Men and woman relationships?

[Shaissa]

Not sure what to call this....

Ok so In the Shoutbox we got into a little....discussion about how "men under the age of 50 are not responsible and are only looking for sex" was the discussion of things, and it kinda got a little out of control.

Well this may SEEM true in SOME males, it's not true in all, and I have to say, that it's a little insulting to even think that girls would put most men in one category anyways. If a guy was to put most girls in a category and say they are all the same, I think they would chew us guys out.

But here are a couple questions that i thought of while this debate was going on.

1. If the guy isn't responsible and only wants sex, why does a girl stay with him?

2. Is it fair to say put most men or most girls in one category?

3. If most guys are like this, then aren't most girls like this also?

You can expand on this as much as you want, but lets try to keep it clean and not start bashing one persons idea please, I know I kinda did here, but it was to start a discussion on this, not to insult them, if they find it insulting that I started this, I am sorry, and they can PM someone to shut this down if they want.

 

[Æon Flux]

I happen to like this topic so I cant find offence in it tbh anyhoo on to the Q's

1. If the guy isn't responsible and only wants sex, why does a girl stay with him?

I find most girls in these situations just dont want to be alone,wich is rather pitiful imo. One of my best friends is a male who constantly cheats on his gf even though she alows him to sleep with other girls as long as its infront of her(and when I say cheat apparently its only when he dosent have sexual relations with other girls in front of her thet she deems it cheating) Perhaps a low self worth is in this somewhere but I doubt I would tolerate this at any point i'd rather die alone than with someone who opens the world of HIV to me.

2. Is it fair to say put most men or most girls in one category?

I do. Even though I myself find it wrong and rather sad of myself to do. One shouldnt judge others but deep deep down in me I cant stand the imoral acts of other(and myself). I think people should be more moraly upstanding than they are(myself included)
Even though I shouldnt impose my views of morality against the world its hard for me not to do when just walking outside I see thirteen year olds walking home from school with their chest hanging out of their shirts and thongs shown because their pants barely cover their crotch, Or when ever 4 guys out of 5 have kids with neumorious different women and half the time dont bother to even visit said child let alone pay support,or when a woman thinks breeding is an excuse to live of the system and not bother to work and decides having 3 more kids would be peachy when she dosent even bother with the one she has because shes to buisy dating four different men.
This is probably more apparent to me since I live in a tourist town but its hard not to notice with people like this busting at the seams arround you.

3. If most guys are like this, then aren't most girls like this also? Yes.

 

[Squid]

Well I actually never said that guys only want a girl for sex.
Although I do think a lot of guys want sex and only sex, I do not think it is true for all guys....

I DO think that girls standards in guys has dropped and I think guys know this and have stopped trying as hard.
Guys are a lot ruder these days, they're very metro, they take more time getting ready in the morning than girls do, they are staying home with their mothers longer, they're not trying so hard in their work.
I can't even remember the last time a guy took me on a beautiful date and wanted to pay for me, rather than crying about how its not fair for a guy to pay for dinner. What ever happened to being chivalrous?
I'm not saying pay every time... but damn if you want to impress a girl then stop being a whiny bitch and take her out to dinner

Its old fashioned of me to think this but I like a guy who is manly, he doesn't whine he fixes things around the house, Looking good is great but you don't need to gel your hair every day just to go out to the shops, I want a guy with career aspirations etc.
A lot of guys I know these days do not have a goal in life which is sad.

Now I am not trying to say Girls are better than Guys, Guys suck *insert other annoying feminist things here* In fact I find I get along better with guys than girls... I am a girl hating girl.

These days *MOST* girls are lazy, they don't cook or clean or do anything for their man or even themselves. Take me for example... I can't cook... at all, I live at home with my BF and I can't cook a single meal which is a pretty valuable skill which I am lacking.

I guess girls shouldn't be left to do EVERYTHING around the house though... men should help with the dishes once and a while or vacuum or something, offer to help and it'll get you laid a helluva lot more

Feminists seem to be doubling too haha there are a lot of "we don't need men" bullshit going on, feminists make me sick.

anyway I have rambled...I think none of that even makes sense ahaha... that is one hell of a TL;DR >_>

i'm tired... shuddup.

 

[Sum1sgruj]

There's two sides of the coin. For example, the sex thing:
Sometimes men do want to constantly have sex. However, sometimes woman have a lacking sexual desire.
Either one is unfair to the other, because lets face it- we are sexual beings. A relationship eventually demands a regular amount of sex as it is allows for pleasure and bonding. Too much makes it less endearing, and too less makes the relationship altogether less endearing.

To be honest, there's two sides of the coin on everything about relationships. There is no point in categorizing the majority of a gender because it's simply just a false interpretation. Where a lot of people may fail to please you, there are a lot of people you would fail to please.
This is why they are called relationships,, where you relate.

 

[Shu]

1) Women are diluted every now and again. Picture perfect man, in a picture perfect body. Sometimes it's all about a trophy and they bend over just to have that man around their wrist like it was a piece of tiffany's jewelry. It's mostly either eye candy or the fact that the woman can control him due to her superior intellect and satisfying the man's need to have sex. Meaning.. Buy her things.. etc etc. This type of man would never get any from any other woman with a sense of taste. Be surprised how many marriages start out this way sad enough.

I think Women need that sense of security as well sometimes. Furthermore some women go for the more muscular and strong willed fellas. Even if the man is a womanizer, these type of men though are forgiven multiple times because of how honest they are about it. I think all this type of woman needs is that security blanket sometimes, or that ear after sex. Now this is only stereotyping one type of lady which I've seen around my part tends to be the majority.

2) No, but our minds work like this. You are trained from a very little age to act a certain way, and due to media/porn/swimsuit mags/muscle mags/cosmos/maxims and whatever else is out there, we have perverted our society even furthermore. Everyone wants sex, that's not a problem, but no one wants to love someone just for the very sense of physical pleasure. What happens when it's over? Bye, I'll see you later when I get the need again? Some people are like this, but as they grow older, they grow lonelier. They grow out of touch, and their hair starts to fall our or they start getting fatter due to hanging with the bros/girls and eating/drinking beers like they were 18-21 years old again. Fact is when you get older you start to lose that ability to lose weight at the drop of the dime and a few beers turns to a few pounds.

So you have these women who take all sorts of diet pills, get plastic surgery like they saw on tv, and get botox injections.. all for what? So they can keep on thinking they are in their teens or twenties?

Same with men. They keep taking creatine or other metabolic steroids which ups their heart rate on top of eating pure crap, all for what? To wish to look like a MMA fighter or Muscle man to impress the ladies? Great.. you might get a naive few, but if your personality doesn't fit the bill you'll get called out quickly.

3) Men and women are the exact same when you breaks it down. We all need certain things and unless someone has gone through psychological trauma or has a physical defect then they are going to like sex. Granted most women are picky about their men, and most men not so picky about their women, though I've never quite understood that. I'm totally picky. The personally has to match the looks or else I know they are either psycho/boring/or just a complete fake. Hence a guy should never date someone who looks completely plastic. Hence a girl should never go out with a guy purely based on looks.

I encourage everyone to talk first with no hidden agendas if they intend to date or see a future. If your personalities match.. then so be it. Though some people are always going to be daters, and never settle down.. god bless em.

 

[Tom Badguy]

Not sure what to call this....

Ok so In the Shoutbox we got into a little....discussion about how "men under the age of 50 are not responsible and are only looking for sex"

I'd say more like under the age of 18.

1. If the guy isn't responsible and only wants sex, why does a girl stay with him?

This is a psychological factor. Some examples would be a woman that has no self-esteem and feels that the man they are with is the best they can do. Or a woman may feel that it is harder to start a new relationship with someone then to end it. And this works for bother man and woman in this situation. But there are a variety of reasons.

2. Is it fair to say put most men or most girls in one category?

(I'm not sure if this relates to question 1)This is kind of 50/50. Society is programmed to categorize anything into the majority or a way of thinking. For example, say if most men like sports, then society deems that if you are a man, you like sports. The reason I say that it's 50/50, is because that most men do like sports. But it is unfair to assume that someone would like anything based solely on their gender.

3. If most guys are like this, then aren't most girls like this also?

This question is kind of unanswerable because it based on the an automatic assumption that if one gender does something it should automatically assume the other does as well.

Basically all these are a matter of opinion and your experience in life. For example, I open by believing that a male under the age of 18 isn't really responsible and just wants sex. I think this because I was 18 once and all I wanted to do was get with chicks and sit on my ass. But we all grow up eventually and find deeper meanings in life.

I wouldn't get too wound up in this because it is a different view for everyone.

 

[Steve-O]

hmmmm I agreee with some of this statement but not all of it

for a start, I don't think it all men under the age of 50, after the age of like 30, men start to calm down a little. not all men think about sex all the time, just like not every man like going on dates etc

sex is needed in a relationship to get that 'bond' between two people, I'm not saying that you must have sex everyday but you need sex to have that bond and connection in a relationship.

I think that part of the problem is how early children are being taught sex education, in the UK, where I live, children can be taught sex education as early as 6 years old, I think this can make men to 'want sex and only sex' because they are being taught as a kid and overtime they think 'oo that looks fun lets do it'

on a final note, i don't think it just men that are like that, women can be like that as well sometimes, i think it just in human's nature

the shoutbox brings up some random topics

 

[Channizard]

I think a lot of guys are only after sex. What, wanna fight about it?

People gauge their opinions by their experiences, that in itself is almost fact. If they only have been around guys who cheat on their girl's, then they'll most likely believe that's how all men are. If they've seen long lasting marriages surrounding then, they'll likely believe all marriages are like that.

My parents have been together for 36 years, so when I started asking around and heard about how many friends' parents have divorced, remarried, or are currently separated, you could imagine my surprise that not everyone had the picture perfect family marriage like mine.

Same with guys though.

As soon as I started dating again, I was shocked at the length a guy would go just to get laid. The last guy I was seeing whom I spoke to for a good 2 months before we met seemed like the perfect guy, all around good natured and wholesome. Then after the meet he stopped answering emails, never approached to talk to me, nothing. Only a month later (just the other day) did he actually come forth and apologize, and admit, for using me.

Even THAT'S a minority as most guys won't admit it. Some will just move on and drop it. An if the girl can move on as fast and forget about it, then more power to her. I was a bit shocked and let down myself at first, but I learned to just let it go and leave it at that.

Even still most interest/responses I get these days about meeting guys have only one thing on their mind, it's clearly evident in their texts and the suggestions to go over to their place when apparently meeting for coffee is overrated.

Now I do believe that there are some guys out there not only after sex. But they're a very, very small minority.

 

[Valvalis]

IMO guys and girls have equal promiscuity ratios in society, and they likely always have throughout history, whenever they could get away with it. Age has nothing to do with it either, because I have met plenty of over-50 dudes who've come into my work and thought they were the world's greatest pimp. Trufax.

However...

I think the big problem with any relationship debate like this, and why these debates continue to occur amongst several social circles throughout the years, is that it's next to impossible to study human behavior that hasn't been influenced by society/the media in some way. If you could study a guy/girl relationship that occurred in a vacuum, I think there would be a lot more affection and positive feelings between them, and less stress. Society tends to tell people with noble feelings to throw them in the garbage, because it's not cool to care too much, and being promiscuous is portrayed in the media as being stylish. And so if someone starts out feeling like "Oh, I want to commit to this girl/guy," often some sort of stimulus in society goads them into thinking it's not cool to do so, and then often they'll think "Hey, I SHOULD be going after every chick/guy I can, because I'm worth it" or some such foolish thing, and that's how assholes are born. And there are some people who resist such urges, of course, and are determined to care about more than just sex, but I think in many cases, those people are very confident in themselves and don't need society to tell them what to do. And promiscuous guys/girls can sometimes be said to be "confident," but it's kind of an unhealthy confidence, it's more like just confidence that they can fit into something that society has told them is good, whether it even really is or not. If they're two-timing their partners, then that's not good for the partners, and if they end up throwing aside a potential life partner for the sake of being promiscuous, then it's not good for themselves or the partner.

And I know theoretically, someone could live their whole life with only shallow relationships if they ONLY had these relationships with other equally shallow people, but I doubt that happens very often :/ So more likely than not, someone is going to get hurt by these types of people.

Tldr; society/media encourages us to all be sexually promiscuous, so it's hard to judge individuals' behavior independently of that. People who are promiscuous/irresponsible *could* be that way because they would genuinely want to in a vacuum; however, it's very likely that many of them only behave that way because they're following a fad; if the fad was celibacy, many of them would probably be practicing that instead.

 

[M1ghty Mous3]

1. If the guy isn't responsible and only wants sex, why does a girl stay with him?

Because the women in question is dumb. Or wants sex just as much as he does.

2. Is it fair to say put most men or most girls in one category?

It is not fair at all. Sure there ARE guys out there that just look for sex, same as women. But women tend to think most guys just want sex, because well, we do. That's not to say that is ALL we want though. And the same applies to women. If we hear about a chick whose a lying piece of trash, we tend to avoid them. It happens all the time, but it shouldn't. Though i can see why this can be a good thing.

If a man has the reputation of being a sex fiend, some will avoid him ,some won't

If a women of not keeping her legs closed, some guys go for her, some don't.

3. If most guys are like this, then aren't most girls like this also?

Because men and women are wired differently. Men have 2 heads to think with. Women don't. And i don't think it's that there are more men then women, just that, you don't hear about as many women doing this.

 

[Stoic Hero]

Valvalis pretty much hit the nail on the head.

It's not so much that guys are more promiscuous or girls are more promiscuous, it's based on an individual basis. Are you going to conform? Are you trying to impress? What are you after in the long run?

Personally, I see no benefit of sex without love. It's shallow, fleeting, and ends up hurting one or both of the people involved. What do you gain from it? Absolutely nothing worth more than what you lose from it.

 

[Davey Gaga]

From an evolutionary standpoint, men have evolved to find women most likely to bear their children and to continually reproduce, in order to increase variation in the world and thus chances of survival. Evolution probably hasn't evolved around social modernisations, where man and woman (or indeed same-sex relationships) stay together and are intended to remain monogamous. Down to the very basics, men really shouldn't be held in contempt for aiming to be promiscuous, they're just fulfilling their role in evolution.

From a personal standpoint, humans have developed the social complexity and capacity to take responsibility for their actions, feel guilt, attachment. We've even grown to make up human emotions that most other organisms don't seem to bother with. In that respect, we've gone past our evolutionary needs. As such, I believe it is necessary for all of us to take responsibility for our actions. Biologically, men are designed to have sex with anything and everything fertile, and try to go for younger models the younger they are. However, in days like now, any age other than youth (25 and younger? Generally speaking?) should be responsible for what they do in relationships.

 

[Stoic Hero]

Kerrigan, you're pulling this crap out of nowhere. There's nothing in my biology that says I must have sex with everything I can. Yes, I feel a basic drive/desire for sex, but I can control said desire, so it isn't a biological need, like eating and breathing. I could stop eating or breathing, but eventually, I'm going to have to start again...or die. I could go my whole life without ever having sex and I can still live a fulfilled, joyful life.

Don't tout your own observations as facts for everyone. If it applies to you, fine, but what you said is entirely false for me. It's based on an individual basis and you cannot lump me in with adulterers.

Everyone is responsible for their actions. Truth is rarely subjective, and you'll find yourself at the wrong end of a gun if you try and go your own way without any regards for the rules.

 

[Tom Badguy]

I agree with both of you guys(Kerrigan and Stoic Hero). I see where Kerrigan can get his point of view. It is an instinctual desire for males to reproduce in any species, not only human. And then I see where Stoic Hero rebuttal about controlling desires is coming from. Anything instinctive can be controlled. And any control that is lost is held to the responsibility to the one that lost the control in the first place.

So I think you're both right. You can't stop instinct and evolved behaviors, but you can control them. And everyone is held accountable for their own actions.

 

[Davey Gaga]

Kerrigan, you're pulling this crap out of nowhere. There's nothing in my biology that says I must have sex with everything I can.

Unless you're anti-Darwin then you're just being a bit self-righteous and ignorant. The more we have sex with different people, the higher likelihood for genetic recomibation and thus the development of potentially viable, more advantageous traits that will benefit the species/can be passed on to the progeny. That's basic Darwin.

Yes, I feel a basic drive/desire for sex, but I can control said desire, so it isn't a biological need, like eating and breathing.

Which is exactly what I said in my second paragraph.

Don't tout your own observations as facts for everyone. If it applies to you, fine, but what you said is entirely false for me. It's based on an individual basis and you cannot lump me in with adulterers.

Again, second paragraph - I think we're now at a stage in our evolution as a species to control behavioural instincts rather than be completely driven by them.

 

[Stoic Hero]

Name calling will get you nowhere

"Self-righteous" "ignorant" hmm...no, I was stating a fact, you were stating a theory. And stating it wrongly. Recomibation isn't a word, btw. Yeah, having sex with a lot of different women may (may being the key term here) give my offspring more advantageous traits, but that's not what evolution is. Evolution isn't getting better, stronger, faster, etc. Evolution is "change." This change can be positive or negative, but it is usually the result of an environmental stimulus pressuring the individual species or group to change in order to better survive in that particular environment. It doesn't necessarily provide any advantages, it just allows said species to continue reproducing.

Frankly, it isn't worth the risk. With a ton of Sexually Transmitted Diseases, no way of controlling the genes my children would receive, and also no practical way of supporting so many children, your argument falls rather flat. There is simply NO reason for me to sleep around besides for MY pleasure.

 

[Shaissa]

Hey guys I said in my first post don't start the calling other people's idea's dumb, yes you can argue them, but if your going argue someone else's opinion then back it up....

And I like the ideas that people are coming up with, I guess I was maybe a little over reacting when it first came up, but I found it hurtful to think that girls say "all guys want is sex" when I honestly believe thats not true, and if it is, it's cause the girl allows it to be so, or they only want sex themselves.

 

[Davey Gaga]

Name calling will get you nowhere

"Self-righteous" "ignorant"

That's not name-calling. You were being ignorant to the benefits of promiscuity to evolution.

hmm...no, I was stating a fact, you were stating a theory. And stating it wrongly.

I wish I could say more than "no I wasn't" but in the spirit of avoiding tit-for-tat and trying not to trail off in to a discussion of my intentions, I'll end it there.

Recomibation isn't a word, btw.

...yes it is.

http://www.biology-online.org/dictionary/Recombination

Yeah, having sex with a lot of different women may (may being the key term here) give my offspring more advantageous traits,

Having sex with one woman may give you advantageous offspring. Having sex with 100 women increases the chance that you may give rise to advantageous offspring. In that respect, it's just a numbers game.

but that's not what evolution is. Evolution isn't getting better, stronger, faster, etc. Evolution is "change." This change can be positive or negative, but it is usually the result of an environmental stimulus pressuring the individual species or group to change in order to better survive in that particular environment.

And those survival traits would be things like speed, strength...

It doesn't necessarily provide any advantages, it just allows said species to continue reproducing.

Maybe not, in some cases, but the point is that the advantageous ones will be passed down to the next generation and will serve a beneficial purpose - the ones that are "negative" and don't serve any benefit will die out (broadly speaking). So you're right in a sense.

Frankly, it isn't worth the risk. With a ton of Sexually Transmitted Diseases, no way of controlling the genes my children would receive, and also no practical way of supporting so many children, your argument falls rather flat. There is simply NO reason for me to sleep around besides for MY pleasure.

Which is why I included the fact that I believe we are now at a stage where we should be more responsible because we're more complex than simply succumbing to instinctual drives. I'm AGREEING with you here - my opening point was for the purpose of stripping us down to the basics, it was NOT my final opinion. It might help your blood pressure to hear that.

 

[M1ghty Mous3]

Kerrigan, you're pulling this crap out of nowhere. There's nothing in my biology that says I must have sex with everything I can.

Your penis begs to differ.

Evolution isn't getting better, stronger, faster, etc. Evolution is "change."

Yes it is. It's about adapting better to your current environment. Your not gonna have polar bears live in the arctic and start to see more of them with no fur.

Evolution is about adaption for the better likely hood of survival given your environment.

 

[Stoic Hero]

Your penis begs to differ.

My penis does not control me. I control it. My penis does not have a brain. Don't try to be cute.

There is no evidence suggesting evolution is slowly working us to a perfect being. That is a flawed concept. Evolution is change, but the change cannot be too extreme or the offspring becomes infertile. When the environmental pressure is reduced, the organism's off springs revert back to a former, more natural state.

Experiments with fruit flies were done to test and see how far we could push evolution. Many different changes were made to the fruit flies and their offspring, but anything too extreme (too many wings, too many eyes, etc) resulted in an infertile fruit fly. There is no "improvement" only "change" to adapt to that particular environment. After the pressure is off, the animal's offspring will revert to a model closer to the original.

You can read up on it here:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/04/060422121625.htm

To get back to the original discussion,

We are not controlled by our sexual organs, they only influence our decisions. Ultimately, we make the choice of whether to act on our feelings.