The N Word: Who Should Be Able to Use it and Why

[Sepalcure]

I'm presenting this issue to the forum because to my knowledge there aren't any threads that have tackled this issue yet. I'm very interested to see where this particular controversial subject will go, what avenues are posters willing to tread upon in order to get their points across, and things of that nature. My boyfriend and I got into a heated debate over whether the n-word could be used by well a white person towards a black person. I staunchly refused (and still do) to allow him to say it around me and I said that I personally found it to be offensive and racist regardless of the indicative nature of the user's intended meaning.

He argued that I was being ignorant because I was, "shouting" at him for a word that was used to stir up anger and discontent "over 400 years ago." I disagreed.

So I will begin by requesting that if you do wish to partake in this debate, that you please use valid evidence: internet sources, books, web articles, etc. Quote as necessary so I don't feel as if you're simply spouting pure opinions with no factual supportive evidence to back up your statements.

On to the questions: What do you think about the n-word(s) "n***er" and "n***a"? Do they truly differ in meaning to you or are they one and the same? Can and should everyone regardless of race use it towards a black person? Should anyone be able to use those words in general? Do you feel as if there should be some restriction put in place?

 

[Belazor et Britannia]

So I will begin by requesting that if you do wish to partake in this debate, that you please use valid evidence: internet sources, books, web articles, etc. Quote as necessary so I don't feel as if you're simply spouting pure opinions with no factual supportive evidence to back up your statements.

What do you think about the n-word(s) "n***er" and "n***a"?

You're asking for our opinion but also ask us to back it up with factual evidence? I'm confused.


To actually answer your question:
Personally I believe that - sadly - it's still too soon to be using them outside of a gang of friends where it's an inside joke, mainly because there are still people out there who are genuinely racist, and the generational gap between the segregation of the 30s and today is not large enough (hell, some of those people are still alive, and some of their children were brought up on stories about the 30s. Source: Common sense.)

That being said, I also believe that context should be applied when judging the usage of those words.
If it's not used towards a black person, or it's just "n***a whaat" then obviously that's not racist.
But if someone uses it in the context of "go drink out of the toilet bowl" or some other KKK-worthy line, then regardless of whether it's a joke it's not cool.

There is also a difference between -a and -er IMO; -er makes it seem like less of a joke when said.

In summation:
As much as I hate the idea of censorship, I don't think the world is ready for the usage of those words yet.

To bring up a separate example: "gay" isn't considered a slur anymore because it's been devalued by its overuse to describe something that's not favourable.

-a or -er have not been devalued yet.

 

[der Astronom]

Personally, I advocate free speech, so I think there should be no restriction on people using the n word. As mentioned above, you may use that term in a non-racist context, just as people might swear when hitting their funny bone or stubbing their toes; it hurts no one.
I don't see any good reason for using the n word to insult black people specifically because then it would be racism, but even free speech protects your right to make an ass of yourself, so I don't see any reason why there needs to be a restriction there.

 

[Koloth]

I do not see the point of showing all kinds of examples for debate. Because I do not see this as a worthwhile subject to debate about. Since there was so many years of slavery, I do not see this word ever being acceptable. Ok try wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/******

My link even got censored.

When all else fails, use a screen shot

 

[CassinoChips]

To actually answer your question:
Personally I believe that - sadly - it's still too soon to be using them outside of a gang of friends where it's an inside joke

If you can't say it in a public setting, that means it's not socially acceptable. You probably shouldn't be saying it within your small group either. That's like saying it's ok to make racist jokes as long as nobody of that race is around to take offense. Well, no, it's still a racist joke and you're still racist for saying it, regardless of that race's presence or lack thereof.

mainly because there are still people out there who are genuinely racist, and the generational gap between the segregation of the 30s and today is not large enough (hell, some of those people are still alive, and some of their children were brought up on stories about the 30s. Source: Common sense.)

'30s? Dunno if it's different over there, but the Civil Rights Movement was in the '60s stateside. The high school I work at was built to integrate all the high schools in this county. The school opened in 1969.

If it's not used towards a black person, or it's just "n***a whaat" then obviously that's not racist.

See above. It's passive-aggressive racism.

There is also a difference between -a and -er IMO; -er makes it seem like less of a joke when said.

Within the black community, there's probably a difference. For me, and if I was to ever use it, there would be no difference. Both are racist.

To bring up a separate example: "gay" isn't considered a slur anymore because it's been devalued by its overuse to describe something that's not favourable.

I consider that a slur. It's passive-aggressive gay-bashing.

Personally, I advocate free speech,

This isn't a free speech issue. The only thing that free speech protects is your ability to say anything without the government prosecuting you. I don't think anyone would advocate making it a prosecutable offense to say that particular word. (Unless it creates an unsafe situation, etc. But that's an interpretation issue.) This is more of a social acceptance issue, because even with free speech, you're still responsible for what you say in the public sector.

 

[Squid]

The thing I don't get is... why are some black people ok with calling eachother a N***er/N***a? If its such a bad word why would they say it to their friends/family of the same race? They're taking a bad word made by white people and using it against one another as a joke and seem to be ok with it.

I also do not like that Black people can call a white person "White Trash" etc and it be a joke but as soon as a white person says "N***A" its all like "ZOMGGGG"
it seems like double standards (obviously the N word is worse than white trash but its still saying something hurtful to eachother in a joking way)

I understand the word is hurtful and means a terrible thing but I think, once people can overcome the word, there would be a lot less racism and hatred between people of all colours! Sticks and stones after all.

I hope what I wrote made sense and hopefully nothing sounded mean or anything

 

[Sir Fratley]

It's rather sad how language has taken a turn for the insulting over the years. So many words that at one time meant something harmless (race/sexual nature-wise) have been turned into slander and insult. A faggot used to mean a bundle of sticks. Gay used to mean happy. A rainbow was, as written in the old testiment, as a promise from the Divine to never flood the planet again.

The word “nig…” used to be the most revered and sacred word in the universe. It was the “devine epithet,” and the people who began using the mother of all words that originated from this word which was sullied by the British, were the ancient Egyptians or better, the Khemites, who called their land, “Khemet” or “The Black Land,” and also used the name, “Ta-merri” or “The Beloved Land.”

The father of the “n” word was the word used by the ancient Egyptians for “God.” That word was “N-g-r” and as one can see, there are no vowels in this word. In the ancient African and even the present African languages (the Afro-Asiatic linguistic family) vowels such as “a,e,i,o,u” are not found in many translations, particularly of ancient Hebrew and Egyptian languages.

In the translation of ancient Egyptian and Hebrew (which is heavily influenced by Egyptian), one will not always find vowels, therefore, very few people will realize that the word for God, which is “N-g-r” pronounced “en-ger” was the Egyptian word for God. In fact, the Egyptian word for “nature,” is also the word used for God. That word is “ntyr,” (pronounced net-jer.” Now prounce the word “nigg..” and the word “net-jer,” and one sees the clear connection.

N-g-r (Egyptian;pronounced en-jer) = God
N-t-y-r (Egypt; pronounced net-ger) = God, Divine
Negash (Ethiopia; ne-gash) = King
Negus (Ethiopia; ne-goos) = Emperor
Nkosi (Xhosa; en-kosi) = God
Ndaba (Zulu; en-daba) = Counsil/Officials,
Naga (East Indian, Nubian = People
Nugarmarta (West African = People (See the writings of Ibn Buttata’s journey to West Africa)

The Romans are probably the first Europeans to misrepresent the word for God, which was “N-g-r”

The Romans who were speakers of Latin always knew of Blacks, there were Blacks in Rome, Italy had an ancient Black presence long before the Latins migrated from Central Asia and North Eastern Europe during the ‘Aryan’ migrations. In fact, the Latin ethnic groups is still in existance in the northern part of Italy even today. This part of Italy still grips about Hannibal’s invasion which happened about two thousand two hundred years ago!!!!

The Romans had a name for Blacks, it was “Niger” and it meant Black or people of African origins. Thus, Septimus Niger would have meant, Septimus the Negro. Yet, how did the Romans connect the word “Niger” to Black.

The Gods of Greece came from Egypt. The worship of the Black Madonna is connected with the worship of Isis, the Egyptian Goddes. Moreover, Blacks in Egypt called their Pharaohs “En-ger” or “N-g-r” he was literally referred to as “THE GOD.”

It is very possible that when the Romans tried to invade Nubia, they asked for the name of the God and the term “N-g-r” was probably used in place of “leader” or “king”. In Angola, the same also happened during the 1600′s when the word “N-gola” which means “King” (notice the “N” and the “g” in this word as well), came to be “Angola,’ the name of a kingdom in south western Africa.

 

[Koloth]

I think it is sad that black people call each other that word. I do not think the word is acceptable for anybody to use. As for calling a white person white trash, I have never seen that. But that is not a common expression used where I live anyway. I have however heard blacks call whites red necks or hunkies. Which is just as inappropriate as the n word.

edit the above post is very interesting

 

[DeusExLumina]

I don't think the word should be used at all. It's a racial slur no matter who's using it. It's like gays walking around calling eachother faggots because it somehow takes the offense out when the offended party embraces it.

I think certain words have become socially acceptable. We call homosexuals gay, we call African Americans black, and we Jewish people Jews (which I was taught was a slur, but some people feel differently), but some words will never be acceptable in any situation to me.

****** (*****), faggot, chink, etc. I hate censorship so much, but using those words recreationally is just rude.

 

[Æon Flux]

As for my opinion in regards to the word(s) themselves I think anything with a racist or biggoted tone to it realy shouldnt be said I think there are far better words to use to imply ones hate and discontent with others than ignorant slurz, wich i think points out the mental capacity of said slur slinger.
If people dont like a word twisted to an abnormal meaning then they shouldnt use it in that way to each other,but that just brings on a whole new tirade of abuse of language itself.
But i do understand why others would use the word to a friend simply because i call my chick friends my bitch's and they call me the same,granted its a more acceptable word in context but still I gather why its done.

 

[Exoskeleton]

I think it is sad that black people call each other that word. I do not think the word is acceptable for anybody to use. As for calling a white person white trash, I have never seen that. But that is not a common expression used where I live anyway. I have however heard blacks call whites red necks or hunkies. Which is just as inappropriate as the n word.

edit the above post is very interesting

Not all black people use the word. In fact most of them don't even intend to use the word like that. It's rappers and the media which suggest that it's okay to say. My source for all I'm about to say: My Historical Black College. I live here and I'm like the last person you'd ever expect to say such words ofr use such language. It is because of this that neither I nor my friends are completely accepted by most of the black community. They think it's okay to say because get this, some rapper with an insanely ridiculous name says it and makes it sound cool!

Now most people on my campus aren't smart, though not to say that blacks aren't smart, but I go to a crappy college and I've seen people here just hop on the bandwagon the first chance they get. It's no wonder there is still racism today. Of course there are racists out there today, but it's wrong to say those words. It's foul, it's horrid, and it strikes some emotion in most people when said.

A reason why the N word is unacceptable? Well compare it to a man who is sentenced to jail after being set up. Once he's released a person who recalls the terrible event by calling the man a criminal is EXACTLY like the person loosely using the N word all over town. So it's offending no matter who says it, heck I don't care if they're black or not I've told so many people off for calling me that already on this campus.

It's wrong to use any kind of foul language, and I personally try to stay away from words like that. It's hurtful and no matter where you say it or who you say it with, those times where you think you're alone there may be someone listening in or hiding somewhere. Someone who just may take offense to the "joke" in a wrong way. Choosing one's words wisely is not easy but it helps.

On behalf of most black people, we all do not think it is "okay" to say it amongst ourselves only(not implying it's okay for different races to say). We just save that word for the ones trying to live off of the pipe dream that the media displays for young black youth while we choose a different path.

On the white trash and redneck/hunkies thing: Uhm those words only refer to 1 part of the white races cultural group, not the whole thing. Another thing is that those words aren't tied to slavery. I fail to remember the time in history where Africans enslaved the Europeans for hundreds of years. I also don't recall the BBB that hunted whites down and murdered them in gruesome ways. This argument is brought up often but the N word has much more meaning, and emotional baggage. It's a word created and used with hate and no matter how many sugar and sprinkles the modern media pours over it, the roots of the word remain the same.

 

[Squid]

On the white trash and redneck/hunkies thing: Uhm those words only refer to 1 part of the white races cultural group, not the whole thing. Another thing is that those words aren't tied to slavery. I fail to remember the time in history where Africans enslaved the Europeans for hundreds of years. I also don't recall the BBB that hunted whites down and murdered them in gruesome ways. This argument is brought up often but the N word has much more meaning, and emotional baggage. It's a word created and used with hate and no matter how many sugar and sprinkles the modern media pours over it, the roots of the word remain the same.

Well I made sure to state that the N word is much worse than the White trash example. I brought it up because it's still unfair for one race to be able to call another race something that is still counted as a racist comment and then get all upset when they are retaliated at with the N word. Specially if they themselves use it!

I also get not all black people use the N word, but you must admit it is used a lot on TV, Movies, Songs by black people a lot. I have African American Cousins (who I adore) and they even use it.

Obviously it is never right to use such shit words to describe one another, but I also think eventually people need to let go of the meaning and remove the racism from it otherwise racism will never end! If that makes sense?

 

[Koloth]

Not all black people use the word. In fact most of them don't even intend to use the word like that. It's rappers and the media which suggest that it's okay to say. My source for all I'm about to say: My Historical Black College. I live here and I'm like the last person you'd ever expect to say such words ofr use such language. It is because of this that neither I nor my friends are completely accepted by most of the black community. They think it's okay to say because get this, some rapper with an insanely ridiculous name says it and makes it sound cool!

I was not stating all black people use the word. I was simply saying it's sad for them to use it. Worst part, it is used in entertainment.

A reason why the N word is unacceptable? Well compare it to a man who is sentenced to jail after being set up. Once he's released a person who recalls the terrible event by calling the man a criminal is EXACTLY like the person loosely using the N word all over town. So it's offending no matter who says it, heck I don't care if they're black or not I've told so many people off for calling me that already on this campus.

I pretty much said that in my first post on this thread. Slavery lasted a long time and the n word is referenced back to those days.

On the white trash and redneck/hunkies thing: Uhm those words only refer to 1 part of the white races cultural group, not the whole thing. Another thing is that those words aren't tied to slavery. I fail to remember the time in history where Africans enslaved the Europeans for hundreds of years. I also don't recall the BBB that hunted whites down and murdered them in gruesome ways. This argument is brought up often but the N word has much more meaning, and emotional baggage. It's a word created and used with hate and no matter how many sugar and sprinkles the modern media pours over it, the roots of the word remain the same.

I am not comparing the meanings of the difference words. But any word with racist meaning is wrong. By calling a white person a red neck is making a racial slur. Calling them a lazy white person living off others sweat. Maybe it may not seem as bed as being called the N word. It is still a racial slur.

Also, even though it may not refer to all Europeans. As does every other group, some black people tend to lump Europeans together. You know. They all look alike theory.

 

[Exoskeleton]

Well I made sure to state that the N word is much worse than the White trash example. I brought it up because it's still unfair for one race to be able to call another race something that is still counted as a racist comment and then get all upset when they are retaliated at with the N word. Specially if they themselves use it!

I also get not all black people use the N word, but you must admit it is used a lot on TV, Movies, Songs by black people a lot. I have African American Cousins (who I adore) and they even use it.

Obviously it is never right to use such shit words to describe one another, but I also think eventually people need to let go of the meaning and remove the racism from it otherwise racism will never end! If that makes sense?

yes I never said it's better to use the racist comments directed at white people but both are definitely wrong, just for different reasons(this being what I was trying to get at). Yes you proved my point. All those TV shows and what not just encourage it to the point where youth being blinded by current trends don't really know or care about the words history or context. It sucks =/

But it's completely impossible to remove the racism from that word in less than a century. It takes time for the English language to evolve and I feel that now is not that time. Racism will never end, it's human nature, to some degree, to be scared or to dislike something different from you. We can replace the word for now and in a few decades it's meaning could be completely changed but for now as someone mentioned earlier some people from the racist era are still alive today and have brought up their children that way. As long as these types of people have a decent number there is no way the word's meaning can vanish so quickly. But I agree that one day people should just forgive and forget.

 

[Tipsynaruto]

Personally, i agree that words get torn out of context. Besides the earlier post which showed the etymology of the N word, it doesnt take much common sense to know that it was mostly used for derogatory use several decades ago. I also agree that its very harming especially when a CRAP TON of those that lived in that era is alive. Hearing those words would dredge up tonnes of bad memories. I studied American Segregation and Civil Rights for Year 12 History and i have to say, from the little i've seen, that was not pretty. So, if its not that hard to see its a bad word, why keep using it as if its good/ normal?

Yes, i know. Its the media. But for once, i want to trust people aren't mindless idiots and to see past that to reality. Blaming the mass media doesnt quite cut it with me. You all have a brain. Think with it. I especially love it when people (who are normal average students) still use that word and say they aren't racist despite KNOWING what it was used for.

And for those to tell the Black people to suck it up, that its ages ago, thats just downright insensitive. Its like telling my Grandmother (who actually lived through the war in China) to stop being bigotry and suspicious of the Japanese since it was 60 years ago. Trust me, it has happened.

All in all, i dont find it appropriate to use it in any way. MAYBE as a stereotypical device to show racism (like in a movie depicting a racist guy), but i dont agree with using it outside of that. People have a brain. Make use of it and think about what the damn words truly means, then decide if you wanna use it or not. I in no way think it should be used. Banned maybe not, but it should have been one of those Taboo words that is like swearing, socially unacceptable (Sadly, swearing is now social norm so this example does not quite cut it, but you should know what i mean.)

 

[Rapture]

I don't even understand why the word is still being used, myself. I don't and never would use the word, because in my opinion it propagates hate and racism. It makes me cringe when I still hear it because people just won't let the word go.

Unfortunately I hear it more than ever on the rap songs I come across today and thats why I don't ever listen to that music anymore. I don't doubt that people don't know the roots of the word...however you would hope that If they did, then you wonder why are they using it? Its almost as if they use in in an affectionate way and I don't personally get it. I could think of many more appropriate affectionate words to call someone. I don't know if they think its flashy or they get a bigger ego when they use it but...

I don't think the word should be outlawed or silenced...this is America and there is a right to free speech...but I think people should WANT to stop saying it.

 

[Aeris]

An insult is an insult - joke or otherwise. I would never call anyone by such horrible names. Some terms used in a 'joking manner' can be n!gger, retard, cunt, bastard, faggot... Even when someone may act like they are not offended DOES NOT MEAN that they aren't actually hurt by the comment made. So why risk hurting someone at all? It's just plain wrong. If you can't be nice or at the very least, sound intelligent and civil - don't say anything at all. Free speech is allowed but verbal harassment is not.

 

[Belazor et Britannia]

If you can't say it in a public setting, that means it's not socially acceptable. You probably shouldn't be saying it within your small group either.

By that logic, you're saying you never swear and nobody else ever should.
Swearing is not acceptable in all public settings, but even this forum doesn't censor it.

'30s? Dunno if it's different over there, but the Civil Rights Movement was in the '60s stateside. The high school I work at was built to integrate all the high schools in this county. The school opened in 1969.

Uh what?
I was talking about the time when segregation was going on, not when it was abolished.
I may have my dates confused but I believe it was during the 30s that it was at its worst.

See above. It's passive-aggressive racism.

So I'm also a passive-aggressive homophobe by sometimes saying "well that's just gay"?
Which, if you'd known me at all, you'd realise was ridiculous

FYI, sometimes a word is just a word, something said because society has declared that its meaning is x and y.

Example: noob / n00b.
That's not a word. Urbandictionary aside, you wouldn't find it in any dictionary that dealt purely by officially sanctioned words (I dunno about other countries, but in Norway we have what is directly translated as "Language Council" whose job it is to decide what words should be added, edited and deleted from the dictionaries).

Yet if you use that word, everybody older than 6 and younger than 50 will instantly know what you're saying.

If you had a group of friends where -er or -a was "renamed" to simply meaning someone greedy / lazy (as is the case with my aforementioned group) then our internal usage of the word is not passive-aggressive racism.

As long as we don't use it in public yet, there is no problem.

Within the black community, there's probably a difference. For me, and if I was to ever use it, there would be no difference. Both are racist.

I'm probably misreading you here but that sounds like a contradiction to me.

It read as if you said that if the black community used it, they would be racist. It is literally impossible to be racist against your own community.

It ceases to be racism and converts into a normal stereotype.

For instance, if someone says that all Norwegians are blood-thirsty barbarian Vikings, you could technically argue that that's racism (even though being made out to sound badass is hardly something anybody would complain about xD).

However, if -I- were to say that, then I'd not be racist. It'd just be a cultural stereotype based on the history of my country.

In short, it'd be for the lulz.

I consider that a slur. It's passive-aggressive gay-bashing.

But you need to recognise that there is at least a chance that everybody else out there isn't as paranoid as you seem to be about the usage of certain words.

Not to mention the fact that originally, gay was defined as "merry, glad, happy" - I'm sure you'll still find that definition in most serious dictionaries.

You've basically defeated your own point here; you're saying that it doesn't matter what the actual meaning within a certain social circle is, it's the dictionary definition that matters.

And yet gay is still a slur even though by definition it means someone who's happy?

Why is that, is it because over time, the word evolved into meaning something else when pretty much the entire world started using it in its "new" meaning?

If so, did the entire world start using "gay" to mean "homosexual" instantly one day, or did it start in some village where some gay (happy) men decided to be gay (happy) together without clothes on?

I think scenario #2 is much more likely, don't you?

This isn't a free speech issue. The only thing that free speech protects is your ability to say anything without the government prosecuting you. I don't think anyone would advocate making it a prosecutable offense to say that particular word. (Unless it creates an unsafe situation, etc. But that's an interpretation issue.) This is more of a social acceptance issue, because even with free speech, you're still responsible for what you say in the public sector.

I agree with you, but I also think that in 50-100 years -a or -er will no longer have any racial connotations to it, much like "gay" has today been more or less desanitised to mean "something bad" rather than "homosexual".

 

[CassinoChips]

By that logic, you're saying you never swear and nobody else ever should.
Swearing is not acceptable in all public settings, but even this forum doesn't censor it.

I'm not advocating censorship of any kind. I'm saying a person should make the individual choice to not use a particular kind of language because it is inappropriate. I swear, certainly. But I genuinely try not to. Alas, I'm human.

Uh what?
I was talking about the time when segregation was going on, not when it was abolished.
I may have my dates confused but I believe it was during the 30s that it was at its worst.

Well, my point was segregation continued through the '70s in some places. And it was just as bad then as it was during any other time it existed. Emmett Till was killed in 1955, as an example.

So I'm also a passive-aggressive homophobe by sometimes saying "well that's just gay"?
Which, if you'd known me at all, you'd realise was ridiculous

No, it means you use passive-aggressively homophobic language.

FYI, sometimes a word is just a word, something said because society has declared that its meaning is x and y.

And sometimes the majority within a society has attached a meaning to a word without the consent of the social group they're targeting.

If you had a group of friends where -er or -a was "renamed" to simply meaning someone greedy / lazy (as is the case with my aforementioned group) then our internal usage of the word is not passive-aggressive racism.

You do realize that one of the stereotypes against black Americans is/was that they are/were shiftless and lazy, right? An impoverished black woman or man who was on welfare, or was unemployed, wasn't just out of luck. They were a lazy n----r. So, yes, the way you and your friends use that term is furthering stereotypes, and thus passive-aggressively racist.

Person X in your group is lazy.

The stereotype against black people is that they are lazy.

The racial slur against black people in that context is a lazy n----r.

You called the person a n----r.

Because n----rs are lazy.

Surely you can see the logic train there, yeah? Works the same way with "gay," which I'll get to in a minute.

As long as we don't use it in public yet, there is no problem.

I would disagree. Racism in private is just as bad as racism in public. It's still racism. Just the one won't get you punched in the face.

I'm probably misreading you here

You are. "Both" referred my usage of either n---a or n----r. Poor wording on my part though, so I apologize.

It read as if you said that if the black community used it, they would be racist. It is literally impossible to be racist against your own community.

You've never heard of the Brown Paper Bag Test, then? Basically, to get into certain fraternities or sororities, you have to be "black enough" to get in. Also, historically, lighter-skinned black people were seen as higher status than darker-skinned folk. By both whites and blacks. So yes, it is possible to be racist within your own community.

But you need to recognise that there is at least a chance that everybody else out there isn't as paranoid as you seem to be about the usage of certain words.

It's not paranoia. I'm not afraid of the words. I just disagree with their usage. And people are entitled to their opinions on the words, however wrong they may be.

Not to mention the fact that originally, gay was defined as "merry, glad, happy" - I'm sure you'll still find that definition in most serious dictionaries.

Isn't really relevant, but you'll also find the homosexual definition in most serious dictionaries.

You've basically defeated your own point here; you're saying that it doesn't matter what the actual meaning within a certain social circle is, it's the dictionary definition that matters.

No, it has nothing to do with denotation, and everything to do with connotation.

And yet gay is still a slur even though by definition it means someone who's happy?

I dunno, I never said anything about it's dictionary definition. You brought that into the discussion, so I can't really defend a point that I never made.

Why is that, is it because over time, the word evolved into meaning something else when pretty much the entire world started using it in its "new" meaning?

Just because society attached a new meaning to the word doesn't mean the new meaning is correct/right/etc.

If so, did the entire world start using "gay" to mean "homosexual" instantly one day, or did it start in some village where some gay (happy) men decided to be gay (happy) together without clothes on?

I think scenario #2 is much more likely, don't you?

Neither scenario is likely, because neither actually happened. Like... not even close. It started because being homosexual was not socially acceptable, and in some places, such as England until the '60s, accusing someone of homosexuality was a serious, sometimes criminal, offense. So to work around this, people started applying euphemisms for homosexual tendencies. A "confirmed bachelor." A "queer." Etc.

I agree with you, but I also think that in 50-100 years -a or -er will no longer have any racial connotations to it,

I doubt it.

much like "gay" has today been more or less desanitised to mean "something bad" rather than "homosexual".

Person X in your group does something you don't like/disagree with/feel is bad.

You call them gay.

Being gay is socially seen as something that is not normal/is disagreed with/is bad.

You're furthering the stereotype that homosexuality is not normal, and is inferior to heterosexuality.

 

[DarkShadow]

In my opinion I think it should be ok to use the n***a but not the n***er,and you can bitch about it all you want but black people (african americans mainly) will never stop calling each other it.

I don't know the "street" definition of n***a, but I would suggest its just another word for "brother" (from the same race as they all originate from Africa) or a gangsta. But n***er is another term deeply offensive......Sure it can be a little misunderstood by a black person when it's coming from a white person,but white people don't usually speak street anyway.But there is another word for white people which is w***er and that is said to white people who talk "street".

But anyway the N word is beyond control, and is more commonly used as the street definition rather than what it originally meant.

Maybe the word just evolved....But people refrain from using it as it was originally offensive.