[TD] Team debate "mods"

[Roland_Deschain]

Ok two polls are down. The FF one is filled, and the other is 1 away away from a couple results.

Now I am here to discuss voluteers to be watch dogs for the debates (people that are fairly regular on the forums).

I Think Ness would be a good addition, so would pockets. So if you two are intrested let me know, I am aiming for 5 altogether to make working easier.

If you are intrested please throw your hat into the ring.

Several comments I wish to make on this system is...

This group of people will have certain abilitys to maintain debates and ensure fairness in the order of the list of rules that I have posted in the Main discussion thread. These people do not have the power to interject their own debates.

This group of people would be fairly effecient in the effect of picking votable topics for debate sign ups. We can create a cycle system where we exchange the ability to post debate topics up for election to the public. However premade teams will will still be able to choose and organize their own events.

Throw your names in the ring and I will also take the opinions of other people (including mods) for choosing.

One last thing. Keep in mind we want to keep this serious and mantian a proffesional attitude. So if you are willing to be a part of everything then please understand you are also requesting the responsibility of staying involved, being fair, and keep also putting forward creative ideas to make it all work well.

 

[Martel]

Sounds interesting...but wouldn't it be better to just have a single discussion thread where ideas are put forward by everyone? I don't see why you'd need a specific group of people to do something like that, and the mods of that section would be able to handle anything that needed handling. I don't see why you'd need a pseudo-mod group to keep an eye on things the mods of that section would be able to do. Perhaps if you established two debate teams you could have a couple of leaders like Kira and Raye head the GFX teams, though

 

[Roland_Deschain]

Sounds interesting...but wouldn't it be better to just have a single discussion thread where ideas are put forward by everyone? I don't see why you'd need a specific group of people to do something like that, and the mods of that section would be able to handle anything that needed handling. I don't see why you'd need a pseudo-mod group to keep an eye on things the mods of that section would be able to do. Perhaps if you established two debate teams you could have a couple of leaders like Kira and Raye head the GFX teams, though

As TTT said, it would be nice to have the debatists monitor our own debates. I have a feeling we can take care of this ourselves so we do not require the help of anyone. Its our inconvienence this way. Beside we are going to debate with a serious manner, it shouldn't be their responsability to eyeball every debate and critique it beyond normal debates.

As for putting forward discussion to everyone at once... every time, there would be no organization and it would be messy. People would all post many different random ideas into a thread and then once we put them forward it would be next to impossible to fill a debate with them. Also it would take more time, and be much more sloppy that way, almost like a debate for a debate. The idea for an everyone discussion would be cool if we just intended to do this once, however we want to create a system made to continue.

With this idea the power of people setting up their own teams and debates is retained. And we have a group of people contributing well rounded debate ideas, and putting them up for election to everyone. This is to not say these people can't take ideas any way they see fit. The five people could cycle ideas they want together into a vote and the public could choose.

Would you be intrested in joining? You have a knack for gentlemen debates it would seem.

 

[Martel]

As TTT said, it would be nice to have the debatists monitor our own debates. I have a feeling we can take care of this ourselves so we do not require the help of anyone. Its our inconvienence this way. Beside we are going to debate with a serious manner, it shouldn't be their responsability to eyeball every debate and critique it beyond normal debates.

Well, the whole point of having moderators is so that they keep an eye on things...but I guess I can see your point about this. Past experience in some of the topics has shown that we cannot really "take care of ourselves" as you put it, although I suppose with that in mind, if the representatives couldn't handle it, the actual moderators could

I personally think that everyone participating in a debate should critique things; the normal level should be sufficient, really. But then, I like over-analysing things. I suppose a "third team" as such is a good idea; perhaps it's just the way you worded it and the way I interpreted it that has me a little iffy of the idea

As for putting forward discussion to everyone at once... every time, there would be no organization and it would be messy. People would all post many different random ideas into a thread and then once we put them forward it would be next to impossible to fill a debate with them. Also it would take more time, and be much more sloppy that way, almost like a debate for a debate. The idea for an everyone discussion would be cool if we just intended to do this once, however we want to create a system made to continue.

True enough, but if people actually have a say in what they're going to debate, then surely they would be more motivated to take part? Leaving the final decision up to an independant group would be fine, but I think there should be the opportunity to talk about it first. Even if it is just shouting out ideas, it'd give people something else to consider, and if something was particularly popular, it'd be more enjoyable for everyone participating if it was discussed. I'm not saying that you should rely solely on the members of the teams to pick the topics, I just think the members should have a say in things, rather than heaping it entirely on this external party of pseudo-mods.

With this idea the power of people setting up their own teams and debates is retained. And we have a group of people contributing well rounded debate ideas, and putting them up for election to everyone. This is to not say these people can't take ideas any way they see fit. The five people could cycle ideas they want together into a vote and the public could choose.

I think we have more or less the same idea, just on a different scale. I don't see why we couldn't have both teams organizing their own debates, and putting forward ideas for the forum-wide ones, which could be considered and discussed by the group of people you're suggesting. Letting people shout out their own ideas like that would fuel team organisation of debate topics that didn't make it, as well.
Note that I agree with you about putting things in a vote and letting people choose. I just think a little more involvement in the suggestion process, if not the selection process, might be an idea to consider.

Would you be intrested in joining? You have a knack for gentlemen debates it would seem.

I'd never join a debate team; I tend to stay out of the debate section at the moment because very little interests me, and I tend to take a very cynical view of life in general, which most (read: all) people don't agree with. I doubt I'd make a very good "mod" for this, although if you find yourself with a shortage of volunteers, I wouldn't mind doing it...I'd have no shortage of topics, at least. xD
Thank you for saying so, though

 

[Shaissa]

if your in a debate team, can you not join this? I mean I would be interested in helping you out with keeping an eye on things, but im in the FF debate (depending on how it goes I might or might not be in other debates, but I will still read them, I find debates fun to read.)

But I will throw my name into the hat, if I can help I will

 

[Roland_Deschain]

I think we have more or less the same idea, just on a different scale. I don't see why we couldn't have both teams organizing their own debates, and putting forward ideas for the forum-wide ones, which could be considered and discussed by the group of people you're suggesting. Letting people shout out their own ideas like that would fuel team organisation of debate topics that didn't make it, as well.
Note that I agree with you about putting things in a vote and letting people choose. I just think a little more involvement in the suggestion process, if not the selection process, might be an idea to consider.


I'd never join a debate team; I tend to stay out of the debate section at the moment because very little interests me, and I tend to take a very cynical view of life in general, which most (read: all) people don't agree with. I doubt I'd make a very good "mod" for this, although if you find yourself with a shortage of volunteers, I wouldn't mind doing it...I'd have no shortage of topics, at least. xD
Thank you for saying so, though

I was not asking you to be on a debate team at all. I was actually asking you to assist in doing what your doing atm, getting involved.

You have many great ideas that I have been considering over and over in my head. But here is the problem... There are a lot of people who would be intrested in this and many of them have said this. Now what I am asking for here, is people to step up and be a part of it. I do not want everything to reflect my idea, I just wanted it to happen, and this requires people getting involved.

So will you join the team of structure, is more or less what I am asking. This may include anything from moderating debates, putting forth ideas, and helping the ball roll, so to speak.

 

[ribbit]

Okay so the mods will just basically be people who facilitate the discussion and keep it from going off topic and running smoothly? They won't be getting any actual mod power to delete/edit posts in the threads. I wouldn't mind helping out to be a part of this in whichever debate I'm not a part of. Mainly the first FF one as I may have jumped into that one a bit too hastily Oh well

 

[Roland_Deschain]

Okay so the mods will just basically be people who facilitate the discussion and keep it from going off topic and running smoothly? They won't be getting any actual mod power to delete/edit posts in the threads. I wouldn't mind helping out to be a part of this in whichever debate I'm not a part of. Mainly the first FF one as I may have jumped into that one a bit too hastily Oh well

That sums it up very well. I am looking for people who want to build something good, and help out doing so. If you are in it for power, then you might as well not be in it. Thank you for your display of intrest

 

[Shaissa]

The Mods Are like a group that gets together and throws ideas in on how to make the Debates run more smoothly, better, and to get ideas on debates right?

On top of that they make sure the debates stay on track and are following the rules and are not attacking any one person right?

 

[Roland_Deschain]

The Mods Are like a group that gets together and throws ideas in on how to make the Debates run more smoothly, better, and to get ideas on debates right?

On top of that they make sure the debates stay on track and are following the rules and are not attacking any one person right?

Yes indeed.

 

[ribbit]

That sums it up very well. I am looking for people who want to build something good, and help out doing so. If you are in it for power, then you might as well not be in it. Thank you for your display of intrest

Nah, not in it for power I've had modding experience in the past, I just don't think anyone would take me too seriously as not everyone knows me too well. But I'll see how things turn out after the first debate.

 

[CassinoChips]

Okay so the mods will just basically be people who facilitate the discussion and keep it from going off topic and running smoothly? They won't be getting any actual mod power to delete/edit posts in the threads. I wouldn't mind helping out to be a part of this in whichever debate I'm not a part of. Mainly the first FF one as I may have jumped into that one a bit too hastily Oh well

Also, the concept makes it so that the same person isn't moderating every debate, allowing everyone who is so inclined to take part in debates. Becuase you also don't really want someone who is debating also being the moderator. Conflict of interest and all that.

Roland_Deschain These threads can go in The Sleeping Forest. This section is more for site development/general feedback.

 

[Roland_Deschain]

Nah, not in it for power I've had modding experience in the past, I just don't think anyone would take me too seriously as not everyone knows me too well. But I'll see how things turn out after the first debate.

Well you have a good attitude. Count yourself in from now on. This will give you the motivation to help make the first debates stick. We have a FF debate, a standard debate, you along with the others who join can help make an awesome random debate.

Some others I would definately like to see play a part of this are, Calico, Harlequin (I have talked to him prior), definately Licky because he has already showed a lot of concern, this is his chance to help create it, and any of the mods who have shown intrest. Furthermore I invite anyone who wants to be a part, please speak their piece

 

[Harlequin]

It sounds really interesting and I'd like to play a part in it in some capacity, but I'm expecting the next month or so to be pretty busy so I'm not entirely sure exactly how much I'll be able to commit to it all. I'll be happy to free up some time and help out but if you've already got 5 who can commit more to it then by all means just exclude me.

 

[Dragon Mage]

Ultimately, what you're proposing is something like a Neighborhood Watch sort of deal. The people involved have no official authority, but are organized and aware and actively strive to make the community better, instead of just doing it by accident. They have no power themselves, but represent a greater authority.

Also, authority goes a long way. A person designated as a 'volunteer debate mod', just as a title, would do much to defuse tensions. A symbol of authority is all it takes to make people smooth their feathers. It would also be a great boon to the mods, who I know hate having to spend so much time reading megapost upon megapost over small things. And our mods are a precious commodity -- while they are bleeding their eyes out reading endless debate threads, they aren't taking care of trolls and other flamewars in other sections of the forum. That is where the volunteer mods would really prove their mettle, by taking the load off the forum staff and improving the forums as a whole.



I definitely want to help out and mod the debate board. I seldom ever post on the debate board, but each time I have (all 2 of them) I got tremendous approval and support for my posts. I can provide links to these threads if you wish. I don't post on the debate board often because I absolutely loathe drama and do my best to either defuse or avoid it -- so I'd say I'd be a good candidate just on the basis that my own disinterest automatically puts me in a very neutral position. As a mod, of course, I would spend lots of time monitoring the board, but because of my natural disinclination to participate, wouldn't get involved in the drama I'm supposed to keep tabs on.

Not meaning to toot my own horn here, lol, but I really do think I could perform this job very well and I would love to finally give back to this forum other than the occasional donation.

 

[Roland_Deschain]

Ultimately, what you're proposing is something like a Neighborhood Watch sort of deal. The people involved have no official authority, but are organized and aware and actively strive to make the community better, instead of just doing it by accident. They have no power themselves, but represent a greater authority.

Also, authority goes a long way. A person designated as a 'volunteer debate mod', just as a title, would do much to defuse tensions. A symbol of authority is all it takes to make people smooth their feathers. It would also be a great boon to the mods, who I know hate having to spend so much time reading megapost upon megapost over small things. And our mods are a precious commodity -- while they are bleeding their eyes out reading endless debate threads, they aren't taking care of trolls and other flamewars in other sections of the forum. That is where the volunteer mods would really prove their mettle, by taking the load off the forum staff and improving the forums as a whole.



I definitely want to help out and mod the debate board. I seldom ever post on the debate board, but each time I have (all 2 of them) I got tremendous approval and support for my posts. I can provide links to these threads if you wish. I don't post on the debate board often because I absolutely loathe drama and do my best to either defuse or avoid it -- so I'd say I'd be a good candidate just on the basis that my own disinterest automatically puts me in a very neutral position. As a mod, of course, I would spend lots of time monitoring the board, but because of my natural disinclination to participate, wouldn't get involved in the drama I'm supposed to keep tabs on.

Not meaning to toot my own horn here, lol, but I really do think I could perform this job very well and I would love to finally give back to this forum other than the occasional donation.

The first two Paragraphs ultimately sums that up to a perfect number of what I think we should have, and what I hope everyone can benifit from. A lasting cycle of debates featuring various styles, with an organization to ensure its variety, and to defend it.

The last two paragraphs feature the right attitude completely, and I think you would make a great addition to such a style. If anyone else has anything to say on that matter please speak up.

Draklor, Dragon mage, and I. I think making it an even 6 would be perfect. I know Ness has some debate exprience and offered to help, as does California WV. I am hoping they will opt to join. Also there are reccomendations for Starstruck and Calico. There are several others that have showed intrests in the setting we could make together, but have yet to post in this thread.

FOR THOSE JUST SEEING THIS. The following is link to the discussion thread to continued talk, adaption, problem solving, and evolution. Also it contains a list of base rules I fixed up (which is subject to change if need be.) Along with the explanation and result to the style we will use.

http://www.finalfantasyforums.net/showthread.php?t=49444

 

[Abstract Debauchery]

I'm willing to give this a go. The debate section is typically fun to read... until everyone starts using circular logic, posting the same arguments, using logical fallacies, and then resorting to "well, you're stupid" and then it stops being fun. I typically don't participate in debates simply because of those reasons. However, I wouldn't mind "modding" one to ensure things don't get to that point.

Overall, I think it's a good system, and at least until the end of August, I have plenty of time to spare.

 

[Roland_Deschain]

I'm willing to give this a go. The debate section is typically fun to read... until everyone starts using circular logic, posting the same arguments, using logical fallacies, and then resorting to "well, you're stupid" and then it stops being fun. I typically don't participate in debates simply because of those reasons. However, I wouldn't mind "modding" one to ensure things don't get to that point.

Overall, I think it's a good system, and at least until the end of August, I have plenty of time to spare.

Would you also be willing to lend a hand in the adaption, expansion, discussion, of the idea. For example after we gather the right collective amount of people to be involved, I was thinking of opening the thread to talk about maybe remaking the first debate votes, or instead tweaking it for the future vote and involvment of the public. Is this something you would also participate in?

 

[Shaissa]

Would you also be willing to lend a hand in the adaption, expansion, discussion, of the idea. For example after we gather the right collective amount of people to be involved, I was thinking of opening the thread to talk about maybe remaking the first debate votes, or instead tweaking it for the future vote and involvment of the public. Is this something you would also participate in?

I like getting a public vote, I was kinda thinking like giving "points" away.

like have a public vote where its kinda a majority rules kinda deal, the team with the most votes get those "points"

Then have the "mods" or "judges" or whatever you wanna call them vote, now you can have it again be a majority rule kinda deal where the winning side gets all the "points" or you can have it where each "mod" has a point and whoever they vote for gets there point.

then whichever side gets the most "points" wins the debate.

 

[Roland_Deschain]

I like getting a public vote, I was kinda thinking like giving "points" away.

like have a public vote where its kinda a majority rules kinda deal, the team with the most votes get those "points"

Then have the "mods" or "judges" or whatever you wanna call them vote, now you can have it again be a majority rule kinda deal where the winning side gets all the "points" or you can have it where each "mod" has a point and whoever they vote for gets there point.

then whichever side gets the most "points" wins the debate.

This is something to be discussed in the other thread. That one regards ideas and changes.