Noctis-Tragic Hero?

Rapture

Rapture

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I thought this would be an interesting topic to post about ^_^ ...So with all of the Shakespearean references in this game like "There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so..." and etc... I've heard that some people are calling Noctis a tragic hero. Shakespeare had quite a few tragic heros that he wrote about: Macbeth, Othello, Hamlet, and Romeo to name a few.

If you think of what a "tragic hero" really is we see this person is/has these qualities:

Usually of noble birth
# Hamartia - a.k.a. the tragic flaw that eventually leads to his downfall.
# Peripeteia - a reversal of fortune brought about by the hero's tragic flaw
# His actions result in an increase of self- awareness and self-knowledge
# The audience must feel pity and fear for this character.

Source:
http://shakespeare.nuvvo.com/lesson/4435-elements-of-a-tragic-hero-in-literature

So if he really is going to be a tragic hero...what do you think his flaw/s downfall is going to be?

I see pride as an obvious one...in the new trailer we see he is so sure of his new powers he has his friend (Ignis I believe) telling him "He isn't that strong....yet."

...and possibly love being another. I see him falling for Stella and her possibly betraying him...

Thoughts?
 
I would love it if he was a tragic hero! It would bring him so much personality and character growth! We are really due for an awesome hero after the crappy ones we got from XII and XIII

I think you're right about his downfalls possibly being Pride. From what I have seen in the trailers and previews he seems so sure of himself, he is a prince (or king? Cant remember) they are always full of pride, I am sure he will learn some lessons through the game.

I can also see love playing a big role in his story but unfortunately we haven't really seen too much romance from the trailers yet, but I can tell it is there.
 
I'm surprised you didn't mention Oedipus in there, he's actually one of the main guys I think of when the term "tragic hero" comes to mind. Well, besides Hamlet who whines (in my opinion anyway) like a pansy throughout half of the eponymous play. Ugh. So not my favorite "tragic" hero but that's mostly because he brings about his own downfall and had a tendency to manipulate the people closest to him (hence his downfall, see, he did it by being stupid and whiny), whiny ass--. I digress . . .

While it would be nice for me to sit here and insinuate about Noctis's personality I'm going to be sincere and say that I don't know if he'll turn out to be "tragic." I don't know if he'll be too arrogant or if his trust in Stella would bring about his downfall or demise or what have you. It would be really great if he had an Oedipal type of downfall (minus the whole weird, "I love my mom but that's okay 'cause I didn't know she was my mom 'till Tiresias let me "see" my ways"), by that I mean his unavoidable actions inadvertently bring about the downfall of his kingdom and ultimately himself.

I'll even go so far as to say, I hope that he doesn't really "win" in a sense plot-wise but that's probably because I'd like for the writers and developers to extend the dark theme into the realm of realism; where the hero doesn't always triumph over his adversities, particularly when he is the cause of it. So if Noctis were to say fall for Stella and unwittingly trust her to the point where she could betray him (Squidoo pointed out), then I'd want him to lose. Eh, maybe I'm just a twisted sadistic person like that.

I dunno, I feel like breaking things apart and analyzing stuff a lot today for some reason. Lol, I'm in an analytical mood I guess.
 
Of course its there: Stella is a hottie!:lew:

Noctis will have to have some kind of a failing in this game you cant spend 4-5 years in devlopment and have the main Protagonist be a whelp:hmph: I think that given the obvious Japanese Mafia type overtones of Versus S-E may have decided to base a character on a theme they know much about.

There own culture.With a fantasy twist.

Going by that logic they would have insight into a subculture that the West doesnt know much about this insight will allow them to explore a newer kind of Pride and the down fall it can lead to with in Noctis.

Is what i think:ryan:
 
Interesting angle there Acer. Personally I see it going about this way: mind you my logic's going to be elementary since I don't know much about the game (but then, don't we all to some extent? Lol.). Noctis meets Stella, they end up falling in love (or at least he does). Since his kingdom is tasked with protecting the last crystal within their world then the king of Tenebrae may want it. Stella could pass off some very viable info to the king (either he's her daddy or grand-daddy but exact relations are irrelevant at this point). The king could then subsequently order an attack on Noctis's kingdom which is at this point unnamed still whatever. Lol, let's see they successfully capture the crystal and then Noctis feeling like a sore loser may be prompted to unleash his attack that we see in the trailer to recapture this precious item. Stella could fight Noctis at some point and perhaps due to the might and sheer power of Tenebrae's forces, although Noctis's kingdom puts up a valiant fight he may end up losing.

However in my tragic and dramatic vision, that's what I personally see happening, though there are more specifics involved. Like I said, it's a bit rusty due to my vague amount of knowledge on the plot.
 
The trailers we already have bear another possible clue of the characters' eventual fate. The "light" that Noctis and Stella can see - linked with the Goddess Etro - leaves the former speculating whether they may be dying as in the usual case it is the dead that can see this light as a door to the next world. I suppose I could treat that as being an omen foreshadowing the events that would come later on in the story.

It certainly would be a fresh initiative to alter Noctis's relationship with the rest of the world here in a way that he could be an instigator of the world's ills and ends up having to pay for it. We've explored well-trodden areas of Final Fantasy over and over again where a character's place in the world is usually active resistance against an evil that was born through no fault of their own. Either that or Noctis can simply follow the Faustean road to ruin, starting off prosperous (he's a prince! A wonderful way to start off!) and rather naive, before spiralling into an unavoidable fate that brings him to the epitome of ruin and despair. It's certainly a fresh way to tackle a FF story than anything we've previously seen and the easiest way to do it.

I don't know how important the Hamlet quote will actually be in the final product and whether the story will be heavily inspired by Renaissance tragic morality plays, but I would love to see Noctis come to a fate that was brought to him partially or perhaps even completely of his own doing. To use a Faustean analogy as an example of the possibilities (yeah I know, that's not a Shakespeare play but it doesn't matter), if the arrival of Mephistopheles and the unholy art of magic with him brought Faustus on his first step to ruin, then what would be Noctis's own equivalent of Mephistopheles?
 
Well Noctis is without a doubt going to be a very interesting character and SE already said he is going to be a character unlike any other Final Fantasy character we have seen before. He is definitely going to have some dark and light in him.. and if he does fall for Stella it will probably end up being some Romeo and Juliet thing... I mean we see them fighting in the first trailer with Stella about to release her rapier.. this could be a hint that Noctis was betrayed by her.. or she is a possible rival(or maybe certain circumstances force him to fight her). His friend did say he was not so strong yet.. maybe that hints that Noctis is not thinking too high of himself and his royalty. He is a prince and his father at the throne... does Noctis want the throne.. does he want to become king? Well he is being targeted even as a Prince so that is interesting. Since he is going to be a character that Nomura wanted to make for such a long time we can only hope to see how great he really is. Stella will be the female that will stand out differently than any other in the series according to Nomura. Here we have two very interesting characters and I do not want it to be Romeo and Juliet here.. of course with all the development time being put into this game they surely will make it vast and different and amazing.. or is that me just hoping?
 
I do hope not, Finaru Fantaru is pretentious enough already. It would be even moreso if it claimed to be following the traditions of the classics and Shakespeare. They'll probably bottle it too, Noctis will learn the error of his ways and other shit like that, he'll become a good person and live happily ever after.
 
i do see the link between noctis and the tragic hero, seeing as nomura said his personality was different from the imprintable-whiteboard-protagonist and might incur a lot of initial dislike. that is to say, while noctis is the hero of the story, he will have many faults going for him.

from the 2011 trailer, i would guess his "tragic hero downfall trait" to be his brashness and overconfidence (which i think is really desperation to prove himself). this probably stems from his attempts to cope with the responsibility of the kingdom on his shoulders, and the feeling that he has to prove his value as a prince. so he'll probably screw up a few situations due to being trigger happy?
 
Well from the older trailers I probably would of got the feeling he is a "tragic hero", but from the newest trailer he seems more of a dork :wacky:. I did expect him to be different when he's around his friends/Stella, because with his friends he seemed like the leader of the gang and with Stella he was more outgoing and a bit flirty........But the latest trailer he just seemed like a kid.

But anyway normally when they show early trailers, they are the beginning parts of a game.......So I do hope that something tragic happens so his darker side prevails (but not emo-ey) :).
 
Having played the game and I haven't finished it yet so I'm speaking from the aspect of the first half of the game, before Noc can be any type of hero someone needs to teach that kid manners. Several comments he has said to his friends have been what I would call very rude. In the Gladious DLC the cut scene at the very beginning is a perfect example. I hope describing a part of the cut scene doesn't constitute a spoiler because it has no bearing in the actual DLC game. In the cut scene, Gladio is done with his trial and looking very much the worse for wear. Noc tells him that the scars on his face make him look "like a thug". That to me was incredibly rude even insulting considering he's a friend and one of the people risking his life to protect the prince/king. When Noc said that to Gladio I really wanted someone to give him a "Gibbs Slap". Anyone who has watched NCIS will understand that statement, and for those who haven't seen it, Gibbs is the main character who, when he wants to correct the much younger agents under him gives them what I've started to call a "Gibbs slap" on the back of the head - not hard - just enough to startle them and get their attention focused back on topic. That kid REALLY needs to be taught better manners. Maybe others will have a different opinion, or think I'm being too hard on the kid, but that's my opinion. Growing up I would never get away with comments like that, I knew better, but then again I'm from a different generation.
 
Noctis certainly is a bit like that, but to me it adds to his charm.

Noctis is a lazy and reluctant prince, and an even more reluctant hero. His duty has been thrust upon him (and various duties have been thrust upon all of the people tasked with serving him), but Noctis would rather lie in bed or play Kings Knight. It's quite endearing that he wants a completely different life to the one which fate has forced him into. Noctis has no freedom, and he fights this in his own rebellious way (but not enough to actually shy away from his duties). It gives Noctis a vulnerability which is absolutely needed to make his character interesting (if he was just overpowered and righteous then he might have been boring).

He's rude to his friends, but they are rude to each other sometimes too in the way of banter. They are very much still friends, but they tease each other to get through the ordeal. Gladio acts as the motivator of the group and keeps Noctis in line, so I can imagine that it wouldn't be out of character for Gladio to give Noctis a few 'Gibbs slaps' if we want to imagine that. Gladio certainly whacks Noctis on the back on more than one occasion, and he also tells him to grow up.

The title of the thread is also correct. Noctis is a tragic hero. FFXV is a tragedy in the sense that the key players are slaves to their fates, and they all serve in the roles which they have been designated.
 
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