Plan for mosque near World Trade Center site moves ahead

[charliepanayi]

Put yourself in the 9/11 victims shoes.

Well I can't, since they're dead. If you mean their relatives, then just because I'm sorry for their loss and understand a few may be upset at the idea doesn't mean I have to agree with them. If they can't distinguish between a place of worship for a religion and some people who killed many because of a twisted view of said religion, then that is their problem.

And it's not ON ground zero, it's near ground zero.

 

[Donald Trump]

Isn't the whole point of placing it near ground zero to stop people's prejudices, the ones that we've seen in this thread. eg Muslims are bad, they want to kill Americans etc. If people can't differentiate between Al-Qaida and Islam then they're too ignorant to have an opinion worth listening to.
Just because some people might be offended, is no reason to not doing something. Even if they are offended by it, there is still no reason to not build the mosque.

 

[Jamesy]

I can see that, too.

They only attacked us because their religion supposedly says to hate everyone but them. That's just what they believe.

Islamic fundamentalist beliefs are purely an interpretation of the Qur'an.



Have to wonder would people be so opposed to this if it was an attack done by Christians. I doubt it. America may think its tolerant but its history shows otherwise, and this is just another chapter in it.

Not that I have anything against Mosques...but why on ground zero? That to me is as random as putting a Blockbuster store there. It just doesn't make sense. Ground Zero is a memory for many people in more ways than one. It was the tallest building in New York. It was a place of business venture and entrepreneurship. It's where over 2,000 people died. Why not just build a grand memorial or a museum? I personally think we need something that remembers the moment.

Why not ground zero? I would say that a museum that by its very definition and existence will cater to tourists is even more disrespectful than a place of worship for those who follow the Islamic faith and want, as the article states, to help build a better relationship with the "West".

Furthermore, its all good and well to put "ourselves in the shoes of the victims of 9/11" or whatever another poster said; those people are dead, and the most ignorant thing one can do is speak for the dead and assume that they would hold the same beliefs.

 

[CassinoChips]

So how close is too close then? Four blocks? A mile? A hundred miles?

Really though, they bought the land/building, it's their right to do whatever they want with the building, within the law.

And I echo the sentiments of those who've said that Islamic extremists are a lunatic fringe of a religion that is no more violent than Christianity.

 

[blakstang98]

I'm sorry, but regardless of "freedom" or "rights" or what not, it's just not right. It would be like if Nazi German's were still around after the Holocaust and built Nazi-related buildings over the sites of concentration camps. Laws may be laws, but compromising morality is never a good thing for anyone. Not to mention the law protects the bad people anyways.

I understand that its trendy to be an American who's anti-American, but this really is wrong in my opinion. Over 3,000 American's died at Ground Zero, and people of New York are still mourning over those events from loved ones that were lost in the tragedy. It's not only wrong for Muslims to build a religious building there, but it's wrong for any religion. Maybe we should start building on cemetery grounds too. Well, we can't discriminate because of religious preferences and they have a right to do what they want if they can weasel their way to buy the property, so it's ok then? Respect is something that dies a little everyday in our society, apparantly. I just never thought I would see it get to such a level as to build on grounds that were deeply violated less than 10 years ago.

Bottom line, I never lost any loved ones in the 9/11 tragedy, but it's absolutely appalling that a mosque be allowed to be built, even within viscinity of Ground Zero. I don't give a damn what laws say or what religious freedom says, it's just plain disrespectful.

 

[Donald Trump]

I'm sorry, but regardless of "freedom" or "rights" or what not, it's just not right. It would be like if Nazi German's were still around after the Holocaust and built Nazi-related buildings over the sites of concentration camps. Laws may be laws, but compromising morality is never a good thing for anyone. Not to mention the law protects the bad people anyways.

What bad people?
And you analogy is ridiculous.

I understand that its trendy to be an American who's anti-American, but this really is wrong in my opinion. Over 3,000 American's died at Ground Zero, and people of New York are still mourning over those events from loved ones that were lost in the tragedy. It's not only wrong for Muslims to build a religious building there, but it's wrong for any religion. Maybe we should start building on cemetery grounds too. Well, we can't discriminate because of religious preferences and they have a right to do what they want if they can weasel their way to buy the property, so it's ok then? Respect is something that dies a little everyday in our society, apparantly. I just never thought I would see it get to such a level as to build on grounds that were deeply violated less than 10 years ago.

The death toll is less than 3000, also they weren't all American. Obviously there were no Jews because they were warned etc etc.
They didn't 'weasel' their way into buying it either.

Bottom line, I never lost any loved ones in the 9/11 tragedy, but it's absolutely appalling that a mosque be allowed to be built, even within viscinity of Ground Zero. I don't give a damn what laws say or what religious freedom says, it's just plain disrespectful.

To who?
To the victims? They're dead, they don't care.
To their families? Do you know what they think, and do their opinions matter?
To anyone else? None of their business.

 

[Madaraki]

I'm sorry, but regardless of "freedom" or "rights" or what not, it's just not right. It would be like if Nazi German's were still around after the Holocaust and built Nazi-related buildings over the sites of concentration camps. Laws may be laws, but compromising morality is never a good thing for anyone. Not to mention the law protects the bad people anyways.

I am sorry, but it is nowhere NEAR the same thing.

The proposal (that is going ahead I might add) is to have a place of peaceful worship built several blocks away from Ground Zero. The plan has been put forward by a man whose intention is to foster better relations and understanding between two groups of people, both of whom have been hurt (albeit in different ways) by a terrorist organization. Imam Rauf is not affiliated with Al Qaeda and he is not pushing to have the mosque built over Ground Zero (as would be implied by the wording in your statement.

I understand that its trendy to be an American who's anti-American, but this really is wrong in my opinion. Over 3,000 American's died at Ground Zero, and people of New York are still mourning over those events from loved ones that were lost in the tragedy.

There are two ways to love America.
You can love it as a child loves its parent: The parent is the greatest. The parent can do no wrong. Woe betide all who attack the parent.

You can love it as one adult loves another: You love and care for that person with all your being; even if it sometimes means criticizing them for their own sake or improvement.

Don't get me wrong; I love this country. We're seriously fucking awesome (Alice Cooper was born here, for christsakes). All the same, I'm not going to refrain from criticizing a part of it when criticism is due; precisely because I want this country to be the best that it can be.

It's not only wrong for Muslims to build a religious building there, but it's wrong for any religion. Maybe we should start building on cemetery grounds too. Well, we can't discriminate because of religious preferences and they have a right to do what they want if they can weasel their way to buy the property, so it's ok then?

First off; I do at least appreciate you making the statement universal with the idea in mind that Ground Zero should be considered hallowed ground, but again; this thing's being built nearby. It's not like it'll be on it or just across the street (again; comparison to building on cemeteries falls short).

Honestly, I think the big reason this has gotten so much attention is because the words "mosque" and "Ground Zero" were used in the same sentence

Respect is something that dies a little everyday in our society, apparently. I just never thought I would see it get to such a level as to build on grounds that were deeply violated less than 10 years ago.

Third time in this post, and umpteemillionth time in this thread: SE- eh, never mind

Besides, and this is not directed at you; if we're going to talk about respect dying a little every day, can we take a look at how so many people consider Islam a terrorist cult when it really isn't? Wouldn't you be offended if people kept referring to your faith as a cult of murderers (or some such thing)?

Bottom line, I never lost any loved ones in the 9/11 tragedy, but it's absolutely appalling that a mosque be allowed to be built, even within vicinity of Ground Zero. I don't give a damn what laws say or what religious freedom says, it's just plain disrespectful.

And y'know, if there were plans for a Church to be built nearby, I doubt anyone would even care. It goes back to what I said about this article likely only making headlines because the words "mosque" and "Ground Zero" were used together.

Ah...overreaction

 

[moogling]

And y'know, if there were plans for a Church to be built nearby, I doubt anyone would even care. It goes back to what I said about this article likely only making headlines because the words "mosque" and "Ground Zero" were used together.

If a church were built there, you're right, no one would care. The thing is, it's a MOSQUE. People of the same religion that the people who caused 9/11 are believed to be a part of. It doesn't matter if they really were or not, the fact is, people think that muslims are the people that want to harm us.

I'm just going to come right out and say it. What if one of the family members of the victims gets so angered that they decide to destroy the mosque? What then?

I feel like this could start something huge, even if people don't see it.

I still say that it's outright disrespectful, seeing as how the family members are going to be passing by the place where their family member was killed, and look around the corner and there's a mosque. If it were me, I would feel like they destroyed the buildings just so that they could spread their religion.

If it were a church, it would be an ENTIRELY different story. Christians/Catholics aren't trying to build peace between cultures.

 

[Altair]

My opinion matters not. I do however think that Muslims building a Mosque right near the sight of 9/11 is a bad idea. Mainly for their safety, there are still allot of New Yorkers mad about 9/11 and it is them that the Muslims in that area will have to worry about. Unfortunately this country has not gotten past racial profiling, some people think that all Muslims are Jihadist hell bent on the destruction of America and her allies. This is not true.

Despite whatever we do to prevent it there will be allot of discrimination, and yes hate crimes in that area, that is just the simple truth. The sad part is that allot of the New York cops wont do a thing to stop it.

Overall a bad idea.

 

[Jamesy]

I'm sorry, but regardless of "freedom" or "rights" or what not, it's just not right. It would be like if Nazi German's were still around after the Holocaust and built Nazi-related buildings over the sites of concentration camps. Laws may be laws, but compromising morality is never a good thing for anyone. Not to mention the law protects the bad people anyways.

I understand that its trendy to be an American who's anti-American, but this really is wrong in my opinion. Over 3,000 American's died at Ground Zero, and people of New York are still mourning over those events from loved ones that were lost in the tragedy. It's not only wrong for Muslims to build a religious building there, but it's wrong for any religion. Maybe we should start building on cemetery grounds too. Well, we can't discriminate because of religious preferences and they have a right to do what they want if they can weasel their way to buy the property, so it's ok then? Respect is something that dies a little everyday in our society, apparantly. I just never thought I would see it get to such a level as to build on grounds that were deeply violated less than 10 years ago.

Bottom line, I never lost any loved ones in the 9/11 tragedy, but it's absolutely appalling that a mosque be allowed to be built, even within viscinity of Ground Zero. I don't give a damn what laws say or what religious freedom says, it's just plain disrespectful.

This has to be a wind up. Are you really comparing one of the most brutal dictators of the 20th century that ordered, condoned and planned the mass murder and occupation of an entire continent to Islamic hijackers who flew into two buildings in New York?


Yes, it is okay if they "weasel" their way to buy property, that is how your country works and that is how your legal system works, it is completely legitimate in every way, shape and form.

I'll tell you whats disrespectful, the clear double standards by some Americans when the topic of Muslims comes up and the sheer ignorance and gullibility of their views.

 

[The Witch]

Islamic fundamentalist beliefs are purely an interpretation of the Qur'an.

Have to wonder would people be so opposed to this if it was an attack done by Christians. I doubt it. America may think its tolerant but its history shows otherwise, and this is just another chapter in it.

Actually, I would be ashamed and would completely understand why people wouldn't want a Christian Church built there. Guess what? I don't want ANY church/mosques built on what's supposed to be a burial ground for more than 2,000 innocent lives.

Furthermore, its all good and well to put "ourselves in the shoes of the victims of 9/11" or whatever another poster said; those people are dead, and the most ignorant thing one can do is speak for the dead and assume that they would hold the same beliefs.

Those victims that survived, those people that are STILL sick from those attacks do have a right to disapprove of this.

And I echo the sentiments of those who've said that Islamic extremists are a lunatic fringe of a religion that is no more violent than Christianity.

Yea, because the extreme Christians really like bombing innocent people.

Oh, and remember, the extreme Christians LOVE to stone women to death for being raped.

Because we all know how extreme Christians love to strip women of every human right possible.

And we all know Extreme Christians just love trying to prevent abortions because they like the fight.

Don't forget about how the extreme Christians just love to make death threats towards the South Park creators every time they insult God or Jesus.

Lets all remember how the extreme Christians cheer for American deaths.

And remember boys and girls, the extreme Christians are the people that will and have tried to blow you up.


Oh, wait a second--damn. That's right Christians don't do any of that.

Remind me again how Christians are no more violent than extreme Islamics?

Can you tell us the last large group of people an extreme Christian killed in the name of his faith? What about the last building they blew up? The last woman they stoned to death? The last time you saw an extreme Christian holding a sign saying how much they hate America? Or what about the last time you saw extreme Christians cheering for the deaths of innocents?

No? Nothing?

I'm just going to come right out and say it. What if one of the family members of the victims gets so angered that they decide to destroy the mosque? What then?

I feel like this could start something huge, even if people don't see it.

You're right. That could very well happen. And that's scary to think of.

I still say that it's outright disrespectful, seeing as how the family members are going to be passing by the place where their family member was killed, and look around the corner and there's a mosque. If it were me, I would feel like they destroyed the buildings just so that they could spread their religion.

I agree 100%.

 

[blakstang98]

What bad people?
And you analogy is ridiculous.


The death toll is less than 3000, also they weren't all American. Obviously there were no Jews because they were warned etc etc.
They didn't 'weasel' their way into buying it either.


To who?
To the victims? They're dead, they don't care.
To their families? Do you know what they think, and do their opinions matter?
To anyone else? None of their business.

This has to be a wind up. Are you really comparing one of the most brutal dictators of the 20th century that ordered, condoned and planned the mass murder and occupation of an entire continent to Islamic hijackers who flew into two buildings in New York?


Yes, it is okay if they "weasel" their way to buy property, that is how your country works and that is how your legal system works, it is completely legitimate in every way, shape and form.

I'll tell you whats disrespectful, the clear double standards by some Americans when the topic of Muslims comes up and the sheer ignorance and gullibility of their views.

I'll make this one last post regarding this issue. Yes, I most certainly did make a comparison to Nazi Germany and Terrorism. If that is difficult to understand, then that's more of problem for you than it is for me.
Many innocent people died and for no good reason, as simple as that.

I stand by my people and my country. People died, regardless if they know I care or not, innocent people died. It amazes how anti-war people are because innocent lives are lost, but what happened in 9/11 was considered ok.

Nobody liked Nazi Germans for what they did to the Jewish, why should I appreciate Muslims for what they did to Americans. You can call me prejudice, ignorant and gullible, but that is how I feel. I don't expect people from other countries to be supportive of America or Americans in general. If your country was under attack, you'll feel very different. Then your views will be just as prejudice, ignorant and gullible as mine. Especially if you lost a loved one.

 

[The Witch]

I'll make this one last post regarding this issue. Yes, I most certainly did make a comparison to Nazi Germany and Terrorism. If that is difficult to understand, then that's more of problem for you than it is for me.
Many innocent people died and for no good reason, as simple as that.

I stand by my people and my country. People died, regardless if they know I care or not, innocent people died. It amazes how anti-war people are because innocent lives are lost, but what happened in 9/11 was considered ok.

Well said!

Nobody liked Nazi Germans for what they did to the Jewish, why should I appreciate Muslims for what they did to Americans. You can call me prejudice, ignorant and gullible, but that is how I feel. I don't expect people from other countries to be supportive of America or Americans in general. If your country was under attack, you'll feel very different. Then your views will be just as prejudice, ignorant and gullible as mine. Especially if you lost a loved one.

Two words.

You're. brilliant.

And that's really how it is. Germans are all seen as Jewish hating Nazis when they're not. So the same could and can happen to other people that have attacked others.

 

[SaShman]

Yea, because the extreme Christians really like bombing innocent people.

Oh, and remember, the extreme Christians LOVE to stone women to death for being raped.

Because we all know how extreme Christians love to strip women of every human right possible.

And we all know Extreme Christians just love trying to prevent abortions because they like the fight.

Don't forget about how the extreme Christians just love to make death threats towards the South Park creators every time they insult God or Jesus.

Lets all remember how the extreme Christians cheer for American deaths.

And remember boys and girls, the extreme Christians are the people that will and have tried to blow you up.


Oh, wait a second--damn. That's right Christians don't do any of that.

The Ku Klux Klan bases many of its principles on the Old testament. While they may not specifically do every thing on your list, they have have done many things which are just as bad.

Lets all remember how the extreme Christians cheer for American deaths.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church#Funeral_pickets

This thread has really just highlighted the intolerance of some members. I don't see how building a mosque near ground zero is disrespectful. It's disrespectful to deny them this right. After all America is the land of opportunity right? I also agree with whoever said that building a mosque there serves the purpose of repairing relations between Islam and the West.

I stand by my people and my country. People died, regardless if they know I care or not, innocent people died. It amazes how anti-war people are because innocent lives are lost, but what happened in 9/11 was considered ok.

Who says 9/11 was ok? Just because I don't hold feelings of resentment towards Islam, it doesn't mean I don't see 9/11 for the tragedy it was.

If your country was under attack, you'll feel very different. Then your views will be just as prejudice, ignorant and gullible as mine.

Sounds to me like you're trying to justify something. As-Salamu Alaykum.

 

[The Witch]

Those "Christians" that say God hates Jews aren't Christians. Because every Christian knows the Jews are God's sacred people.

Therefor they're not Christians.

 

[SaShman]

Yes but they are still basing their beliefs off what they have read in the Bible. Much like how Al-Queda have interpreted the Qur'an in a certain way and have based their beliefs off it.

They are as much extremist Christians as Al-Qaeda are extremist Muslims.

 

[The Witch]

I suppose so. I can't change how you think. So...

 

[Ewan]

Those "Christians" that say God hates Jews aren't Christians. Because every Christian knows the Jews are God's sacred people.

Therefor they're not Christians.

What you have just done is commit the No True Scotsman fallacy. Just because they've done something bad, suddenly they're not a 'true Christian'. It doesn't help either when there isn't a set definition of Christian i.e. the various denominations of Christianity.

But my main point is, a lot of people think this is disrespectful because the extremists were Muslim. Muslims could just as easily say that they aren't 'true Musilims'. Those "Muslims".

Also, if you were really worried about the possible violent consequences of putting a mosque NEAR ground zero, then why do you condone the draw Muhammad day? Where is the consistency? That will almost certainly cause an uproar in the Islamic community but you don't seem to care.

Both situations are the same. People will get offended. But they are well within their rights to do so.


Let them have their mosque. It's a not sign saying "We <3 Al-Qaeda", it's for the majority of Islamic people who are actually good people and to help build bridges between the communities affected by 9/11.

 

[The Witch]

No seriously, you practically can't be a Christian unless you know and understand that God's chosen people are the Jews.

If a supposed "Christian" hates Jews they're literally going against God therefor not making them Christians.

 

[Toshiya]

/ignores religious debates.

I'm divided on this. On one hand, it's not the fault of the Muslim community as a whole, it's not like they ordered the attack

However, it's pretty insensitive. I can understand how this would upset a lot of people who are still mourning. I think it'd be okay say 20, 30 years after the event but it's still a little bit too close, there are still living relatives who remember it well.
I don't know much about it because I was... what... 7 when it happened I think, also I'm not from America. But, I don't think it should happen, really