Have Square Enix Lost Their Way?

[SirMaxALot]

Hello all,

I am new to this board but decided the time has come to say something after thinking on it for a great deal of time. To be clear, I would like to note that the point of this post is not to attack the company that has given me so many hours of joy, but to see if anyone else is as confused/disappointed recently with one of the greatest game-making companies ever. It's like seeing a close friend change drastically and negatively and all you can do is watch. I have arranged these into numbered points/questions:

1) Why are they not listening to fans? I don't know how much money they have tied up in market research or consultancy firms, but it's time to fire these people. I could list myself among a gigantic group that would probably pay up to 300 dollars (Random number i know) for a remake of FF6, FF7 or Chrono Trigger in HD. People have made petitions in massive numbers and are still just being brushed off.

2) Experimenting in other genres has run its course. Guess what we don't need? Another zombie game. Period. Also, there are companies that have been making zombie games for ages and still do... Let them do it. Deus Ex? THAT took priority over other games? Like it or not... I'll play Metal Gear 4 instead and would prefer you work on bringing the FF series back into the forefront.

3) Platform Saturation. Stop spending valuable manpower and writers on DS games... Stop it. It was fun to re-play FF4 remade, but now it's time to focus on PS3 and XBOX only. AND I get it, some of you like the Kingdom Hearts on handheld, but imagine if they put in the extra effort and made it a full platform PS3 release with much more features?

4) Why? Dungeon Siege 3, Mindjack, Kane and Lynch 2: Dog Days, Nier, Just Cause 2? These got the green light and your developers over XIII Versus?

5) Character Development. If you don't have it, don't make another Final Fantasy. Ever. Remember Penelo? She was in the entire FFXII? She was one of a small handful of main characters in that game. Who cares? I knew nothing about her at games' end than I knew at the beginning. If she fell off a cliff mid game I'd probably just laugh or draw no attention to it whatsoever. I didn't care. Remember Locke? He was one of a gigantic cast of playable characters. I met the love of his life. I tried to resurrect her with the Phoenix Esper. I searched for him with Celes. I knew his story. I cared. I can't listen to Aeris' theme online without getting a bit choked up. I used to know everything about characters and what made them tick. I remember watching Cloud take his helmet off in the replay in his mind and being in shock and actually really happy that he was a real person. He was a great main character that was badass with a wide range of emotion and a personal journey you could see evolving. The main characters have gotten less badass and more tame/unisex androgynous. Cloud/Ramza (Same Time) > Squall > Zidane > Tidus (Would have been cooler without the romper LOL Still good though) > Vaan > Lightning (I don't even remember her real name, was too annoyed by Vanille gabbing. Honestly, my GF at the time was like... this is lame. And she enjoyed FF10 as her first RPG exposure. FF13 Too bubbly.) I remember Barrett and Cloud in swearing matches and in each other's faces and it rang true as I read it. If I showed a kid FF now, they would say the same thing... "This is lame" And that's being nice.

6) No World Map. I know it's harder to render in HD, but nothing was more satisfying than taking the Highwind, Ragnarok, Invincible, Falcon, Great Whale or any other airships out. Or just walking around and fighting random encounters. Man I miss that. Travelling and exploring the vast world in whatever way I saw fit. Please God don't let Versus team give up on the airship and World Map.

7) Nobuo Uematsu. Give him anything he wants. Anything. Let him take complete control of any music. Beg him. Do whatever it takes.

8) Learning NOTHING From Competition. Why did more people await Mass Effect 3? Because they saw what people liked about your games and expanded on it. They appealed to adults. They made heroes cool and not bubbly. They found a way to keep an airship in a sense. Relationship paradigms. Remember seeing who would date you in FF7 and how your actions changed the flow of the game? Remember caring? I do. Well Bioware remembers too. It's one of the more fun parts of the series. Relationship development. How characters respond to one another. Remember in FF9 when Steiner tries to save Zidane's life? He says, "I cannot let you die! I have still not decided if you are suitable for the Princess!" When Zidane gives up. that was pretty heartwarming. He went from a man that tried to kill Zidane himself to being willing to die for his comrade. They developed a relationship that was interesting. SO I ASK AGAIN. Why is EA, the company that makes my NHL games kicking ass in the RPG market? They listen. They watch for what works.

I know I'm forgetting things... but it's just so frustrating that most of us have to go back and beat FF1-10 for fun because nothing of value has come out. Even Xenogears blows away anything in existence now by SE. Who left? Who took control? What happened? Because I am NOT alone in saying this.

Thoughts?

 

[Omegadruid]

Couldnt agree more... But it is said to see that they are not even interested in reading about our thoughts on their recent games... They just keep making their games for stupid kids that evaluate a game in their graphics...
And I just dont see how can they be so dumb not to release a ff6/7/8/9 (any of these) remake... I mean they are pure final fantasy material and they would sell for millions.. I guess since square became SE it all got fucked up!

 

[SirMaxALot]

I have read the interviews about remakes and it just sounds lazy. Awwww we don't have the time or manpower to remake FF7 for this console... BUT hey, here's 13-2!!!!! We did it very quickly!!! Wanna see A new Deus game?!!??!?! Give us a few months we'll fast track that bad boy!!! LOL I exaggerate but you know what I mean.

Graphics... We get it, you like to be cutting edge, but the transition from SNES to PS1 was your crowning achievement. Everything now is just life-like or pretty much life-like. Focus on what matters for the love of Pete.

I'll put it out there. I would probably spend 500 dollars for a completely remade FF6 in HD on the PS3 with ALL of the possibilities from before and more side-quests. I would do that.

"Ohhh, well we are re-making FF10 for the PS3!!"
"What?! That's cool! I can't wait for a re-make!"
"Re-master. We said re-master"
"No you didn't. You said re-make."
"No re-master. It'll be great though. Much sharper same graphics. Plus you can buy 100s of dollars worth of downloadable content!!" Sick eh?"
"Eat s%&t."

 

[Omegadruid]

why the fuck are they remaking ff10.. I mean its a great game sure but it is still too recent.. Why not remake the older games first?

 

[SirMaxALot]

Because their entire management staff are morons. This problem could have been resolved long ago but go to the SE website and commence puking at the terrible terrible lineup coming out. They had a big announcement today as well. A long lost project they want to bring back to life. Can you guess?
http://www.siliconera.com/2012/04/3...a-and-square-enix-were-working-on-after-nier/

Enjoy shaking your head. LOL

 

[kratoscar2008]

Square and Enix were bitter rivals before they joined socould be that there is still bad blood in them and theyre teamwork is suffering for it.

I dont want any remake, FF7 and FF6 are perfect and trying to bring them again would just kill the impression we had with the originals, Cloud is fucked up right now, you really want to see Celes or Locke fucked up too?
I dont think so.

SE need to take note of games like ME, Persona, Suikoden and Growlanser that still gives the feeling of a true rpg not this shitty anime-interactive movies they are coming up to now.

 

[SirMaxALot]

Suikoden is a great series. Much like SE, stupid Konami have let that series pretty much die as well. LOL If not remake, that's fine, but bring back what we loved when we started playing them!! Not a kiddy stupid mess. Dark tales that drag the entire world unto the brink of destruction and force good and evil to battle for everything.

 

[kratoscar2008]

Konami is letting the series die because the suikoden series arent powerhouses like FF and the sales arent that great but the suiko team still remember some things that made the series great, while ES have just been focusing on graphics and letting gameplay as a distant second.

The worldmap was my favorite part on any FF and in the moment they got rid of it the word adventure died with it.

 

[mikey_boson]

Square Enix were never "on their way" so I can't really say that they lost it. Squaresoft were the boys that knew what they were doing producing the games we know and love.

XII was the worst game I've ever played, no question and I then decided to not play on XIII and from many reports, this has been a good choice. X-2 wasn't much cop either.

The only thing good about X-2 was that Yuna and Rikku pranced around in nicely revealing and short, tight clothing. On XII, Fran had one hell of an ass and on XIII, that girl Vanille looked pretty hot too. However, this ain't what FF are about so these visually pleasing girls mean absolutely nothing really to what makes a good FF - they are good eye candy, that is all.

Anyway, I completely agree with your points 5, 6 and 7. There are many other points about the totally ineptness I could raise regarding SquareEnix but I've already discussed these in great depth on other threads so I won't bring them up again here.

The way I look at things now is that I have FF1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 all to re-play on again - SE just produced pure rubbish and I will never be buying anything from them again.

 

[L]

why the fuck are they remaking ff10.. I mean its a great game sure but it is still too recent.. Why not remake the older games first?

well a lot of people enjoyed it. it's probably going to be closer to a port than a remake, like Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions, if I'm not mistaken.

But if you are asking if the company has lost my recognition as an industry giant and developer of many great games, then yes, it definitely has.

Games are becoming too expensive to not be a 9/10+ critic review sure deal. for the 100 USD they want you to spend (on the game + whatever shit DLC they come out with), you could be buying new computer parts instead to play better games with. The prices are just making the pastime obsolete. It's only because companies like GameFly and Gamestop exist that consoles are still being played.

my friend and I were talking the other day, he was saying that next gen consoles would probably put those businesses down. I asked him if he thought the prices on games would come down, and he laughed at me.

But it's not just Square Enix. There is no company in the entire fucking industry that is dedicated to making games that run flawlessly (it doesn't actually have to be flawless, but at least show clear effort in the endeavor) and are actually good. Even with as good as Skyrim was, there are still so many retarded bugs in the game. There are a handful of good games out there, don't get me wrong, but back in my day, when an enemy knocked me down a staircase i didn't just glitch into it and sit there until my braindead ai allies finally died while enemies just pretended I no longer existed.

We are in a generation of gaming, where every fucking retard on a development team thinks that difficulty is synonymous with tolerance for redundancy. Where it doesn't matter that gameplay isn't streamlined for optimal performance when the game is going to punish you relentlessly for not performing optimally. Where it's the coolest fucking idea to play a game with AI that would probably end up AC slatering if you commanded it to sit on a toilet and emulate a bowel movement.

 

[Ohri-Jin]

4) Why? Dungeon Siege 3, Mindjack, Kane and Lynch 2: Dog Days, Nier, Just Cause 2? These got the green light and your developers over XIII Versus?

You sure these got developed by SE and not just published?
Im pretty sure they did not develop these games.

I agree with a lot of points, but regarding remakes of older FF titles is a no no.
PS2 FF titles can be remastered easily.
None of the older titles can easily be remade. That would cost too much money and time.

 

[Omegadruid]

But you know why people ask for remakes? because not only they want to relive the nostalgic experience of a certain game but also because the latest final fantasies are not as good as the previous ones ( XII-XIII). Not criticizing the gameplay evolution but the fucking retarded characters that have been created in the last titles and the not so good stories(although I dont really know much about XIII, only taking into consideration the general opinion about it)

 

[Linnaete]

1) Why are they not listening to fans? I don't know how much money they have tied up in market research or consultancy firms, but it's time to fire these people. I could list myself among a gigantic group that would probably pay up to 300 dollars (Random number i know) for a remake of FF6, FF7 or Chrono Trigger in HD. People have made petitions in massive numbers and are still just being brushed off.

In a way, they have been listening. They have certainly been "listening" to people calling for a FFVII remake, because Nomura and his peers are always asked about it and they are forced only to come out with "maybe/maybe not" responses. They're just not reciprocating because there is only so much you should take in from fans that are ultimately picky as hell, often don't really know what they want, and will never be fully satisfied no matter what you do. To let fans wholly dictate where to go next is often a dangerous move that can promote the stifling of innovation. In the case of a Final Fantasy VII remake, well, I'm glad they're not reciprocating. They may as well make an entirely new game than fuss around remaking something which is ultimately unnecessary. It's not like FFVII is hard to find. Your nostalgia fix is on the PS Store or on Ebay!

2) Experimenting in other genres has run its course. Guess what we don't need? Another zombie game. Period. Also, there are companies that have been making zombie games for ages and still do... Let them do it. Deus Ex? THAT took priority over other games? Like it or not... I'll play Metal Gear 4 instead and would prefer you work on bringing the FF series back into the forefront.

But Square-Enix hasn't made a zombie game as far as I know of. Deus Ex taking priority over Final Fantasy? See my reply to your fourth point.

3) Platform Saturation. Stop spending valuable manpower and writers on DS games... Stop it. It was fun to re-play FF4 remade, but now it's time to focus on PS3 and XBOX only. AND I get it, some of you like the Kingdom Hearts on handheld, but imagine if they put in the extra effort and made it a full platform PS3 release with much more features?

To an extent, I agree with this, though it's platform fragmentation I'm a bit baffled with. Spreading Kingdom Hearts over 5 different platforms now was just unnecessary. Outsourcing development of a FFXII sequel for the Nintendo DS was baffling. The latter instance made no bloody sense. If they wanted a DS RTS-RPG game, why make it connected to FFXII, which was a PS2 game? For Kingdom Hearts, it's got to the point where even Nomura has to realise that spreading the series out on disparate platforms that required fans to essentially go collect them all was not the best move.

4) Why? Dungeon Siege 3, Mindjack, Kane and Lynch 2: Dog Days, Nier, Just Cause 2? These got the green light and your developers over XIII Versus?

...you do realise that Square-Enix themselves didn't make any of the above? Dungeon Siege 3 was from Obsidian, Mindjack from FeelPlus, Kane and Lynch from IO, Nier from Cavia and Just Cause 2 from Avalanche - a Swedish studio. Square-Enix is also a major publisher nowadays, and perhaps thankfully so, because being a big publisher now, as well as its attainment of Eidos practically saved them. No offence, but I'm just baffled that you seem to think something like Just Cause 2 for instance, involved anyone from Square-Enix Tokyo, and had any bearing at all on the development of Versus.

And do you know what? Personally I think what the western arms of Square-Enix have pumped out lately, or will pump out have been, or will be, a lot more interesting and perhaps solid in terms of quality than what the Japanese core of the company itself has been producing lately. It's subjective I know, but for me the last "good" game from Square-Enix Tokyo that hasn't been a port or a remaster has been - yes - Final Fantasy XII. And honestly, to people who think FFXII is the worst game they have ever played, they seriously haven't seen an actual bad game.

5) Character Development. If you don't have it, don't make another Final Fantasy. Ever. Remember Penelo? She was in the entire FFXII? She was one of a small handful of main characters in that game. Who cares? I knew nothing about her at games' end than I knew at the beginning.

I can perhaps overlook weak characterisation if a game has other things going for it, but in terms of what the Final Fantasy fandom expects when it comes to characters, then I certainly agree on Penelo. I understand that FFXII attempted the route of making its focus more to do with the bigger world out there than anything really personal with the characters, I definitely agree with the vast majority that Penelo could have easily been absent. At least with Vaan, I got the sense that he got something out of the adventure.

I shan't criticise FFXII for being the one that dropped the ball with characters since when FFIV upped the bar though. I can easily be as unflattering when it comes to Quina for example. Quina's one of my favourite examples because h/she has no character whatsoever other than being gluttonous. At least with Penelo I can squeeze some personality from her.

7) Nobuo Uematsu. Give him anything he wants. Anything. Let him take complete control of any music. Beg him. Do whatever it takes.

Normally, I'm not too fussed about the soundtrack of the Final Fantasy games. However, FFXIII-2 came along and I quickly found what is perhaps the worst OST of the series yet. It honestly sounds like a school project of different styles from different members of the class that all had an assignment to hand in for Monday, but started late and locked themselves in the music rooms through all of Sunday to put something together. At this point, Nobuo being hired to work on something again would be a godsend. If not, then someone like Yoko Shimomura.

------------------

Of course the place is run by idiots now. It's got to the point that some of their decisions have been so bafflingly bad that it would be enlightening to work out just how they came to be. FFXIV's launch was so disastrous, that I question whether anyone properly and critically playtested it, and I'm not referring to beta testers. Next they decide to make a Dragon Quest MMO, because of course, their last MMO was just so beautifully handled, right? Hey, why not possibly throw more gas into the fire? Of course, if the Dragon Quest MMO turns out to be amazing, I will take that back.

Now let's look at their DLC misadventures now. Square-Enix are utterly inexperienced when it comes to DLC and it shows. I thought it was inevitable that Square would get on the DLC wagon because they're normally a moneymaker. Sure enough, it's worked, because FFXIII-2's DLC have financially rewarded them. Yet the DLC are just woefully poor in concept and execution. DLC costumes when most owners of the game have probably finished the game by now and therefore have no more new content to play through with these new costumes? Oh, wow! The precedence has been set now, so who knows what they could do next with DLC. Heck, why not scrap whole segments of Versus so you can release them as DLC a few months later, hmm? The sad thing is, I can see them doing it. Fucking Ubisoft did it for Assassin's Creed 2, which luckily I bought two years later with both Forli and Bonfire included.

I've not managed to play Final Fantasy XIII-2 for more than a few minutes, but I can tell that its narrative is a convoluted concoction of mediocrity and poor stupidity. I don't need to play the game to know that when I have a Wiki and Youtube when I'm disastrously bored. Square then does no favour to itself at all when dishonesty is employed. Yay, let's advertise Lightning everywhere! Make her the face of the game when she's barely there for more than 15 minutes of screentime! Toriyama then says FFXIII-2 will conclude with Lightning finding true happiness. Yay!....just not the "happy" sort of happiness then, hmm? It's got to the point that I really question the abilities of people like Toriyama. The guy lucked out with his work on FFVII, and maybe FFX, but since, the guy's a liability in my opinion. His whole development philosophy doesn't sit right with me. It essentially screams style over substance and trying to make fights seem as flashy and cinematic as possible.

Evidently, I'm extremely pessimistic. I don't think Versus will or can be the "saving grace" of the franchise that it's often hoped to be. I expect something playable, but I'm not expecting anything messianic, nor do I think it would ever satisfy the hype. FFXIII-2 may have been profitable, but approximately 4 million consumers that previously bought FFXIII stayed away from this game. No doubt the brand will still be profitable for years to come, but the damage has already been done, and in combination with the supposed rising hegemony of the western game industry now, it's a pretty grim and challenging time to be working on a Final Fantasy title. In fact, seeing FFXIII-2 take the Mass Effect N7 armour as DLC and include a halfhearted dialogue tree system has to be embarrassing. There's no pretense of anything soulful left, and only corporate fiddlings in its stead.

 

[PhoenyxAngel]

why the fuck are they remaking ff10.. I mean its a great game sure but it is still too recent.. Why not remake the older games first?

They're actually not remaking X. It's just getting better graphics, some extra features (possibly), ported onto the PS3 with unlockable trophies and they're probably gonna add DLC to get as much money as they can from us.

But it's not a full blown remake.

As for VI, VII, etc....I would like to see a remake eventually. Don't get me wrong. But for the love of god....they need to release Versus XIII before anything else. Seriously. They need to stop pushing it back for games we don't want. We don't need a FFVII remake right now. Let's look to the future of FF, and not the past. Let it happen in it's own time. But for now I want Versus XIII. I've been waiting since freaking 2006. And we're not likely to get it this year. I'd be surprised if we get in next year.

As for the rest of the points brought up by OP: I agree with what you said. I just had to add in my two cents on the "we want a remake of ____". While it would be nice to see a remake of VI (would make rather VI over VII. VII has too many things already. Where's my FFVI full length CGI movie?), it's not necessary at this time. SE has enough of a problem trying to take on too many projects at once. And that's another thing they need to stop doing. Stop trying to get so many games done at once.

 

[Martel]

1) Why are they not listening to fans?

They don't really need to; no matter what they make, it sells. Square Enix have reached that horrible point where they can rely solely on their reputation to shift hundreds of thousands of units of mediocre or downright awful games and only a few people will cry out against them, unless the games are so earth-shatteringly bad that they're unplayable...and, in today's society, which doesn't have a single shred of objectivity when it comes to video games, no game would be classified as that bad unless it had bad graphics. Square Enix are about style over substance these days, so they'll never get dragged down for producing crap like these deserve to be.

As for remaking their old games...too much time and effort. Besides, that isn't the point: they need to start making proper games again, not just releasing the old ones. Fans wouldn't be clamouring as much for remakes or remasters if their newer titles were up to scratch...they've only got as loud a voice as they have because SE's newer games are a far cry from their old ones in the sense that they have absolutely no new content; we've seen it all before. What is needed is originality.

2) Experimenting in other genres has run its course.

No, no it has not. You cannot, and never will, perfect a genre of games: experimentation is the lifeblood of progression. If you don't have people experimenting with genres, you get the same games, over and over again. Don't believe me? Look at any of Nintendo's series, particularly Zelda and Pokemon.

It is that kind of attitude that results in shit games: people don't criticise, developers just follow the same pattern and games stagnate as a result. It's been happening for two generations now, and it's only going to get worse if people think like that. There is no evolution, and as a result things become worse, and people start whining for remakes of classics because those can be forgiven because they did it first, when in reality they are no better or worse than the games coming out. I think what you mean is that we do not need another game exactly like the one that followed it, NOT that we just don't need another game of that genre. Fault them for messing it up, yes, but not for trying.

3) Platform Saturation. Stop spending valuable manpower and writers on DS games... Stop it. It was fun to re-play FF4 remade, but now it's time to focus on PS3 and XBOX only. AND I get it, some of you like the Kingdom Hearts on handheld, but imagine if they put in the extra effort and made it a full platform PS3 release with much more features?

Yes, and imagine how long it would take Square Enix to develop a good quality title on those platforms. The development time for FFXIII was ATROCIOUS, and the game itself was even worse. Handheld games are much better all around: comparatively less time needs to be spent on graphics, and you can pack a lot more into it. Given Square Enix's focus on style over substance, I would say you have this backwards: they need to stop making games for consoles and stick to handhelds, where the graphics are limited, meaning they actually need to make GAMES, not just pretty interactive movies where you hammer away at a single button.

4) Why? Dungeon Siege 3, Mindjack, Kane and Lynch 2: Dog Days, Nier, Just Cause 2? These got the green light and your developers over XIII Versus?

*twitch* Oh, you did NOT just lump NieR in with that shit. You didn't. Seriously. Square Enix had NOTHING to do with NieR; it was all Cavia. Not to mention NieR is the one of the best games to be released on this generation of consoles, because it differentiates itself from the mediocrity. It's single flaw are that its graphics aren't up to scratch, which means nothing when you have quality on that scale. Don't attribute NieR's success to Square Enix, and don't even THINK about lumping it in with lesser games made by lesser developers that were just following standard formula.

As for Versus XIII...so little about it has been released I don't see how you or anyone else can be excited. It's exactly like FFXIII was before it was released: all you really have to base an opinion on is graphics. Pinning all your hopes on Versus XIII is probably going to result in disappointment. I ask you, what does Versus XIII have that makes it look appealing? Shiny graphics? FFXIII had that. It's been in development for so long, so it must be good? Look how FFXIII turned out. The combat is hardly original, either. Futuristic setting? Been there, done that. What about this game is so captivating that it would warrant so much excitement? You're literally getting excited over nothing.

5) Character Development.

You can't have it both ways. Remember those shiny graphics you wanted? They spent so much time on that they forgot to add a game in! Funny, how things work out. Games take time. The better graphics get, the worse games are going to get, as the actual game portion is left out in favour of making it as shiny as possible. That's the trade-off; take it or leave it.

The problem is re-used character archetypes anyway, not the characters themselves. Like every other developer on this planet (with the exception of Cavia, which no longer exist, and Monolith Soft, who don't make enough games) Square Enix abuse character archetypes, and once you've seen them the first time, they're boring as hell. Penelo was no different from Rikku, who was no different from Selphie, who was no different from Yuffie. Once you've seen one, you've seen them all.

6) No World Map.

Same as above: the longer they spend on graphics, the less time they have to make a proper game. In any case, world maps are NOT essential: they convey a sense of freedom, but are no more or less restricting than anything else. The only difference with a world map is that you don't have to run in a perfectly straight line to reach your destination. Exploring a wide open space with nothing in it hardly adds much to a game's value; it just makes you think you have more freedom than you actually have.

7) Nobuo Uematsu. Give him anything he wants. Anything. Let him take complete control of any music. Beg him. Do whatever it takes.

Uematsu is by no means the greatest composer out there; nothing he has composed can come close to measuring up to the beauty and originality of the NieR soundtrack. He isn't essential. Compared to the other composers Square Enix have hired - like that horrifying entourage they got for FFXIII/FFXIII-2 - he's considerably better, but he is still outclassed by the likes of Keiichi Okabe and Motoi Sakuraba. What they need is a soundtrack that doesn't sound EXACTLY the same as the last one; one that sets the scene and compliments the background, and isn't just background noise. Uematsu is by no means the only one capable of accomplishing this. The problem lies in the way the OST is used: I imagine that even some of the tracks in FFXIII/XIII-2 could be put to use at the right moment, but it's finding that right moment that they're not doing. The right music adds an immense amount to the atmosphere of a game (as well as NieR, Dark Souls is a fantastic example of this) and they're selling themselves short by just composing random tracks and just tossing them into the background like it doesn't matter. It does.

8) Learning NOTHING From Competition.

In answer to this, I direct your attention to Xenoblade Chronicles, a game which is far superior to any Final Fantasy game to date. If Square Enix could make a game even HALF as good as this one, there would be significantly less complaint from fans.


I've said this before, and I'll say it again here: Square Enix are a victim of the times. They are by no means the only example, although they are perhaps the worst, alongside Nintendo. The problem is that their new games are identical to their old ones: there is no progression from what they used to be, and as a result people complain. Remaking their old games won't help them in the long run, because it doesn't fix the problem, which is, in short, that they've run out of ideas. Either everything that could be done has already been done, or Square Enix just aren't intelligent enough to come up with something new...and, given that some games are still able to push genres forward - as an example, I'll direct your attention to Resonance of Fate which, whether you like it or hate it, still had a unique combat system that hadn't been tried before - I would suggest the latter.

What we need is progression. Whether people know it or not, this is what they're crying out for, I think. People want things to be like they used to be, but things are EXACTLY as they used to be, with one key difference: we're all older, and that awesome game we played has been released so many times under different names that we've gotten bored of it. We don't need something old, we need something NEW. We need a Final Fantasy game with a unique cast of characters, not a hodgepodge collection of character archetypes we could find in any other JRPG, a developed battle system (FFXIII was hardly developed; it was a standard ATB gauge which let you attack more than once. FFXII is the furthest the ATB system has come, being almost real-time, so they need to build it up from that) a storyline we can't immediately guess after the first five minutes (because it's fresh and unpredictable, not so confusing we can't follow it and don't care to) that keeps the illusion of freedom and offers us something we haven't been offered before. Replaying games is nice, but I generally tend to replay the same game, not buy a new game with a different title that is identical to it in every way that matters.

Square Enix are by no means the sole exception to the rule. EVERYTHING is stagnating; as a high profile company, one that led the charge of progression back in the days we look back fondly on, they're expected to continue to lead that charge, and they're getting trampled on by lesser known companies that offer fresh ideas, because they're so bogged down in one style they don't know how to change. Monolift Soft have steamrolled right over all of their attempts over the past decade or more with a single game, and I could name others that, whilst they might not measure up gameplay-wise, have fresh ideas that have made them much more interesting.

Square Enix haven't lost their way. They've stuck to the same path they started out on, and this is the problem. That path is outdated and boring, and it's time to change direction. Their incapability of doing so is the problem.

 

[Sheechiibii]

Square Enix haven't lost their way. They've stuck to the same path they started out on, and this is the problem. That path is outdated and boring, and it's time to change direction. Their incapability of doing so is the problem.

I would say they're doing the opposite though. After X Square have made games that are nothing at all like the older ones in pretty much any way so a lot of what you're saying I can't agree with. XII and XIII are examples of them doing something different with their games. How can you say they're doing the same things? XII's battle system was entirely different to previous games, as was it's world, it's storyline, it's levelling system. I mean, what would you say they did with XII that was done in their previous games? XIII is even worse, there is seriously nothing in that game that's anything like the Final Fantasy games previously. I don't disagree with change, but they need balance, they need the aspects of the past that made the older games good along with newer aspects that may do well or may not. Making games that are nothing at all like what the fans have seen before is incredibly risky because what if the fans don't like any of the changes at all? Then there's nothing in the game to make it appealing to them.

Xx..xX

 

[Starships]

I would say they're doing the opposite though. After X Square have made games that are nothing at all like the older ones in pretty much any way so a lot of what you're saying I can't agree with. XII and XIII are examples of them doing something different with their games. How can you say they're doing the same things? XII's battle system was entirely different to previous games, as was it's world, it's storyline, it's levelling system. I mean, what would you say they did with XII that was done in their previous games? XIII is even worse, there is seriously nothing in that game that's anything like the Final Fantasy games previously. I don't disagree with change, but they need balance, they need the aspects of the past that made the older games good along with newer aspects that may do well or may not. Making games that are nothing at all like what the fans have seen before is incredibly risky because what if the fans don't like any of the changes at all? Then there's nothing in the game to make it appealing to them.

Xx..xX

Agree with Sheechiibii on this. If all the Final Fantasies were the same then they'll all be like Final Fantasy 1. Expect they're not. They have balance between new and old. Which is what FF XIII fails at.

FF II has a completely new battle system. FF IV was completely fresh and out of the square from the first 3 games. FF VII is so new and fresh compared to the first six though it still has that rebels fighting a evil empire/ goverment feeling.

FF VIII added in a totally new fresh Junction system, dreams where you play as a second main character and a card game. Which the first seven never had. FF X added in a new fresh battle system with tons of freedom and FF XII is the first Final Fantasy based from the Tactis games.

All of the Final Fantasies expect FF XIII have some balance between them and balance is good. It should not be shudded. A Final Fantasy game needs that balance between old and new otherwise it just doesn't work.

The Final Fantasy games are not Mario. They're actually different with just familar elements. None of this Save Princess from Browser over and over again. If the topic was Mario related I would damn right agree with you. Thankfully the Final Fantasy series are not just copy and pastes.

FF XIII fails because A) it took away everything good with the original Final Fantasy games and B) The storyline is a complete mess. It's like SE makes everything up on the spot and hope that it pulls through.

The agurement about the world map. I disagree that it still makes the games linear and just hides it. No. It doesn't. It gives the player freedom and choice. Take FF VII for a example. When you first leave Midgar everybody tells you to head to Kalm. But do you have to ? Nope ! You can head to the Chocobo Farm if you desire and say hello to the dancing Chocobos.
With FF XIII if somebody tells you to go somewhere you MUST go to that place. No choice, no freedom. It sucks.


About Yuffie- Selphie- Rikku. I have to disagree with this statement too. They're not alike. Yuffie is a kleptomanic who feels angry about her hometown. She's rude and she always expresses what she thinks even if it's uncalled for. Selphie is a girl with a mask. She hides her sadness and confusion with happiness. When she looses most of her close friends in Trabia her mask breaks down. It's sad and a little realstic. Rikku however is actually quite cheerful; no mask. She's also quite wise and intellgient. Not calling Yuffie and Selphie dumb but if there was a battle of smarts between them Rikku would win.
You see, they're quite different and unique from each other.

About Versus. Agree with this so much. The only really thing we're seen from this game is just shiny grapchis. Shiny graphics does not make a game good or the savior of the series. Don't count on it. But instead be prepared for any letdowns. If it ends up being good then great ! But a couple of pretty boys and good graphics doesn't make it the best FF ever made. Imo it's going to disapoint some fans because as Martel has already mentioned SE is style over substance these days. Which is poisoning any future games they create.