[31/03] Toriyama: Final Fantasy leading ladies’ looks come second

[Gingerbread Lesbian]

Final Fantasy XIII director Motomu Toriyama says Square Enix’s female character design process starts with personality, not looks.

“With Yuna from Final Fantasy X, we started with the back story of a summoner that fights against Sin,” Toriyama told Famitsu, via 1UP.

“But for Lightning in FFXIII, our initial concept was just for a ‘strong woman’ — it was personality-based instead of plot-driven.

“Then we consider the heroine’s ‘job,’ her position in the story and duties in battle. … Since there are so many games in the series, it’s always a trial to ensure that new characters don’t overlap with previous ones.”

Only after the character’s mindset and role are locked down does Square Enix turn to current character designer, Tetsuya Nomura, to find out how its newest leading lady looks.

“Once the character’s concept starts to take form, we write out her basic personality traits and so forth on a sheet of paper and give it to Nomura,” the director explained.

“With Lightning, one look at the design made me say ‘This is it!’ She looked so cool and strong that there was no need for any retakes. It was the same way with Yuna.”

After that, the team begin exploring the character’s history and tidying up the overall plot to avoid inconsistencies, before moving on to the two aspects which probably feel most immediate to many players: motion capture and voice acting.

“”When portraying a character, we take extreme care in her movements and voice,” Toriyama said.

“This begins with the motion-capture process, something that will make everything go wrong if we mess it up, so we get very intricate with our directions for that.

“The voice acting comes last in this process … The voice we record essentially becomes the main image of the character, so in a way that’s the most delicate part of making the character.”

Source: VG247

 

[Steve-O]

hmm this is intresting learning a bit on how yuna and lighting were created XD

 

[Hatifnatten]

I like how they still trying to sell Lightning as main heroin in FF13, even thought she has absolutely no priority in the plot or in the game itself.

 

[Valvalis]

I'm not really sure if I buy this, tbh. They have yet to make an unattractive, old, or overweight leading lady character, and there are plenty of plot possibilities for which those characteristics would be completely acceptable/relevant. They can deny it all they want, but they simply make the characters look how they think they will sell the best There's no reason why they can't have a "strong heroine" who's 50 and looks like somebody's mom. (and I don't mean a milf) And even if an out-of-shape or physically weak woman seems like a bad choice for an adventurer---what about Dagger and Yuna? They weren't all that strong physically. Mages and summoners could come in pretty much any shape, age, and size because they don't need fit bodies to cast spells.

Also,

Since there are so many games in the series, it’s always a trial to ensure that new characters don’t overlap with previous ones.”

Um...if they're having trouble coming up with original ideas, why not just hire some new team members? I'm sure there are a ton of people out there with great ideas in their heads who would love to work for SE. Use them as concept consultants or something, but don't use repeats of the same characters when it's such a huge series and the world is watching you, because eventually more and more people are going to catch on to it

 

[Martel]

This is really sad, considering Lightning has absolutely nothing in the way of a personality AND she looks like Cloud, only with pink hair. Trust Toriyama to say something like this

 

[L]

its square enix, what else did you expect

my personal favorite was "hi im yoichi wada, the president of square enix. we sold you an incomplete pile of rubbish at full price and we're not handing out refunds. suck on that!" Well, that's not what he said - but thats the gist of it

 

[Rey]

They can not make a Final Fantasy lady who is not attractive. So far every FF lady has been attractive. If they want to go for a non attractive lady It would change the way FF is. I do not know but It does look like the looks go first here. I wonder how they did this with X-2 .

 

[The Witch]

Pretty neat-o information here. I like this sort of behind the scene type interview of how it's all done.

 

[Nocturne]

geez, bitching even at this. They didnt say they didnt take looks into account, just that when they develop new characters they start from their personality and BUILD what they look like afterwards. Just because they make a character look attractive, doesnt mean thats what they decided from the beginning.

I cant think of ONE game where you played as an unattractive female character. Even Gears of War, an apocalyptic setting puts a female in it that looks like she just fixed her hair and put her make up on.

As Ive stated before, why even play the games if you complain about EVERYTHING SE does.

 

[Linnaete]

They can not make a Final Fantasy lady who is not attractive. So far every FF lady has been attractive. If they want to go for a non attractive lady It would change the way FF is.

Cannot?

I don't see why every female character has to be aesthetically pleasing in a Final Fantasy game. In FFIX you have a lot of characters that aren't human - Freya for example - and arguably you can say that she may not be one of the most attractive FF characters there is, yet she's there and the closest playable female character I can think of. FFIX did that and it hardly changed much there. I for one welcome a female character who isn't immediately pretty and something typical for its primary audience like Tifa is.

 

[Rey]

Cannot?

I don't see why every female character has to be aesthetically pleasing in a Final Fantasy game. In FFIX you have a lot of characters that aren't human - Freya for example - and arguably you can say that she may not be one of the most attractive FF characters there is, yet she's there and the closest playable female character I can think of. FFIX did that and it hardly changed much there. I for one welcome a female character who isn't immediately pretty and something typical for its primary audience like Tifa is.

I never did say that I never did welcome an unattractive FF female in the next games. I think the whole point of my post was that if they started doing it now.. how would FF be? Yes it can have the IX way. I would welcome that. Sorry if my wording was confusing.

 

[Sultan]

I'm not really sure if I buy this, tbh. They have yet to make an unattractive, old, or overweight leading lady character, and there are plenty of plot possibilities for which those characteristics would be completely acceptable/relevant. They can deny it all they want, but they simply make the characters look how they think they will sell the best There's no reason why they can't have a "strong heroine" who's 50 and looks like somebody's mom. (and I don't mean a milf) And even if an out-of-shape or physically weak woman seems like a bad choice for an adventurer---what about Dagger and Yuna? They weren't all that strong physically. Mages and summoners could come in pretty much any shape, age, and size because they don't need fit bodies to cast spells.

Also,

I agree, I think the last woman I recall with any of those characteristics was Wynn from Dragon Age: Origins. And she was a well thought out character.

Concerning the Mage's age however, it is more sensible that they're in a believable age where an individual has mastered the arts and is capable of using their powers. In fact, any character that engages in deadly combat should be at a believable age, that's why I cringe whenever I see some teenage twit at my side in battle, which is all the goddamn time. What the hell do they think this is, the Dark Ages? As for the physique, it would make sense that they'd be fit, after all the mind and body complement each other. I'm pretty sure dodging and running would prove useful to a mage when all else fails.

Um...if they're having trouble coming up with original ideas, why not just hire some new team members? I'm sure there are a ton of people out there with great ideas in their heads who would love to work for SE. Use them as concept consultants or something, but don't use repeats of the same characters when it's such a huge series and the world is watching you, because eventually more and more people are going to catch on to it

Yeah, not only do their characters overlap in terms of role and archetype but also in design. Which Toriyama mentioned word for word, they wanted Lightning's appearance to be like Cloud only not so "feminine" which by the way is probably one of the funniest things I've heard a developer say.

The approach they're taking to making a character is just wrong.

“But for Lightning in FFXIII, our initial concept was just for a ‘strong woman’ — it was personality-based instead of plot-driven.

That's the problem. They're using a bloody archetype, again, again, again, again. Nevermind the cultural differences, I'm not bashing on him for having to use the term "Strong Woman" which some women could find condescending for many reasons. It's hilarious to me how they think they're doing this thing right and think we're nodding to this in approval. You can't just pull out a two worded description and build your character off of that. It just doesn't work. That's the stock formula for a flat and uninteresting character. They should instead put more effort in considering the characters background, origin, past and social status first-most then gradually add the desired traits as the plot progresses in the early stages of writing the story.

In my opinion, gender and name should come last, unless the character's gender is relevant to the plot from the get go. Such in the sense that I would write a setting where there's an epidemic that affects only men, so I want my character's main struggle is finding a cure for himself, because he's infected with said disease. In turn I will make him male. Or I could make a female protagonist who's main struggle is saving a male character that has a significance to her. Another example is writing an Iraqi mother struggling to find safe haven through the streets of Fallujah protecting her children in the absence of the father. It would make sense to make her female since motherhood is an attribute exclusive to females and it's known that Iraqi men are usually the ones who bare arms. However in a setting that doesn't dictate what gender does what, gender shouldn't really matter that much aside from the fact that it's intuitively relatable to the audience. Suppose I include a romance sub plot, it shouldn't matter what either party's genders are, I could still have personality traits, emotion and romantic gestures that are both believable and consistent. Gender shouldn't dictate who makes the first move or who asks to marry etc etc. We should be past the stage of following conventions. Again it depends on the setting, but a fantastical Sci-Fi setting like XIII's is an ideal setting for what I mentioned earlier. Actually it's funny how the developers themselves had little to no problem switching Fang's sex when she was originally male.

As for the design, Nomura can be unoriginal and repetitive. If you look at Sora in KH2, he's a blatant fusion of Sion from The Bouncer and Cloud strife. Snow is sporting that Seifer coat like nobody's business and Auron is your typical aged Samurai. I already drew references of other characters like him in another thread, I don't have to do it again. He occasionally designs a character that looks real, so I do give him kudos to designing Szas (however you spell that. And the majority of the characters in Versus XIII.

 

[Chel'cie]

I'm not seeing any Lulu in this thread. Come on, guys.
Anyhoo, saying Lightning is a female clone of him is just absurd. Both have similarities (PHYSICAL DESIGN) but Jesus, Light's more masculine than Cloud.

 

[Stoic Hero]

I don't see how this even matters, or why he said it. It's a losing battle to defend this stance, because:

If he's saying looks don't matter, then how come he's never created an ugly heroine?

If he's saying looks matter, but they're secondary to the character's background, then...okay...? That's good to know?

There isn't anything enlightening about it.

Although, honestly, I think the article is misrepresenting what he's saying. Or, rather, it's taking out of context what he's saying about the looks. I don't think he meant to say that "looks are secondary to personality" or "looks don't matter" I think he just meant that he tries to base looks off of the personality traits he gives the characters. Which is cool.

 

[10th Doctor]

(I loved Light's design)

Personally, I think it's time from Nomura to step down from his throne. Get someone else in there, with fresh ideas, you know? Or a team, even. And "strong woman?"

Strong woman wear mini-skirts?

 

[Terra Branford]

I don't see this as news they had to share with us. xD
Maybe if they spent more time on her character than she wouldn't have turned out the way she did....

I agree with Tom Kaulitz. Time for Nomura to step down, he has run out of ideas. Someone new and fresh should take over.

 

[L]

As Ive stated before, why even play the games if you complain about EVERYTHING SE does.

most of us don't

the closest thing SE even has to Final Fantasy anymore is Kingdom Hearts, and that's because it's coasted off the popularity of Final Fantasy characters for years.

i didn't finish Final Fantasy XII and I sold FFXIII after I played it for 20 hours and thought it was more boring than most PSP games.

but this is a Final Fantasy forum, fans are mad that the assholes working at Square-Enix are just spitting in our faces with the shit they are putting out. Right now they have a sequel lined up for quite possibly, the worst game I have ever played of all time, and Versus.

We've wanted them to bring the end to the Final Fantasy VII compilation for years now. I'd say decades, and I don't think A DECADE would be stretching it too much, but that sounds a little overdramatic.

But what do we get in 2000? "hey, heres more plot holes and two really horrible games (Crisis Core, DoC) you'll only play for the story." Crisis Core was at least worth playing, Dirge of Cerberus was just "oh hai im vincent, i gettin some backstory. squee for me fangirls. sus pechos son los míos!!"

But you know, why don't you go spend 60 dollars on a turd, promised that it was going to be one of the most influential effect pedals of all time, or at least worth using.

Then come back, and tell us how you feel.

They can not make a Final Fantasy lady who is not attractive.

i wanted to bang cloud before he put on a pink wig

 

[Fusionist]

I feel like the odd one out for liking FFXIII and Lightning, still enjoy Final Fantasy 10+ years after I got into, and can claim S-E is still my fave game company

Personally I loved Lightning loads, from her personality to her design. I honestly didn't see much of the so-called female-Cloud aside from some design concepts, and even then I say she has more of Squall in her than Cloud (yet still had stuff that made her, well, her)

But on the topic of creating a character's background before their design, that's great and all, but I agree that I can't recall mediocre or plain ugly heroines. I don't fault S-E for this though-every game I played that had female characters were designed to be attractive by mainstream standards. I honestly only recall this one playable character in Chrono Cross that was a...mother I think? Round, big, and could whoop ass xD

But I think they were talking more about the specific details, like how Yuna wore a hakama-skirt thing and Lightning has a more uniform look to her. Healer-Summoner and a member of an army? I think their respective designs weren't off the mark ;D

Though I have to wonder why remark on female characters in the first place-wouldn't they consider a male character background before their design as well?

 

[Contra Fates]

That article is completely false, especially if they're talking about Nomura.

I also find it a little pointless, on multiple accounts. Of course you'd draw up the personality first and the designs second - otherwise you're forcing the character into your preconceived notions of how they should act based upon their looks alone.

I also don't believe the 'idea' they're trying to pull across, because it's not true. I remember reading about how Selphie and Quistis were designed in FFVIII, and here's an excerpt of that:

When designing the characters, Nomura had wanted at least one female character to wear a skirt. Quistis was originally supposed to fill this part, but Nomura decided a long skirt worn over pants would look better. The skirt-wearing role was eventually passed to Selphie. In an interview, Nomura has mentioned he was surprised upon hearing Quistis was cast as Squall's teacher.

The above completely contradicts everything the article is saying. Nomura designed Quistis to be a 'girl in a skirt,' and didn't even know about her personality or the fact she was Squall's teacher - which is definitely not how the above article suggests the characters are designed.

I'm actually really looking forward to Versus XIII if for nothing else but some refreshing character designs. I mean - damn, there's actually some older characters in it! Granted, none of them are playable, but it's nice to see somewhat average looking elderly men about, and in what appears to be roles of importance.

Thanks to the recent games, I was beginning to think that the people in the world of Final Fantasy were like Menudo - they just disappear once they get too old.

 

[Valkyrur]

This all sounds good to me.

And I agree with Fleur totally. While I personally have to admit it's a lot more pleasing to the eye to see such pretty little things running on the screen, I do think it's a tad too unrealistic to have, like, an entire party of super handsome or pretty characters.

Working on a character based primarily on his or her background and personality traits is the way to go... Which brings me back to this article. I like the process which they used to create Lightning.