FF XIII Epic legacy grows better than ever

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donhimes

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Hi all... I've been in FF since X-2, though I have gone back as far as VII. I never finished actual game play in VII, but appreciate perhaps the most recognizable characters in all FF.
I have only the barest contact with pre-VII.

I enjoyed VIII though the much celebrated relationship of Squall and Rinoa turns out to be not much at all. Great journey and final battle.
I enjoyed IX... warm and fuzzy and the end made me shed a few tears of joy
I believe X has the greatest story of them all as Yuna is Christ ... great battle system, and I made my own sphere grid 800 hours in this one. What a treasure to build Tidus up ... glittering with auto-regen auto-haste and etc. Getting all the ultimate weapons is a titanic task and the butterfly race and chocobo ballon race had me near tears or rage but I got it.
I enjoyed X-2 with the spectacular into concert and tounge in cheek humor throughout. Payne is a character they should have done much more with. The game is a lot of chaos trying for full completion and I never got very far past the rather odd final hi-res cutscene.
I never played XI or XIV for that matter as I am not playing online.
I hated XII when it came out and actually returned it, but I was completely wrong! I have since gone back and played it out thoroughly except for a few of the most difficult bosses. I found the music wonderful of course, and the battle system really intriguing when you work with it.
So here we are...
I consider now FF XIII a real contender for best ever... of course benefits from the generational leap to XBOX-360... an incredibly detailed, luminous, and diverse environment with music so magnificent I let it play while working on other stuff. Story confusing, but makes more sense after a few times through.
I consider Lightning may be the most important character in all FF. She is the ultimate synthesis of Cloud... he has finally achieved his true female form! A game-faced riot girl who undergoes an amazing transformation... into a mom.
Vanille's decrystallization scene is breathtaking FF moment, and the bittersweet end has all the FF themes in one.
XIII suffers only from the desperate lack of money-making and the very tedious and complicated upgrading system. The battle system itself is great... the paradigms neatly wrap up the FF XII gambits into preset roles you can mix and match and switch around in battle. Puts you higher up in the chain of command.
I am inclined to view Lightning, Fang and Hope as the strongest team. I have just completed a game with Vanille, Snow and Sazh... this is more interesting than I thought. I have just given up getting my first trapezohedron and face the prospect of days of dull slaughter just to upgrade one weapon. Enough.
Very much enjoyed XIII-2 with Serah now more mature, though she really is not a very interesting character. Hope is magnificent!!! What a prince! The time travel aspect is interesting, and some new music awesome. The very interesting battle system update is the ability to incorporate the bestiary into your team... cool! A chocobo Ravager!!! Some new worlds like Augusta tower and Academia are really fun. Looking back though it seems they copy and pasted way too much directly from XIII and Lightning has a very small role. Serendipity is an unfinished mess. The gamer driven story line is too phony as it dosn't really matter what choice you make. The moogle aide for Serah is interesting, but the voice acting is a little trite. It is absolutely crushing to finish a sequel only to find 'To Be Continued'!!! Looking forward to Lighting Returns and many more years for Final Fantasy.
 
I hope this is a real Post, I LOVE The XIII series and it can only get better :). Personally X is my favorite, then XIII-2, then VII. Im glad someone finally relates with me :)
 
The OP's formatting could stand to be a touch more readable, but I for one like this thread :)

Square Enix may not be putting out the same caliber of stuff that they used to, but XIII/XIII-2 are nonetheless good and very enjoyable games. The best ever? Don't think I'd say that, but they definitely rank pretty high up on the list.

With all the negativity towards those games, you can count me in to stand behind anyone who spreads a little love for them!
 
I simply diagree. Compared to previous work, Final Fantasy XIII felt most incomplete. ANd focused too much on graphics. Yes, all games do, but this one did it in an unnecessary way.


FF XIII had great ideas, but were left unrefined. You control the team's battle strategy, and if you use libra then the character attacks its weakpoint from then on (as if we could choose where to hit?). i dont know it was a mix. but it's most definitely not the best out of all FF.

the sense of control was lacking. Higher command? it felt too restricting. The areas were literally hallways. The only place you can go was forward. The world itself was far too abstract, it didn't allow me to see it for what it was.

out of all Final Fantasy games, XIII lacks vision.

She isn't a true synthesis of Cloud. Although yes, both are Cold, one isn't a bigger Jerk than the other. Overall, she's not that important, only SE makes her so. lightning also was too strong of a character, yet her development happened rather quick. So she didn't seem the least bit realistic.
 
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I have to disagree because FF IV- FF X even FF X-2 are much stronger and better developed games. They had a much better soundtrack, better characters and better storyline.

Final Fantasy XIII has a battle system that can be easily abused. You don't even have to try. You can just press a button and let the computer do the work for you. Where is the challenge ? Where is the tactics ? Where is the thoughts and planning that you put into each battle ? With FF 13 you can just spam a couple of moves and then viola. There's no thought put into battles. FF V for example you have to juggle a system to make each battle and boss battle work. A Blue Mage, Black Mage, Dragooner, White Mage may work for one battle but it would crumble the party in another battle.

FF 13 it's just press X, press X, press X, press X, press X, press X, press X.

Battle is over.

Characters were made of cheese and had rather annoying voice-actors. So did Final Fantasy X but Final Fantasy X was Square's first time with Voice Actors. In Final Fantasy XII the VA'ing is fucking excellent. So there is no excuse. Vanille's voice just sounded like a chipmunk. Snow kept on yelling " SeeaRAHHH " every couple of minutes. It was damn right cheesy and maybe if Square was new to making games then it might of been understandable, but they're not. It's a
huge step backwards and I don't see how you see Lightning as a better hero than Zack Fair, Laguna Loire, or Zidane Tribal.

Heroes than do nice things and actually help and aid people like true leaders and heroes should do. I can't picture Lightning EVER dieing for somebody else the way that Zack did. Not in a million years. Plus Light treats other people like dirt. Did you not see Light slap Fang and Snow ? Did you skip that bit ?

Light is the most rude, selfish, bitchy Final Fantasy woman ever made and I don't see what her fans see in her. If you like her then that's fine, but in my eyes she's not a true hero and Zack, Laguna and Zidane should be getting the spotlight and attention that Light is getting right now.

I swear that the hardcore Light fans have just watched Advent Children and played Crisis Core and maybe Kingdom Hearts 1 & 2 and then jumped to the FF13 games and then all of a sudden declared that " Lightning is the best " but you say that you have played more than just those games so I'm confused here.

I've said it once and I'll say it again. If Light had a penis instead of a Vag and "he " slapped Snow, the whole gaming world would be in a huge uproar. Think about it. It's wrong and disgusting when a man hits a woman, but when a woman downright bashes a man it's " Girl power " ! " You go Girlfriend " ! " You bash that man " !

No. Just no. Just stop.

Stop.

So yeah, I really REALLY disagree with you that FF 13 is the best Final Fantasy and that Lightning Farron is the best hero ever made. But opinions are opinions.

FF 12 I sold and I'm getting around to selling FF 13 and FF 13-2 soon. FF 14 doesn't interest me and if you think that I'm going to buy a game where LIGHTNING is the main and it's all about HER, you must be either a) highly stoned or drunk or b) don't know me and I much I loathe and despise her character and how much it destroyed my faith and love for $quare- Enix.

 
Kweh!! Ok thats better... Yes I am real and a reall XIII and all FF fan. This is a very interesting and intelligent discussion so I will expand a few points...

Linearity... Who even invented this term? I don't mind this at all i guess thats just me but to the point the environments are so diverse and luminous it it s a wonderful road. The game of course expands to the entire world when you get to the Archlytte Steppe and teleport ability. I prefer this over the chaos of X-2 with all Spira available at the start how do you progress the story??

Characters... Lightning is rather one-dimensional, game faced and bishi, the genius being she perforce undergoes a radical transformation. We see the first glimmer when she rests with Hope and you can see that maternal instinct stirring mightily though she says otherwise. This internal conflict is interesting.

Vanille's decrystallization scene is a top 10 FF moment had me crying buckets!! Her bittersweet sacrifice along with Fang sends the story into the realm of epic. I don't like Fang all that much, she is a bully who owns her little friend, but we have to take that.

Battle system... I must insist this is a great system having labored through the very repetitious early versions. In turn based, you have to tell someone to do something over and over. In paradigm, you give someone a job, and they do it until you give them another job. The challenge is to put the right people in the right job at the right time.

I sincerely congratulate the person who got five stars on Vercingetorix if I understand the message... I only got one star and that's it! any tips??

XIII-2 I greatly enjoyed but Serah is completely one-dimensional as a cheerful hardworking cutie and thats all. The one time she got 'ticked off' is presented in a comical way. Noel is also rather bland as a buff decisive guy, rather uninteresting compared to Cloud or Tidus etc.

The reply by ultimadream was most interesting, though I liked XII more for the battle system that puts virtually at the level of programmer and grand music. Vahn is not so interesting.

Is a troll post one of Kimahri's weapons?
 
This thread needs a bit more balance. You can certainly count on me to do just that!

So, what has this epic legacy left us with so far?:

+ The near-deification of Lightning. Anyone who's even managed to endure Toriyama's presentation in the LR: FFXIII reveal and with at least a little shred of sanity left in them would find it embarrassing. He fawns and gushes over her, with an array of cheesy metaphors to describe her and practically calls her one of, if not, the best character they have made. Now, Lightning has somehow become so ubiquitous that an entire trilogy is named after her, when in FFXIII and FFXIII-2, she was only a part of a larger puzzle, not THE whole puzzle itself. Well, I say puzzle, but the FFXIII games are a puzzle that they can't seem to ever finish building and neither does it remotely resemble anything anymore with where they're going. And Lightning isn't even that great of a character when she's so shallow. Her only selling point by now is that she's a goddess tasked with going around kicking some arse.

+ Style over substance. FFXIII is one giant exercise of graphical galore at the expense of...well, everything else. They couldn't even come to a proper consensus as a team on the very gameplay design of the game until after they launched the demo, but it was okay, there were plenty of beautiful CGI and wonderful graphics already made. That's what matters. Gameplay doesn't matter when you have all these beautiful, shiny graphics to look at, even if the world itself is a tube with no real chance of the player feeling immersed into this rich new universe.

+ Passionless churning. FFXIII-2 smells like a large checklist than an actual Final Fantasy game. You know shopping lists? We've all done one before at some stage, as we go from aisle to aisle in the supermarket, ticking off the predefined things we need almost in a mechanical way. FFXIII-2 is just that. A product of checklists with the development teams doing all they can to tick off boxes by throwing all this into the mix to knee-jerkingly make up for FFXIII's shortcomings. Yet they also wandered off making new flaws as they go along. The end product feels like a frantic, disparate mix of the ingredients rather than anything passionately and meticulously put together.

+ A legacy of multiple sequels? I know FFX-2 pioneered this, but at least that gave us some insight into how the world of Spira has changed since Sin's defeat. A relatively logical direction to go. FFXIII-2 just goes a wholly different direction to the first game with this sudden dimension of time travel business and the need to iron out the timeline while I have no idea what LR: FFXIII is doing. Centuries after the events of FFXIII-2 they say, even though time is supposed to be rendered moot. It's a huge mess now - a storytelling disaster that no one should be able to take seriously and something that wasn't even necessary. FFXIII at least had an ending and if they did need a FFXIII-2, the logical direction of that would have been to properly explore this cohesive new world of Gran Pulse in the aftermath. But no, let's do time travel and create this utterly disparate universe which is all over the bloody place. I just picture a future of game series within a game series, with FFXV-2 and so on. Fun times.

Still, at least LR: FFXIII promises to be somewhat different to the other two (thank God), even if it still sounds a little crap already, with the baggage of this terrible overarching story for instance. To try and be the best of the trilogy has to be one of the easiest things to do and it will hardly be much of a feat if they do pull it off. Until then, I will say that I have never seen a game developer with their heads this deep in the sand before. It's positively hilarious that the widely-desired games are for whatever reasons, M.I.A. with no signs of emerging while something that is widely detested, disliked, apathetic towards, etc. continues to expand. It's like a wonderfully-crafted cosmic joke.

Oh yeah, and FFXIV 1.0 also left quite a legacy. Square's legacy this generation seems to be that they like throwing themselves deeper into a cesspool. Long-term fans' trust in them have eroded - how irreparably so, I can only guess - and they offer only knee jerk, reactive solutions with little actual consideration of long-term prospects. I wonder how healthy their stock prices would be if they didn't have Eidos, a good publishing branch and smaller handheld games to fall back on...
 
I also should have explained more about the Cloud/Lightning synthesis... I believe this is genius for this reason....

Cloud is a man who tried to save a woman and failed, though he was redeemed by his good intentions at least.

Lightning is a woman who saved a boy and succeeded brilliantly.

Also, Square Enix specifically states Lightning's appearance is virtually Cloud and this time they went ahead and gave him/her a female body.

Thank you for all thoughtful comments!!
 
I'll move on with a final Lightning tribute...

Edification > Transformation > Deification. Yes, I go all the way and remind members of the simple soldier literally reaching for the divine. The virgin Amazon in white armor ... personal bodyguard of the goddess Etros and bearer of the character heritage of Cloud himself. This is greatness... epic-ness (?) in a character and a Final Fantasy theme.
 
Toriyama is that you? If thats you please get a GF so you can stop this Lightning nonsense.

Oh and about making her a Goddess it was to give her some kind of coolness wich seems to have worked for her, GOD knows why! :choco:
 
donhimes said:
I also should have explained more about the Cloud/Lightning synthesis... I believe this is genius for this reason....

Cloud is a man who tried to save a woman and failed, though he was redeemed by his good intentions at least.

Lightning is a woman who saved a boy and succeeded brilliantly.

Also, Square Enix specifically states Lightning's appearance is virtually Cloud and this time they went ahead and gave him/her a female body.

Thank you for all thoughtful comments!!
Click to expand...

And by that note. Cloud is blone and lightning has pink hair. One is dumb and the other is trying to cosplay? Sarcasm to your very bland statement.

Ugh no...the difference is Cloud has a consistent personality compared to lightning. She changes drasticaly over one game for things that barely happened. And in xiii-2 she narely had any at all. Her character was unable to connect but not because she had no substance whatsoever but because she didnt have enough to make the events connect.

Cloud was mysterious. His personality was defined yet mysterious and those who played caught on early in the game. He was a badass and he didnt habe to try so hard. It wasnt what he did or what we knew, it what we see as we play.

With lightning you dont get that.
 
This thread needs objective analysis, not a reply to equip Auto-Trash. Lighting is a literary and visual triumph; not a perfect one. She meets and resolves conflict in herself and her world, and undergoes a remarkable transformation. She is unpleasant at times, relentlessly game-faced to the point of sullen, tight-lipped and angry. I would have revised this a little, but the point is her direct lineage from Cloud is not debatable. Enough of that.... there is much more to check out in XIII like the other characters, environment and battle system.
 
donhimes said:
This thread needs objective analysis, not a reply to equip Auto-Trash. Lighting is a literary and visual triumph; not a perfect one. She meets and resolves conflict in herself and her world, and undergoes a remarkable transformation. She is unpleasant at times, relentlessly game-faced to the point of sullen, tight-lipped and angry. I would have revised this a little, but the point is her direct lineage from Cloud is not debatable. Enough of that.... there is much more to check out in XIII like the other characters, environment and battle system.
Click to expand...


She's far from perfect.

We given her an objective analysis. Youre just not liking what we say.

She is unpleasant even when she's nice because it doesnt look real at all. And how you described lightning as if none of the characters before ligtning had that.


She's all eye candy.


And the gameplay was HORRIBLE! Im sorry but its like you never played a final fantasy game and only taking other ff fans opinions to make it seem like you do! The game forced you to control one character while the others battle style. That has been done before but in action RPGs not turn base games where the atb bar loads the virtually the same and the only time you have to care about certain attacks is when a character gains an eidolon but thats the one and only time. The game was just a complete restricting fail.
The world was so linear. It had no map, it had no room for any exploration. No towns, no dungeons, not even any optional events.

And her direct lineage to Cloud IS DEBATABLE. Especially the way you make it out to be.

THE REST OF THE CHARACTERS ARE CRAP! Sahz acts like a wimp and overdramatic. The only time i sympathized was when his son turned to crystal. Vanille was a dreadful character because everything that came out of her sounded fake and yes im aware she was pretending but people dont like easy to read acting people like real acting (part of the reason why i hate Black Widow in the Avengers). Snow constantly wants to be the Hero, and save Serah and always talks big. No wonder lightning and Hope were pissed at him.

The only one who was good was Hope!!! Hope had every reason to be over pestimistic as he lost his mother and saw the overzealous idiot mess up.
 
I said this before but I think my post was deleted but I still so believe that this is a Troll Thread. I just found it so hard and almost impossible believe that somebody has played the earlier Final Fantasy games and believes and thinks that Final Fantasy XIII and Lightning are the best things ever and that the Final Fantasy series are improving. It just doesn't make any sense.
 
_Rabbit said:
I said this before but I think my post was deleted but I still so believe that this is a Troll Thread. I just found it so hard and almost impossible believe that somebody has played the earlier Final Fantasy games and believes and thinks that Final Fantasy XIII and Lightning are the best things ever and that the Final Fantasy series are improving. It just doesn't make any sense.
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Agreed...this is just too much to take in. Honestly its also ridiculous how these points are being made.
 
Everyone is entitled to their opinions about each and every FF game, whether you believe them or not. If you have nothing to add to the discussion then there is no need to post. Posting to proclaim a thread/post as "trolling" is not adding to the discussion. Thank you.
 
Razberry Knight said:
And by that note. Cloud is blone and lightning has pink hair. One is dumb and the other is trying to cosplay? Sarcasm to your very bland statement.

Ugh no...the difference is Cloud has a consistent personality compared to lightning. She changes drasticaly over one game for things that barely happened. And in xiii-2 she barely had any at all. Her character was unable to connect but not because she had no substance whatsoever but because she didnt have enough to make the events connect.

Cloud was mysterious. His personality was defined yet mysterious and those who played caught on early in the game. He was a badass and he didnt habe to try so hard. It wasnt what he did or what we knew, it what we see as we play.

With lightning you dont get that.
Click to expand...

1. Lol no, what consistent personality? He was normal a the end of 7 then trollmura came in with the crapilation and made him be depressed and whiny in all future cameos.

2. People change. Lightning is probably over 10,000 years old at this point. So in a way you are right: She is not the same Lightning we knew at the end of XIII... she's the Lightning who has fought non-stop for countless years in an unwinnable war. It changed her. She states quite clearly in her message to Serah in the Vile Peaks that she is getting desperate to end the war... desperate enough to pray to a god that she doesn't even know. She quite clearly states in Requiem of the Goddess that she literally has no hope left and that her only wish is to see Serah again. She also states that her past mistakes haunt her to this day and that with each loop, she is greeted with seeing all the souls that will be destroyed should Caius succeed and even comments that she sees the souls of those she personally killed. She feels guilty that all she can do is watch over her friends, yet she can't really do anything to help them other than to hold Caius back. All of this stuff has changed her into the person we saw in XIII-2.

There is also the fact that Lightning is very practical. What good would cynicism do in her situation? She has armies to lead, battles to fight, and people to protect. Having doubts about her actions would only hinder her when she needs to be decisive. And again, her situation is about protecting those she loves and cares about. Why would she be cynical about it?

Now, that's not to say that her cynicism is gone. It isn't. All that happened was that she lost the anger that fueled her early cynicism. When Serah asks if they'll be together after everything is said and done, Lightning doesn't respond with optimism. No, all she says is "One thing at a time, Serah". She doesn't know how things will pan out, and she doesn't cover this fact up. At the end of the opening, she is very cynical as she states "I can no longer protect Serah". Her narrations else where are laced with undertones of cynicism as she wonders if she'll ever be able to face Serah and repair their strained relationship (she has a massive guilt complex about XIII and still feels bad about not believing her) and whether or not things will work out at all. Again, it's not gone... its just more depressed and melancholic than cold and angry.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/681990-lightning-returns-final-fantasy-xiii/64224271?page=2
 
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