Someone Please Explain this to me

LocoWeedX99

LocoWeedX99

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I've been playing FF games since my childhood. I grew up with this game. When I first completed it, I was blown away. The Gameplay. Graphics. Story. But enough with the cock sucking.

FF7 is my favorite. I have never seen advent children. Nor have I played crisis core. I can pretty much washed my hands clean of the idea of FF7 going beyond FF7. Keep this in mind.

I recently completed a play through as a nostalgia trip, I haven't played this game for a while now. Upon completion, certain things about the story line just bugged me. I want these 2 things to be explained. I don't like plot holes, they only serve to keep me from enjoying my game. Below are the 2 things i need help with.

Oh yeah... SPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERS

1. Sephiroth's physical body is at Northern Crater. Ok. Sephiroth can manipulate/control those who bear Jenova cells. Ok. Who the fuck is the guy looks exactly like Sephiroth that appears to the party on the Cargo Ship? The dude at the temple of ancients? Who the fuck killed President Shinra? I need so explanation here! Someone told me some crap about it being Jenova; that Sephiroth can manipulate the parts and that is what creates the image (As seen by the remains of Jenova on the Cargo ship). But Sephiroth is seen holding that piece before the fight. Sephiroth throws a piece at you at the Forgotten City as well. Also, there is no presence of Jenova (besides Cloud and the man in a black cape at the entrance) at the Temple of Ancients yet Sephiroth appears. This explanation is not satisfactory.

2. Nibelheim is burned. The people are slaughtered. When you return, the people are all oblivious to this fact. The interwebs have told me that Shin-Ra payed actors to bury the whole thing. Ok. When is this mentioned?

Any help is appreciated. Profanity means I care.
 
I'm still confuzzled myself about the Sephiroth in Magicite thing, so can't answer that, but for the second part, if you go into what was Tifa's room I think, there's a report lying on the desk about the whole process (in the flashback, it's letters or something for Tifa, but it's in the same spot).
 
You like the Oilers huh?:hmmm:

Yeah supposedly the guy up in the Norther Crater is Spehiroth, the Sephiroth and the guy who you encounter around Gaia is just a facsimile in the guise of Jenova, i agree that it is disappointing to find out that is not Sephiroth:srsly:
 
Sephiroth is indeed in the Northern Crater because when he stabbed Cloud during the Nibelheim Incident, and then gets tossed into the Mako.. well, that's him. He's encased in Mako, and travelled through the Lifestream to end up there, similar to how when Cloud falls into the Lifestream at the Northern Crater and ends up down in Mideel.

Now as for Sephiroth being Jenova, that's true. It's never actually fully explained how it happens in the game but this is how it goes down.

Back in Shinra HQ, you peek into the Jenova Cae and there she is. You do a little battle with Hojo, go back out, and she's gone. Jenova had been laying dormant all these years back when since Hojo was experimenting on her with Lucrecia as well, so why the sudden outburst now? Because Cloud's there. Because the Ancient's there. But mostly because of Cloud, because he as well carries Jenova cells.

Sephiroth, even from inside the Mako, can sense Cloud by where he is because of the Jenova cells. And his will is so strong that yes, he can manipulate and overpower Jenova herself. So he was the one who willed her to escape, and he manipulated her to take on his shape. Besides, for how long would Cloud follow an alien? Not very long. But follow the hero who destroyed his life? Clearly he would chase him till the ends of the Earth.

There are clues it's Jenova when each time you come face to face with 'Sephiroth' you fight a Jenova piece. A piece of Jenova drops off at each encounter, usually an arm/tentacle that manifests itself into something greater.

Another clue. Sephiroth can't fucking fly. :wacky: Yes he's Number One SOLDIER of all time, but even he, who is made of alien cells, cannot fly. (Not until AC when he's all super pumped up with Jenova alien cells again anyway)
 
I'm going to try my hand at explaining this, but I have a horrible feeling that a lot of my knowledge comes from various sources, so it may be a little muddled. If someone reads this and thinks "hang on, that's not quite right!" please feel free to correct me!

1. The series of Sephiroths seen throughout the game are simply avatars. I got the impression (although goodness knows where from, I can't remember!) that they were the men in black capes who had been morphed into the shape of Sephiroth... Sort of like Agent Smith in the Matrix... or maybe I just got that idea from the Matrix! I can't remember! Ahem! Anyway, that would explain their physical presence because some sort of astral projection couldn't carry Jenova's body parts or stab Aerith. I got the impression that these "clones" could be manipulated by Sephiroth because of the Jenova cells in him and the clones.

I did wonder about the various pieces of Jenova Sephiroth lobs at you too and I guessed that the different body parts (oh Sephiroth, you're so gross) were removed from the body he took from the ShinRa building. I don't really understand what happens to each part? They seem to mutate into those freaky Jenova monsters... but the real Jenova seems to be in the Northern Crator, and she has many tentacles to prob you with!

2. This one I'm a little more comfortable with answering! It's a massive ShinRa cover up! Nibleheim is definitely burned to the ground, it's destroyed and pretty much all of its residents are killed. Then, magical, evil ShinRa comes along and says "oh dear, our baby Sephiroth did this, we'd better make it unhappen" and they rebuild it and send in a load of ShinRa employees to live there and pretend to be locals. I can't exactly remember all of the evidence of this, but I'm sure there are letters in Tifa's bedroom, on her desk, that entail the rebuilding of Nibleheim... but it's easy to miss them, especially if you're jamming on her piano!


I hope this helps somewhat! :D
 
I think there's a major clue at the Northern Crater. After defeating Jenova at the crater, Cloud says something among the lines of " So what we're been following has been a fraud all this time ". Something like that. :hmmm:

Also during the Northern Crater while Cloud is being manipulated to give the Black Materia to Sephiroth, Cloud realizes that from the Shrina building, that he's been following basically a shadow. Also Sephiroth's speech to Cloud before Cloud is manipulated. Sephiroth mentions that Jenova can take any body of form of shape and make it her own. All the stuff about Cloud being a puppet is a lie. But Cloud just following a shadow created from Jenova or Sephiroth is true.
 
Thanks guy for the replies but a couple more questions.

How can Sephiroth be Jenova? As I said before, he is carrying the pieces that are later dropped after battle (on the cargo ship he is carrying the arm, in the forgotten city he throws the piece at you). Look i know he cannot fly (at least not before becoming a GOD!) and astral projections prolly can't rape midgar zoloms like that, so if it has to be Jenova (as everyone who I have talked to insists) that seems to imply that Jenova is controlling the entire thing (and liking Sephiroth as his crazed meglomaniacal way) I don't wanna think that. So, Is it the singular pieces he carries that are creating an image of him? Is it a man in a black cape? I guess its all interpretive but I just want a solid mechanism.
 
Okay! Well, I had a little read up on FFVII and I think I got a few things confused!

The Sephiroth seen around the game in the first two discs is neither an astral projection or the "Sephiroth clones", it is in fact the body of Jenova that you see in the ShinRa building.

When Cloud attacks Sephiroth in the Mt. Nibel Reactor Sephiroth tumbles into the lifestream with Jenova's head he can't get absorbed into the lifestream because of the Jenova cells in him and his strong will. He travels to the Northern Crater and bides his time. Gathering his strength.

When both Cloud (another Jenova cells carrier) and Aerith (a Cetra) are around the headless body of Jenova Sephiroth manipulates the body and "transforms" it into his shape. He escapes and kills several ShinRa employees and the president.

From that point onwards he's throwing parts of Jenova's body, which is technically his own body, at Cloud and co.

Hum... I wonder if that's right?
 
Well barring the Nibelheim incident, any 'bad deeds' between then and Meteor is all Jenova, it's only at that point that the real Sephiroth takes over as the bad guy. As far as taking shapes is concerned, go to the snow place (Icicle Inn I think it's called?) and go to Gast's house, in his interviews with Ifalna she mentions how Jenova can take on any shape (this being how she wiped out the Cetra) so it's plausible that Jenova took on Sephiroth's form to manipulate Cloud into following her for the reunion :hmmm: or at the very least, to summon meteor since I think (can't confirm) Jenova wanted to destroy the world.

As for 2, as many have stated there's a report in Tifa's room about the replication of Nibelheim with hired actors.
 
Okay squaredgirl, I but that! I just wanted an answer to something i felt damaged the games story. That would make sense make sense but don't the forms of jenova you fight have a head? Can jenova regenerate? and how come when you fight her at nothern crater (right before bizzaro and safer sephirtoh) she has a head as well?
 
I've got a pre-made explanation to exactly ALL your questions, LocoWeed, and others here have done a good job of explaining it already. I've spent several years and research and piecing the puzzle together, though, so I can offer a very detailed explanation that is, to my knowledge, very accurate. My post is longer and maybe more in-depth than you want, but here it is:


Jenova is a shapeshifting alien that comes to the planet on the back of an asteroid, causing the enormous Northern Crater in the game. As you know, this seriously wounds the planet. In any case, Jenova encounters the Cetra, who have the ability to communicate with nature, or Gaia, as they call it. This is the actual 'soul' of the entire planet itself.

Whatever Jenova's intentions were, we'll never know. There's lot of conjecture on that which I won't get into. What happened is that Jenova began to wage war on the Cetra, and very nearly won, which tells you something of its power. In the end, however, the Cetra manage to kill Jenova and dumped its body in a chasm. However, the Cetra population had been decimated to the point where it would never recover. Thus, the death of the Cetra.

Note that Jenova is dead. When things die, they generally don't come back. Ever.

2,000 years later, Shinra company finds this body and they think it is the body of an Ancient -- or a Cetra -- and they try to create a Cetra to lead them to the Promised Land which is supposed to be full of Mako. The belief was that -- though the Cetra are (nearly) extinct -- the ability to communicate with Gaia is specific to their 'species', physically embedded in their genetic code. This isn't really true, but that isn't the point. The results were that several 'clones' and Sephiroth was made as a result of these experiments.

Now, there is an important property of Jenova that you must know. In order to shape-shift, Jenova has complete control over every single cell of its body. Each cell is, in a way, aware and can respond to commands. However, when Jenova was killed, the cells went dormant and did not change shape. (If these cells can survive a vaccuum, then they won't die from mere lack of movement.) All that is needed to make the body of Jenova move is 2 things. 1) there must be some sort of energy in the body and 2) there has to be a mind behind that energy that can issue commands to the cells and tell them to move. Keep this in mind when I come back to it later.

Now, whereas the other 'clones' simply had dead Jenova cells injected into them, Sephiroth differed in that the cells were actually spliced into his DNA while he was in the womb. The nature of the Jenova cells is such that they could react a little when in a life-energy filled environment, and thus caused several debilitating side-effects to the SOLDIERS that were experimented on.

So lets fast-forward to Nibleheim. There, Sephiroth discovers experiments on humans in an attempt to create... something. He puts two-and-two together and he realizes that he has the whole history of what a 'created experiment' is. This is when he flips out.

Afterward, Sephiroth discovered legends about Jenova, but only scraps, and he interpreted them very badly. Remember, he thought he was an Ancient! We all know that Jenova is an alien, who tried to slaughter the Ancients! A vast difference. Sephiroth was on a mission to get revenge, supposedly because the 'traitors' (as he called Cloud) that rose up and made permanent establishments severed the treasured connection with the planet. In truth, his mission is to get revenge on those who created him for their personal gain. Sephiroth's story is sad in the fact that he was never accorded the affection and attention every soul desires. His was not the creation of love but the creation of profit.

He is an animal, bred to lead Shinra to their 'Promised Land' so they can set up more Mako reactors to get rich. Sephiroth knew this. This is why he was so vehement when he swore Shinra would never find the Promised Land. It wasn't because he wanted to protect it--it's because he wanted to spite Shinra. He was operating entirely for his own goals.

Of course, that is the true reason, but he says differently, to cast himself in a righteous, noble light. It takes a bit of investigating to find the real reason, though. (I'll repeat it again, because this is the tricky part.) He has found an enemy for him to hate (the ones who opposed the 'Cetra' and which he accuses Cloud and the rest of humanity to be a part of) and goes on a mission to turn himself into a god of sorts so he can destroy them. It's important to remember that Sephiroth believes himself to be a Cetra himself and that Jenova is a Cetra as well! This is not true. That is where most of the confusion comes from.

In any case, he decides he's going to get revenge and starts with Cloud's hometown. Needless to say, that was a bad idea. Cloud, who is just a grunt at this point, confronts Sephiroth on a catwalk above the exposed Mako in the very bowels of the reactor. This is the famous scene where Sephiroth spears Cloud on his ridiculously long sword and Cloud tosses him over the side into the burning Mako.

At this point, Sephiroth is physically dead. Nothing can survive a dip in boiling energy. The body isn't destroyed, but Sephiroth himself is actually DEAD. However, through sheer force of will, his soul does NOT merge with the Lifestream as it is supposed to. There is a very malevolent mind wandering throughout the Lifestream and he's looking for a way to get back to the real world.

This is where Jenova comes back in. Its body is still sitting in Shinra headquarters. Now, remember what I said about the cells of Jenova's body? That they needed energy and control in order to move? Think of the cells as computers; they all have a basic programming they will run but will do nothing unless told to. In this way, it was easy for Sephiroth to simply recharge the battery and enter commands. Since Sephiroth's very soul/consciousness/whathaveyou is sitting the the Lifestream, it wasn't hard for him to do. Not to mention that Jenova itself was also sitting in a tank of Mako.

However, it must have taken him 7 years to achieve this because it is 7 years until Jenova suddenly appears to 'come to life' and destroy everything in the Shinra building. This is the part of the game just after the characters get caught by Shinra and this is what causes all of the cell doors to open for no apparent reason.

Now, note that the body of Jenova is gone from the tank it was held in -- and yet, survivors scattered around the place say that it was Sephiroth who killed everyone and it is Sephiroth's sword found sticking from the back of the Shinra president. That is because, after 7 years of 'recharging' the cells of Jenova, Sephiroth finally took control of the alien shapshifter body and made it shapeshift to look like him.

This is very important. Sephiroth's body forever remains at the Norther Crater, where it was washed up by the flow of Lifestream trying to heal the crater-wound. The Sephiroth you see throughout the game is actually a part of Jenova's body that has simply been morphed to look like Sephiroth. This is a huge factor that makes people confused and is important to understand.

Anyways. So all the times you see Sephiroth appear and a Jenova battle comes immediately afterward, that body you see is actually a small piece of Jenova. He drops a random piece of Jenova for you to fight and then zooms away. The Sephiroth that came out of nowhere and stabbed Aerith? That was actually a part of Jenova's body.

NOW, it is also important to remember that, when you get to the temple of the Ancients, and you touch the pool for a 'story' to be told to you by the planet and a ghostly image of Sephiroth arrives -- THAT is the real soul of Sephiroth. Since the 'story' is being told in the Lifestream, and since his soul is in the Lifestream, that was Sephiroth actually talking to the characters in the Lifestream.



So, in conclusion, there is no 'vessel' in the game. When Sephiroth says that 'this is the end of this body's usefullness' at the end in the Northern Crater, he means that the puppet that is Jenova's dead body is no longer needed to manipulate the material world.

All of this was done, if you recall, so that Sephiroth may get the Black Materia and use it to create a wound so great in the planet that all of the Lifestream would be in one place at one time, likely killing the planet in the process. Sephiroth intended to use that concentrated power to become a being so powerful as to be godlike and thus create a haven where there are no 'humans' that he STILL BELIEVES killed the Cetra. His warped view of the world is quite disturbing, but there you have it.

So, Jenova is NOT controlling anyone -- if anything, ITS body is being controlled by SEPHIROTH. Not the other way around. Jenova is dead, but it is a very versatile tool that Sephiroth used to manipulate things in the real world so he could get the other tool -- the Black Materia -- to further his goals. And he came damn close to accomplishing them, too.

So! Any further questions?

P.S. Now all my free time is gone after typing this. I better get some rep or cookies for this.





As for the matter of Niblehiem being burned, Shinra rebuilt the entire town then filled it with their own employees to act as townspeople so that word of a destroyed town would never reach public ears. They did keep the whole thing buried, but they didn't do it by throwing dirt over the whole thing -- they literally made up a new Nibelheim. You can find letters/reports of this in Tifa's room in the rebuilt town, on her desk.
 
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I think (and this is only a guess :D) that Jenova can regenerate, change shape and alter its image entirely. Sephiroth does that via Jenova while he's still in the crater... But like I said, I'm not exactly sure! These may just be the ramblings of a crazy FFVII fangirly! :x3:
 
Actually, squaredgirl, you're dead on. The natural properties of Jenova's cells allow it to regenerate as any human skin can and also to shapeshift. It's just Sephiroth pulling the strings.

The fact that Jenova appears to have a head in other forms is superfluous. For this kind of a creature, it technically doesn't even have a head. It only copies other creatures, and changes its form to suit its needs. The head that Sephiroth took (and ended up dumped in the Mako as a result) from the Nibelheim reactor wasn't really a "head" as we might imagine it. It was just a small piece of Jenova that had been shaped to look like a head. So really, Jenova can have as many head or feet or hands as Sephiroth wants it to, simply by dictating that it must have so many appendages for whatever purpose he's using this puppet for.

It's best to think of Jenova as a big ball of clay, and Sephiroth is the one that's shaping it and making it move.

Kinda creepy, really.
 
Dragon Mage said:
Actually, squaredgirl, you're dead on.
Click to expand...

Happy dance! Yay!! :x3:

But, now that I really think about it. I wonder if Jenova's form, the one we first see at the Mt. Nibel reactor, is somewhat human-shaped. Or to be a little more specific, it's shaped like a human female.

I wonder if Jenova chose that shape upon coming to the planet or if it came across other human-like creatures in the past and stayed in that shape whilst traveling?

This is why I love FFVII! So many things to think about! :D
 
I know, right? FF7 is so fascinatingly weird, there's always more to find! ^_^

I guess Jenova's form you see in the reactor could be either or of those suggestions, really. I think it's most likely it took that form when it arrived on the planet, to emulate the people it saw. That form we see it in is most likely the one it had when the Cetra fought and defeated it -- probably why it doesn't look totally human, since it would have shape-shifted to give itself some advantages in battle. Since it died in that modified body, that's what it would have remained as. At least, until Sephiroth rebooted the cells and started playing puppeteer.
 
Gerat questions actually... I have more but I will try to answer yours to the best of my ability

Question one... with all the Sephiroth... clones??? I guess you call them. I'm guessing... just a guess... it is kinda like how... ok I know you didnt play Crisis Core so...

SPOILER ALERT!

Kind like how Angeal and Gensis were able to semi clone themselves I believe... Gensis at a farther level... Jenova cells gave them the power to Clone themselves in some degree (not as far as Sephiroth...you have to play the Crisis Core game to understand this)

Spoiler ending

Question two... the Niblehiemcover up.... Is that a cover up...
There are a couple reports in Tifa's room that you can read that explains it... Why they covered up is so Sephiroth's name isnt smeared (thats what i believe at least) and the truth behind the Jenova cell's wouldnt be exposed (again what I think).

Other than that... I dont know anyother reason why they would cover up the Niblehiem burning...or why they would care? everyone died except Cloud and Tifa and Zack... as far as I could tell... except Zack dies later so...one down....
 
SPOILER ALERT. If you do not wish to know, turn away_

The men in black capes were failed experiments by Prof. Hojo. He used Jenova to create these beings.

Nibelheim was rebuilt even though everyone died. The people there after were clones made by Hojo to keep his agenda with Jenova secret.

If you think about it, Hojo was the main antagonist. He injected Sephiroth with Jenova cells while still in the womb, and this is how he came to the conclusion that Jenova was his mother. After discovering what was inside the Nibel reactor, he went ape shit and burrowed himself in the 'promised land' for the reunion, when all of Jenova reunited. By doing this, he would be powerful enough to do his bidding. The real Sephiroth had thought to be dead during his 5 year disappearance. The Sephiroth that killed Pres. Shinra was really Jenova.

Cloud was induced with a false memory stratum from coming into contact with these cells. He was never in SOLDIER but is still engineered to kick some ass. However, this is also why Sephiroth can sometimes control him.
Presumably, this is also why Cloud seems to be the only one that has a chance at kicking his ass.

Pretty much, it's a portrait of an insane scientist playing with a cataclysmic shape-shifter that eventually runs rampant.
 
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Alright thanks Dragon Mage! You have saved the basic plot of FF7 for me. I can now enjoy my favorite game (as childish or whatever that sounds) again!
 
:griin: My absolute pleasure to assist, LocoWeed! If ever you have a question about FF7 that needs answering, never hesitate to ask, I'll be only too glad to help. :3 I may be iffy on some of the FF7 metaphysics, but I've got the history fairly well nailed down.

:woo:
 
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