Squalls Death

Zic3

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I recently finished played FFVIII, and one thought i saw someone mentioned bothered me a little throughout the game. Whenever squall is stabbed by Edea in the Parade, the theory is that he dies there, and the rest of the game is a dream since everything after that becomes all about him as the hero.
I am leaning more towards he dosen't die there, but i'd like to hear some insight.
 

Belazor et Britannia

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Seriously though, it's just a plot hole that they didn't cover up. Just a plot hole.

The ONLY "evidence" that theory has is that the flashback during the end credits are erratic.

Because Kingdom Hearts FMVs make total sense? Square has always released mindfuck FMVs.

I find it hilarious how the game's writing is so bad that fans feel the need to fix it themselves with ridiculous theories like that xD
 

Starships

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I find it hilarious how the game's writing is so bad that fans feel the need to fix it themselves with ridiculous theories like that xD

I find this really not to be true. FF8's writing wasn't horrible. It was creative and imaginative. And really, honestly just a theory, like how Sephiroth is Cloud's dad in FF VII. People, fans like to make them up, because it's fun and creative. FF8's story doesn't suck.
 

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I find this really not to be true. FF8's writing wasn't horrible. It was creative and imaginative. And really, honestly just a theory, like how Sephiroth is Cloud's dad in FF VII. People, fans like to make them up, because it's fun and creative. FF8's story doesn't suck.
Not to turn this into a debate about the quality of the story of FF8, but:

1. How they survived the ice missile is not explained.
Nuff said on that.


2. The entire party just happened to be from the same orphanage, and Edea / Cid were the matron / patron.
IMO this is an "oh shit, we really should add some back-story to these characters so that the entire game isn't just a bunch of random dudes and dudettes who have to save the world JUST CAUSE!".

Compare that level of back-story to the level of back-story of FF9, for instance. Or hell, even FF7, even FF7 pre-spinoffs and added lore (which in its own doesn't make sense, but that's an argument for another day in another thread).
 

Yaoi Master Gavin

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Actually, if you look at all magic in any FF game, it seems to do no visible damage. Thus Squall didn't actually get his heart pierced.

And presumably, if we accept what comes after as true (and we do) then we can also assume that the attack was just to make him black out, and Cure magic was used to heal him so he could be interrogated.
 

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Considering that Edea was a sorceress, and she wanted information out of Squall, I think it's fairly obvious that she'd have brought him back with 'life'. Don't think we necessarily needed that spoon-feeding to us did we?
 

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I'm not sure that they can bring people back to life. I think it's far more likely that she just wounded him. Also there's a considerable time gap between the end of disc one, when he gets skewered, and when he escapes from the Prison.
 

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Interesting theory. I have read a lot about it, but still don't believe it. R=U theory sounds more plausible to me.

Also, if you think that Squall was killed, then how do you explain the track that is playing while Edea strikes him. The track is called "Wounded". :)
 

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Not to turn this into a debate about the quality of the story of FF8, but:

1. How they survived the ice missile is not explained.
Nuff said on that.


2. The entire party just happened to be from the same orphanage, and Edea / Cid were the matron / patron.
IMO this is an "oh shit, we really should add some back-story to these characters so that the entire game isn't just a bunch of random dudes and dudettes who have to save the world JUST CAUSE!".

Compare that level of back-story to the level of back-story of FF9, for instance. Or hell, even FF7, even FF7 pre-spinoffs and added lore (which in its own doesn't make sense, but that's an argument for another day in another thread).

1. They got in that machine.

2. It was fate. You might as well ask the same question of any Final Fantasy actually. Just happenstance that Vivi ended up in Alexandria at the same time that Zidane and co. were kidnapping the princess? Tifa and Cloud from the same village? Cloud just so happening to be a failed experiment? Jenova being from another planet? WHAT PLANET? NEVER SAYS!
 

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I'm not sure that they can bring people back to life. I think it's far more likely that she just wounded him. Also there's a considerable time gap between the end of disc one, when he gets skewered, and when he escapes from the Prison.

I think that's more plausible as well but I can't see why she wouldn't be able to cast 'life' - any of the playable characters can bring people back from the dead with 'life' and I'd imagine that Edea's far more powerful than any of them at that point of the story.
 

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Well interesting theory, but no I think he lives, how do you dream when you die? Besides that I think if Square wanted him dead/wanted us to know he was dead they would of done something like
what they did in Final Fantasy X with Tidus being a dream.
Just my thoughts, and if it was a dream would Squall really be changing so much in personality?
 

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Tbh, 'life' is more a case of bringing people out of unconciousness, only in 9 is it ever shown to have ressurection properties (Beatrix using Full-Life on Garnet)

As for Squall getting skewered, you could compare that magic damage to when Seifer used Fire on Squall in the opening FMV, there's no visible burns, his clothes don't get set on fire and later the Doctor even says 'just a scar' no burn injuries etc. The same logic could apply here, especially since there was no scar and I think an injury of that size WOULD leave a scar :wacky:
 

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I don't really think you can consider Squall to have been killed in that fight. I mean if he'd really been pierced through the heart, he probably would have died immediately, and it's not like cure magic isn't readily available.

You could argue that it could have been gameplay and story segregation, and that a massive spear of ice would fuck someone over worse in a cutscene than in a battle, but I really think that whole FMV was done to A. Subdue Squall, and B. Shock people playing into thinking another hero had been killed at the end of an FF Disc 1. It was a cliffhanger, and since we don't see Squall for a while with the Laguna flashback and Zell/Quistis/Rinoa/Selphie scenes, I think it was just done for dramatic tension.
 

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Tbh, 'life' is more a case of bringing people out of unconciousness, only in 9 is it ever shown to have ressurection properties (Beatrix using Full-Life on Garnet)

That's probably true actually. It always bugged the bejesus out of me why no one tried to use a phoenix down on Aerith in VII!
 

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I think that's more plausible as well but I can't see why she wouldn't be able to cast 'life' - any of the playable characters can bring people back from the dead with 'life' and I'd imagine that Edea's far more powerful than any of them at that point of the story.
Life magic only works in battles, because battles are outside the normal scope.

Take CC for instance, the Buster Sword is never supposed to be used, but in combat it is.
How? Because combat and actual story is different.

1. They got in that machine.

2. It was fate. You might as well ask the same question of any Final Fantasy actually. Just happenstance that Vivi ended up in Alexandria at the same time that Zidane and co. were kidnapping the princess? Tifa and Cloud from the same village? Cloud just so happening to be a failed experiment? Jenova being from another planet? WHAT PLANET? NEVER SAYS!
1. What machine?

2. So you are comparing Vivi (one person) going to see an event that pretty much EVERYBODY EVER is going to see, or Tifa (one person) being the childhood friend of the hero, with what, EIGHT people?

If you have even a basic grasp of probability maths, you can see where I'm going with this.
 

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What I'm failing to see is why the fact that all of them were together at an orphanage matters? It's just a game. Yeah, that was a little corny, them coming back together, but so what? There's been plenty of corny shit in FF; VIII is no exception. Why people feel the need to bring real life statistics into a FANTASY game is beyond me... If Squall had died, Squaresoft would have made it obvious when he was stabbed. Besides, it didn't hit him in the heart; it hit him on the right side of his body (just watched the cutscene). While that would have ripped a hole into his lungs, I'm sure as powerful a sorceress as Edea was that she could patch him up again.
 

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It's true I thought "he get's killed?! :gasp: " at the end of Disc 1, but when you see him waking up in Disc 2, I thought it was obvious that he never died then.

The only fickle thing was the "no wound" bit. That I never really understand (and as such I'm constructing a fanfic around that, but details~)
 

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Please, guys, don't try to use logic in a Final Fantasy game - it's just not plausible.

You can't try to argue any sort of 'realism' in games where it's perfectly fine to just waltz into people's homes and steal their hard-earned money and treasures, where characters only wear one or two outfits for months on end, where a character's giant 4 foot+ weapon just magically vanishes whenever they're walking around town, when they become King Kong-sized and tower over forests while they're walking around the world, where the world only has a handful of towns that people live in, where you can 'draw' 'magic' from monsters by holding your hand out and suddenly suck some mythical knowledge out of speechless creatures, where giant mythical beasts will appear out of no where and cause real, physical damage, and let's not forget...

When people cheer for a politician with THIS speech:

"...Lowlifes. ...Shameless filthy wretches. How you celebrate my ascension with such joy. Hailing the very one whom you have condemned for generations. Have you no shame? What happened to the evil, ruthless sorceress from your fantasies? The cold-blooded tyrant that slaughtered countless men and destroyed many nations. Where is she now? She stands before your very eyes to become your new ruler. HAHAHAHAHA.""

What, was Dr. Evil on vacation?

It's a video game, and that's all there is to it. If a video game was done in a perfectly realistic fashion, it would be utterly boring. I'm content to let fans have their theories, because often times it does take an existing plot and making it even more interesting. Personally, I would have enjoyed FFVIII a hell of a lot more if the whole 'Rinoa is Ultimecia' theory was correct, and I'd even enjoy it more if Squall actually did die and the game afterward was all in a very emotionally distressed Rinoa's mind.

But, Nikki Grahame hit the nail on the head with this:
It was a cliffhanger, and since we don't see Squall for a while with the Laguna flashback and Zell/Quistis/Rinoa/Selphie scenes, I think it was just done for dramatic tension.

That's all there is to it.

And pardon the tl;dr. D=
 

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1. How they survived the ice missile is not explained.
Nuff said on that.
Well, Edea is very powerful and the shot hit his shoulder, not his heart. They took him back to that desert tower and healed him there. Hence why he wakes up there.

Couldn't she stop time as well?

2. The entire party just happened to be from the same orphanage, and Edea / Cid were the matron / patron.
First, it was their destiny, second Rinoa wasn't from the Orphanage :eek:

I always thought it was just suppose to be a cliffhanger until you see Squall again. I don't think he died and I don't think he could have died either... >.<
 

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I recently finished played FFVIII, and one thought i saw someone mentioned bothered me a little throughout the game. Whenever squall is stabbed by Edea in the Parade, the theory is that he dies there, and the rest of the game is a dream since everything after that becomes all about him as the hero.
I am leaning more towards he dosen't die there, but i'd like to hear some insight.

Whoever said this probably came to this conclusion while playing the game on a 4 inch screen. As a few have already pointed out in this thread, Squall was impaled just below the right shoulder, not in any vital areas of the chest. I'm sure it would hurt like hell, but it isn't life-threatening. …And Squall didn’t die. :P

The ONLY "evidence" that theory has is that the flashback during the end credits are erratic.

I find it hilarious how the game's writing is so bad that fans feel the need to fix it themselves with ridiculous theories like that xD


I have to disagree, the games writing, albeit lacking in some areas is far from bad, in my opinion.

Actually, I think the ending FMV to FFVIII is the most misinterpreted, and misunderstood of all the series. The ending events are far from erratic, and these aren’t just “flashbacks” we’re watching. What we are seeing (though Squall’s eyes), are events in time that have occurred—events that occurred in Squall’s time and reality, as well as alternate events in alternate timelines and realities. We can see this as most of the sequences involving chance or fate either occurred, or they never occurred.

A good example of this are the events where Squall first meets Rinoa during the ball (where she turns her head, notices him, and then walks toward him), in the ending FMV we see all of the alternate events as Squall moves through them (while he is moving back to his own time and reality), Rinoa is either standing there, or she isn’t—a chance encounter that happened in Squall’s own time and reality and not in others.

Another good example is the space rescue scene where Rinoa drifting away in space. In Squall’s timeline and reality he rescues Rinoa, in another timeline and reality Squall fails to save Rinoa and she actually “does” die in space, thus the FMV showing an alternate outcome of events where the glass on her helmet shatters exposing her to the vacuum of space.

In fact, most of VIII’s story centers around time travel and time-event manipulation which ends in a Predestination Paradox/Causality Loop created by Squall himself. Now, this literary device may not be something new to Square-Enix games, it is, in my opinion, well executed in Final Fantasy VIII. And, it’s the reason I hold this installments story high above the others in the series.

Now, before someone jumps in and says… “Just because I didn’t like the game doesn’t mean I didn’t understand it!” I believe you! If you didn’t like the game, you didn’t like the game.
 
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