I hear a lot of people saying things like Square Enix is a shadow of its former self, that they've lost their touch and that they have no idea where they are going with the FF and KH series, exactly what have SE done in recent years to gain so much hate?
What's wrong with Square Enix's current direction?
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Well... People say after FFX that most of the other games were "not as good" and they spanned KH into so much that they have more spinoffish games than main games...
That and the FFXIII mix... guess it depends on how you look at it.
I have liked Square-Enix for a while now... just wish we could get a new Dragon Quest Star Ocean and Saga game
Jdeadevil
Blue Mage
It's all opinions, but I think it generally started with XIII. Sure people hated XII and praised VII, but those people didn't seem to have their eyes truly open to what the company was aiming for, which was for something different. In my opinion that sort of change was good because the formula for good RPG games was still there, the game kinda proved what elements could be changed while keeping the franchise consistent; some people disagree with that and gave up with X-2 for that very reason, and that's fair enough, but you just need to appreciate these things with more attention to design and atmosphere to notice what Square kept in the game. XIII wasn't a complete disaster, even though I've discussed with many people the problems I thought it had compared to the previous game, I didn't think it was enough to stop playing. My experience with XIII-2 was pretty much the same. Lightning Returns on the other hand s is what convinced me that Square was probably just wedging games in to keep players' occupied. Look up Jono's review on Amazon.co.uk of the PS3 installment if you're curious what I thought of the game in minor detail, but it was drastically different and pretty much the opposite of XII in terms of how appropriate the changes were to keeping the franchise consistent. Honestly, in the same way I'm hoping Watch_Dogs restores my faith in Uibsoft, I'm hoping even more, given its development time, that FFXV revitalizes the taste in my mouth LR:FFXIII gave me.
I remember reading an article saying that FFVII let the franchise down for setting the standard too high, talk about authors speaking for themselves..
I remember reading an article saying that FFVII let the franchise down for setting the standard too high, talk about authors speaking for themselves..
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The last game I enjoyed was X. X-2 was meh, XII was ok and XIII was god-awful.
They're just doing the simple things wrong in terms of XIII
Too linear, bullshit story & dull characters.
Not to mention the hideous battle system. Try focusing less on graphics and more on actual gameplay; that might help.
They're just doing the simple things wrong in terms of XIII
Too linear, bullshit story & dull characters.
Not to mention the hideous battle system. Try focusing less on graphics and more on actual gameplay; that might help.
I don't think they've been doing stuff wrong long enough for us to call it a 'direction'. The XIII series is really the only series that I would say was bad, and even then I personally really enjoyed XIII-2 (haven't playe LR yet). How can people say that the company is 'going downhill' simply because of one game. I understand if people are saying they haven't liked a game since X, but I feel like pretty much nobody was saying this before the XIII series.
spoonyrogdrumps
Blue Mage
Well for starters, Sakaguchi and Uematsu aren't working for Square. Beyond that though, if one were to just draw a blank slate and wipe Final Fantasy from their memory and judge the games themselves since Squinex took over the games are just not that good. Everything from the story and the narrative to the gameplay. I'm playing Final Fantasy IV Chronicles PS1 edition for the first time and it's better than XIII. That's saying something.
Hmm, that would depend who you asked. Many say that the games haven't been as good since X, not X-2, which was still before the merger. Personally I much prefer X-2, XII and even XIII-2 to VII, which is a game many people absolutely adore and say is the best they've played. There is no way to 'draw a blank slate' because if that were the case then how would anyone judge the games at all? They'd know nothing about them right? How much a person enjoys a game comes down to taste, it always will and it always has. Beyond glitches etc. it's all about personal preferences, and if we were all to draw a blank slate then every game would be on the same level, because nobody would like anything better than anything else.
spoonyrogdrumps
Blue Mage
It would depend on who you ask. I'm just taking a guess that you are a woman/girl. Not that being so is a bad thing. Most men/boys don't like X-2 and XIII-2. They would judge the game based on their own interests. Most people even women (as long as they don't loath men) will agree that Square abandoned it's male fanbase with games like X-2 etc. So, while I agree with you I disagree. More men atleast in America play video games. I guess you could say that my comments are based on the American male demographic because that's what I am. So again while I agree with you I disagree.
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The last game I enjoyed was X. X-2 was meh, XII was ok and XIII was god-awful.
They're just doing the simple things wrong in terms of XIII
Too linear, bullshit story & dull characters.
Not to mention the hideous battle system. Try focusing less on graphics and more on actual gameplay; that might help.
Pretty much that for me as well. X, despite "following the red arrow" was truly an amazing game. I loved the atmosphere, the story, characters(yes even Tidus), music, blitzball, it was the last one I played that actually "had me". The battle system was the best in the series in my opinion. Easily. I fucking LOVED the battle system.
My honest opinion is that, in general, people just like to bitch. XII was a good title, never played any of the XIII games, but for such a hated game, there sure were a lot of hours sunk into it by people around here. I do still play XIV and I love it.
I think people themselves lost their sense of direction as to what they wanted after the classic formulas failed. The games made, from what I've seen, are still great additions to the particular genres they fit into while being brave enough to do something new. It's kinda like how you hear nothing but how people hated the flood of the FPS genre, but it's all anyone ever played (often including those who bitched). They make what sells...what can ya do.
Just my $0.02 on it, though.
I think people themselves lost their sense of direction as to what they wanted after the classic formulas failed. The games made, from what I've seen, are still great additions to the particular genres they fit into while being brave enough to do something new. It's kinda like how you hear nothing but how people hated the flood of the FPS genre, but it's all anyone ever played (often including those who bitched). They make what sells...what can ya do.
Just my $0.02 on it, though.
Ultimaja
Banned
Am I the only one cognizant of the fact that things got weird when.. Squaresoft joined Enix? Just in general, both companies games changed in their styles and demeanor; their past game making ways were basically left behind.
FFX was the last one to be made by SS before Enix collided with them, and you have FF taking a big turn. XII, for instance, is obviously inspired by the hands of the Star Ocean creators, probably to celebrate their union.
XIII is most certainly a move to join the ranks of next gen, figuring that traditional gameplay is going out of date, and that meshed with these game producer's union, huge differences are to be expected.
FFX was the last one to be made by SS before Enix collided with them, and you have FF taking a big turn. XII, for instance, is obviously inspired by the hands of the Star Ocean creators, probably to celebrate their union.
XIII is most certainly a move to join the ranks of next gen, figuring that traditional gameplay is going out of date, and that meshed with these game producer's union, huge differences are to be expected.
spoonyrogdrumps
Blue Mage
Your playing FFIV. I'm playing that now for the first time! Are you purchasing the HD remaster of X/X-2. I am but I'm hoping to delete that one. It's a shame they just won't let us purchase one.
X-2 was still Squaresoft, so saying the franchise has gone downhill since the merger doesn't work if you're also saying it's gone downhill since X. I wouldn't say that Square abandoned their male fanbase with X-2, I mean Rikku wasn't wearing that costume for the girl gamers. It's not the story I like in X-2, it's the gameplay, there is so much to do and I liked the levelling system and the battle system, yes the story could have been far better, same with XIII-2, but personally I rate them higher than VII because I didn't enjoy the gameplay in VII. Nonetheless, it's down to taste, and I don't think it's possible for anyone to judge a game with no bias once they've played it because personal preference will always play a part.
Nope, X-2 was made by Squaresoft before the merger with Enix.
spoonyrogdrumps
Blue Mage
X-2 was Square Enix. Sorry you are wrong.
Here's the wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_X-2
Mod edit: posts merged*
Thanks Mod for the edit my bad should of combined them
It was released under SquarEnix because the merger happened on April 1st of 2003. X-2 was released only 18 days prior to that, so they used it as the first game released by the merged company. It could not have been created by SquareEnix since the companies had not even merged at the time. So sorry but you're wrong 
it was not made by SquareEnix.
The page you linked to says this:
"It was released in Japan shortly before the merger between Square and Enix."
it was not made by SquareEnix.The page you linked to says this:
"It was released in Japan shortly before the merger between Square and Enix."
spoonyrogdrumps
Blue Mage
I agree with you that it's preference. Unfortunately you are out numbered. But, I'm sure your aware of that. As far as the way Rikku was dressed or any of them for that matter for X-2 being made for men...........HAAAAAAAAAAAA. I'm sorry I just couldn't help myself. Men hated it. Any boy/man that liked it was more pervert than gamer. I'm not saying there aren't men that didn't like it there probably was but not me. It's been known to most people that Squinex took over from X-2 on. There are some gameplay elements that weren't bad but come on....dress sphere's...that's girl power all over. Most male Final Fantasy fans will agree with me.
I'm also a borderline Final Fantasy purist so I'm one of the harder ones to please.
Oh yes I'm very aware of that
I don't mind. I just think it's wrong for people to say that the franchise has been going downhill since the merger, I thought XII was a great game, it lacked a bit on the story side but it was far better than X-2. I've met guys who liked X-2 for the same reasons I did - for the gameplay. It has great gameplay, regardless of how the characters act. I never said it was made for men, I was disagreeing with your statement that it abandoned men. There were things in the game that were put there specifically for their male fanbase, so they clearly weren't abandoned. It's a misconception that SquareEnix made X-2, they did not, as I've shown you. People like to say that it's gone downhill since the merger, but they like to ignore the fact that X-2 was made before the merger took place. They like to attribute X-2 as a problem with SquareEnix when SquareEnix didn't even exist yet at the time of X-2 being created. It can't be both ways, either it's gone downhill since X or it's gone downhill since the Merger, and the first FF game made by SquareEnix was FFXII.
spoonyrogdrumps
Blue Mage
It was released under SquarEnix because the merger happened on April 1st of 2003. X-2 was released only 18 days prior to that, so they used it as the first game released by the merged company. It could not have been created by SquareEnix since the companies had not even merged at the time. So sorry but you're wrong
The page you linked to says this:
"It was released in Japan shortly before the merger between Square and Enix."
Well you are right and I am right. It has been known that although the merger wasn't announced and official until then the change was already in motion years before and it started with the Spirits Within Movie that Square made. (correction it started with Wada)
Here are two links that will explain everything. The NeoGaf link is a long read and has a lot of links in itself but it's detailed and thorough
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=744184
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0173840/
I also agree XII was better than X-2
And your right in some ways. Actually it started going down before the merger so X-2 was just the result of the downhill trend.
I personally think that they shouldn't have been so hard on Sakaguchi. The movie flopped in their eyes but he was and still is a great game creator and story-teller.
Also if you haven't played I-IX, I encourage you to. I'm on a playthrough currently as I haven't played I-VI. I am on IV right now.
Also gameplay is more than the combat system. It's how the controls are designed and how the game is presented as a whole.
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True there was discussion of a merger going on long before it actually took place, but X-2 was made by Square when they were still on their own, and was another attempt by them to get more money since it would cost less to make and still bring in good amount of profit. Although they were in talks about the merger and even when they had agreed for the merger to go ahead, the companies were still separate until January 14th, when all the issues and discussions about how it would happen were resolved. By that point X-2 would have been nearly completed. When it comes to merging companies they do not work together until there is a final agreement in place, because until then there is no way for them to decide who gets what, who does what, how much one company owns and how much another company owns. So while there was discussion about how, if and when the companies would merge long before X-2 was even thought up, before X even, until they got the green light to go ahead with it, the companies were still working separately, and Square were the ones working on X-2.
I think the problems came from the money issues they had, that was when they started trying to find ways to save the company, when they planned X-2 because it was reusing resources that they already had, when they changed around their management and Sakaguchi left. If X-2 had not been so profitable it's debatable if we'd even have XIII-2 and XIII-3. Square was the company that started reusing resources, and when they merged with Enix they kept going with it because it worked so well.
I don't think the merger has anything to do with why the company has gone 'downhill' - but then again, I don't think it has gone downhill. I thought XII was a solid game, easily as good as some of the older games. XIII was rubbish, but that whole saga is Toriyama's baby, and thankfully he's not in charge of the next one (and hopefully is never let near another FF game again). If you think about it we've only had two games that could be considered 'bad' - X-2 and XIII - and now everyone is saying the company is going downhill because of it? I think it's way to soon to be saying that.
Then again, if they hadn't made the changes they made to management and to costs, would there even be a franchise to speak about? They were nearly bankrupt, they scraped their way back barely, and they had to change the company when they did.