Serious Friend Zone

[seddy-0]

i searched for a thread about this and couldn't find one, so i am starting new.

last night i kinda vented in the shout box about a girl i am heavily interested in decided to ask me for advise on a guy she is interested in. now those few of you that were in the shout box got the story..now i really had to swallow my pride and give as little advise to her, i wanted to just tell her .. "hey.. he is not good enough for you, i am" maybe it'd be easier if i told you how everything started:

i met this girl back in january, and from the start she blew me away. i never had so much fun being with some one. and well we hung out a few times and then she brought me around her people. it was at one of those gatherings that she decided to tell me that she sees me as a "really good friend" yet anytime its me and her together..everyone around us thinks we are dating.. this still happens after she told me that. every so often we'll mess around and she'll go "its because you like me" but i never answered because at the time she had a boyfriend. now all this time she is sleeping in my bed with me, going away with me.. and a few weeks back i was her guest at the anime convention here in pittsburgh, and when she wasn't working at it.. she was with me all the time.

i do anything for her.. all my friends like her.. they say she is a bit crazy but they also say i need some one like that in my life to balance me out a lil and keep me on my toes. but i do anything for her without question, nothing over the top, just little things. burn her cd's of bands i think she'll like. read up on her interests so i could talk to her about stuff she likes instead of always talking about riding my bike and my radio show and cartoon. i try my best to make things more about her and less about me.

now for me venting in the shoutbox, saying how messed up i felt it was that she would ask me for advise about a guy she is interested in, when i am clearly interested in her. there were a few other issues i brought up in the shout box as well, but i can't remember them as of now and i think i was in the moment when i said those things. do you feel my frustration was just because of her acting one way towards me yet keeping me in the friend zone? and also how do you feel about the friend zone?

 

[Squid]

To me it sounds like she is using you. You'll probably disagree because you're head over heels for her but that is, from an outsiders perspective and from reading what you have written, what it seems like.

You said she knows you like her, because she keeps saying "You like me don't you" etc. Well when she brought up the other dude I probably would have asked her why she'd ask something like that when she knows you like her or I would have just taken it as a hint that she is not interested in you at all OR maybe she was using that topic as a way of sussing you out, seeing if you were actually interested in her, seeing your reaction etc but I kind of doubt the last bit.

She could be waiting for you to ask her out or she could be using you. I think it's the latter.

 

[Naoto Shirogane]

I'm more inclined to think she was searching you. I feel she was trying to provoke a reaction in order to judge if you like her. which is very common.

Ask her who the guy is, if she doesn't tell you. I feel she's searching you out as a potential date. If she tells you, She is either denying you, or is totally oblivious and genuinely wants your advice.

I'm optimistic so I hope she's just searching you out. But it could go either way really.

 

[Lirael]

What sort of advice did she ask for?

I am inclined to agree with Cali/The Meddler. I doubt she'd invest so much time in someone she didn't like; unless, as Cali said, she thinks you're gay....but based on her asking whether or not you like her, that is less likely.

How did she say 'really good friend'? I wouldn't be surprised if that's a subtle way of saying she likes you. Girls have a strange ways of doing things. We will often talk using implicit more than explicit meaning; signs may have appeared in her tone of voice, her body language and the context in which she said it (bare in mind, the context could be internal too, as she may have been enjoying the 'couply' interaction in secret. )

Is she a shy person? 'Really good friends' may have been used in defence. Perhaps she likes you, but isn't sure how you feel and, consequently, wants to hide it. If so, she's waiting for you to make the first move, which would explain why she's been asking how you feel about her. She may have said it to judge your reaction.

You certainly sound very well suited to one another.

Whilst typing this, I also thought about how some people will spend time with the person they like without asking for more (a bit like what you're doing, actually). They will do this because being with the person makes them feel happy and warm. They want to share the other person's company. If she's uncertain about how you feel, she may have decided to keep her own feelings secret so that she can safely enjoy your company for longer. Keeping things the way they are is better than losing you by making things more complicated.

I suppose knowing a little more about what she's said about this other person would help me judge whether or not that is likely.

Is it possible, by the way, that the guy she's asking for advice on is you?... (Yeah, girls are that weird. )

 

[seddy-0]

How did she say 'really good friend'?

it was kinda hesitant.. and it was at the pace where we were hanging with her friends.. whom i got a long with great too. she is not really shy.. when i bring her around my circles.. she fits right in perfectly.

she was over my way a few days ago. we went and a few drinks.. she had a bad day.. and she kept saying that i am a sweet heart, and this and that.

It's either she likes you or... she thinks your gay(sorry to be blunt) and that's why you're a cuddle buddy + person she can spend so much time with.

she knows i am straight no worries there.

Whilst typing this, I also thought about how some people will spend time with the person they like without asking for more (a bit like what you're doing, actually). They will do this because being with the person makes them feel happy and warm. They want to share the other person's company. If she's uncertain about how you feel, she may have decided to keep her own feelings secret so that she can safely enjoy your company for longer. Keeping things the way they are is better than losing you by making things more complicated.

keeping me in her "safe zone" i can see that. when we first met, she even comment "you're actually a nice guy..thats unheard of" and i assured her and she learned.. i was not acting.

now onto what was talked about that night i flipped in the shout box..lol she was "flirting" liek she does.. i know when she does it with me and when she isn't well there was a guy that she is "interested" in and he said his ex was bugging to get back with him.. and she asked what i would do. now she said she should put herself out there less.. agreed.. she should, but at the same time i am thinking "maybe you should just get with me and not have to deal with the ordeal." she said she likes to chase.. part of me was thinking i should just get with some one to see how she would react.. but i don't wanna play that game.. i do have friends that would help me with that though...lol

whens he talks about guys.. i never really dwell into asking anything about them as i flat out do not care about them. and anytime one leaves her hanging.. i always cheer her up by telling her "i stand by what i say... their loss"

 

[Sepalcure]

I can relate to this, but on the other end of the spectrum. I've boxed guys in the "friend zone" before whether it was because I didn't feel an attraction to them or I just liked someone else at the time. In regards to your question about what your frustration was directed towards, I can't answer that, seddy. Honestly, only you can answer that as it is your feelings, right? So I'm going to just direct it at you: do you think that your frustrations was just because of her acting one way toward you yet keeping you in the friend zone? How does that even make you feel? You're pissed right?

Best thing to do is to just be honest with her. Honesty will get you your response in the quickest way. You already told us that she sleeps in bed with you, cuddles with you, calls you a "sweetheart" and she's generally amiable and affectionate with you. She obviously cares and confides in you deeply if she's asking for your advice about a guy she's "interested" in (I'm actually interested in why you put that word in quotations). You already know that the extent of your friendship with her is rather remarkable but she's not going to know for sure if you like her, unless you tell her. Sure, she playfully remarks that you "must like her" whenever you do these small selfless acts of kindness like listen to her ramble about failed relationships and potential dating candidates and such. However, seddy, the only way you're going to get a "yes, I've liked you for some time" response or a "no, I only see you as a friend" response from her is if you dive in and ask. Take the plunge, inhale, and ask her--be pithy so essentially keep it short and sweet. But be honest. Judging by the dynamics of your friendship with her, I'm going to assume that she'll respect your honesty and she'll probably take time to think it over. You don't have to pressure her into dating you, that's her choice and ultimately her feelings for you will affect whether she'll decide to be with you or not; but at least you can take comfort in knowing that you would've told her how you felt.

I think holding off on telling her will actually torture you more. I've gained more respect for the guys that have eventually opened up and told me they liked me, then I have for the ones who waited months and even years to let me know. Avoiding the subject or adamantly refusing it won't make the feelings go away, but telling her in a comfortable setting, preferably in a private moment, will lessen the anxieties you'll feel about it. Anyway, that's just my suggestion to you, mate. What ever you decide to do, is obviously up to you. I wish you the best of luck and take it easy, seddy.

 

[seddy-0]

i guess i have come this far that i may as well open this door to you all. i do like her. my biggest fear... is that i tell her how i feel and i get rejected and it creates an awkwardness in what we have built.. causing distance with us.. she is the first girl i completely trust. this girl once wiped my tears from my eyes, kissed me on my cheek and said "don't worry what they say.. you are not a loser" after i admitted something personal to her. i know her life and her past.. as does she know mine.. and every dark cloud she shows me of her past.. i care about her more and more.. this is girl entered my life and turned it upside down.. in a matter of months done more than any person i have dated..and me and her aren't even dating. next saturday she comes to the bmx track for my opening day race.. she has agreed to be the track photographer... i never met someone so interested in being a part of my life... i am speechless. i really am.. but i do know.. i gotta let her know how i feel..from what all of you have said.. that is a must do.. make sure she knows how i feel. and hope for the best and prepare for the wost.

 

[Cruentus]

last night i kinda vented in the shout box about a girl i am heavily interested in decided to ask me for advise on a guy she is interested in. now those few of you that were in the shout box got the story..now i really had to swallow my pride and give as little advise to her, i wanted to just tell her .. "hey.. he is not good enough for you, i am" maybe it'd be easier if i told you how everything started

Not going to lie, I did kind of tl;dr your first post there, but seeing as I know you better than yourself, I think I'm inclined to give a decentish response here.

I know how you are with her, and I know how you feel about her...and I've told you quite a few times that I believe you should either go for an all or nothing with her. It seems like she doesn't care near as much as you do, and you know I know the pain of a one-sided relationships. Being on the bad side of the one-sided relationship is worse than not being in a relationship at all, and knowing that you aren't even in a relationship and it is still one-sided it is terrible. That being said, moving on to the next person.

She could be waiting for you to ask her out or she could be using you. I think it's the latter.

I have to agree with you here. Seeing as I've heard about the girl since he first met her in January, I believe I have a bit more understanding on what goes on. From what I've heard and seen, she really isn't concerned with him, but enjoys the attention he gives her, and that is about it.

 

[seddy-0]

its weird with her.. i know it seems one sided.. but there are times she calls just to talk, hits me up first on aim.. i see on my aim list she is on "1 min" and i am getting hit up. i know i am prolly making excuses for her. i don't wanna give out all her life here. but i feel i got to know a different her, than everyone around her knows. i know she is flirty and i have seen her around her guy friends. but with me, there is that extra something.. when i hung out with her a few days ago.. we just hugged out of nowhere and we just held each other for a good 5 minutes.. didn't say a word.. i do know of her past and can see why she is prolly friend zoning me.. but i hate it.. i hate being friend zoned. my last two ex's friend zoned me.. and it bothers me because i take it a as "you're not good enough" kinda thing. but again when it comes to her... there is just more there. also another intriguing thing, when i am with her and a guy friend calls or texts, she always goes "you don't have to worry he is just a friend" if i am not dating her, then what do i have to worry about? i could be wrong.. i have been oh so many times in the past, but i want to just come out and say to her all that i feel, that i think of her all the time.. i smile anytime we talk, even if its just a quick "hello" on aim.

 

[Cruentus]

Oh trust me, I know you've been wrong a few times in the past. I believe a few is an understatement... I do love my "I told you so"'s. I know that feel, man. I get it, but I've seen friendzoning a lot before man. It really sucks, and sometimes you just need to extract yourself from the situation. If nothing is going to happen, it isn't going to happen. I know you, and you will get more and more attached as time goes on, and if you don't extract yourself from the situation soon, I foresee it getting pretty ugly. It'll be one of those things where you end up asking her out 6 months down the road when you've been friends for so long, and she thinks it's weird and says no, then you freak out about it and go on a mission. Go for broke. Ask her out now.

 

[seddy-0]

people that know of her and me, have told me to get out while i still can only for me to tell them.. i am in too deep to go back.. if i extract myself from her.. there is gonna be damage done to not just her, but me as well. and that is something i never ever considered. its kinda funny. when she friend zoned me.. she was afraid that i was gonna tell her to go away or remove myself from her. the next day when i hit her up on aim, she was actually blown away and shocked that i was still around.
you know that i have dedication to things i want. if its worth it.. i will chase it. i think she right now wants attention where ever she can get it..and every time i am with her she has my full attention.

what i am not getting is.. why every time me and her are together, especially around my people, everyone thinks we are dating. even at the tekkoshocon, all her friends asked when they saw me with her, they would go "is he....?" and she would be quick to say "just a friend"

 

[Cruentus]

Well, if nothing else, you'll get over the pain. But from experience, extracting yourself can also be a good thing. With Autumn and I(My recently ex-girlfriend for those of you who don't know me like Seddy does) we weren't talking for about 3 months before we started dating. I was sick of the friend zone, and told her I was done, and extracted myself. When we finally started talking again, she said I was all she thought about, and that losing me made her realize what she really had in me. Keep that in mind.

Also, because she acts like you are together...but her being so quick to dismiss is a very dismal sign...

 

[seddy-0]

well unlike steff and spencer.. she acts that way around her friends.. when i was seeing steff and spencer, when i was with them around their friends.. you would have never known we were dating.. when we were around my friends (excluding steff, because she was part of my circle already) different story. hell me and spencer made out the entire kitty concert and behind the tree along the first straight at the bmx track ashley hangs on me, hugs me for no reason around everyone..

either way.. ashley is gonna know how i feel. there are some things she told me and after learning that i look at how she is "driving me" she said she likes her nerds..lol and she learned about me doing D20, she obviously knew of my cartoon, and she learned i am a gamer and my love for robotech, final fantasy and gundam, and she is really pushing my cartoon.. and i am yet to drop the bomb of my friends posting my facebook page that they want me to DM another d2o campaign.

 

[Harlequin]

If I were you I wouldn't tell her how you feel. I'd invite her out to the movies or the park or whatever (with a few friends don't make it a date just yet) then if it's going well and she's laughin at ur jokes and she's interested in ur conversations take her back to your place and make a move. If you get shut down you were always gonna get shut down. There's a fine line between her being interested in you and her keepin you as a friend and it sounds like she's just scoping you out seeing if youve got the balls to make a move. If you dont she'll know you dont and youll stay friends. Either way, it's better than standing there explaining how you feel about her she probably knows that already anyway.

 

[Richard B Riddick]

You were cool to me in the other thread. I'll try to return the favor if I can.

1) Look at her past boyfriends. This will give you an indication of what type of person she is attracted to and would consider having a relationship with. In a lot of cases, you will meet women who say they like "guys with nice personalities who enjoy long walks on a beach" but in reality they're attracted to different types of guys & their past history shows it.

2) If her past history is full of questionable men there is a reason for it. A lot of women seem to prefer men who are conquerors or who fit that persona. Even if they don't realize it, they favor that because its easiest and allows them to get around their own weaknesses and shortcomings. Like say if a woman isn't comfortable approaching someone she likes and is interested in, rather than try to be more sociable or learn to approach people she'll just give up on it and say: "oh, well this person isn't giving me any attention so there's zero chance of us ever being together even though he might be a perfect match for me". Seriously, that's how they are. There could be like a perfect man for them sitting 2 feet in front of them & they would never approach them. They don't approach their weaknesses and shortcomings in that way, most times they would rather pretend said weaknesses don't exist.

For women who like questionable men, maybe they're not comfortable talking about sex, admitting they want it or communicating in such a way and so they just find a guy who is an asshole who they know will force the issue which allows them to get around all of those things. I'm not explaining this well. But, yeh, I think that rather than communicate or say things straight out a lot of the time they'd prefer to do things indirectly which complicates things.

3) When you say you would do anything for her, sometimes it helps to remember that women don't necessarily want that. Its not something that is important for them or something they need or even desire. Most are more comfortable being secondary. They grew up washing dishes and doing the laundry while their brothers played outside. They've been second their entire lives, they've consistently been treated as if they weren't special and its what they're used to & comfortable with. If someone came along and told them they were special and worth being loved and other things they would probably think the person who said those things were a scam artist, desperate or clueless. That's how they think.

4) Based on what you've said, I would guess you're emotionally attached to her. If someone else asked you for advice, you wouldn't get upset. The reason you're upset is because you care about her and you're attached to her, emotionally. This means little things that normally wouldn't phase you will easily get blown out of proportion. It may be good to recognize this and make an extra effort to be patient and not get upset about things in dealing with her.

I don't know about other people, but almost everytime I've gotten emotionally attached to someone or had them get attached to me it hasn't ended very well....

Anyway, I did a crappy job of explaining the things I wanted to say... but, hopefully had something to contribute that won't cause the women folk here to be too butthurt over it..

edit:

and also how do you feel about the friend zone?

I don't care.

I've been friendzoned by people who patted themselves on the back who thought they were being super smart broz...

And, I've watched their elation eventually devolve into facebook status updates that say: "WHY DO ALL MY BOYFRIENDS CHEAT ON ME". And, similar things.

I think I'm a pretty good judge of character & there isn't a lot that necessarily surprises me.

 

[Lirael]

Wow, Richard, you know some extremely strange girls.

1) Look at her past boyfriends. This will give you an indication of what type of person she is attracted to and would consider having a relationship with. In a lot of cases, you will meet women who say they like "guys with nice personalities who enjoy long walks on a beach" but in reality they're attracted to different types of guys & their past history shows it.

This depends on the girl. Although I've never been out with someone who's nasty, I have been with guys who possess qualities that I now find extremely unattractive. Each relationship taught me something, about myself and about what I need emotionally.

When it comes to this dream of nice personalities, there are girls who want that, who mean it, then end up with a total idiot. There are several possible reasons for this. To name a couple:

1. The girl spots qualities which she does like. She focuses on the positive, believing and hoping that one day the guy will grow out of the bad qualities. Whether or not this is possible, of course, depends on the qualities. A guy might stop being a party animal one day, but he's less likely to change if he's abusive.
2. The girl is underconfident and believes she's not worth more.

It is useful to look at past boyfriends, though, Seddy, but look at them and then look at how she felt in the relationship, what went wrong and how she reacted to it ending.

2) If her past history is full of questionable men there is a reason for it. A lot of women seem to prefer men who are conquerors or who fit that persona. Even if they don't realize it, they favor that because its easiest and allows them to get around their own weaknesses and shortcomings. Like say if a woman isn't comfortable approaching someone she likes and is interested in, rather than try to be more sociable or learn to approach people she'll just give up on it and say: "oh, well this person isn't giving me any attention so there's zero chance of us ever being together even though he might be a perfect match for me".

Aww, we're not THAT odd. Generally. I feel sorry for any girl who does this.

There are certainly a number of girls who avoid going for the person they really like, but I think this is more often down to a fear of being hurt. If you're with someone who you know isn't right, you can remain a little bit detached and you also don't allow yourself to expect as much nor invest as much in a relationship. I'm not speaking from experience, but I can understand that mindset.

It's scary finding out whether or not things will work with the person you REALLY like. Both men and women will avoid approaching the person they're attracted to the most. If I were to do this - and I haven't - it would probably be because I wanted to preserve my image of them. It feels safer actually dreaming about someone and envisaging a positive future with them. You can believe that it's a possibility, which can be less painful than taking a chance and finding it doesn't work out or finding out they don't like you back. Less complicated too.

This, Seddy, is another reason you should maybe tell her how you feel. She may just need to be given hope, which can only come from you.

3) When you say you would do anything for her, sometimes it helps to remember that women don't necessarily want that. Its not something that is important for them or something they need or even desire. Most are more comfortable being secondary. They grew up washing dishes and doing the laundry while their brothers played outside.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Ok, no way. And even if a girl does think this way, please guys, be the one to break the mould and show her a better way of life.

Seddy, have faith in your qualities and make sure you do what you can to make her happy. Women do like being treated as though they matter. Judging by how this girl responds to you, I believe she sees how great you are loves you because you'd be willing to do anything for her. She doesn't need to hear the words. Your actions are far louder than anything you could ever say. What's important is, she feels safe around you.

As I mentioned before, the reason she may be acting ambiguous about her feelings for you could be related to a desire to preserve what you two have. You're the one who's been there for her, who she can rely on. She may fear losing that figure if she gets involved with you. She's certainly shown fear of losing you before.

when she friend zoned me.. she was afraid that i was gonna tell her to go away or remove myself from her. the next day when i hit her up on aim, she was actually blown away and shocked that i was still around.

Also...

she is the first girl i completely trust. this girl once wiped my tears from my eyes, kissed me on my cheek and said "don't worry what they say.. you are not a loser" after i admitted something personal to her. i know her life and her past.. as does she know mine.. and every dark cloud she shows me of her past.. i care about her more and more.. this is girl entered my life and turned it upside down..

It sounds to me as though she really loves you. Knowledge of personal things about one another is also a perfect foundation on which to build a positive, rewarding relationship! Gosh, if this girl actually were to turn you down, I'd call her crazy! Any relationship you guys have is going to be open, warm and safe.

I suppose it would be good to have more advice on HOW to approach the subject, just so you two can discuss it in a way which doesn't change how things are now if you find our you're not on the same page. Sadly, this really does depend on the girl and how prone she is to darting when she feel disconcerted. I personally wouldn't bolt if someone told me, saying something along the lines of 'I'm not expecting anything, but I need to get this out in the open just in case...'

Just try to discuss it with her in the same way you've discussed other things that are personal! She's stuck by you through so much, and you have stuck by her. It sounds like she's worth it and sounds like she respects you enough to actually respond appropriately.

 

[Steve-O]

i'm going to throw in my own views here, this seems to be quite like the situation i been in a few times before, including when I first met my girlfriend

the first thing that would help is understanding your feelings, to me it seems your quite intrested in her.... and you have emotional feelings for her, the fact that you would do anything for her shows that, how often do you think of her, also what feelings do you get when your hanging out with her, do you see yourself being together as a couple, these are just the few questions you may need to ask yourself, then this should able you to understand your feelings a bit more. and then you will know where you stand with your feelings towards her.

to me, it seems that she likes you, the fact that she spends loads of time with you, and not with any other boy (that what I get from reading the thread) that shows that she must have some feelings for you, she trusts you as well due to the fact that she slept in the same bed as you, trust me girls wouldn't do that unless they trusted you or liked you in some way or another. also she asked if she liked you, my girlfriend did the same thing when I first met her and we became good friends, every day it was 'do you like me' that her seeing if you got feelings for you.

what I would do is one daytake her out, it can be alone or with a few friends, and during the day or after the friends are gone, just sit down and start talking, just get a convo going like you would normally do, then slip in a few questions like 'what do you think of me' or 'is their any boys your intrested' or get talking about relationships and that, and then just see how that goes, if it goes well then tell her that you like her, it never good to hide your feelings, it best if you tell her them even if it just to know where you stand, because you could lose a great chance for a loving relationship, I almost did that with my girlfriend but I told her about my feelings, and now we been together for over a year, so you can get a good result.

 

[Richard B Riddick]

Wow, Richard, you know some extremely strange girls.

I think you're pretty unique yourself.

Each relationship taught me something, about myself and about what I need emotionally.

I wonder if you realize how far in the minority you may be?

Most women I've come across simply recite a litany of prejudices and bad experiences they've collected throughout their lifetime as "knowledge". They don't rationalize things & they certainly do not learn.

The only thing that can really be said about them is...

1) They can't stand being by themselves. They're usually desperate and starved for attention, need acceptance, etc. They'll listen to trendy music to fit in. They'll even go so far as to try to steal peoples personalities. They'll betray people and do whatever they think they need to to be "cool". Its all wasted time and effort.

2) They usually wind up selling out their values, beliefs and independence in order to fit in and be "cool" with a group of people who usually couldn't care less about them. I could give examples but most would disgust people I'm thinking..

3) All their relationships are the same. They never really change or learn. They're incapable of imagining they're the reason for their own failure. They comfort themselves saying things like... "well it wasn't meant to be" which defer the blame away from themselves to some unimaginable cosmological phenomena.. Thus, they never realize the reason for the failure lies with them. This causes them to make the same mistakes over and over and over as they're incapable of considering the reason for it lies with their own decisions.

Of course, there are exceptions. But, for the most part I think that seems to be the type I see on a normal basis.

When it comes to this dream of nice personalities, there are girls who want that, who mean it, then end up with a total idiot.

*shrug*

Aww, we're not THAT odd. Generally. I feel sorry for any girl who does this.

There are certainly a number of girls who avoid going for the person they really like, but I think this is more often down to a fear of being hurt. If you're with someone who you know isn't right, you can remain a little bit detached and you also don't allow yourself to expect as much nor invest as much in a relationship. I'm not speaking from experience, but I can understand that mindset.
.

Sorry, I'm not explaining myself well.

What I mean is, if she's unhappy and dissatisfied with something she won't necessarily come straight out and say it. She'll try to throw hints and find an indirect way of saying it. But, she won't consider the possibility that not being honest and saying things straight out is a bad practice or a shortcoming. There are exceptions, but that is the norm a lot of the time.

Its the same with how women approach relationships. They tend to work around their insecurities and weaknesses. If there's something they're insecure about, they'll build a fantasy around their insecurities.

Like, if they're insecure about approaching men or making the first move, they'll probably have a fantasy about a guy who approaches them so they don't have to.

Rather than attempting to address their insecurities or weaknesses and deal with them on their own, they usually try to find a guy they think will fix it for them in a way.

And, as long as they rely on others in that way rather than themselves they'll always be at someone elses mercy.. They'll be dependent and things won't necessarily change.

That's what I tend to think anyway......... but, I'm not really doing my point of view justice..............

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Ok, no way. And even if a girl does think this way, please guys, be the one to break the mould and show her a better way of life.

I'm not sure where you're from. But, Its not as if women in america have high standards. Generally, the less effort you make to appear a good or decent person and the less effort you make to pretend that you have standards or care about things the more women will like and admire you.

If you try to pretend you're a decent person & that you care about women and would do anything for them & things like that, people will just assume that you're too unattractive or uncool to get laid and that you're desperate and trying wayy too hard.

In a lot of cases, they'll just assume you're a loser & that its cool to mess with your head and walk all over you. There is at least one person on this forum who has treated me that way for exactly those reasons.

That may be the type of materialistic and jaded mentality most people have.

It may be the reason why seddy-0's gurl is still surprised that he is still talking to her.

In her world, men who aren't egocentrist pricks don't exist...

So, while it is kind of a bummer and a bit sad I guess, if I weren't completely de-sensitized to it by now... That's just the way that things are unfortunately.

 

[Bones]

Most women I've come across simply recite a litany of prejudices and bad experiences they've collected throughout their lifetime as "knowledge". They don't rationalize things & they certainly do not learn.

The only thing that can really be said about them is...

1) They can't stand being by themselves. They're usually desperate and starved for attention, need acceptance, etc. They'll listen to trendy music to fit in. They'll even go so far as to try to steal peoples personalities. They'll betray people and do whatever they think they need to to be "cool". Its all wasted time and effort.

2) They usually wind up selling out their values, beliefs and independence in order to fit in and be "cool" with a group of people who usually couldn't care less about them. I could give examples but most would disgust people I'm thinking..

3) All their relationships are the same. They never really change or learn. They're incapable of imagining they're the reason for their own failure. They comfort themselves saying things like... "well it wasn't meant to be" which defer the blame away from themselves to some unimaginable cosmological phenomena.. Thus, they never realize the reason for the failure lies with them. This causes them to make the same mistakes over and over and over as they're incapable of considering the reason for it lies with their own decisions.

Of course, there are exceptions. But, for the most part I think that seems to be the type I see on a normal basis.

As much as you are entitled to your opinion, as a woman, I find this quite offensive, women are NOT always the failure in their relationships, most of the time the relationship is broken off on mutual understanding, or if either sleeps around, it's a 2 sided thing. Also, I know a lot of independant women, one of my best friends was in a relationship and broke it off because she wanted to be on her own, there are also women that are career driven and don't have time for relationships etc. Not all women are needy fakes as you are making them out to be, stereotyping is a nasty habit really.

Anyways, back on topic:

As everyone else has said, just talk to her and be honest, the worst that can happen is she says she only sees you as a friend, and that's what the 2 of you have already got anyway, if she knows you well enough, she will still see you in the same light as she did before you say anything to her. So I don't think you have anything to worry about in that respect.

From what I've seen on this thread, I wouldn't think she is using you, at the moment she sees you as the really good friend she thinks you are, and it's obvious she doesn't want to lose that. Maybe there are feelings inside her that she's trying to cover up to maintain your friendship, and she probably thinks it's better if she dates other people, maybe she's testing your feelings, there are so many possibilities, but you won't know the truth unless you ask her.

Plus you say she trusts you, so honesty is a big part of this friendship anyway, so you have to maintain this honesty to maintain the trust between you, what if someone finds out how you really feel and tells her for you? You have to go for it, and the sooner, the better.

You seem to love her, and reading what you said, it seems very cute. I'm rooting for you!

 

[seddy-0]

its always the ones you don't expect to fall for that this stuff happens with.

she has a dominant personality and i find that well attractive. see, i have the attitude that i wanna take over the world. she has a dominant and take charge personality.. she stays on me about things like doing my cartoon regularly and helps me find new music for my radio show at times.i see how she is around her people. she is a very friendly person, easy to get along with. her type of guy is kinda nerdy. is what she once described. and that was before she knew of my side things i do. my D20, magic the gathering.. love of gundam and final fantasy. when she first met me, she only met the bmx side of me. but as we talked more. she learned a lot more about me. and as she was open more and straight forward with me, i was more open with her.
when i hang out with her. i do joke here and there saying "you need to stop playing with kids and get with a man" or you keep playing with the rest, you gotta get with the best" i don't wanna give out some details as to her life because i dunno if she is gonna join this site as i asked her a few times since i came back here.
my track family loves her. me and her mess around a lot. poke and tickle each other wrestle around.. one time she accidentally punched me in the face as were messing around. she was punching at my arm and i went to do a wrestling take down and well perfect timing as i lunged at her, she was still swinging at my arm and instead connected with my jaw..lol now everyone at the track for fun asks me what the safety word is.. and when i am riding my local track, every one yells "umbrella" when i am flying through the track.
so she has really made a huge impression on my peers as well as impacted my life. and i just met her in january.. a week after my ex broke up with me on new years eve.