The "bad omen" of a video game franchise

Shaissa

Shaissa

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A lot of video game franchises have that "bad sheep" or "bad omen."
That one game that basically brought the series down, and either made it so they stopped making those games, or made it so the other games after it didn't sell as well.

For me I can think of two of them.

Suikoden IV

and

Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter


Suikoden IV
it wasn't that it was a bad story line... cause story line was actually quite good. What killed it was that it lost a lot of the "Suikoden" feel to it. Most of the 108 stars were just Thrown into the game and didn't make a lot of sense. The gameplay of travelling by ship to go to... 9 places or something, was just so boring... Overall this game almost killed Suikoden series, to the point where Konami doesn't even wanna think about releasing anymore games over seas... so sad :sad3: I really loved this series....

Breath Of Fire: Dragon Quarter
I don't even know where to begin with this game.... Breath of Fire's 1-4 were all fantasy RPG's with a classic feel RPG... And Dragon Quarter became... like a dungeon crawler type of game. This upset so many fans, and get some pretty bad reviews on it, after this game, there was not another Breath Of Fire ever made.... again another good RPG series that died from one game.

So what are some games of bad Omens you know about? Did you actually like the game or hate it?
 
Dare I suggest that Final Fantasy XIII will become one of these? I think Resident Evil 6 might be in danger of it as well, if the reception it's had is anything to go by...

Star Ocean: Till the End of Time is regarded as something of a black sheep, if I recall. Although I actually quite enjoyed it - even if death via MP loss was infuriating - and The Last Hope which followed it. I have played much, much worse, but a lot of people I've spoken to regard SO3 as a black sheep and, having played the PSP remakes of the first two games, I can see why...although I've not played Blue Sphere, and apparently that was awful, so whether or not it was Blue Sphere that was black sheep and this just rubbed off on TtEoT I have no idea....

I wish The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time was one of these. It deserves to be for destroying the franchise.

This type of game isn't very common; normally, games that follow on from other games don't sell as well as that game because they are perceived to be inferior to it. The video game industry has this absolutely stupid idea that you can't improve on something past a certain point, and that anything that follows on is automatically a clone of it, and thereby inferior to it. I would say games don't sell well more because of that than they do a black sheep in the family.
 
Tiny Tina said:
I think Resident Evil 6 might be in danger of it as well, if the reception it's had is anything to go by...
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To me Resident Evil 4 is the game to blame in the RE-franchises, it was there it all started to go more action less survival horror. And the Action-element made it more popular. It might be a great TPS/action game but IMO its not a good RE game. It sold better that way and the business is about making money not satisfy a smaller core-group of gamers so RE will probably never return to Survival Horror again.
 
It all changed with re4 but i think resident evil 4 was a brilliant game. I enjoyed re5, it was a fun action game. Re6 though...no. Didnt like it at all. Highly anticipated this game too and what a disappointment it was.

Final Fantasy 13 is definitely a killer for me. I didnt love ff12 but i thought it was a good game. FF13 is the only ff game ive actually stopped playing because i disliked it so much.

Resistance 3. I dunno if this counts cause theres only been 3 resistance games. But it ended with the 2nd one which was brilliant. Res3 was just a complete limp willy.
 
Growlanser Heritage of War

This game almost killed the series for changing to a 3D environment and very bad graphics but some people liked it (Including myself) luckily ATLUS gave the series a second chance with Growlanser Wayfarer of Time.

FFXIII

Nuff said it started the next gen FF era in a horrendous way and will most likely end it in a same way with Lightning Returns.

RE 5

I liked RE4 while different at least retained some kind of survival Horror feel (Atmosphere) but RE5 is where things went really wrong, it destroyed the atmosphere of the series in pro of more action and the Co-op just ended slicing the trhoat of the series. RE6 just seem to keep the trend.

Mortal kombat 4

Somehow the series losed its appeal after they opted for the 3D way, all the PS2 MK were subpar games compared to MK trilogy and while the next gen games (Banning DCvsMK) are good they still dont make up for the series zombified status.
 
Tingle said:
To me Resident Evil 4 is the game to blame in the RE-franchises, it was there it all started to go more action less survival horror. And the Action-element made it more popular. It might be a great TPS/action game but IMO its not a good RE game. It sold better that way and the business is about making money not satisfy a smaller core-group of gamers so RE will probably never return to Survival Horror again.
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I can see where you're coming from, and to a degree I'd agree with you, as Resi Evil 4 shaped the two games that followed it. But at the same time, I don't think it's because of Resi 4 that the franchise started to decline, and I certainly don't think it can be regarded as the black sheep: Resi 4 was very well received by critics and fans despite it's departure from the survival horror genre, because it was a very well made game, and as a Resi game it was certainly better than the Code Veronica instalments. It took Resi 5 for people to realise the change and start complaining about it, so if the downfall of Resident Evil came before Resi 6, I would say Resi 5 would be the black sheep: Resi 4 changed a lot, but it didn't destroy the series. The reason I pointed out Resi 6 was because the criticism has been far more pervasive than Resi 5's, even from the beginning, and I think with Resi 6 being what it is, a lot of people will be unwilling to try another game out in the series in the future.
 
H0MO$3XUAL said:

By this, you mean that it was SO good that no other sequel could top it/be as good as it? I REALLY hope you don't mean that OoT was a bad game, because for all intents and purposes, it was one of the best games.
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No, I mean Ocarina of Time was a bad game, and that in fostering the perception that it is one of the best games thereby locked Nintendo into cloning it with every Zelda game that has followed, which is why no Zelda title has matched it: they think they've perfected the franchise, and no longer feel the need to try anything new. I loathe Ocarina of Time; it's a pile of overrated trash that wrecked what had been a good franchise before it. Which is why I wish that it was regarded as a black sheep; I wish people could see what it's done to Zelda. It's Nintendo's equivalent of Final Fantasy VII.

Anyways.

Star Fox Adventures is another game I'd label as a black sheep, although there haven't been many Star Fox games released in recent years...but then, perhaps that is why. Lylat Wars was quite a popular game, and Fox is one of those Nintendo characters that just seems to have fallen out of favour since his untimely Gamecube debut with this game.

I REALLY hope Metroid: Other M proves to be a black sheep as well; if it doesn't, there is something wrong with this world. Other M is a disgrace; it destroyed Samus' character, played awfully, was stupidly short and easy - a problem Metroid games hadn't had until it came along - and there just wasn't a single thing about it that was even remotely redeemable. If it doesn't become a black sheep, it should at least stop Nintendo from letting Team Ninja develop another one.

I think it'd be safe to label Sonic Adventure 2 Battle as a black sheep, as well, especially considering the state of the 3D Sonic games that have followed it. I think they've been trying to turn things around with Generations, but Sonic has had a VERY bad reputation after that game and, whilst some have been better and others have been worse, the general consensus seems to be that Sonic was better in his 2D days. You could take it one step further and say it started with Sonic Adventure, but that wasn't quite as painfully bad.

Oh, and whilst I'm at it, let's add Banjo Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts to that list. If they make another BK game after that little disaster, I'll be very surprised. After the overwhelming charm of the first two games, for them to come out with THAT was just beyond belief.
 
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Ocarina of Time is really overrated and fans can't seem to realize how flawed it is. Is it a terrible game ? No, not even close. But is it the best game that was ever made and the Holy Grail of gaming ? No. No way. It has a terrible dungeon, infamous for being terrible and characters like that creepy guy Tingle ? And Navi. But fans seem to think that it's 100 per cent wonderful when it's not.


It's really unfair on other Zelda games and other games in general If they had annoying characters and things then that game would get a huge bashing, Ocarina of Time ? Lol nope. Perfect and the best game ever made !

So yeah I agree with Tia with this.
 
Quest for Glory V: I absolutely loved the Quest for Glory series. I played through the first four games multiple times. The first four were hybrid adventure/rpg with great storytelling and characters. V was released as an action rpg, removing all of the adventure elements from the game. This in turn removed a lot of the game's charm and made it completely different type of game. It just didn't feel like Quest for Glory anymore.
 
i stand by what i always said. zelda just couldn't adjust to the console change. when it started into snes.. it started to go down hill and when it went to nintendo 64 and then gamecube, it just wasn't the right feel. i dunno.. maybe its because i was growing up and was getting into different types of games, but zelda just after link to the past.. i just couldn't get into.
 
seddy-0 said:
i stand by what i always said. zelda just couldn't adjust to the console change. when it started into snes.. it started to go down hill and when it went to nintendo 64 and then gamecube, it just wasn't the right feel. i dunno.. maybe its because i was growing up and was getting into different types of games, but zelda just after link to the past.. i just couldn't get into.
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Not fan of Zelda but i respect Nintendo for being able to maintain this series feel, sure people find it archaic but i would had wish more games retain the feel of old like Zelda has been doing.
 
This thread is perfect lmao. I almost wanted to make a thread like this about why COD succeeds and others dont.

COD has pretty much been the same for the last 4 games why? because a succeeding formula works and all it needs is tweeks.
Complete overhauls (CAN) fuck up the whole freeking series.



RE5 went astray from survival horror.

FFXIII was too westernized but failed in this aspect cause Japanese ppl try too hard.

Silent Hill has turned to shit aparantly.

The New Devil May Cry has a total new main lead. I think he sucks but who knows the game might be succesful but that doesnt mean die hard fans will still dislike the main lead.

Halo 3? It was a total different vibe but felt a lot of the same..I lost interest. I really cant explain it tbh cause Halo is like COD.

I'll come up with more when they pop up in my head.

ZELDA OOC (on Nintendo 64) FTW!!!
 
FFXIII Shit game didn't even feel like an FF game. Has definitely changed the way people think of Final fantasy I think.

Suikoden 3, really anything after the second Suikoden has ruined the games for me, they're just not charming like the first two and don't even feel like Suikoden games anymore, they feel quite rushed.

Any sonic games after sonic adventure battle 2 were rubbish.

that's all I can think of for now :O
 
Diablo 3 definitely killed "classic" Diablo (1 and 2) because it completely screwed everything that made Diablo 1 and 2 stand out up. The maps aren't nearly as randomized as previous Diablo's, the story felt quickly rushed, and 3 follows an almost identical path that 2 did - Act 1 near Tristram/New Tristram, Act 2 is the same boring, long ass desert level, act 3 in Diablo 3 is act 5 (Lord of Destruction) and act 4 is a combination of the Pandemonium fortress and, probably, the only unique thing about the game. The item drops blow, the formula is screwed up for that. Character advancements and custom builds are pretty much nonexistant, and over all, the game is just so lack luster. Diablo dropped, on Inferno mode, the crappiest items I had gotten in all 4 difficulties.

I'm going to catch some flak for this, but I think FFX was the start of the Final Fantasy downfall. The lack of a free control airship, the dungeons and such became much more linear and less exciting than previous games, the level up system/sphere grid (yes, some people absolutely love this, I'm in between whether I like it or not), and it trails down more as each next game came out. FFXIII is one straight line, and once I got to the end, I was like "this is it? This is what FF has come to?" I think I beat the game in about 15 - 18 hours. Sad, because the game is what, 3 or 4 discs?
 
Good topic!

I think quite a few games went on too long when they should have really called it a day. FFX-2 was the moment (I think) that the 'bad sheep' showed it's head. Now I've not got a ton of hatred for X-2 but it was too cheesy, girly and too gimmicky for a FF. You had no character development because you had done that already in FFX and the storyline was a bit pants. Then 12 came along and I detested that and have not played a FF since. From what I can gather 13 was bad anyway so I'm not missing anything.

Onto other franchises - I'd say Gran Turismo 4 was the bad sheep. I loved GT1 and then GT2 was more of the same but with more licences, cars and tracks. I enjoyed GT3 because on the PS2 the graphics were amazing but even then, I don't think it had the fun-factor of the original. GT4 was then just the same as GT3 with just a few different challenges and game modes but it wasn't groundbreaking. It was at this point I think the GT franchise should have ended or attempted to do something different.

More black sheep arise when companies released their new games on the PS2 - Spyro and Crash Bandicoot spring to mind. All the games on the PS1 were brilliant, in fact it was only a couple of months ago that I played all the way through Spyro 2. From what I saw of the PS2 releases however, these games were rubbish and not a patch on the PS1 games.

Tomb Raider: Angel of Darkness was another one. This franchise was great on the PS1 but when AoD came out, it was just rubbish. It was just another brand that had gone on far too long and should have been put to bed.

I expect there are a lot of other franchises I've played on that had bad sheep but I just can't think of them at the moment.
 
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