Outrage as American mum-to-be uses Twitter and YouTube to chronicle her abortion.

[Shu]

Meh I'm sure far worse has happened else where. It's like the Chechnyan/ Russian conflict videos. There have been many public gruesome executions online, and unfortunately in my teen days I was curious enough to know what the heck they were. Mortified me forever, but still a stiff wake up call.

I mean to be honest it's just a media issue. If it is allowed, well then I'd be very surprised. If not then it's just another censorship. I don't agree with her doing this first of all, but then it's for my own personal reasons.

Since my views different, I'll leave it at that. This isn't USA issue, this is a world wide issue.

 

[Rydia]

By the way, I'm (technically) American, and I'm totally not insulted. I know there are lots of dumb people in this country, and to disagree with that is to turn a blind eye. Hell, the country was founded via gratuitous genocide, after all, and then they kept people enslaved for hundreds of years just because they looked different. Honestly, what the fuck?

But I wasn't saying that American's are not dumb. I was saying that it is not just Americans, but other people in the world can also be dumb. It's just a fad to bash only America for it. And America was not the only nation that has ever had genocide or slavery (which the native Americans were not all peaceful people, there were tribes warring with each other for land). Look at ancient history.

 

[Valvalis]

Just for the record, Gamingway, I've not seen a single person disagree that there ARE dumb people in this country. This thread proves right there that there are stupid people here. I was referring to all of the people who live in America. We're not all stupid enough to do shit like that and it's insulting to group us with those who are when there are those of us who aren't. It's no different in any other country either. Every country has really fucking stupid people in them. It's called humanity. It's not just America.

Sorry for the OT-
I know it's wrong for people to stereotype like that, but I don't honestly think anyone on here meant any harm by it. There does seem to be a negative image of us Americans floating around lately, from what I can tell--obsessed with instant gratification/consumer goods, plagued by obesity, prone to believing whatever's on TV, etc--and I think sometimes maybe people from other countries just latch onto that "mindless cattle" image whenever they hear about something dumb occurring within America's borders, even though it can happen elsewhere. But you can't really blame people too much for stereotyping, either--it is a hard habit to break, and it's even harder because it's so ingrained into society as a method of standardization. I know I grew up thinking a whole bunch of really stupid things about people, and it just takes a while to get over it. That doesn't make it right, but when I hear people making generalizations about "Americans" (which is really taking a broad step because there is such diversity) I really can't let myself get insulted, because I know they haven't met everyone in this country, or me, and they're just trying to get some sort of point across about a select number of dumb people who happen to live in America. That was really all I was saying. Sorry for horrendously derailing this thread.

Oh, and Blackstang and Rydia (btw sorry--I wasn't meaning to quote you directly, just the topic in general)-- I don't know why it sounded like I was saying all that stuff only happened here, I wasn't. Honestly, I'm rereading it now, and I can't figure out how I came across that way. I was just making a comment on how dumb those things were--it supported my statement that "some people in America are, indeed, dumb" and as much as I love to rant about the way this country was formed, I figured it would be a good place to outlet it. Trust me--I have a Bachelor's in history--I know there were plenty of things in the world to bitch about before America was even a twinkle in Europe's eye.

Wow, I think this is the most I've ever been quoted in a thread. Guess I should probably keep my mouth shut from now on. If I piss anyone else off, I'm sorry in advance.

 

[.Ted]

Yeah but it's not just American's that are like that. I have talked to and even met people from other countries who are just like you describe. It's a personality type and it's unrealistic to believe that it is just people in America that act that way.

Ah thread is off topic!!!! D:

Again, I do apologize for what I have said. Yes, I know that people are like that (I met Mexicans, Asians, Venezuelans, etc.). I want to tell you all right now that I am Hispanic, and I have no right in criticizing Americans. I feel bad about it. I don't think I can apologize enough times to show how much I regret some things that I said, so let's move on. I know us Hispanics are no picnic either.

But before I get back to the topic, I want to say that each nation has their own stereotypes. Many Americans are known to be ignorant, Mexicans and Irish are sometimes stereotyped for drunkenedness, all Texans are cowboys, etc. I've met some nice people as I grew up in the U.S., but we all have to understand that lots of people from all over the world come to live here. I've been raised that sometimes, it's all about first impressions. Lots of people have their eyes set on this country, thinking about the "American Dream." If their entire country eventually looks at us as a bunch of ignorant hicks, we can safely say we brought it on ourselves.

-----

Back on topic, the Internet has evolved a lot since it was created. New websites like Twitter gives us more ways to expose ourselves. Sadly for this woman, her decision on posting about her abortion on the World Wide Web is not the wisest she ever made. The viewers -- who will really remain unaffected whether the woman aborts or not -- have sent death threats to her son, who is known to have special needs. It's sad to see the amount of hate that is this great, no matter where it is.

But if this woman just wanted attention, at least she got it.

 

[blakstang98]

Oh, and Blackstang and Rydia (btw sorry--I wasn't meaning to quote you directly, just the topic in general)-- I don't know why it sounded like I was saying all that stuff only happened here, I wasn't. Honestly, I'm rereading it now, and I can't figure out how I came across that way. I was just making a comment on how dumb those things were--it supported my statement that "some people in America are, indeed, dumb" and as much as I love to rant about the way this country was formed, I figured it would be a good place to outlet it. Trust me--I have a Bachelor's in history--I know there were plenty of things in the world to bitch about before America was even a twinkle in Europe's eye.

Wow, I think this is the most I've ever been quoted in a thread. Guess I should probably keep my mouth shut from now on. If I piss anyone else off, I'm sorry in advance.

I'm sorry as well. I just tend to get a little feisty when it comes to any kind of anti-American comments, but I suppose I was a little out of line with what I said. As you can see, this thread has already been and continues to be derailed by such things. But it was unfair on my part to be so quick to jump on you (no pun intended) about that. But no worries, when it comes to anything political, I tend to unintentionally piss people off too. I wouldn't hold it against you though, it is just a forum afterall.

I have nothing further to post on the subject, so my post has no value added, it was merely to clear the air.

 

[The Illusive Man]

Obviously I've not read the link, who knows what viruses one can get from the Daily Mail, but I assume the dregs of society that congregate there probably couldn't help themselves from posting.

I didnt actually notice this until now, but are you for real Hal? I for one am getting really tired of your guttersniping remarks and childish style of one upsmanship, do you HONESTLY think I would post a link to something that was virused? It's seriously time you considered growing up a little bit and packed it in with the petty insults.

As for the topic, I can understand how people can become passionate about there respective countries and how people can generalise it, its something very easily done and yet something else to blame the media for, afterall they chose to put the headline as "Amercian woman" rather than just sticking to the facts and dropping the country of origin simply in the body of the story.

 

[Rydia]

I dunno I guess it was this.

By the way, I'm (technically) American, and I'm totally not insulted. I know there are lots of dumb people in this country, and to disagree with that is to turn a blind eye.

It just came off like you were singling out Americans. And maybe it's is because I read Mandi's post about not insulting American's right before I read yours and it sounded like a response to hers. But now that I read only your post it does nto come off that way. Sorry that I misunderstood you.

 

[Valvalis]

Thanks guys And I'm sorry again for causing such a problem, I didn't mean to.

 

[eye of the divine]

I personally do not have kids and never want kids however a professional can only give you so much information on what that experiance is and some feel very uncomfortable discussing it due to their own personal beliefs.

I don't think young people know how traumatic this experiance can be and having seen something like this first hand might make you think about having an abortion.

However the way she has gone about this is wrong there is no doubt about this, there are much more tactful ways of doing this and that definatly wasn't one of them.

 

[SapphireStar]

Safe sex then love. She said she wasnt going to have any other children after her son. Wow, condoms hard to come by then in American? No pun intended and I highly doubt it! The death threats on her son are uncalled for, but surely she knew what a stupid thing this was to do didnt she?? This sort of thing is meant to be personal and private. Lord everyones blogging about anything and everything ever since Belle de jour started this off!! She should have kept it private and if she wanted to help other women through this, well she should have gone through the proper channels then. Helped at a hospital or clinic. But this ... silly, silly woman.

 

[Stoic Hero]

I look at it this way. If my mom had aborted me, I would never have had a chance at life. I'd never have had a first kiss, a first dance, a first date, a first football game, a first Final Fantasy, a first A on a test, a first F on a test, a first car...etc. I don't think it should be the mother, the father, or anyone's decision whether that baby lives or dies. It should be given a chance at life, to experience things like I did. It's not anyone's place to kill that baby, even if it's her body. She chose to have sex, which led to the kid. Abortion is avoiding the consequences of your actions, and denying a child life at the same time. To me, that's just...sick.

 

[Channizard]

For everybody who says she should have been on birth control, she was... an IUD is a very effective (99.98%) birth control method that can last for up to 5 years at a time in your uterus. Far easier on a woman in a monogamous relationship who doesn't want to take a pill every day or wear a condom.

Secondly, I can understand where she's coming from. If I had one special needs child, I would be far too paranoid and afraid about having a second with the same, or worse, conditions. I can only imagine how difficult taking care of one must be, and to add a second? It would be far too much strain on her. And, if I'd known (or had a suspicion) that my child might be handicapped in some way, I would abort it... I wouldn't want to bring a child into the world where it would have a difficult life, mentally, physically or emotionally.

She did it, in the wrong way (Twitter? Really? A Blog would have been more tactful) but I believe her intentions were pure in that she wanted to make it okay to make difficult decisions like these, and to give younger women out there the courage to do it if they're afraid, whatever their circumstances.

 

[Mikko]

Out of curiosity, why did she want to abort her second child. I know her first child had special needs, but that doesn't mean that the second child will. She could have had the chance to have a normal child. Did she just only want one child?

I don't know how I feel about her broadcasting this online. It seems more like an attention seeking thing to me. I mean, she had to know that this would be controversal.

I would imagine she didn't want a second child because she may of thought it would do more bad than good. Even if the child was 'normal' (=_= for a lack of better word), I can still imagine it would've been hard work.

Personally, I'm up in the air about abortion. Reason being, it's all fine and dandy for me to hate on it but I know if I got pregnant I would consider abortion. So for me, I'm just neutral.

As for her, I also see where she is coming from. I can imagine having a second child, special needs or not, would be hard. It's hard enough raising a child with special needs. Of course, I don't have any children but one of my aunties has special needs. She's now 36 and still requires a lot of attention and help.

But her broadcasting it is entirely her decision. It's up to her if she wants to hang her dirty laundry out in public. Those who responded badly are free to respond that way, albeit it's very childish of them but it's her own fault for putting it out in the open like that, if you think about it.

 

[Michael]

Why is acceptable for a woman to chronicle their pregnancy, but not their abortion?

I don't understand this double standard. I am not a believer in abortion myself, but I am not this woman. Nor do I have any right to decide what she is allowed to say, or criticise her for saying it, just because I think it's the wrong thing to do.

I know quite a few women who wrote pregnancy diaries while they were pregnant, because it was such an emotionally important experience for them and they wanted to share it with people who understand and empathise with what they were going through. This woman is no different.

I don't know why she got pregnant, or why she had an abortion, but if other people connect with her experience and find some comfort and support through it, it is not an inherently bad thing. Condemning her for having an abortion makes someone no better a person than they claim her to be.

There's a really simply rule in this universe regarding this sort of thing that people seem incapable of following... if you don't like it... don't look it at!

 

[GalaxyFlare]

Out of curiosity, why did she want to abort her second child. I know her first child had special needs, but that doesn't mean that the second child will. She could have had the chance to have a normal child. Did she just only want one child?

I don't know how I feel about her broadcasting this online. It seems more like an attention seeking thing to me. I mean, she had to know that this would be controversal.

I think it has to do with her not wanting to burden herself any further or the world any further by having another child and not being able to support herself and additional children.

I know abortion is a big thing in the States and most other places but its hard to came away from this feeling good about what she has done, its a new life and has not even been given the chance to lay eyes on the world and she had it aborted.

This makes me very sad, she could have put the child up for adoption in the end, a selfish choice to not make her life any harder or a responsible choice
to look after her 1st child undistracted?

Edit: thats the thing with good points other people get them aswell lol

 

[Dee]

Why is acceptable for a woman to chronicle their pregnancy, but not their abortion?

Because they deal with two different matters; one of which is extremely controversial, even to this day.

Pregnancy, the miracle of childbirth, being a mother is apparently one of the most satisfying things a woman can go through. It chronicles the stages before life; a life that is potential and new and that is a good thing (hell if I know, though. I've yet to experience it and I hope that doesn't happen for a looooong time).

Abortion, on the other hand, brings death. I can see where many would not want to showcase the situation; however, for whatever reason many people cannot accept that death is as natural a thing as life. We don't look at it that way, though. Death is horrible. Death brings pain and suffering. Taking away life from a child that hasn't even been born yet sounds bad, but it all depends on how one views the subject. Personally, I wouldn't chronicle such a matter, but I also understand this woman's reasons for doing so.

It's not like she's making it where everyone can see even against their will. Her Twitterage may be public, but you don't have to go and read her tweets and look at the pictures. You still have the choice to avoid it. Then again, what about the other women who are scared and lost and frightened to death about making the same choice? Maybe they're wavering? Maybe they desperately need guidance? This is just one place they can turn to...as odd as it may be. *shrug*

I get it. I also think she's one ballsy broad.

 

[Michael]

It was a rhetorical question. I am sadly aware of the answer - because it makes people uncomfortable, and most people don't like being faced with things that make them uncomfortable.

Very well said though, Dee. You put it much better than I ever could. *applauds*

 

[eye of the divine]

Pregnancy, the miracle of childbirth.

Its also the fact that you are chronicalling the life of a parasite which is basically what a baby is before its born. that to me is weird.

denying a child life at the same time. To me, that's just...sick.

sicker than a life of misery, poverty and always being thought of 2nd? because thats what some people have to look foreward to.

 

[Dee]

Its also the fact that you are chronicalling the life of a parasite which is basically what a baby is before its born. that to me is weird.

xD Hence, why I said it really just depends on how the individual person views it. The majority view is that it is 'beautiful'. Personally, I find it based on second-hand views to probably be one of the most horrible, disgusting things a person can ever experience. Right now my step sister is pregnant with her first child. Apparently, she's bed ridden because she's so swollen and sick. The want to take the kid out a few weeks earlier because she's in such bad shape. I don't know why anyone would want to put themselves through that, but hey, whatever. You get a kicking, screaming, financially, mentally and emotionally leeching youngster out of it.

If a woman wants to chronicle her personal experience, she should be be able to. If a person wants to be outraged about it, they should have the right to be.