Anyone who knows about this will probably know it was put on "hold" since he's reconsidering calling it off. Right or wrong to do it? Agree or disagree with it? etcetc.
No flaming or trolling.
We will burn hundreds of copies of the Koran...
- Thread starter Gingerbread Lesbian
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Anyone who knows about this will probably know it was put on "hold" since he's reconsidering calling it off. Right or wrong to do it? Agree or disagree with it? etcetc.
No flaming or trolling.
Personally, I don't mind if it goes ahead because they are free to do so. Unless it's illegal then there's nothing "wrong" with it and thankfully, offending someone isn't against the law. I mean, how many times do you see protests where the American flag is burnt? Kinda hypocritical now that Muslims are getting upset when they desecrate important symbols as well.
Even though I think it's OK that they go ahead with this (freedom of expression/speech etc), I still think they're a bunch of assholes, fueling more problems.
Even though I think it's OK that they go ahead with this (freedom of expression/speech etc), I still think they're a bunch of assholes, fueling more problems.
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I think its a bit pointless, really. What precisely does burning the Koran accomplish?
And, last I checked, not everyone who took the Koran as fact was involved in those attacks...NINE years ago now. NINE. I suppose if you want to be moral or whatever about it, its wrong, because its not exactly fair on those who practise the religion who weren't involved. For some bizarre reason, people take offense at that sort of thing; not really sparing them any thought isn't really fair.
I've always thought christening the day as "Nine-Eleven" has made it ridiculously melodramatic (not to mention the order is incorrect, but that is neither here nor there), but...well, burning the Koran NINE YEARS after the event in...what, precisely? Rememberance? I think the minute's silence or flowers on the graves or whatever would suffice. In spite/protest, then? Do they honestly think these groups are going to give a damn? And, if they DO take offense, what exactly is going to happen in retaliation? They're not really thinking this through, are they?
And, last I checked, not everyone who took the Koran as fact was involved in those attacks...NINE years ago now. NINE. I suppose if you want to be moral or whatever about it, its wrong, because its not exactly fair on those who practise the religion who weren't involved. For some bizarre reason, people take offense at that sort of thing; not really sparing them any thought isn't really fair.
I've always thought christening the day as "Nine-Eleven" has made it ridiculously melodramatic (not to mention the order is incorrect, but that is neither here nor there), but...well, burning the Koran NINE YEARS after the event in...what, precisely? Rememberance? I think the minute's silence or flowers on the graves or whatever would suffice. In spite/protest, then? Do they honestly think these groups are going to give a damn? And, if they DO take offense, what exactly is going to happen in retaliation? They're not really thinking this through, are they?
It's a moronic gesture but in fairness I suppose it's only a book. Of course, there's symbolism and such but without the faith all it resembles is paper with ink printed on it. A small minded insult and I would say whoever gets worked up over something that many people do on a daily basis are as small minded as those doing it.
Trismegistus
Still searching
Of course they're not thinking this through Martel. They're Christian extremists; since when do religious fundamentalists think straight? The guy who organized this, Terry Jones, honestly believes that he's waiting for God to do to the thinking for him. I can only laugh at people like that. If religious people can't tolerate what irreligious people think, then that's their problem.
Now, let make it clear that I'm agnostic; so I don't give a damn. No scripture is considered holy to me. But here are my two cents on the Qur'an-burning event.
Jones is obviously free to do what he wants. But it's stupid -- just like him and his fifty followers. He's only going to ignite more problems and propagate enmity because, believe it or not, there are non-violent Muslims out there who wish to co-exist peacefully with people of all faiths. How would Christians feel if someone burned the Bible on YouTube? They'll obviously get pissed. But since this is aimed at Muslims, it doesn't seem to bother people that much. After all, who gives a damn about Muslims?
And Ewan, if you're saying that Muslims getting upset about this are hypocritical, then why are people making a fuss about that prospective mosque near Ground Zero? I mean, it's not illegal for Muslims to build a mosque there -- in accordance with the 1st Amendment of the Constitution. And, last time I checked, offending others isn't against the law.
And about burning the American flag... I guess -- to name one example out of a s***load -- the U.S. invading Iraq and tearing down its entire infrastructure for a very gloomy reason isn't reason enough for Iraqis to get pissed. But who cares? As long as cars in the U.S. keep running, the people of Iraq should just man up and get over it.
And why the hell should any reasonable person find the mosque offensive?! For all the gods' sake! The people that were behind the attacks were a handful of extremist Muslims! Not all of Islam! I think that the emotionally sensitive should educate themselves a little more -- utilize their mental, rational faculties. My heart goes to the families of those killed in the attacks, but it's time to face reality now. If people think they can justify their hatred toward Islam because of what some Muslims did on 9/11, then I think I can hate Christians for all the bloodshed they've been responsible for throughout most of the Middle Ages. And don't tell me that that was a long time ago, because the very institution that was responsible for the atrocities is still standing in Vatican City. One simple example I can give is the Albingensian Crusade. It is because of the Church -- i.e. orthodox Christianity -- that the Albigensian Gnostic Christian faith (commonly known as Catharism) no longer exists. Of course, one mustn't neglect to also mention the countless lives lost during the witch-hunts. But would that really justify my stance if I really did hate all Christians? I don't think so. Because -- and excuse my language -- I'm a lot smarter than that.
The point here is this: not all Muslims are terrorists. So to all the haters out there, all I can say is... quit being pathetically stupid demagogues and educate yourself a tad.
Oh... and I'd like to add a P.S. to this post. Here's a little something for those who hate Islam because the Qur'an contains verses that encourage the killing of infidels.
How about we start burning the Old Testament now, huh? I mean, look at that barbaric language! ALIENATE THE BARBARIC JEWS, I SAY! ALIENATE THEM!
*falls into a drunken stupor*
Now, let make it clear that I'm agnostic; so I don't give a damn. No scripture is considered holy to me. But here are my two cents on the Qur'an-burning event.
Jones is obviously free to do what he wants. But it's stupid -- just like him and his fifty followers. He's only going to ignite more problems and propagate enmity because, believe it or not, there are non-violent Muslims out there who wish to co-exist peacefully with people of all faiths. How would Christians feel if someone burned the Bible on YouTube? They'll obviously get pissed. But since this is aimed at Muslims, it doesn't seem to bother people that much. After all, who gives a damn about Muslims?
And Ewan, if you're saying that Muslims getting upset about this are hypocritical, then why are people making a fuss about that prospective mosque near Ground Zero? I mean, it's not illegal for Muslims to build a mosque there -- in accordance with the 1st Amendment of the Constitution. And, last time I checked, offending others isn't against the law.
And about burning the American flag... I guess -- to name one example out of a s***load -- the U.S. invading Iraq and tearing down its entire infrastructure for a very gloomy reason isn't reason enough for Iraqis to get pissed. But who cares? As long as cars in the U.S. keep running, the people of Iraq should just man up and get over it.And why the hell should any reasonable person find the mosque offensive?! For all the gods' sake! The people that were behind the attacks were a handful of extremist Muslims! Not all of Islam! I think that the emotionally sensitive should educate themselves a little more -- utilize their mental, rational faculties. My heart goes to the families of those killed in the attacks, but it's time to face reality now. If people think they can justify their hatred toward Islam because of what some Muslims did on 9/11, then I think I can hate Christians for all the bloodshed they've been responsible for throughout most of the Middle Ages. And don't tell me that that was a long time ago, because the very institution that was responsible for the atrocities is still standing in Vatican City. One simple example I can give is the Albingensian Crusade. It is because of the Church -- i.e. orthodox Christianity
-- that the Albigensian Gnostic Christian faith (commonly known as Catharism) no longer exists. Of course, one mustn't neglect to also mention the countless lives lost during the witch-hunts. But would that really justify my stance if I really did hate all Christians? I don't think so. Because -- and excuse my language -- I'm a lot smarter than that.The point here is this: not all Muslims are terrorists. So to all the haters out there, all I can say is... quit being pathetically stupid demagogues and educate yourself a tad.
Oh... and I'd like to add a P.S. to this post. Here's a little something for those who hate Islam because the Qur'an contains verses that encourage the killing of infidels.
How about we start burning the Old Testament now, huh? I mean, look at that barbaric language! ALIENATE THE BARBARIC JEWS, I SAY! ALIENATE THEM!
*falls into a drunken stupor*
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Gah. 
Well that’s certainly one way to make a bad situation much worse. If this stays within this church then that isn’t so bad (though it is obviously a very, very, VERY stupid move to make). If, however, other people across the US decide to follow this too then that could be quite a problem, and much more serious in my opinion (there are certainly quite a few people in the US who share similar beliefs to this church). Freedom of expression, perhaps, but I think that this is a very bad idea which could potentially cause a huge kerfufle.
I don’t see the point in kicking the ants nest even more (the ants being extremists in general, Christian and Muslim). It needs to be known that the pastors of this church are only expressing a frightfully common misunderstanding that all Muslims are demons who want to kill everyone. In reality, those who carried out the attacks perished in the attacks, and their copies of the Koran are of no use to them anymore.
In my opinion the pastors should just be ignored by everyone, but I know that is unlikely to happen. There are always going to be people who take things quite far like this, to try and push it, but it is best not to give them too much attention. A severe reaction would only make these pastors think that they are in the right, and that would be really irritating to many people.
Well that’s certainly one way to make a bad situation much worse. If this stays within this church then that isn’t so bad (though it is obviously a very, very, VERY stupid move to make). If, however, other people across the US decide to follow this too then that could be quite a problem, and much more serious in my opinion (there are certainly quite a few people in the US who share similar beliefs to this church). Freedom of expression, perhaps, but I think that this is a very bad idea which could potentially cause a huge kerfufle.
I don’t see the point in kicking the ants nest even more (the ants being extremists in general, Christian and Muslim). It needs to be known that the pastors of this church are only expressing a frightfully common misunderstanding that all Muslims are demons who want to kill everyone. In reality, those who carried out the attacks perished in the attacks, and their copies of the Koran are of no use to them anymore.
In my opinion the pastors should just be ignored by everyone, but I know that is unlikely to happen. There are always going to be people who take things quite far like this, to try and push it, but it is best not to give them too much attention. A severe reaction would only make these pastors think that they are in the right, and that would be really irritating to many people.
In fairness I'd blame the media for creating such a storm. I know loads of people who deface religious material, but you don't go around telling those who would take offense unless you want to see something kick off.
I'd liken it to telling the world a meteor is about to hit us. There would be widespread anarchy. It's something a sensible person doesn't do and if it can be avoided ignorance is usually bliss. The media want to bait a reaction so they can sell a story.
Our knowledge is finite, which makes both logic and rationale subjective.
If people think they can justify their hatred toward Islam because of what some Muslims did on 9/11, then I think I can hate Christians for all the bloodshed they've been responsible for throughout most of the Middle Ages. And don't tell me that that was a long time ago, because the very institution that was responsible for the atrocities is still standing in Vatican City. One simple example I can give is the Albingensian Crusade. It is because of the Church -- i.e. orthodox Christianity
I'll be frank because I can see my comments will be met with the generic and rather ironic response of 'but there's violence in all religious texts so let's all stop being narrow minded', but I do welcome you to find a passage in the Bible that describes Catholicism and Christianity as synonymous as you've clearly just expressed in your post.
Ahh how ironic it is that you don't actually know that.
It's strange you should attack another religion in defense of Islam.
Here's an analogy for you:
"Your house is on fire."
"So is his."
"Right... but your house is still on fire."
bearsfwd
Delusory Dragoon
Personally, I don't give a rats ass what these dickwads do. They don't affect my daily life. Regardless, I think that they are utterly stupid to do this. They make Christianity as a whole look bad (although, that's not the only thing that makes Christianity look bad, but that's for a different topic). Apparently to them, a religion that supposedly supports violence (maybe they do, maybe they don't...I don't care. I'm not a fan of religion), means that everyone who practices it is evil. I feel bad for all the Muslims that are just trying to live life to the fullest and enjoy it, like the rest of us. Now, I may have met some Muslim people (I don't know, I don't go around asking what religion everyone I meet is), but no one I have met has been evil.
I think it's a little funny that I hadn't heard about this, because I know if I said I was going to burn 200 bibles in protest of the catholic priests touching children I would be all over the news and getting death threats.
And really what they are doing is no different than I what I said above. It's just foolish. Burning the Koran suggests that the entire Muslim faith orchestrated the attacks on 9/11 which they did not. It's childish. Why not burn effigies of the people who actually did the attack? That's not really healthy either but at least it would be pointing the finger in the right direction.
And really what they are doing is no different than I what I said above. It's just foolish. Burning the Koran suggests that the entire Muslim faith orchestrated the attacks on 9/11 which they did not. It's childish. Why not burn effigies of the people who actually did the attack? That's not really healthy either but at least it would be pointing the finger in the right direction.
You know what I don't get?
I don't get people who liken burning the Qu'ran to blaming all muslims for 9/11. Whilst I'm fully aware that it would seem that such an activity is being exercised in that very ideal, it's almost as if Islam can't be considered to be a violent ideology because numerous examples of what our society would describe as peaceful Muslims exist.
So what? I'm not suggesting burning the Qu'ran is justified or not and just in case there are those who would suggest I'm being biased against Islam I defended the animosity some Muslims felt over the depiction of Muhammed a while back. However, based on what I've been told (because I haven't read the Qu'ran you see) by several religious people - some Muslim - I don't believe Islam is a peaceful religion. I'm not throwing that out as fact by the way, only reference I've received.
I don't get people who liken burning the Qu'ran to blaming all muslims for 9/11. Whilst I'm fully aware that it would seem that such an activity is being exercised in that very ideal, it's almost as if Islam can't be considered to be a violent ideology because numerous examples of what our society would describe as peaceful Muslims exist.
So what? I'm not suggesting burning the Qu'ran is justified or not and just in case there are those who would suggest I'm being biased against Islam I defended the animosity some Muslims felt over the depiction of Muhammed a while back. However, based on what I've been told (because I haven't read the Qu'ran you see) by several religious people - some Muslim - I don't believe Islam is a peaceful religion. I'm not throwing that out as fact by the way, only reference I've received.
ShinkuHiro
（　・∀・）[&#
I had heard that discimination was pretty bad against Muslims over there, but I did not know it was that bad. Being a religous person, this is quite sad and just plain dumb in my opinion. What will burning the Qur'an solve other than promote religous violence and perhaps give terrorists more reason to hate America? People like that make many religions look bad and makes me pose the question if they really should call themselves pastors or religous leaders. And here I thought that most people would have the sense to realize that most religons don't support violence.
Neither is Christianity or any other religion for that matter. If you're going to disrespect any religion based on violence than you have to dislike them all. Just look at all the bloody conflicts that were just between different sects of Christianity. The whole concept of religion, especially monotheistic religions is that your God is the only god that deserves to live. Religious violence is nothing new.
And I still say if I was going to burn 200 bibles on my front lawn, I would be all over the news, and I hadn't heard about this at all. And when the person specifically does it on the anniversary of 9/11 then of course I consider it to be blaming the entire religion of Islam for the tragedies.
Like I said before, why not burn pictures or effigies of the terrorist who actually did it instead of taking potshots at another religion that is really not anymore violent then your own? That question is directed at the preacher, by the way, not you.
I don't think it's right. I think it's ignorant to burn a Muslim holy book in judgement of the radical minority. Yes, it's not the most diplomatic move to build a Mosque anywhere near Ground Zero, but people reacting like this are hardly the innocent parties, and won't do anything to pacify the radical Muslims. There is peaceful protest, and burning the Koran only feeds the fire. I don't think they're much better than the radical Muslims they hate.
I'm going to tell you that there are no such denominations described in the Bible, therefore such 'sects' only exist to those who would fabricate them; Mankind.
The only God that deserves to live? As if my aim as a Christian is to defeat other Gods. The whole concept? You're making no sense and you're out of your depth.
Fair enough. I've not seen a single passage on these forums which would suggest Christianity condones violence. Yes, there are passages which contain violence, but before you post the plethora you'll no doubt find on Google, take a second to read I think what the passage suggests in the full context of the scriptures rather than tearing it mercilessly out of context.
The only God that deserves to live? As if my aim as a Christian is to defeat other Gods. The whole concept? You're making no sense and you're out of your depth.
.
I didn't say you personally, I said the religion as a whole. And Christianity and other religions have proven throughout history that that's just what they intend to do. It may not be the purpose of religion but it is how mankind choose to use it. Communism is a theory is great as well, but humans just can't do it.
And you can claim the Bible doesn't say it, and I could claim it did, that just marks how foolish it is to base any argument on a book that relies more on your own interpretation of it.
But to put it back on topic, I believe that it's wrong to prosecute any minority on the actions of a few of its members.
And I'm no more out of my depth then anyone else is here, considering this isn't a religious forum but one based around a video game. I wasn't aware that I needed a degree in theology to discuss things.
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Well they do have the right to burn the Qu'ran, however, I do not agree with their actions. I think this will only result in more hate and intolerance. And I would not be happy if they were doing this with any religious text. (Bible, torah, any buddhist or hindu texts)
Think of it this way, if someone were to burn pictures of Martin Luthur King in protest or destroy stars of David in protest because of what a few morons belonging to those groups, you can bet there would be a huge outrage.
Think of it this way, if someone were to burn pictures of Martin Luthur King in protest or destroy stars of David in protest because of what a few morons belonging to those groups, you can bet there would be a huge outrage.
Rydrum2112
Methodologist
You can do what ever you want as long as you don't impinge on anyone else's freedoms, rights and property. That being said, extremists of the "peaceful" (read: NOT peaceful) religion of muslim will undoubtably riot, burn shit, as well as attack and harm non-muslims.
It is not like christianity is any better with all the violence it has advocated and suffering it causes. Could you imagine the uproar that would happen if some muslims burnt bibles??? or any other group burnt bibles.
Religions are bullshit and do nothing but foster outgroup bias and dogmatic (read: stupid) thinking.
It is not like christianity is any better with all the violence it has advocated and suffering it causes. Could you imagine the uproar that would happen if some muslims burnt bibles??? or any other group burnt bibles.
Religions are bullshit and do nothing but foster outgroup bias and dogmatic (read: stupid) thinking.
When I read on the news about this guy, I was cursing and swearing at him :\
I hail from Singapore, a multi-racial country. The idea of burning the Qu'ran has never ever crossed my mind, even though I harbor a little bit of animosity towards Muslims for the fact that terrorists are Islamist extremists. Yet, to see that someone here is so 'brave' to actually declare that he's going to burn another religion's religious book...
I find that downright stupid and atrocious. How many lives are going to be compromised at his expense?
The soldiers stationed in the Middle East are definitely going to be in danger! And I find that it is quite safe to think that I'm not exaggerating anything to think that. Churches. Wouldn't they be in trouble as well then?
We had the incident in Denmark where that artist drew a caricature of the Prophet Muhammad. Is this not enough to teach us a lesson about discretion?
Damn. I'm still quite pissed about this. He better not do what he says he wants to. It doesn't help that he only said he will 'postpone' it, or something along those lines. Irritating fool.
I hail from Singapore, a multi-racial country. The idea of burning the Qu'ran has never ever crossed my mind, even though I harbor a little bit of animosity towards Muslims for the fact that terrorists are Islamist extremists. Yet, to see that someone here is so 'brave' to actually declare that he's going to burn another religion's religious book...
I find that downright stupid and atrocious. How many lives are going to be compromised at his expense?
The soldiers stationed in the Middle East are definitely going to be in danger! And I find that it is quite safe to think that I'm not exaggerating anything to think that. Churches. Wouldn't they be in trouble as well then?
We had the incident in Denmark where that artist drew a caricature of the Prophet Muhammad. Is this not enough to teach us a lesson about discretion?
Damn. I'm still quite pissed about this. He better not do what he says he wants to. It doesn't help that he only said he will 'postpone' it, or something along those lines. Irritating fool.
While I agree with the concept of free speech and all, what I really don't like about them doing this is that it is being done purely out of malice. The point of honoring/remembering "holidays" or anniversaries of things like this is too often obscured by people doing things that have either none, or only a vague, relation to the actual event. Rather than burn Islamic texts simply because the idiots who caused 9/11 happened to be Muslim (believe me, there are extremists in every religion who detest capitalism and I know that was part of their motive), the actual logical way to honor the victims would be to practice religious and cultural tolerance today. Even if some people can only bring themselves to manage it *just for one day*, that would be the logical way to "celebrate" it, if you can call it that.
Islam worships the same God as Jews, Christians, and Catholics. Why does this fact slip through the cracks?_
What would any other religion do if they had their holy doctrines burned? Damn right Muslims would get violent, who wouldn't?
See, what's happening is people are playing with fire to get some false conception that they are more righteous.
It's been happening for centuries. I'm a firm believer in God, but Christians piss me off more than any other counter-part of His religion.
Islam has their radical extremist groups, just like Christians and their fucking KKK. Or Catholics and their St. Birgitta bullshit.
Sorry for the language, but Islam has also been robbed by America. The media will have you believe that we are there for 9/11. Ever thought that maybe it's backwards?
This is the advocate for the Al-queda, not that I care for those cowards, but don't mix them with the rest of Islam.
What would any other religion do if they had their holy doctrines burned? Damn right Muslims would get violent, who wouldn't?
See, what's happening is people are playing with fire to get some false conception that they are more righteous.
It's been happening for centuries. I'm a firm believer in God, but Christians piss me off more than any other counter-part of His religion.
Islam has their radical extremist groups, just like Christians and their fucking KKK. Or Catholics and their St. Birgitta bullshit.
Sorry for the language, but Islam has also been robbed by America. The media will have you believe that we are there for 9/11. Ever thought that maybe it's backwards?
This is the advocate for the Al-queda, not that I care for those cowards, but don't mix them with the rest of Islam.
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