When did Final Fantasy stop being 'Final Fantasy'?

Princess Happy said:
Perhaps the sole exception to this is FFXII, which is why I think so many people didn't like it: it cast aside the cliche tropes, cast aside the need for a crap love plot in the story, pushed the ATB system into its next logical step, and actually tried to be different.
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I have argued this many times myself, though with many faults of its own, Final Fantasy XII was a game that tried to do something different and in my opinion succeeded at being a great game without falling victim to the lovy-dovy, cheap soap opera bullshit that fans of the series have been accustomed to since FF VIII came along with its boring central love story. The problem with trying to be different is that Final Fantasy as a series attracted a great deal of new gamers with titles like FFVIII and FFX, the emotional chickflick loving anime freaks. The fanbase is broader but at what cost? That is why SE seems to have no problem with selling in great numbers regardless of the criticism they receive from a sector of their fanbase, because the fanbase has broadened; sadly a great sector of the fans have turned Final Fantasy into what it is today.
 
NeoTesseract said:
I have argued this many times myself, though with many faults of its own, Final Fantasy XII was a game that tried to do something different and in my opinion succeeded at being a great game without falling victim to the lovy-dovy, cheap soap opera bullshit that fans of the series have been accustomed to since FF VIII came along with its boring central love story. The problem with trying to be different is that Final Fantasy as a series attracted a great deal of new gamers with titles like FFVIII and FFX, the emotional chickflick loving anime freaks. The fanbase is broader but at what cost? That is why SE seems to have no problem with selling in great numbers regardless of the criticism they receive from a sector of their fanbase, because the fanbase has broadened; sadly a great sector of the fans have turned Final Fantasy into what it is today.
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Well I greatly enjoyed XII and my favourite FF games are X and VIII so personally I can't see how fans like myself (who do enjoy an engaging story, especially if it's romantic) would be bringing the series down. I'm not sure how what FF is today could be inspired by the love stories of those two games either considering there hasn't been a love story since X?
 
Sheechiibii said:
Well I greatly enjoyed XII and my favourite FF games are X and VIII so personally I can't see how fans like myself (who do enjoy an engaging story, especially if it's romantic) would be bringing the series down. I'm not sure how what FF is today could be inspired by the love stories of those two games either considering there hasn't been a love story since X?
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Technically you had Ashe and Rasler (although it wasn't the main focus) and XIII had Serah and Snow (a more major focus, but again wasn't the one main focus.)
 
Shuce said:
Technically you had Ashe and Rasler (although it wasn't the main focus) and XIII had Serah and Snow (a more major focus, but again wasn't the one main focus.)
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That's not really a love story though, that's just a couple in the game, their romance wasn't a part of the real plot. There have always been couples in FF games, right from the earlier games, so when NeoTesseract spoke about love stories I figured he meant central love stories where the plot of the game is focused on that couple. Like in VIII and X since he said it changed because of them.
 
Sheechiibii said:
That's not really a love story though, that's just a couple in the game, their romance wasn't a part of the real plot. There have always been couples in FF games, right from the earlier games, so when NeoTesseract spoke about love stories I figured he meant central love stories where the plot of the game is focused on that couple. Like in VIII and X since he said it changed because of them.
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I only played about 8 hours into FFXIII because it sincerely felt like a chore after a while (I even attempted to play the game again some months after but quit once more), and though there was a multi-character focus in the game it seemed, at least in the short time that I played it, that the central love story once again took the spotlight and any other events were overshadowed by the love triangle of Serah, Snow , and Lightning which was tedious. I rage quit the game because I simply could not stand it, it felt like a never ending hallway-cutscene sequence and the evident central love story ruined it. Not sure if the love story is central to the game throughout, but at least in the first few hours of gameplay it seems that way.

Now, I totally agree with you that there have been couples in other Final Fantasy games, (perhaps in most). Romance is not the problem with the newer or older titles, romance spices things up and sometimes adds to the story. It is when you turn the Romance in the game into the central theme of the story and give it a position wherein anything else that happens in the game is either equal in importance to the romance or is simply overshadowed by it that it becomes an interactive Japanese soap opera with a "Final Fantasy" title.
 
NeoTesseract said:
I only played about 8 hours into FFXIII because it sincerely felt like a chore after a while (I even attempted to play the game again some months after but quit once more), and though there was a multi-character focus in the game it seemed, at least in the short time that I played it, that the central love story once again took the spotlight and any other events were overshadowed by the love triangle of Serah, Snow , and Lightning which was tedious. I rage quit the game because I simply could not stand it, it felt like a never ending hallway-cutscene sequence and the evident central love story ruined it.

Now, I totally agree with you that there have been couples in other Final Fantasy games, (perhaps in most). Romance is not the problem with the newer or older titles, romance spices things up and sometimes adds to the story. It is when you turn the Romance in the game into the central theme of the story and give it a position wherein anything else that happens in the game is either equal in importance to the romance or is simply overshadowed by that it becomes an interactive Japanese soap opera.
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Well I don't want to sound like a nag, but you can hardly speak about the central themes and what takes the spotlight when you have only played the very begining of the game. Trust me, there's barely a love story in XIII let alone it being anywhere near central. XIII as a game and as a story is about as far from VIII and X as you can get...

The begining sets up the characters, only one of which has a romantic interest. I know because as much as I hate the game I'm actually attempting to give it a second chance. I've played 5 hours of it and already the 'love story' aspect is long passed a few hours ago. It literally is that fleeting, the purpose of it is to set up Snow's character and his relationship with Lightning. One of the characters involved in this 'love story' isn't even playable and she's not in the game longer than a couple of hours even as an npc. In fact, you only meet her in 1 scene. There is no way you can say that is in any way central or in the spotlight.
 
Sheechiibii said:
Well I don't want to sound like a nag, but you can hardly speak about the central themes and what takes the spotlight when you have only played the very begining of the game. Trust me, there's barely a love story in XIII let alone it being anywhere near central. XIII as a game and as a story is about as far from VIII and X as you can get...

The begining sets up the characters, only one of which has a romantic interest. I know because as much as I hate the game I'm actually attempting to give it a second chance. I've played 5 hours of it and already the 'love story' aspect is long passed a few hours ago. It literally is that fleeting, the purpose of it is to set up Snow's character and his relationship with Lightning. One of the characters involved in this 'love story' isn't even playable and she's not in the game longer than a couple of hours even as an npc. In fact, you only meet her in 1 scene. There is no way you can say that is in any way central or in the spotlight.
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True, I went back and made an edit to my comment stating that I wasn't sure if the love story is the dominant theme throughout the whole game. Not that it was my main problem with XIII believe me, another major problem that ticked me off was the repetitiveness and mind blowing linearity. I still have my game save for the game, and the game itself, so out of sheer masochistic impulse I will attempt to play through FFXIII once more, starting from where I left off. Seen as how you have at least made it clear that I won't have to put up with any lovy dovy bullshit later on. I'm counting on your word.
 
NeoTesseract said:
True, I went back and made an edit to my comment stating that I wasn't sure if the love story is the dominant theme throughout the whole game. Not that it was my main problem with XIII believe me, another major problem that ticked me off was the repetitiveness and mind blowing linearity. I still have my game save for the game, and the game itself, so out of sheer masochistic impulse I will attempt to play through FFXIII once more, starting from where I left off. Seen as how you have at least made it clear that I won't have to put up with any lovy dovy bullshit later on. I'm counting on your word.
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:) Sorry I didn't see your edit. Yeah, believe me the love stuff doesn't last long, whether things get better or not story wise though I'll wait and see. The first time I played this game I hated the story, I can only hope it's better this time. I'm counting on the story and characters to hopefully connect with me this time because there is nothing else for me to like in the game.

NeoTesseract said:
No, but I can easily say that about VIII and X.
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Really all I was saying was that I wouldn't blame VIII and X for the problems of the newer games because there isn't really a comparison between them when it comes to anything really, story or gameplay or anything...I loved VIII and X but the newer games are nothing like them, especially in terms of love stories, so attributing fault to them doesn't really make a lot of sense to me.
 
_Rabbit said:
...That's a bit mean Razberry Knight...8(

Agree/ Disagree when it comes to when Final Fantasy went downhill or died for you..

but don't insult...
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Thats the thing that i hate most. That there was no disagreement. Just a guy assuming things out of a fairly easy comment.

Im saying the focus on graphics didnt affect othr game features until final fantasy Xiii and have expanded. Shuce then says how ff always focused on graphics as if that was my srgument. And sadly this isnt the forst time he misunderstood a fairly easy comment. Its almost troll lkke.
 
I would have to say Final Fantasy stopped being Final Fantasy once FF12 dropped. I just was never a fan of the gameplay and it didn't even have its classic turn-based style. While it was a cool game, it really didn't feel like a true Final Fantasy and reminded me of Vagrant Story waaaaay too much (yes I know that some of it was based of Vagrant Story please don't criticize me). Afterwords the whole series just kinda kerplopped.
 
WutaiKisaragi said:
I would have to say Final Fantasy stopped being Final Fantasy once FF12 dropped. I just was never a fan of the gameplay and it didn't even have its classic turn-based style. While it was a cool game, it really didn't feel like a true Final Fantasy and reminded me of Vagrant Story waaaaay too much (yes I know that some of it was based of Vagrant Story please don't criticize me). Afterwords the whole series just kinda kerplopped.
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if you know, then maybe you should let that slide. other than that, there are several final fantasy games that come out that aren't turn base. i think final fantasy has to move away from it. we've had nearly 10 games plus some number of spin offs.

don't get me wrong, i love turn base. but it feels 100 times mroe fitting when it was 16-32 bit games. not in these 3D ones.
 
Razberry Knight said:
if you know, then maybe you should let that slide. other than that, there are several final fantasy games that come out that aren't turn base. i think final fantasy has to move away from it. we've had nearly 10 games plus some number of spin offs.

don't get me wrong, i love turn base. but it feels 100 times mroe fitting when it was 16-32 bit games. not in these 3D ones.
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There are 3D games with turn based gameplay? :confused: Where?!
 
Razberry Knight said:
if you know, then maybe you should let that slide. other than that, there are several final fantasy games that come out that aren't turn base. i think final fantasy has to move away from it. we've had nearly 10 games plus some number of spin offs.

don't get me wrong, i love turn base. but it feels 100 times mroe fitting when it was 16-32 bit games. not in these 3D ones.
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What is wrong with turn based combat.. Just take a look at the persona series.. It is turn based and still very popular.
 
RebelFynn said:
What is wrong with turn based combat.. Just take a look at the persona series.. It is turn based and still very popular.
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turn base is great when its 16-32 bit because i know thats what they're limited to. Persona series wasn't always that popular up until persona 3 and 4. Overall though, turn base isn't bad, but they can go so much more. Plus with several action based final fantasy games out there, it's not entirely a bad thing to go more from an action based.


Don't get me wrong, i'm not gonna complain if the next final fantasy entry is turn based. but look where it's leading. the innovating ideas stopped at ff12. Final Fantasy 13 is more focused on auto battle and using the same moves over and over. Games such as Crisis Core had more tactics than 13 because at least some monsters were immmune to certain attacks and certain ones were nearly impossible to defeat.

I liked hwo they added a really good mix to it that made you think harder on your next move. Or allowed certain things. turn base is getting old for me.

as for screechibi that was rather stupid troll like question. i'm sorry but even you know there are 3D games with turn base.
 
It stopped being Final Fantasy when they started adding modern shit to the games. I'm PROBABLY wrong, but the first appearance of anything modern-like was FF6... With robots and chainsaws and shit... Don't get me wrong, they are great games, I just always had Final Fantasy in my mind as knights, swords, magic, and other mid evil fantasy bullshit...
 
H0MO$3XUAL said:
It stopped being Final Fantasy when they started adding modern shit to the games. I'm PROBABLY wrong, but the first appearance of anything modern-like was FF6... With robots and chainsaws and shit... Don't get me wrong, they are great games, I just always had Final Fantasy in my mind as knights, swords, magic, and other mid evil fantasy bullshit...
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Final Fantasy has always had some modern aspects and even some sci fi. but because of the 16-32 bit era. we didn't really put that much thought. one of the first machines to appear was in ff4. its not that big a deal. they still use magic and swords. but who says fantasy has to be based off medieval times? i just think people should be more open minded about that. Japanese tend to put "fantasy" to its max potential that some westerners dont see it.
 
Razberry Knight said:
Final Fantasy has always had some modern aspects and even some sci fi. but because of the 16-32 bit era. we didn't really put that much thought. one of the first machines to appear was in ff4. its not that big a deal. they still use magic and swords. but who says fantasy has to be based off medieval times? i just think people should be more open minded about that. Japanese tend to put "fantasy" to its max potential that some westerners dont see it.
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I guess I always had it in my mind of "Fantasy" being more or less Knights and Magic :hmmm: I can see now how modern/futuristic could be considered 'Fantasy'...
 
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