What direction should Final Fantasy take now?

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Jammie

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Hi guys, probs gonna be a long rambling post but bear with me...

Lemme start by saying im a FF noob. I played FFXIII without knowing much abt FF, apart from playing FFX a few years back. I really enjoyed the whole experience of FFXIII (although slightly tedious at times) but to my surprise when I looked online I saw very mixed views. A lot of people actually hated this game, or just found it a chore. People kept mentioning over and over abt towns and a world map and the 'legendary' FF7, and how FFXIII doesnt compare. I saw FF7 on PSN so I thought id give it a shot (yes dats right, 13 years after release!). I thought that i would hate it as it would be overhyped etc etc.

Needless to say I absolutely loved it, and I was finally seeing what everyone was talking abt with regards to NPC's, towns, linearity. Naturally after falling in love with FF7 i looked online and found an overwhelming amount of threads on a remake (yes i know im 5 years to late with these things!). Now bear with me...im not here to debate a FF7 remake. Anyway wat i found interesting about this is that Square Enix said it would take something like tens times longer to remake FF7 then it did to make FFXIII or something along those lines, because of modelling HD towns, NPCs and a world map etc etc.

Now this made me think that if they cant do all those things for a FF7 remake, that also means they obviously cant do all those things with any new FF's. Is this something they can really afford to omit from their newer games? Judging from what ive seen, after X every game has generated very mixed reviews with the fanbase, and XIII seems to be the final nail in the coffin for some fans.

From the commments ive seen from Square Enix, they dont seem to be able to handle this next gen HD thing very well. They are so hellbent on graphics they really had to limit the things dat the fanbase loved about the series. Now Versus is an interesting one as they have said there will be a world map and an airship, along with stunningly beautiful graphics. People seem very hyped about that game.

OK my ramblings boil down to this. What direction should FF take with their new games. Should they continue the story-driven linear games like XIII, should they worry less about graphics and try to fit more open world content into their games like the older FF's? Are you guys getting increasingly annoyed with the games Square Enix are putting out? Do you think they can find a good compromise between the styles of old and new? Id like to know wat everyone thinks :D

Also a question I wanna know is do you think the criticism for FFXIII is justified or do you think people are just blinded by the nostalgia of past games?
 
I think the critisism of FFXIII is mainly due to the fact it had taken so long to come out, people had already interpreted their own image of it. For most people it wasn't as they imagined it. I think people set their standards quite high, which is only right.

However, people do get excessive about it and how it's horrible, linear etc.
Anyway, i'm not here to defend FFXIII.

FF has tried many different approaches, they just weren't as different as the X-XII, and XII - XIII transitions were, we've had ATB, CTB though for most part and they worked just fine.
Since XIV, Agito, Versus and then finally (I think) KHIII are being worked on next, it'll be awhile before the next numbered FF.
For all we know the series could die out, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

They've even admitted that a lot of people were dissatisfied with XIII, so they'll probably take a different approach and maybe go back to the roots again, which would be interesting but no doubt some group of people will complain.

We'll just have to wait and see I guess, it's always better to take each new title with a pinch of salt. If they didn't change anything people would complain, if they change too much people complain still.
Look at it from their perspective.
 
If it's a choice between shiny graphics and world-building/exploration, I'd take world-building every time. But... I don't know that it's that simple in reality.

Since VII, FF has been known for its graphical prowess, but I wonder if it's really worth it for them to continue trying to be the best thing out there in that department. I feel that if it actually took them ten years to make a VII remake they must be doing something wrong. Look at VI, sure it looked good for the era, but it wasn't anything to write home about (at least, I don't think so? I wasn't exactly a gamer in 1994). It's cool and all, but FF doesn't NEED fantastic graphics per se.

On the other hand, would as many people have gotten into the series if it didn't look pretty? I don't know. Would you have picked up XIII if it didn't look great?
 
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I'd really like them to stick to a less complicated, less AI-based battle system than the one seen in XIII. I enjoyed the whole "death" theme in Final Fantasy X and the creepiness which came with it. I liked the simple romance between Snow and Serah. I also like the simpleness of games like IV and VI.
 
They have to stop making games that are basically movies...
During my run through of FF XIII all I did was run into constant battles and cut scenes that didn't mean much other then to show good graphics.
I'm all for the amazing graphics and cut scenes and fights but I NEED a story that's good and I NEED the ability to just free roam!
They need to find a good balance between graphics and story/game play but if they can't I'd rather have them more to the story/game play side.
 
Jammie said:
OK my ramblings boil down to this. What direction should FF take with their new games. Should they continue the story-driven linear games like XIII, should they worry less about graphics and try to fit more open world content into their games like the older FF's? Are you guys getting increasingly annoyed with the games Square Enix are putting out? Do you think they can find a good compromise between the styles of old and new? Id like to know wat everyone thinks :D
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The thing is, from the way I see it anyway, there's no reason why they have to take away from having a good story in order to make more appealing graphics and shiny new battle systems and whatnot. It doesn't take any extra money or materials to make a good story, all it takes is a little extra creative brain power, the ability to write good dialogue that doesn't insult the players' intelligence, and the use of believable voice actors. Hell, you can make a backstory up for a character that doesn't even show any cutscenes--all they do is talk about it to another character--and have it add a whole extra dimension of depth and/or awesomeness to that character, with minimal effort. After seeing what they did with FFXII, where I literally feel like I know more about the NPCs than the PCs, this has really been my biggest complaint with FF's more recent installments. (Personally I think it started going downhill with X, but that's another story.)

As far as the debate over linearity, IMO you can't really have both a phenomenal, compelling story and complete carte blanche over your exploration of the world in any possible sequence, if we're talking about the way the latter is done in something like MMOs sometimes :hmmm: However, there are ways in which you can *sort of* have both. The best FFs, IMO, were designed so that you had a very linear story, which essentially serves the purpose of compelling you to go from one place to another immediately for a good reason; but at the same time, if you wanted to wander around a bit on the world map and perform sidequests in between, you could do that also. It's not necessarily the more realistic path to do that, but it can certainly be fun. Games like IX, VI, VII, and VIII all have the ability to travel a bit in between story parts from time to time, and it is rather relaxing to be able to do that if you feel like you want a short break, or you feel the need to level up a bit before you move on to the next area. Whereas, when I played through X, the inability to fly an airship over the world map...well, it sucked. It was really, really inhibiting, and throughout most of the game, it was incredibly inconvenient if you wanted to travel to an area the story didn't want you to go to. And so I don't really care for THAT much linearity, because it's kind of ridiculous. As far as XIII, I haven't played it so I'm not sure which one it's more like, but if it's closer to the X side of things then SE really needs to stop doing that, because even if you like a linear story you do need some elbow room from time to time. I mean other than the lack of airship flying, the style of XII was perfectly fine as well, if they had just improved upon the airship and the story itself a bit then it would have been a really, really top-notch game. So, if they want to make more games like XII, but with airship flying and better actual story material, then I would be very happy with that :ryan: But certainly no more where you can't have a good overworld map and fly an airship :jtc: (The only reason I was okay with the map system in XII was because part of the fun was exploring the richly detailed world, and I don't know whether an overworld map in the style of say, VI, would have worked as well for such a game :hmmm:)
 
Not saying this is what steamed all the hate but I still think a lot of it is because people don't like change. Whether it's a long time parody maker, a man in a ninja suit answering a bunch of random questions, a black president or a popular video game franchise there are always going to be people who hate the changes they make and want things to stay the same. I like that companies like Square Enix are trying to branch off and try new things otherwise they get old, stale and will eventually die off.
 
They need to take a step back. I actually thought xii was a pretty good game. The battle system was a little unruly, but the other aspects of the game seemed to at least jive with the traditional ff focus. FFXIII was just an utter failure. It's the only game I haven't finished of the FFs I've played (well except the original final fantasy because I hate grinding and that game needs a ton of it).

They need to stop focusing on the "eye candy" aspect and go back to the roots of FF. A compelling story, depth to the characters, and free-exploration. FFXIII seemed like a half-assed attempt at those traditional points and too great a focus on the graphics and CGI. I mean the main character was a girl named Lightning who had the personality of a rock :/. All the other characters were pretty one-dimensional as well. Who would want to watch CGI after CGI of these characters talking about the same shit over and over again.

Sigh...
 
they need to bring ff back to the old days.... the days of ffix etc

i personally think that the new consoles have ruined the series silighty for me

the pc games have ruined it the most for me :(
 
The direction I want to see Square Enix take with Final Fantasy is a rather simple one. I want them to invest more time into creating a unique story and I want them to tell that story in a better way than they have been. I want interesting characters that I could invest in emotionally and I want to see some good character development for these characters as the game progressed. The only disappointing aspect of Final Fantasy XIII for me was the story. It had the great graphics and the game play was all right, but the story might as well be dead for me, because I couldn't get into it and there was like two or three characters I really gave a damn about.

Oh and also I'd like them to put more effort into a script and get voice actors that will also put some effort into it. I don't care if I have to wait five or six years inbetween each Final Fantasy game for it to have a good story as well as fun game play and great looking graphics, because that's what a RPG is supposed to be about. The story and the characters. That said, they should probably improve the battle system a little too and allow you to control each character again. I would like something along the lines of X where you could switch between party members in the midst of battle.
 
I'm jumping on the bandwagon and saying that they need to focus on storyline again. XIII's story just didn't suck me in like other games in the series have, and that disappointed me. The characters were, for the most part, one-dimensional and stereotypical. Aside from that, everything about the world itself blew me away - I absolutely loved the design and setting of everything, it was really quite magnificent.

Personally, in terms of game-play, I don't feel that Final Fantasy should return to it's roots. Rather, I'd prefer it to continue to shake things up and innovate - FF's been at the forefront of RPGs since the mid-'80s, and how will it stay there if it continues to be a rehash of the same material? Granted, I love the battle system of older FFs, but there are the many who find it boring and repetitive and would quickly be put off the series.
 
I too am saying they need to focus on the storyline, and I've been saying it pre- and post-Final Fantasy XIII. They're worried that their titles won't sell if they stick to their original roots and produce proper JRPGs, but stick a solid storyline in there and good character development and interaction and no one will care. People will buy ANY game that has a top storyline and character development regardless of the franchise, and even if Square-Enix did lose a few sales because of the JRPG genre, those fans will be picked back up again if they start reeling out AAA titles.
 
Well In a perfect world.....(ha), there will be a final fantasy game with some of the most beautful graphics possible like 10,12,13, yet free roaming world just like 7,9,8. yet an exceptional story like 7,9,10...keep in mind these are just my opinions. and they could returns to their roots with ATB, and makes the characters look fantasy like...yet still with great graphics. But this isnt a perfect world. And no matter what they do people will be happy and people will complain. Its the world we live in =)
 
Oooh i forgot I signed up here lol! Lots of interesting opinions, a lot more intelligent and insightful then most of the other troll-ridden forums out there, I think im gonna like this one!

I think that with the mixed reviews from the critics for FFXIII there would have been a lot of head scratching at Square Enix for what to improve in the future. Versus will be a pivotal game for the company as they can 'right the wrongs' that people felt FFXIII had. I think i've heard there will be an world map with airships which seems great, but ive also heard it will follow the linear, story-driven gameplay of Versus which is kinda sending out mixed messages.
 
I want them to go back to how FF used to be. Back then they managed to do great graphics (for its time) and have a great story. we have better technology now so why can't they have awesome graphics and a unique lovable story and cast??
 
XIII's problem was one of magnitiude. In other words, it was an utter failure not because they utterly failed any one point, but they half-assed it on all points, as someone pointed out on here.

No one is claiming that we want a Fallout-like experience, but we all wanted a chance to explore the world around us. The world(s) of XIII felt supremely empty. One of them was literally devoid of life (sentient life, at least). With all the city names thrown around and the beautiful scenery, I felt, literally, like I was on rails. I don't just mean it was linear; it felt like a ride at Disneyland where you can't leave your seat. Hell, even the maps were literal one-line walkways.

Going around talking to people, buying products from stores (not save points) and being able to backtrack are exceedingly necessary to give us the impression that we are directing the story, even when we (clearly) aren't.

To answer the question more directly: where go from here?

Obviously, keep all the nods to Japanese pop culture; I don't expect to ever play a game featuring a paladin again, and neither should you. Keep a Lightning character around. Try for a plot line a little more advanced than the average drama series on television; the last game did remarkably well at first, hinting at not being a god's plaything, and turned it into a very cheap, corny plot. Explore those classic themes and doing what's right in the face of what we want most (hi, XII. You did remarkably well at this.) Give us a wide-open world with some small incentives to going around talking to everyone and exploring the town. Let us breathe our setting. Don't create goofy-sounding titles to give an air of otherness; I'd have rather "gods" and "prophets" over "falCie" and "l'Cie".

Drive. Character. Development.

It's actually pretty easy, all things considered. I'd even have taken the ridiculous battle system from XIII if they followed me on the other points.

...though I can't help but point out: FFX-2's battle system sans Job changing is ideal for the kind of quick battling you're going for, Square Enix.
 
I just want them to go back to what they were originally doing: making good graphics and stories.

XIII didn't have the atompshere like its predecessors had. No towns, no free exploration, and no airship to travel around the world with.
 
Personally i think they should focus alot on Storyline, FFXIII's storyline was awefull, it just didn't stop my life flowing like it should have done, and i had the same problem with FFXII.

another thing i think they should do is return the battle system to that of FFX, as this is my favorite battle system, it was just awesum with being able to delay your opponents turns, and seeing who gets an attack in and when, so you could prepare if a boss had an Uber awesum attack
Seymour the 3rd's Annihilation. . . you all know the attack im talking bout)
but thinking carefully, the Sphere grid wasn't my best stat system.

and last but certainly not least. . . Materia. . . they should bring it back because it was just a blindingly awesum way of having your characters attacks set, and it was just so much fun working out what materia went well with what
Master Final attack + Master phoenix FTW
 
I think that Square Enix should return their focus to storylines. I also think that Final Fantasy XV (If they ever make one) should be linked to a former final fantasy kind of like, for example, a descendant of the Warrior of Light. That would be interesting, no?
 
Gamingway said:
As far as XIII, I haven't played it so I'm not sure which one it's more like, but if it's closer to the X side of things then SE really needs to stop doing that, because even if you like a linear story you do need some elbow room from time to time.
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I think this next quote answers your question (Wait, it really wasn't a question...)
Usher said:
The world(s) of XIII felt supremely empty. One of them was literally devoid of life (sentient life, at least). With all the city names thrown around and the beautiful scenery, I felt, literally, like I was on rails. I don't just mean it was linear; it felt like a ride at Disneyland where you can't leave your seat. Hell, even the maps were literal one-line walkways.
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I agree whole-heartedly with both these quotes, and the bit about the worlds seeming to be devoid of life that I didn't quote. Although I will say that I didn't mind the linearity of FFX as much as that of FFXIII; it's just that it took that linearity in the earlier game and took it a step further in the latter.

I thought your main party in the game was alright, but there wasn't one character I really loved from that game. Suppose Snow or Sazh came the closest for me, but Snow is too much of a instinctive dumbass who did a lot of things that I really didn't understand, and Sazh is a bit too serious and pessimistic, and the weakest character in the game (unless you get his best weapons, I hear.) Felt like it was missing a few archetypes that I like: the veteran badass, like Auron, Cid Highwind, or Basch; the comic relief character, like Steiner or Wakka or Cait Sith (I liked Cait Sith! :P); or a strong female character who was also rather feminine and nice, like Terra, Celes, Quistis, or Freya.

Also, there was a lack of important npc's. The ones that exist barely show up in the game. So a lot less linearity, a more diverse cast of playable characters, more npc's... Oh yeah, and don't throw me into the middle of a battle where I don't know who any of the characters are (though they seem to know each other) or what's going on, right at the beginning of the game :P

After playing through FF9 again earlier this year, I realized that it was one of my favorites (far better than FF13, which may well have replaced FF8 as my least favorite FF that I've played.) The playable characters were all fun, diverse, and had their comedic and dramatic moments (except probably Quina and Amarant) the world in which they resided was rather charming and explorer-friendly, and the story, while not supremely epic or compelling, was enough to keep me hooked throughout. So I want more of that, or FF6, which is my favorite (although obviously I don't expect a carbon copy of all aspects of those games.) That's enough from me. Anyhoo...
 
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