese pop culture into the game. Final Fantasy VI was successful because Nomura defined men as men, and women as women. You can see it all over official artwork. VII-XII (with the exception of IX) was different because of the alternative lifestyle of Japan was ingrained in the game in both the game itself and the artwork. Am I saying that they are bad games? Absolutely not, but what I am saying that there was a perception among gamers during that era that the games were "too Japanese". [Ironically, that is the same argument that we are having today about Final Fantasy XIII.]

Eventually we got over it by the time the PS2 came along because in part, Nomura, when he did the character design for Final Fantasy X, actually did his character designs based on Fantasy, not on Japanese pop culture.
 
Sanji Himura said:
It's appalling because they infused Japanese pop culture into the game. Final Fantasy VI was successful because Nomura defined men as men, and women as women. You can see it all over official artwork. VII-XII (with the exception of IX) was different because of the alternative lifestyle of Japan was ingrained in the game in both the game itself and the artwork. Am I saying that they are bad games? Absolutely not, but what I am saying that there was a perception among gamers during that era that the games were "too Japanese". [Ironically, that is the same argument that we are having today about Final Fantasy XIII.]

Eventually we got over it by the time the PS2 came along because in part, Nomura, when he did the character design for Final Fantasy X, actually did his character designs based on Fantasy, not on Japanese pop culture.
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but XIII was on JRPG. but even then thats questionable as many JRPGers don't like it.

And, the design really wasn't that based on Japanese pop culture. So Cloud cross-dresses once. just once. it wasn't because he liked it, though many would like to think so just for a goood laugh. Either way, not that big of a deal.
 
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