FF12 - Why does everyone hate this game?

[Squid]

There is one of these threads on FF13 but to be honest I think more people seem to love 13 than 12 which is horrifying to me.

I am playing through this game again, I just started over the weekend and I'm enjoying it a lot, more than the first time I played it. I think it's because I am older now and understand things more. I get a lot of the jokes the characters say etc.

I'm loving the characters, I actually feel like most of them have a lot of depth and personality tbh. Balthier is probably one of the best FF characters out of them all. Vaan is also growing on me. People complain that he has no point to the story, but he kind of does, with his brother and stuff. And what if Vaan's story is just that he just happened to fall in with the right people? Why can't that just be his story. Isn't he meant to be that hero that people can relate to because everything is new to them? I dunno, I just feel like he gets a bad wrap when he's no where near as irritating as say Tidus during the first half of FFX etc.

I wont comment on the story yet because I am still early in the game and can barely remember it.

Gameplay is so much fun, I love gambits and I love getting to see the enemies on screen.

Anyway, why do you think people hate the game and why do you hate/like it?

 

[Rey]

I really loved Final Fantasy XII despite being very late at finishing it. I finished it about 2 years ago, and that was because I grinded like crazy since I was always using the fleeing feature because I was scared of battles when I got the game a number of years ago. I was at the Tomb of Raithwall at level 4-5 lol. The secret to leveling up for me was by quickenings. I defeated the tomb of raithwall using that strategy at level 7.

I liked the story very much and the same goes for the gameplay. I liked the free roam and I know some people think FF XII is basically an MMO since the characters can use any weapons. I think that was my only gripe with FF XII. I like unique weapons on the characters, and while they do have default weapons, you can easily change that. Ashe wielding a hammer is ridiculous for instance.

I loved the world map, and I did not think it was an MMO. The characters were very likeable and my only gripe was with Vaan. He is not the main protagonist because it is so obvious he is just a character who has a dream of becoming a sky pirate. Ashe however is integrated into the storyline even if you only find out through the middle of the game. Basch was even more worthy of protagonist than Vaan. Vaan was useless, but I must say I started liking him towards the end despite all my hate for him before the end.

Okay I do have some hate for some dungeons.

Stillshrine of Miriam. Fuck.. that place and all the garbage it threw at the party. I remember it being so hard, and I passed it under leveled which was quite awesome.

DRAKLOR..... oh my god... the worst place in the game by far. The Great crystal felt like a chore compared to this. Giruvegan was fucking annoying but this is just the top... okay wait I did not say Pharos yet. Those endless guards coming at you were harder to defeat than Cid. I had such a hard time getting to Cid but one time I hit the elevator to Cid with Ashe having only 1 hp left. I was so happy to see the save crystal. Cid actually fell down to me and I was under leveled.

THE PHAROS AT RIDORANA. Fuck this place and everything about it. I hated this dungeon and it was a HUGE pain in the arse. I wanted to cry playing this. Probably as much as in Babel Tower from Xenogears. IT WAS SO LONG and the enemies were super powerful. I died millions of times in the Pharos. Okay when I got to the top.... everything became easy. I loved the bridge building and how if you killed a green flame you were basically fucked.

The enemies are actually harder than the bosses in this game.

These were my major issues with the game and everything else was very smooth and fine.

I think people hate it because they say it is an MMO, they feel that the story sucks when in reality it is actually good, they feel that it is star wars.

XII > XIII by a long shot.

I loved Ashe, Balthier and Basch. They were always my main team till it was time to strike with quickenings with the other team.

 

[AuronX]

I love FFXII! Even though other FF games affected me way more emotionally, I had the most fun with XII by far. The first time I tried to play it I didn't make it past the first few hours because it seemed so overwhelmingly huge and complex, but when I gave it a go after playing a few of the older FF games that XII bases its systems upon I fell in love. The graphics are some of the best you'll ever see on a PS2, and SE put them to good use--the environments are strikingly beautiful. And HUGE. And for that, the open battle system works really, really well. Gambits take a bit of time to get your head around, but once you find a setup that works for you, they're terrific. Actually, I think the battle system is my favorite out of every FF I've played. It has all the commands of the classics and then some in a very classic-style menu, but it's so streamlined and nice that it occurs in realtime. Then there's the storyline--what's there is good, if stretched a bit thin. You can go for hours without getting more story, but I never felt like what I was doing lacked purpose, so it was ok. Even so, the characters are all pretty well developed. And don't even get me started on the script...the old english is just brilliant to listen to, I love it!

I would side with those that say Vaan is fairly pointless, though. Sure, his story might be that he's with the right people in the right time, but then why make him the main character? Or if he must be the main character, at least expound upon his feelings about what's happening around him. He could serve as great insight to the team for the players, but he doesn't. He's just a static character. But of course, FFXII is a very open game. Open enough that as soon as Ashe joins the party she can be set as your lead character and then everything makes sense story-wise. She sort of takes the story focus for the majority of the game.

Overall, it's a very solidly built game, gameplay is fantastic, graphics and environments are top notch, and the band of characters is interesting enough to spend 50-100 hours with. Definitely the greatest return to classic FF we've ever had. I sooo wish more people would see it that way, and maybe SE would make something else like it!

 

[Starships]

Not everybody hates or dislikes this game Squid. It actually has quite a strong cult- following. I think I've already explained enough why I dislike or can't stand this game already, enough times. I think that the hate for Final Fantasy XIII, Final Fantasy II and Final Fantasy VIII is so much stronger than the hate for Final Fantasy XII.

Would I rather play Final Fantasy XIII over Final Fantasy XII though ? After some thinking, I think yes. I really enjoy Hope and Sazh's character and Fang, so it would be worth playing through a rather linear and lackluster game with over dramatic acting for them alone. Final Fantasy XII has a more of a " Online Gaming " look to it, and the main character looks more lesbian than Ellen Degeneres, and she's actually a lesbian. Not to mention the big huge worlds which are easy to get lost in without a walkthrough and a very slow and tedious story that's based more on government than a main character with troubles ( Cecil, Bartz, Terra, Cloud, Squall, Zidane etc ) overcoming those troubles and the main villain and thus saving the world, which turns fans off or away from it imo.

I think that the FFXII fanbase is bigger than it looks, like the FF IX fanbase is pretty chill as I've seen and they don't really have a loud voice like the FF X or FF VII fandom. ( oh gods the FFVII fandom on youtube ) Squid I wouldn't really bother about how big or small a Final Fantasy fanbase is, because just because the Final Fantasy fandom is big, doesn't mean that the game is good or bad. It just means that, that's certain game's fanbase is loud. Look at Crisis Core, it get's tons of attention because the fandom won't shut up about things.

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[Squid]

Not everybody hates or dislikes this game Squid. It actually has quite a strong cult- following. I think I've already explained enough why I dislike or can't stand this game already, enough times. I think that the hate for Final Fantasy XIII, Final Fantasy II and Final Fantasy VIII is so much stronger than the hate for Final Fantasy XII.

Would I rather play Final Fantasy XIII over Final Fantasy XII though ? After some thinking, I think yes. I really enjoy Hope and Sazh's character and Fang, so it would be worth playing through a rather linear and lackluster game with over dramatic acting for them alone. Final Fantasy XII has a more of a " Online Gaming " look to it, and the main character looks more lesbian than Ellen Degeneres, and she's actually a lesbian. Not to mention the big huge worlds which are easy to get lost in without a walkthrough and a very slow and tedious story that's based more on government than a main character with troubles ( Cecil, Bartz, Terra, Cloud, Squall, Zidane etc ) overcoming those troubles and the main villain and thus saving the world, which turns fans off or away from it imo.

I think that the FFXII fanbase is bigger than it looks, like the FF IX fanbase is pretty chill as I've seen and they don't really have a loud voice like the FF X or FF VII fandom. ( oh gods the FFVII fandom on youtube ) Squid I wouldn't really bother about how big or small a Final Fantasy fanbase is, because just because the Final Fantasy fandom is big, doesn't mean that the game is good or bad. It just means that, that's certain game's fanbase is loud. Look at Crisis Core, it get's tons of attention because the fandom won't shut up about things.

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I'm not bothered by the fanbase. I'm playing through the game and just want to discuss it.
I got the idea that not many people liked it from a number of places. My friends who play FF games all seem to dislike FF12, the thread on this forum called "which FF game is the worst" has FF12 as the second worst after ff13 and also people always say "FF games got shit after 10" so that gave off the impression that a lot of people do not like it.

If I'm wrong then that is very pleasing to hear

 

[Linnaete]

Not to mention the big huge worlds which are easy to get lost in without a walkthrough and a very slow and tedious story that's based more on government than a main character with troubles ( Cecil, Bartz, Terra, Cloud, Squall, Zidane etc ) overcoming those troubles and the main villain and thus saving the world, which turns fans off or away from it imo.

Well, there is a main character who has to overcome "troubles". It helps if Vaan is seen as more of a supplementary main character, and Ashe as the true main protagonist. Ashe, though marred with indecision, goes through much of the game with the desire not to sue for peace - because Dalmasca was never the aggressor, so how dare anyone suggest to her that she must sue for peace as Queen?! - and the Occuria take advantage of that to slowly manipulate her into an ideal historical figure. They tell her to cut a shard from the Sun Cryst and lay waste to Archadia, and part of her REALLY REALLY REALLY wants to do that.

She doesn't straight up declare that she wants to unleash a weapon of mass destruction on Archadia, and continues to be indecisive, but if unchecked, that part of her could have led to the Occurians actually winning. Ashe would be a mass murderer, and ultimately, a puppet Dynast...Queen(?) to them. It's thanks to a combination of Vaan also realising that revenge is futile and would not fix anything, and Reddas' regret that he accidentally destroyed an entire kingdom so thoroughly that it's a zombie wasteland, that Ashe contains that vengeful, genocidal part of her and gives the middle finger to her manipulators.

EDIT: And no, FFXII's story is not about "government". It's not Yes Minister or Yes Prime Minister. We're not witnessing the thrilling tale of how Vayne is bickering with Dr. Cid's Department of Mad Science over the specifics of a national budget or what sort of legislative approach to Archadian welfare to take.

But other than that, you've hit the nail when it comes to why many gamers don't enjoy the style of storytelling that FFXII employs. After all, the Final Fantasy franchise and the JRPG genre aren't used to this. A player who has grown with the standard setup of main characters confronting an iconic and badass villain who wants to destroy the world will likely be thrown off by a story featuring a world that is far largely than it is. Of course people will be left unsatisfied at the end of FFXII when they ask themselves: "What?! All I did was stop a war that wasn't even threatening the WHOLE world? That was it?! Lame!". I can understand why people (especially anime fans) are put off by the lack of overt personal drama going on.

I personally find it very refreshing that Ivalice is far larger than the scope of FFXII's plot. I find it refreshing that we're not going around unequivocally saving the whole damn world. I find it refreshing that FFXII's plot is more contained and looking at the map of Ivalice, somewhat localised than conventional JRPG plots. Even if the game isn't very good at giving you the impression nor the inspiration to sit down at the end and contemplate it, your main characters by sticking it to both Vayne and the Occuria, have changed the fate of Ivalice, for good or bad.

 

[Tyler Breeze]

I love this game personally. I remember being so excited when Dad got it for me. My initial attraction to it was how everything looked so.... Not modern, which is what FFIX was, and I was wanting to play another game like FFIX. The story let me down like all hell, but the best thing was no doubt the gameplay. I'm telling you I could probably do battle in FFXII all day and not get bored. It was just awesome in everyway. The story was disappointing, but the battle system more than made up for that IMO. So I love this game.

 

[Jdeadevil]

I'm going to agree with everyone who said they loved it, not just on this thread, but on the Internet in general. The game-play was really good in this, it was different but I did like it. There is so much to do and so much content in the game, and in my opinion that was the best thing about this game. Completing the story is actually just a fraction of the game, because even some of the locations were preserved for the extra side-quests. It does make me sad how it seems XII is hated by the majority, because it really is a great game.

I can't remember any specific details because it has been a while, but Square could do with pulling elements from this game more for the future Final Fantasy games. I didn't mind XIII, it was a good attempt at bringing the game into this generation, but it was too simplistic compared to the previous innovations previous games brought, and XIII-2 just brought it down even further.

So XII brought a lot of inspiration to the series as-well as keep the classic elements of previous games.

 

[.Mosh]

For me I remember pre-judging the game on video reviews and mainly the overall design and gameplay changes they had brought into the game. After several years after the game had been released, I thought I would buy it and give it a shot considering I didn't really pay that much for it. The game itself was really good and I had enjoyed it from beginning to end, my only gripe is that the story lacked a lot compared to past FF titles. The characters weren't as interesting in my views and there were other smaller design flaws.

But the battle system and the general amount of stuff to do made it a hell of a good time in my eyes...heck I even beat Yiazmat which I felt was an accomplishment for me..

Overall I don't know why people don't like it but then again I do like FFXIII and FFXIII-2 but I still found this to be a great game.

 

[Cloud Shaker]

I really don't understand alot of the hate this game gets to. I picked it up shortly after it came out and could'nt have been happier with it. The way the story is more about to entire world and not just about the main cast is awesome to me! It makes what your doing in that world alot more rewarding. And the combat can be really deep too. I can't stand it when people just think the game plays for you. It takes alot of thinking to set up your gambets just right for a boss or doungen. Final Fantasy XII remains one of my favorites to this day.

 

[Razberry Knight]

Well, there is a main character who has to overcome "troubles". It helps if Vaan is seen as more of a supplementary main character, and Ashe as the true main protagonist. Ashe, though marred with indecision, goes through much of the game with the desire not to sue for peace - because Dalmasca was never the aggressor, so how dare anyone suggest to her that she must sue for peace as Queen?! - and the Occuria take advantage of that to slowly manipulate her into an ideal historical figure. They tell her to cut a shard from the Sun Cryst and lay waste to Archadia, and part of her REALLY REALLY REALLY wants to do that.

She doesn't straight up declare that she wants to unleash a weapon of mass destruction on Archadia, and continues to be indecisive, but if unchecked, that part of her could have led to the Occurians actually winning. Ashe would be a mass murderer, and ultimately, a puppet Dynast...Queen(?) to them. It's thanks to a combination of Vaan also realising that revenge is futile and would not fix anything, and Reddas' regret that he accidentally destroyed an entire kingdom so thoroughly that it's a zombie wasteland, that Ashe contains that vengeful, genocidal part of her and gives the middle finger to her manipulators.

EDIT: And no, FFXII's story is not about "government". It's not Yes Minister or Yes Prime Minister. We're not witnessing the thrilling tale of how Vayne is bickering with Dr. Cid's Department of Mad Science over the specifics of a national budget or what sort of legislative approach to Archadian welfare to take.

But other than that, you've hit the nail when it comes to why many gamers don't enjoy the style of storytelling that FFXII employs. After all, the Final Fantasy franchise and the JRPG genre aren't used to this. A player who has grown with the standard setup of main characters confronting an iconic and badass villain who wants to destroy the world will likely be thrown off by a story featuring a world that is far largely than it is. Of course people will be left unsatisfied at the end of FFXII when they ask themselves: "What?! All I did was stop a war that wasn't even threatening the WHOLE world? That was it?! Lame!". I can understand why people (especially anime fans) are put off by the lack of overt personal drama going on.

I personally find it very refreshing that Ivalice is far larger than the scope of FFXII's plot. I find it refreshing that we're not going around unequivocally saving the whole damn world. I find it refreshing that FFXII's plot is more contained and looking at the map of Ivalice, somewhat localised than conventional JRPG plots. Even if the game isn't very good at giving you the impression nor the inspiration to sit down at the end and contemplate it, your main characters by sticking it to both Vayne and the Occuria, have changed the fate of Ivalice, for good or bad.

When people say the story is political, im sure their referring to the antagonists motive.

 

[Starships]

@ Squid

I do believe that Final Fantasy XII is becoming more well-liked and loved by fans, because fans are starting to realize it's good points and I think that Final Fantasy XIII is actually helping Final Fantasy XII's case, because all of Final Fantasy XIII's flaws is making Final Fantasy XII look like gold. Okay it may have big worlds, but at least it has worlds. It may have a annoying main lead but at least he's not a abusive pink-haired Cloud wannabe. It may have a more of a online based battle system, but at least it's more intelligent and creative than Final Fantasy XIII's " press X " battle system, basically.

Also we are growing up and we are all starting to mature. Those who were young during Final Fantasy VII's release are about 25- 27 years old now, and those who were young during Final Fantasy X's release are 18- 23 years old. Final Fantasy XII does have a more mature storyline, and it's becoming more attractive it our growing tastes.

Though there is always those who, like me whom will always most likely always despise Final Fantasy XII. I hate the big world that you need a walkthrough for and dry battle system and dry storyline. You don't have to let the computer go auto on Final Fantasy XIII, Lightning is actually a proper main character and she doesn't fade away into the background while others take the spotlight. And yeah it is linear, but at least you never get lost, you don't need a walkthrough on where it go. Unlike FFXII it's very user-friendly on a positive note. Unlike on FFXII I spend about 30 minutes trying to find some stupid bar, while if I was playing say FFIX or FF VII I could of been progressing so much faster. I did try and be un-biased on this, instead of heading into just a " I hate FFXII rant "

Also I really dislike The Star Wars movies and FFXII being familiar to those movies doesn't help anything. FF XII fans may go " It's nothing like Star Wars " ! But I really have to disagree. Also it's less fun and entertaining than the other Final Fantasy games. Look at FF V for a example, it's so much fun and even has silly jokes like " Holy Christmas " ! to make it more bright and fun. Final Fantasy XII is just..... paint drying....
Final Fantasy XII has a horrible balance of light and dark themes and balance, it's just a bore.

Also the truth that everybody's tastes are different and Final Fantasy games are no different to this, I swear that you've said that you hate Final Fantasy VIII; Final Fantasy VIII is on my top 5 really good Final Fantasy games. One person's trash is another person's treasure.

 

[Razberry Knight]

@ SquidI do believe that Final Fantasy XII is becoming more well-liked and loved by fans, because fans are starting to realize it's good points and I think that Final Fantasy XIII is actually helping Final Fantasy XII's case, because all of Final Fantasy XIII's flaws is making Final Fantasy XII look like gold. Okay it may have big worlds, but at least it has worlds. It may have a annoying main lead but at least he's not a abusive pink-haired Cloud wannabe. It may have a more of a online based battle system, but at least it's more intelligent and creative than Final Fantasy XIII's " press X " battle system, basically. Also we are growing up and we are all starting to mature. Those who were young during Final Fantasy VII's release are about 25- 27 years old now, and those who were young during Final Fantasy X's release are 18- 23 years old. Final Fantasy XII does have a more mature storyline, and it's becoming more attractive it our growing tastes. Though there is always those who, like me whom will always most likely always despise Final Fantasy XII. I hate the big world that you need a walkthrough for and dry battle system and dry storyline. You don't have to let the computer go auto on Final Fantasy XIII, Lightning is actually a proper main character and she doesn't fade away into the background while others take the spotlight. And yeah it is linear, but at least you never get lost, you don't need a walkthrough on where it go. Unlike FFXII it's very user-friendly on a positive note. Unlike on FFXII I spend about 30 minutes trying to find some stupid bar, while if I was playing say FFIX or FF VII I could of been progressing so much faster. I did try and be un-biased on this, instead of heading into just a " I hate FFXII rant "Also I really dislike The Star Wars movies and FFXII being familiar to those movies doesn't help anything. FF XII fans may go " It's nothing like Star Wars " ! But I really have to disagree. Also it's less fun and entertaining than the other Final Fantasy games. Look at FF V for a example, it's so much fun and even has silly jokes like " Holy Christmas " ! to make it more bright and fun. Final Fantasy XII is just..... paint drying....Final Fantasy XII has a horrible balance of light and dark themes and balance, it's just a bore.Also the truth that everybody's tastes are different and Final Fantasy games are no different to this, I swear that you've said that you hate Final Fantasy VIII; Final Fantasy VIII is on my top 5 really good Final Fantasy games. One person's trash is another person's treasure.

You cant hate XII for being complex, when has any gamer played an RPG and not look up a walkthrough or guide? At some point, we will get lost. You cant praise XIII for offering nothing of self exploration and deduction. Thats its fatal flaw.Not only that but ANYONE can compare any ff game to star wars. If many people disagree with you, its probably the fact that theres nothing in XII that has those star wars staples. So Balthier can be compared to han solo and Ashe to Leia. Its not like SE never took inspiration from star wars. Play Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep and you start to see a whole confetti of star wars. Keyblades are lightsabers, Xehanort is sith lord, Terra is anakin, Eraqus is Obi wan Kenobi, Kingdom Hearts is the death star. It was even featured in gameinformer. But guess what? Its not a bad thing. If you think hard on the differences, it wont affect much.On another note, you dont have to use auto battle, but its not the same from gambit system being optional. Gambit system is customizable and affects significantly. XIII has a small number attacks (even between paradigms) so basically auto battle in XIII is the same as playing the darn thing only with no button pressing.On the rest...i can understand the mixture of dark and light story telling. Still a solid game to me compared to XIII.

 

[Starships]

You cant hate XII for being complex, when has any gamer played an RPG and not look up a walkthrough or guide?

Many people 'm sure. But usually it's just for one small boss or dungeon puzzle, not almost the whole friggin thing.

At some point, we will get lost. You cant praise XIII for offering nothing of self exploration and deduction. Thats its fatal flaw.Not only that but ANYONE can compare any ff game to star wars.

Yeah for like minutes and then you find the way to go. Half-a -hour to find one small bar thing is stupid I'm sorry. I shouldn't need a walkthrough to find a bar that in other Final Fantasy games you can usually find in one step almost. It drove in my head six-ish years ago.

Okay, compare FFIX to Star Wars.

Its not like SE never took inspiration from star wars.

Yes as I've said before that Square are huge fanboys of the Star Wars series, but usually they usually add a touch of salt of Star Wars into the Final Fantasy mixture; not the whole cake. The feeling and emotion of Final Fantasy XII is Star Wars like to me. Personal view.

But guess what? Its not a bad thing. If you think hard on the differences, it wont affect much.On another note, you dont have to use auto battle, but its not the same from gambit system being optional. Gambit system is customizable and affects significantly. XIII has a small number attacks (even between paradigms) so basically auto battle in XIII is the same as playing the darn thing only with no button pressing.

Still not going to make me enjoy FF XII.

Still a solid game to me compared to XIII.

Nice. Good for you. As I said before to Squid, it's all down to personal taste. I don't mean that Final Fantasy XIII is a masterpiece, I just barely hold it over Final Fantasy XII, but I do prefer it over Final Fantasy XII because of characters like Hope and Sazh, that's all.

 

[Razberry Knight]

Many people 'm sure. But usually it's just for one small boss or dungeon puzzle, not almost the whole friggin thing.

I didnt need a walkthrough for every bit, and even then there are games out there that are complex and actually require a walkthrough 40% of the time unless you play over 70 hours of gameplay for trial and error. But finding a location even for XII isnt the worst thing ever.

Yeah for like minutes and then you find the way to go. Half-a -hour to find one small bar thing is stupid I'm sorry. I shouldn't need a walkthrough to find a bar that in other Final Fantasy games you can usually find in one step almost. It drove in my head six-ish years ago.

Back when i was a kid, kingdom hearts ticked me off for the most puzzling worlds i ever saw. But playing it now, its a breeze. Maybe u were to young at the time. 6 years is a lot.Okay, compare FFIX to Star Wars.Why bother? The only thing going for star wars was young hero ending up being part of something he didnt know until later. Which isnt original to star wars.

Yes as I've said before that Square are huge fanboys of the Star Wars series, but usually they usually add a touch of salt of Star Wars into the Final Fantasy mixture; not the whole cake. The feeling and emotion of Final Fantasy XII is Star Wars like to me. Personal view.

Yeah, but it looks like you want to stick with it for the sake of not liking it. Not because theres no other way. What makes it so close to star wars????? If ppl disagree...its probably because youre not comparing it to star wrs. Its like me hating ffs because their plots are too similar to zelda.

Still not going to make me enjoy FF XII.

From ur comment it looks like u never even gave it a chance.

Nice. Good for you. As I said before to Squid, it's all down to personal taste. I don't mean that Final Fantasy XIII is a masterpiece, I just barely hold it over Final Fantasy XII, but I do prefer it over Final Fantasy XII because of characters like Hope and Sazh, that's all.

Normally i would agree but in this situation, i cant take you seriously. It doesnt look like you gave it a chance. And from the sound of it, you never actually played other RPGs. Because the finding a bar is nothing. Many RPGs out there ask similar things and without hints. I also like hope, and Sahz to a degree. But even then those characters werent properly fleshed out. I think we can all agree when it comes to RPGs and an FF title, 12 is at a higher light, and om saying that with personal tastes aside.

 

[Starships]

I didnt need a walkthrough for every bit

Back when i was a kid, kingdom hearts ticked me off for the most puzzling worlds i ever saw. But playing it now, its a breeze.

You were a child back then.

Maybe u were to young at the time.

Maybe, but the story of FF XII and the characters and the Shakespearean way that they speak drives me to sleep to this day.

.Why bother? The only thing going for star wars was young hero ending up being part of something he didnt know until later.

You just said that you could basically make out any Final Fantasy to be like Star Wars so you should be able to easily tell me how much FF9 is so much like Star Wars. I sense back cycling out of this. You could've of at least maybe mentioned that Garland looks like Vader, or something.

If ppl disagree...its probably because youre not comparing it to star wrs. Its like me hating ffs because their plots are too similar to zelda.

Final Fantasy is nothing like Zelda. Zelda is a adventure game based on a Princess named Zelda and Link adventuring to save her. What ? I don't understand this, can you word this a bit better ?

From ur comment it looks like u never even gave it a chance

I've given FFXII at least six- seven chances.

i cant take you seriously.

Whatever. By the way it's " I can't take you seriously ".

And from the sound of it, you never actually played other RPGs.

I've played and completed Final Fantasy II, Final Fantasy IV x3, Final Fantasy V, Final Fantasy VI x2, Final Fantasy VII x 16, Final Fantasy IX x8, Final Fantasy X x3, Final Fantasy X-2, Final Fantasy XIII-2. Chrono Trigger x 5, Kingdom Hearts x 3, Kingdom Hearts II, x 2 Dragon Quest V, Dragon Quest IX, Final Fantasy IV- After Years, Eternal Sonata, Earthbound, Mother 3, Secret of Mana, and Persona 4.

I've yet to complete Final Fantasy I, Final Fantasy III NES and DS versions, Final Fantasy XIII, Terrangima, and Super Mario RPG.

You were saying ?

I also like hope, and Sahz to a degree. But even then those characters werent properly fleshed out.

And Vaan was ? And Penelo ? I don't think so.

I think we can all agree when it comes to RPGs and an FF title, 12 is at a higher light

All agree ? Yeah no, you're blind if you don't think that there is more FFXII Haters like me out there. This screams of biased. Not EVERYBODY loves the same thing.

 

[Razberry Knight]

You were a child back then.



Maybe, but the story of FF XII and the characters and the Shakespearean way that they speak drives me to sleep to this day.

I can respect that. But that is really upto taste. Not whether its good or bad.
And extremely hipocritical to remind me i was a child (early teens at best) and not deny you were one too.

You just said that you could basically make out any Final Fantasy to be like Star Wars so you should be able to easily tell me how much FF9 is so much like Star Wars. I sense back cycling out of this. You could've of at least maybe mentioned that Garland looks like Vader, or something.

Im saying star wars has very basic iconic aspects. To compare a series off of star wars would need a death star like weapon which weak spot is a tiny hole, some form of light sabers, some form of darth vader, some form of "i am your father" plot twist and incredibly heavy sci fi themes that involve space.

Final Fantasy is nothing like Zelda. Zelda is a adventure game based on a Princess named Zelda and Link adventuring to save her. What ? I don't understand this, can you word this a bit better ?

Its a hypothetical situation to compare your actual situation. Of course ff isnt like zelda. U proved my point.
Because the things both FF and LoZ have in common are not really iconic to LoZ. Same with ff12-star wars.

I've given FFXII at least six- seven chances.

Still cant find that bar? I was never an akira Toriyama fan. And chrono trigger was mainly my biggest issue because for a while i was stuck on the fair. And refused a walkthrough. So yeah spoiled myself. Theres a difference between giving it a chance and not even trying to give it a chance. Youve dodge alot of questions and only reply on what you think youve stumped me on.

Whatever. By the way it's " I can't take you seriously ".

i could care less. I will say "cant". Its a stupid thing to do when people make arguments about typos. Im doing it all on smartphone.

I've played and completed Final Fantasy II, Final Fantasy IV x3, Final Fantasy V, Final Fantasy VI x2, Final Fantasy VII x 16, Final Fantasy IX x8, Final Fantasy X x3, Final Fantasy X-2, Final Fantasy XIII-2. Chrono Trigger x 5, Kingdom Hearts x 3, Kingdom Hearts II, x 2 Dragon Quest V, Dragon Quest IX, Final Fantasy IV- After Years, Eternal Sonata, Earthbound, Mother 3, Secret of Mana, and Persona 4.

I've yet to complete Final Fantasy I, Final Fantasy III NES and DS versions, Final Fantasy XIII, Terrangima, and Super Mario RPG.

You were saying ?

If you dont hate ff1, you shouldnt hate ff12 as much when it comes to getting lost. But mostly FFs and DQ. If you play most of the non critically acclaimed ones, youll see, getting lost is quite common.
Such as Star ocean for one. Mario RPG, most of the SE games such FF,DQ,KH are cakewalks. So experiencing a game like 12 is new to you, i assure you, it isnt. Hating XII also means hating a third of JRPGs out there. You seem to play mainly SE and the few nintendo offers.

And Vaan was ? And Penelo ? I don't think so.

Ofcourse an ff12 hater is going to use those two. But Vaan and Penelo never had incredibly dark times nearly the first five chapters and then suddenly have a change of heart unlike Hope and Lightning. Vaan especially isnt the type of character to be the main focus. Its been said hundreds of times. Accept that Vaan isnt a central character. In fact Vaan is a character device used in most shonen mangas.

All agree ? Yeah no, you're blind if you don't think that there is more FFXII Haters like me out there. This screams of biased. Not EVERYBODY loves the same thing.

Like i said, regardless of taste. Maybe if it was against hardcore RPGers to noobs, maybe XIII could pass. But even then it was practically an escalator ride. I even suspect people can beat the game without upgrading weapons.

Ff12 offered more in general as a game compared to 13. As a game, its on much higher light. If it was a movie it would be apples and oranges. But its not. More customization/optimization, freedom to explore, which also means freedom to experience the world first hand. If someone were to compare the two and know nothing of FF and didnt mind playing last gen, they would choose XII. Why? Because it offers more. Thats why i said tastes aside.

I dont deny 12haters exist. But most of what they hate are personal tastes over integral issues that makes them say "this is the worst game no matter what kind of person you are" except for noobs, because they have no experience whatsoever. Kind of like playing kh1 over kh2.

 

[Shaissa]

I think That people originally pick up the game and hate it for a few reasons, one In all the earlier Final Fantasy games (minus XI obviously), I feel like the games were more certain around the characters plight to save the world, and it usually starts out being very small.

Few examples, In Final Fantasy VI, you are just trying to free countries from the Empire control, in Final Fantasy VII you are trying to stop Shinra from using Mako energy, in FFVIII you are stopping Edea from gaining power. Then the story gets bigger and you find out there is more than just the small things you have to do to save the world.

FVII Stop Sephiroth from using Meteo, then have to get rid of him so that Holy can try and stop Meteo. In VIII it becomes more of stopping a sorceress from the future. etc etc.

I feel like in FFXII the whole story is almost thrown at you all at once, sure it does get a little more expansive as you continue, but your goal is always the same, it never once changed, Free Dalmasca from the Empire's control. Not once does it become anything more, and not once do you have any other real villains other than Vayne and Cid, and the Empire.


Next point I think people got turned off by this was the famous Gambit system. Some argue that All you had to do was get the gambit system set up the way you wanted too then you could put the controller down and walk away. I personally don't know if this is true, I always told my people what to do for the most part, I did have the Gambit system on for mostly healing purposes and for attacking the small creatures, not the bosses. One could argue that, but that is if you set it up just right, and really if people did that, it was in their taste then, it was never forced to do it that way.


Third I always here is the characters. Almost anyone that hates this game attacks Vaan, Saying he is no good, he was just thrown in (and really this is true, he did get thrown into the game later than most of the characters.) In the end I guess the character is all personal taste.

Finally I think people didn't like the "MMORPG Feel it had" with monsters on the field and you controlling one person basically, again this goes back to the gambit system.

Personally, when I first did put the game in, it did get some getting use to. In the last installments few installments (from IV-X-2) You could simply just buy the equipment you wanted and you learned magic naturally, (or in some cases like VIII you draw the magic, X you just need the sphere grid to learn magic, etc.) in XII it went back to what I and II did where you buy the magic, and also XII added the whole Gambit bit too it, where you had to know the Gambit also in order for your character to use.

I felt almost lost right away and stopped playing after a week, but I never sold it. It took about... 2-3 months, after I beat most of my other PS2 games, for me to pick it back up and start over. Knowing what I was getting into I slowly did end up enjoying it, (even though I still didn't like Vaan being 'the lead' character.) I just think that the hate just starts with it being one of the more expansive FF games out there (as far as the main series is concern) there was little to no love story like from the past(IV-X), No more did the story centeralize only on how your chacters, it became more open to make the game a lot more "political" feel to it. It took away Random battles and entered into a whole new feel to the game. All this did get some getting use to out of Final Fantasy series.

In the end I fell in love with the game, it was a very bold step for Square-Enix to take for the Final Fantasy series. Gave the series a whole new light on the JRPG franchise, and I feel like it was something they felt like they had to do, to slowly move away from just the typical "love story, save the whole world" plot of past Final Fantasy games.

Now to comment on some peoples posts.

Firstly @Radioactive

You know you just had to check out your map and they basically told you where to go right? Other than that I don't really understand how you got lost unless it was being stuck on a boss or something...

Secondly, I feel like you did give the game a fair chance after chance, you just can't get into it, which I can see why. Also I can see how if you prefer XIII over XII I see how you can do it (even if it is just barely.) It does basically come down to personal taste in what you focus more on in games.

 

[Razberry Knight]

Meh. Devils advocate i say. When you look at XIIIand you look at XII nuetrally, you see both for what they really are. And Radioactive, although i dont care if he hates it or loves it. But didnt really give fair review on certain aspects. The star wars comparison (quite common among haters) always comes up but in crunch time no one actually explains why its so similar other than Balthier = han solo, Gabranth = Vader and Ashe = Leiah. I mean those are small (and hundreds of games out there have a vader, han, and leiah type. Its not really star wars inspired theme). The getting lost deal also threw me off.Radioactive said it himself. When you play XIII you see what XII actually has to offer that makes it seem like god (though in my honest opinion its just a decent story with great gameplay). Thats why i said tastes aside, one actually is better quality.

 

[Starships]

Radioactive said it himself

Fuck.

For the millionth time internet I AM A FEMALE. I HAVE BOOBS. I swear in the last three years I've been here I've said at least six times that I'm not a male. I even spend ages using PINK writing.

@ Raz Nice, that's cool. You like FF XII. That's fine. You keep on loving; but I don't and I believe that even FF XIII yes, the one that's infamous for being believed as the " Worst Final Fantasy ever " is ten times better than FF XII. But that's my opinion, and I'm a girl. Thanks, I hope that you can respect that as I respect your opinion that you like FF XII. If in your opinion FF XII is a awesome-sauce game, then sweet- as bro, I don't.

But just because I don't like FF XII doesn't mean that I haven't given the game a fair chance, or that I'm worthless.