Square-Enix talks of XIII struggles [10/17]

[Demon]

I can't be certain that this article contains anything new, but it seems newsworthy:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...Scenes_of_Square_Enixs_Final_Fantasy_XIII.php

I'm interested in knowing more, but I probably won't buy a copy of the magazine over it.

 

[王 Yoshida]

i still don't understand why people are so obsessed with an open environment, Spacing and distance aren't really that important factor in game like FFXIII or FF series for matter because combat are either a turn-based or Active time battle.

 

[Gingerbread Lesbian]

This lack of a shared vision became the root of many conflicts that arose later in development.

Nice to know the game was being developed on an as-you-go basis, not really the way you want to treat you main IP.

Another issue was the universal engine. Because we were so focused on creating an engine for next-gen hardware that could be utilized across all platforms, we made the mistake of trying to accommodate every single project that was in progress at the time.

This sounds like some BS excuse to me. There was very little wrong with the game from the technical side, the crystal tools engine isn't at fault for the linearity, generic storyline etc

Linearity and command-based battles were two of the features being perceived negatively.

Nice one. They test the game with some international players, find out it's not what we want and put it in anyway.

Unfortunately, we were already quite far along in development, and knew it would be too late to implement most of the feedback from the player test sessions.

This is why market research and development research is done BEFORE and THROUGHOUT the development, NOT towards the end.

With the changes that were being considered, because of the lack of a clear communication line, the development team was not receiving clear instructions. This resulted in conflicts within the team on whether it was worth forcing certain changes into an already tight schedule

This will be my quote every time I point out how shit Square-Enix have become.

Even at a late stage of development, we did not agree on key elements of the game, which stemmed from the lack of a cohesive vision, the lack of finalized specs, and the remaining problems with communication between departments

Again, development should be discussed before and throughout the development, not when it's "too late".

 

[Hatifnatten]

"western audience" can have in the ass, I want my Final Fantasies Japanese and awesome.
If you don't understand "command input" or "linearity" get the fuck out of my franchise and go play some american tasteless garbage.

 

[bearsfwd]

"western audience" can have in the ass, I want my Final Fantasies Japanese and awesome.
If you don't understand "command input" or "linearity" get the fuck out of my franchise and go play some american tasteless garbage.

I don't know that it has so much to do with us not wanting things or not understanding things. It's mostly what SqEnix THINKS we want. I love all the early FFs, and I DO like XIII. SqEnix must think we (the western audience) are really dumb or something. Some game companies should just learn to realize that some franchises should really stay true to their roots.

However, in the end it sounds like most of this is on their own internal development problems, not us westerners. Yes, I know that they try to cater to the complaints about the game, but if they choose to take them to heart and start pulling Final Fantasy away from what made it a great franchise, that's SqEnix's fault, not ours. We only express our opinions, they are the ones that have to choose to listen to them or ignore them.

However, I, unlike the other buffoons here in the west that grew up playing Grand Theft Auto and Halo, am able to approach each game I play differently than every other game I've played. It seems like those GTA/Halo groupies want every game they play to be just like GTA/Halo. I will cry if I ever see a FF where your characters jack cars, shoot aliens with laser guns, all while trying to be a guitar hero (I was trying to get a World of Warcraft reference in there, but with having never played WoW or FFXI or FFXIV...I'm not sure what similarities or differences there are).

 

[Ironwill10]

talk about XIII is it bad or somthing just wondering
o well it doesnt matter
because ive never play it
wait i have is this 13 or 14 whatever

 

[Sultan]

i still don't understand why people are so obsessed with an open environment, Spacing and distance aren't really that important factor in game like FFXIII or FF series for matter because combat are either a turn-based or Active time battle.

The Final Fantasy games have fantastical settings. It's part of the experience for a player to wander around feeling immersed into this new world with the illusion of exploration. And XII was real-time, you get near a T-rex ad you're not ready, you get pwn'd one hit.

 

[Exoskeleton]

"western audience" can have in the ass, I want my Final Fantasies Japanese and awesome.
If you don't understand "command input" or "linearity" get the fuck out of my franchise and go play some american tasteless garbage.

Um everyone, the "Western Audience" refers to countries such as Australia, and Europe. Not just America, just pointing that out because of implied sentence.

But yea I liked some of FF13, it's just that like what Merc said, developement should be discussed before and throughout. Not just at the end. I'm thinking this is probably where they went wrong. The game wasn't perfect but it wasn't the quality FF that I look forward to either...

 

[Ohri-Jin]

The Final Fantasy games have fantastical settings. It's part of the experience for a player to wander around feeling immersed into this new world with the illusion of exploration. And XII was real-time, you get near a T-rex ad you're not ready, you get pwn'd one hit.

Thats what I loved from FF12, the floating city I could watch for hours and not even playing the actual game

and that damn T-rex was awesome. I made sure I didnt get too close to that beast

 

[Linnaete]

Ah. This was the article I referenced in one of the threads. I've pretty much said all I wanted to say about SE and FFXIII elsewhere, so I won't go into it here. Plus Ryan has nicely abridged my thoughts in neat multiquoting. All I want to say is that they couldn't afford to be so indecisive and divided when making FFXIII, a flagship FF game at all. Look at the results now.

"western audience" can have in the ass, I want my Final Fantasies Japanese and awesome.
If you don't understand "command input" or "linearity" get the fuck out of my franchise and go play some american tasteless garbage.

But they can't stay entirely Japanese in style. The Japanese gaming market has been deteriorating. While I don't advocate for a giant westernisation phase whatsoever, Square Enix still have to bear in mind its international audience - which is where their games get most of their revenue from, and do some adaptations and evolutions, otherwise the franchise becomes incredibly stale. And I question what you mean by "american tasteless garbage". Though western developers do churn out a lot of generic FPSs and such, there have been some great, innovative, imaginative titles. And you are also overlooking the fact that the western gaming industry has grown at the expense of the Japanese industry near-imploding.

 

[Gingerbread Lesbian]

"western audience" can have in the ass, I want my Final Fantasies Japanese and awesome.
If you don't understand "command input" or "linearity" get the fuck out of my franchise and go play some american tasteless garbage.

Linearity has absolutely NOTHING to do with the west, you'll find that western titles are nearly always far more open games, especially when it comes to RPGs.

In regards to westernisation, I think FPS titles have become a bit of an unfair target. Take Call of Duty Modern Warfare and Modern Warfare 2, sure there are some people who genuinely don't like FPS titles but there are a lot a people who hate it just because it's successful. It was still revolutionary for the genre.

There are some shit FPS games, definitely, but we recognise it, much like Japan recognised FFXIII was shit.

Plus you have to look at that FPS titles are split into multiplatform AND exclusives for each console this generation. Each console [more so the PS3 and 360] has its FPS IPs as well as the multiplatform titles.

Either way, no one can argue about the success of the FPS genre this generation.

 

[Gabe]

in-depth postmortem of Square-Enix's Final Fantasy XIII, written by Motomu Toriyama and Akihiko Maeda.

Excuse me? Did you just insult Final Fantasy XIII? Wouldn't that mean Final Fantasy XIII died, or is it being used in a different context? =_=

Umm... Okay, well they discussed how the demo was a learning experience. Well... Maybe they'll actually RELEASE a public demo on the PSN or something, and ask for feedback with Versus or something. That would be an excellent idea.

 

[Demon]

Excuse me? Did you just insult Final Fantasy XIII? Wouldn't that mean Final Fantasy XIII died, or is it being used in a different context? =_=

It's being used in a different context.

The site often speaks of "postmortems" where developers discuss aspects of the game, so the term isn't anything used specially for this game.

 

[Linnaete]

I guess by "postmortem" that they were referring to the end of the development period of FFXIII (as it's out and the team is done with it), otherwise it isn't really the best use of words here. Although there are many people who see FFXIII as being another nail in the coffin for Final Fantasy anyway.

 

[王 Yoshida]

Final Fantasy XIII Developers Couldn't Cater To Western Tastes

While we'd be hesitant to use the word "failure" in relation to Final Fantasy XIII, "disappointment" works just fine. If only Square had known people outside Japan wouldn't like the game before they released it! Oh, wait. They did.

The latest issue of Game Developer magazine has a fascinating insight into the development of Square Enix's latest role-playing epic, which despite costing millions and taking years to develop, wound up letting many fans down thanks to its linearity and regressive game design.

While there's talk of engine troubles and the lack of a creative vision for the game, most interesting is the developer's revelation that a decision to test the game in non-Japanese markets was only made at the 11th hour.

"Even before the current generation of consoles was introduced, it was obvious that the game market in the West was gaining momentum, and we couldn't ignore it", write developers Motomu Toriyama and Akihiko Maeda. "The sentiment that stood out the most to us at the time was the increasingly harsh criticism towards JRPGs."

"Linearity and command-based battles were two of the features being perceived negatively. This was something that the team was very conscious about, and there were concerns about whether JRPGs would still be accepted in the West. Because Final Fantasy XIII's mission was to succeed worldwide, we could not ignore this issue, as we felt it could deeply affect the future of the franchise."

So focus testing sessions were held in Western markets. And they achieved...well, nothing.

"Unfortunately, we were already quite far along in development, and knew it would be too late to implement most of the feedback from the player test sessions. Even so, we still signed up for the opportunity, as this would be our only chance before the game's release to see how Western players would respond to all that we had been working on."

"There were some minor hiccups, as we did not have much time to prepare for the focus group sessions, but we were able to successfully conduct player tests and interviews globally. Even though it was too late to apply the majority of the feedback, most team members felt the tests were worthwhile, as it gave them insight into what players wanted globally."

Despite feedback from Western gamers coming too late to make fundamental changes to the game, it still caused problems back at Square Enix, as the new information "resulted in conflicts within the team on whether it was worth forcing certain changes into an already tight schedule".

What. A. Hot. Mess. And Square have nobody to blame but themselves. Even the most basic form of focus testing would have involved looking at how well-received Final Fantasy XII had been with Western media and consumers. How did they think scrapping the radical changes made to that title and reverting to a more traditional style of Japanese role-playing game would go down?

 

[Gingerbread Lesbian]

Threads Merged

 

[Steve-O]

AHHHH square enix has worked out that they failed with ffxiii =O

well done you get a star

 

[Martel]

Square Enix couldn't cater to Western tastes with FFXIII? NO! Really? Well, how about that! I would never have guessed!

I have no problem using the word "failure" when it comes to FFXIII and Square Enix in general recently, because "disappointment" is a gross understatement. In fact, its being far too kind to just call their recent performance a "failure", really.

A good reputation is something that you need to earn, and once you have earned it, this is not an excuse to slack off with your next release. Sure, Square Enix have such a good reputation that it'll be quite a while and several bad games later that they lose it entirely, but if the FFXIII and FFXIV fallout is anything to go by, they need to get their acts together fast.

 

[L]

"western audience" can have in the ass, I want my Final Fantasies Japanese and awesome.
If you don't understand "command input" or "linearity" get the fuck out of my franchise and go play some american tasteless garbage.

Japan isn't that great.

their porn is horrible.

guy hits a chick with a truck, dumps her off somewhere. somewhere along the line of that course of action, he decides it's a good idea to fuck her.

guy gets a pink stopwatch that stops time, he cuts up his employee's clothing, chops some of her bush and eats it, puts them all on leashes.

but america

we will always be the kings of pornography

don't hate playa