What is a "true" or "real" Final Fantasy

Shaissa

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So in these threads lately people have been saying a few games aren't "true" or "real" Final Fantasy games.

My question for you. What is a "real" Final Fantasy?

What has to be in a Final Fantasy? What doesn't have to be in one?




To me Final Fantasy has to be an RPG or have RPG elements in it.

There also has to be a journey to save something or someone (usually ends up saving the world or a kingdom.) This is true with every Final Fantasy I can think of.

Final Fantasy Usually has a plot revolving around a central enemy or government, fighting against something that is either pure evil, or about changing a future.
 
To me I think Final Fantasy is more of a feeling than a set of gaming elements and staples, although they're still kinda important. I've always seen the franchise as one of the most creatives in the gaming industry, and it's hard for me to think of certain 'facts' that make a Final Fantasy game, it just feels Final Fantasy. Recognizing the same soundtracks, game mechanics and naming conventions are important, but mid-way through the game you'll recognize the same atmosphere most of the Final Fantasy games have in common, which is the magical effect of a collective creative imagination.
 
So in these threads lately people have been saying a few games aren't "true" or "real" Final Fantasy games.

My question for you. What is a "real" Final Fantasy?

What has to be in a Final Fantasy? What doesn't have to be in one?






To me Final Fantasy has to be an RPG or have RPG elements in it.

There also has to be a journey to save something or someone (usually ends up saving the world or a kingdom.) This is true with every Final Fantasy I can think of.

Final Fantasy Usually has a plot revolving around a central enemy or government, fighting against something that is either pure evil, or about changing a future.

You know where I stand....I think.

Based on your elements many games could be "Final Fantasy".

"Final Fantasy" was an IP developed by Sakaguchi among others for the company Squaresoft.

It's core traits:
Turn-based tactical combat that used a point system. (characters don't have to stay in one place in combat nor does it have to transition off screen to a battle screen as it would still keep it's core)
It had a leveling system for it's characters that you could customize
It was an RPG
It had a traversal world map using different forms of travel. (fast travel can be added without affecting it's core as worlds created now can be very large)
The games opened up over-time as you progressed and it told it's story in the confines of that progression.

Games from I-IX changed but each entry kept it's core traits.
It's as if there was an IP within an IP
I'm not talking about the legality of an IP but the traits and mechanics of an IP

What is a "true" or "real" Final Fantasy is beyond a persons opinion, it's about it's IP traits at it's core.
One could say that X wasn't Final Fantasy at it's core because it didn't have a traversal world map.

If it's core changes it needs to stop or be re-booted.
This is an unwritten rule but a collective trait in video game development.
Most AAA title games in other genres or series have this trait as well as movies and novels
In someways it has nothing to do with the title at all.
The logic is thinking beyond a traditional consumer and as a creator
 
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What one 'prefers' in a Final Fantasy game and what makes it a 'true' Final Fantasy are two entirely different things.

When you try to make them the same, you usurp the creators. It wouldn't make sense to do it with an artist or a musician, how does it make any sense that it should be done with a game series?

What makes Final Fantasy true is it's unique personality as an rpg. World maps and turn based strategy are not requirements.
Those two things are hang ups to some, and disallow any advancement. After so many games, there needs to be a change. Saying that the title should cease or be rebooted is just plain dull minded.

And plus, reboots most often bring the franchise down. Tomb Raider or Medal of Honor are perfect examples- they are only half of what they used to be.
So when saying the FF series should do the same, it's sort of just a slap in the face, and for no reason other then one's incorrigible fixation on older titles.
 
Yeah I agree with Jdeadevil, I think Final Fantasy games all have a sort of feeling or personality to them. They all feel kind of epic, maybe because they tend to revolve around big threats, threats to an entire world or government or way of life etc. You get the feeling that what you do is going to change the course of the world's history and make it or break it for the people in the game. It's a journey for the player to go on with the characters as they try and save their world. But another thing is the changing story lines and game play. There aren't many game series that are so totally unconnected like with the Final Fantasy games and I think it's definitely a part of what makes them unique.
 
Final Fantasy, like any other game series, has key signatures in it that makes it authentically part of the series.

For example
-chocobos, moogles, crystals, fira/thundaga/blizzaja, summons, Gilgamesh, etc. etc.-

The list can go on and on; these are trademark things that define the uniqueness of Final Fantasy.

Square Enix is not going to forsake the spirit of Final Fantasy. Sure, XII and XIII have evolved into different styles of gameplay, but the universal personality and system is still there.

It's still turn based, it's just evolved in speed and convenience.
It's still explorable, it's just evolved into a real scale.
It's still many things, and this is all what needs to be focused on rather then having a negative attitude.

After ten games, it's time to switch it up. In order for FF to stay current, it needs to- games are getting better and better, we are two generations ahead of the last traditional FF, it's simply just time.
 
Failure to not recognize the original core IP mechanics is dull minded.
The only thing you list is surface ideas and mechanics not the core.
Dull minded is letting Square Enix milk you like guinea pigs.
You can't prefer a Final Fantasy game when you lack the vision to know what it is.
A musician is an artist but an artist is many things. If you can't define that correctly how can you expect to define this.
Music is not a media based on literacy.
Square Enix forsook it's spirit long ago.
The games aren't still turn-based. Turn-based is each character takes a turn. You can't even define that.
It's explorable...like a hallway.
Other games get better, Square Enix games get worse.
I recognize a game by it's core mechanics, you and some others recognize it by it's title.

I don't have a negative attitude. I'm very positive that I've proven you wrong as a handful
of people are against me and hundreds of thousands like me.

I'm not saying that they won't make bad games in the future.
They might call it Final Fantasy but the core mechanics which I have said defines it's birthright.

By not re-booting it they confuse you so you'll continue to buy.
If you think there will be a Final Fantasy XXXVIII your beyond help.
My prediction is they won't last past XX but it could be sooner.

They milk the consumer and use the name as a cash cow.
As a business man I might be on Square's side but as a
true fan of the series I'm giving it to you straight.

You are wrong.

Square Enix doesn't care what fans want which is dangerous for an entertainment medium and most would agree their business model is wrong.
They want to attract the MMORPG, Call of Duty, and the Sandbox RPG crowd while using the Final Fantasy name thinking it can
take it's current fan-base with them, because that's where the money is in their eyes.
Only the heavy hitters in the other genres mentioned/IP specific make the money. Square won't be able to cut it and they would be smarter
by sticking with what they were good at.

Now they may pull it off...make a great game etc. But, the fact of the matter is the IP changed and they are using the name of Final Fantasy
under false pretenses even if you can't see it.

A handful of people can't decide or know what is current or popular. The last traditional FF was IX. The only thing that kept X from being traditional was a traversal map.
Traversal meaning you could move on the world map with different modes of transportation.

They could have released X as the reboot but they didn't.
A reboot for this franchise would not be like traditional franchises.
All they would have to do is drop the roman numerals, and name the franchise Final Fantasy a with subtitle name from game to game.

Elder Scrolls is already running into problems as they number it like that as well.

Naughty Dog will be smart to have the new Uncharted as just that. Uncharted a new IP and not Uncharted 4.
Games that are intended as trilogies can use numbers up to 3 as that is a literacy law to abide by.
Die Hard 4 and 5 weren't Die Hard 4 and 5 for a reason. They stopped numbering them.
Lord of the Rings was a book trilogy apart from the Hobbit which was one large book and it wasn't even numbered.

These literacy laws which are studied in history and English lit haven't been in affect in the video game industry but they should be as video games have become a media
that needs the same treatment. Most people who play video games on a regular basis however are less educated, and that's just fact based on years of statistical research.
The only thing most video games do now is increase your kinesthetic reflexes.
Since the pressure for educating people is on a rise as education standards are going up there may be a trend as people are being taught a little better.
I spent many years not playing any video games and worked all the time to secure for myself a good future. Now that I have the money and time to do what I want I am more informed
than most people who are gamers or fans of any particular game or series. You might view that as boastful and arrogant and that's to bad because I'm really trying to open your minds.
You few people who challenge me can't see what is past your own nose. These are not personal attacks just facts and you shouldn't be sensitive as I'm trying to help you.
Failure to acknowledge my intelligence and education is also dull minded. Even using dull minded is not proper use the the English language but it's language you can understand.
Everything I've said makes sense even to my 16 year old nephew, though he as an above average IQ like me and is pursuing the same paths of education as me.
This will be my last post in this thread as well as a lot of these types of threads, as I can tell there is a group here that just likes to argue and give opinions without fact or logic, but I'm not surprised.
I find plenty of people to debate and have decent intelligent conversations with in PM as well as other websites.
Have fun arguing. :-)
 
Who gets to decide the 'core IP'? I don't think it's you Spoony. Thinking you know better than the creators of the game is kind of presumptuous. You do not know which parts of Final Fantasy the designers decided would stay in the series and which parts were up for reinvention. It's likely even the designers didn't know. They designed a game series that they intended to continuously change, that we know for a fact because they've been doing it from the very start. Do you really think they planned from the beginning which parts they were going to restrict themselves to? When they'd decided to change things up each and every time? I highly doubt it. More likely they assess what is popular, combined with their new ideas and what they can do with the technology they have, and they try to make a great new game in the series.
 
You few people who challenge me can't see what is past your own nose. These are not personal attacks just facts and you shouldn't be sensitive as I'm trying to help you.
Failure to acknowledge my intelligence and education is also dull minded. Even using dull minded is not proper use the the English language but it's language you can understand.
Everything I've said makes sense even to my 16 year old nephew, though he as an above average IQ like me and is pursuing the same paths of education as me.
This will be my last post in this thread as well as a lot of these types of threads, as I can tell there is a group here that just likes to argue and give opinions without fact or logic, but I'm not surprised.
I find plenty of people to debate and have decent intelligent conversations with in PM as well as other websites.
Have fun arguing. :-)

Are you kidding me? The irony is you probably have the same attitude as the company you are slating you are just too egotistical to notice. People can have a different OPINION without being wrong. I haven't even read some of your previous posts, I may agree with them for all I know, but this post is a joke. How can you criticise people so heavily and throw their intelligence in to question over something opinion based? Educated - Maybe technically but you clearly lack a little of the common sense. You're an ass, an entitled ass.
 
Guys, let's not resort to flaming each other. Remember, we are talking about games here. No need to get snippy. Any more name-calling will result in flaming infractions.
 
There's a guy on YouTube called the Spoony who does videos of FFVIII. Just wondering Spoony are you the same guy? To reply with what you're saying though, what is your business? You keep saying you're looking at it from a business perspective and I think you've insinuated what you do once, but I've never seen you clearly state what it is that you do. Even though I give you some thumbs up for creating the celebration thread for the FFX/2-HD, I can't help but think you're a little arrogant in your debates. Statistical analysis and business perspective are clearly there as an objective front for research, but to go as far as calling people dull minded or insinuating people would be for their actions and/or opinions is just plain wrong and isn't coming from a business side of things; it's coming from your disgust over other peoples' decision or lack of an opinionated stand-point. As Sheechiibii said, who decides what the core mechanics are? You? Don't you think that belongs to the actual creators of the game?


You went on to ramble about literacy, but it wasn't really too important and didn't have a point other than to belittle everyone with your almighty intellect. In fact you literally said "Failure to acknowledge my intelligence and education is also dull minded", which is hilarious. What, so anybody who disagrees with you is stupid because they don't realise it came from a higher power? And then you said people argue with you because they just like to argue. You can't say that in a 900 (10% +/-) word post declaring your superiority. It just doesn't happen, and with what you've said on other threads I think people have a reason to disagree with what you say. I'm still having trouble getting past your comment on Squaresoft pushing it by not letting you navigate the map in a 3D atmosphere from the airship. I mean, what even is that? Your dictatorship over the franchise change-log?


I'm not going to flame you personally, but, holy shit..
 
I wasn't going to post again but to clarify and apologize since this reaction was not my intention. I'm not that Spoony One Experiment. Although he and I would have similar opinions it would seem. Not all but some. I was called dull minded first by Ultimaja weather he agrees or not, he did it indirectly with post number 4. I'm not flaming here or proclaiming almighty intellect. I run a business in electronics but I'm also a highly respected business analyst and business executive of a fortune five-hundred company which for anonymity and the fact that I can't advertise not just by the rules of this site but the rules of the company.

I have an above average IQ. I have degrees in business, history, and a doctoral in psych. I'm privy to some information in the game industry and/entertainment industry as I have friends in both.
I formally apologize if I have come off as knowing more than others and can dictate what is and isn't. While I still feel I am right, if it is offensive I won't dictate my facts. This is the level of scrutiny I deal with everyday and I don't back down easily. When someone disagree's with me and I know they are wrong I continue to debate. I could of been worse like I am at work. The truth is the very people that create your games that you love are just like me. At least the ones who run the show not the real talent. It's just a bitter truth. They don't care. I run the show in my business but the people I work for are worse than me.
I apologize for my lack of tactfulness. In all fair sense I don't think I'm above you in any way. It's just the way I was raised. I could have used tactics to undermine people but I don't want to break the rules so I didn't.
You've heard the phrase it's lonely at the top. Well that about sums it up. I know it's hard for you to understand...see I do it without thinking. In work I handle a lot from trends, business research. In fact most of the work I do is research. I research people to exploit so to speak. I know it sounds bad but that's the reality of business. I use games like Final Fantasy or just video games in general to escape. Though I have money, life kinda sucks.
Please accept my apologies as I didn't mean to offend anyone. I promise to be kind and respect your opinions.
 
Ok...IP isn't just a business term, its also a consumer term. why? because IP is something business use in theory, but the consumer is the evidence they need.

for example, ppl loved the first FF, then created ff2, a game that offered more story within the characters and the weapon lvl system. wasn't well received, so se tries again in ff3 instead adding a job system, fans loved it so we get to see it in future installments, ff4 had jobs stuck with certain characters and we got the active time battle system. in ff5 we got the job system and active time battle system. ff6 we got desperation attack and in ff7 it evolved to limit break, which also added the most customization to attacks.

all of these choices were based upon the consumer and SE may see it as a business stand point, but keep in mind, if they are gaining any money at all, they are reacting to either A) consumers that have just introduced to the series (new IP) or old consumers that continue to follow it. But ALSO the consumer is whats deciding what SE should consider as the IP. Now....what i consider a true FF title?

*RPG in some shape or form (action RPG, tactical RPG, etc.)
*Free roam with towns, and an overworld or at least a world map.
*full control or the option to control your entire party.
*Chocobos and/or moogles, the series of monsters that have been brought into the story.
 
If the game has spells that end in "aga," gives you the ability to power level from the very beginning of the game, has at least one crystal (materia included), has large amounts of weapons and accessories and items to equip, has a story line consisting of the need for a group of friends to save the world from evil, has airships and Cid, and has a kickass bad guy that you are strangely infatuated with, THEN, and ONLY THEN, is it a final fantasy game.

XIII:
"Aga" spells? Check.
Power level? Nope.
Crystals? Yup.
Stuff to equip? Sort of.
Good vs. Evil? I guess.
Airships and Cid? Sort of.
Kickass badguy? Not quite.
 
I don't know if there really is a 'true' Final Fantasy game but I would like to see if they could write a good story or handle the drama better. FFXIII was far to melodramatic for my tastes and the character just feel kind of boring to me.
 
I don't know if there really is a 'true' Final Fantasy game but I would like to see if they could write a good story or handle the drama better. FFXIII was far to melodramatic for my tastes and the character just feel kind of boring to me.

Agree with that. The development of the story really was just drama for the sake of it. Why would Hope hate Snow when he knew full well that he tried to save his mother? It's pointless, and there's a narcissistic rant about losing faith in almost every area in the game. One of the only real pivots of the story was when Dysley reveals himself as his true identity Barthandelus but even that falls weak. When I was playing through the game though it just started to annoy me when Dysley emerged because I knew it was just going to lead to another long cut-scene or FMV and another repetitive boss battle. The predictability of the drama didn't do the plot any justice.
 
Dysley is baddass. Very climatic death. If you didn't enjoy that awe, then it's no mystery why you don't like the game- one is a sorely dull minded prick.

Anyways, what makes a Final Fantasy is the title, plain and simple.

What is your problem? I don't know if you're being serious half the time or just trolling but to say that anyone who doesn't share your opinion is a 'dull minded prick' is so unreasonable I cant believe you're being serious about it. Seems like you're just trying to wind people up.

As to the title thing, I agree, if it's called Final Fantasy then technically yes, that's exactly what it is.
 
The main thing for me is that it has to have a cast of characters that I not only give a shit about, but that I also find interesting. The game cant have a shit cast.
It also needs to have an intriguing and interesting plot. The story has to keep me interested and make me wanna keep playing the game.
Side quests and Chocobo's also are in there, along with amazing music.

 
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