Who Was Stronger: Seifer or Squall?

in my opinion, squall was stronger than seifer. squall fought to protect everyone and he did it extremely well, as for seifer, when it came time to fight, he was always at his knees huffing and puffing from getting his ass kicked! squall even got stuck through the heart by the sorceresses icicle attack and he still lived! squall is obviously stronger..
 
Well Seifer was tired during the battle at the flying Galbadia Garden because he had already fought Squall and his party a few moments ago. He still returned, even after being worn out a lot by Squall and the others so that explains why he was exhausted.

Also Seifer did not train, he just played it cool and tried to protect Edea as much as he could. If we face Seifer as he usually trained, his attacks would hit harder than Squall's because Seifer's battle strategy is more aggressive. Added to that, Seifer rarely doubts while attacking, so he wouldn't hesitate to kill anyone.
 
Yes, Seifer was tired during the second battle, but...if I remember correctly, didn't Edea revitalize him to a degree or something? Again, it's been a while since I've played through the game, but I'm pretty sure that's how it happened. Seifer was lying flat on his stomach, then Edea/Ultimecia told him to rise, at which point he stood up and kind of limped away. I suppose my primary reason for not giving this battle too much credit is because, even after fighting him on two separate occasions, the party was still strong enough to defeat Edea, who was obviously much stronger than Seifer. If he had actually posed any sort of a threat/worn them down, I don't really think they would've been able to overpower the sorceress.

I don't know what to make of their battle in Disc 3, either. Again, almost immediately after fighting him, the party was still able to beat Adel (admittedly, it was a weakened/groggy Adel, but I'd imagine she was still quite an imposing enemy). When it comes to Gilgamesh's Zantetsuken, I honestly don't know what to say about that, either. I highly doubt that Seifer had gotten that much stronger than Squall during the time between Disc 1 and Disc 3. Remember, although Seifer had been training, Squall was off fighting a number of powerful monsters and robots. He was bound to have gotten stronger, as well. Probably more so, in fact, because Squall was fighting under extreme circumstances.

Now that I think about it, isn't it possible that Seifer was being powered up by Ultimecia? He was still technically her knight, after all, so she might've been giving him some sort of boost. I suppose it's extremely unlikely, but I have heard that theory before. Admittedly, this one isn't probable at all. I'm just throwing it out there. I simply don't see how else Seifer could survive an attack that, by gameplay standards, can kill the likes of Adel or Griever in one hit. Even if he is stronger than Squall, I think it would be by a very small margin. As evidenced by their duel at the beginning of the game, they two are at least very close in strength. Yes, Seifer gave Squall a scar, but only after he cheapshotted him with a Fire spell. Even then, Squall retalliated and gave Seifer an identical scar.

I think it's obvious that neither one is that much stronger than the other. Their fight at the end of Disc 1 proves it. When Seifer and Squall fight one-on-one, it basically comes down to who is having the better day. The two are probably so close that the slightest outside influence could make all the difference. If one of them is tired, the scales will tip in the other's favor. If one of them had been training for a few days whereas the other hadn't, then the one who was training is going to win. That sounds like the most logical assumption to me, considering the two of them were typically portrayed as being relatively equal to one another, anyway.
 
Well I've checked and it seems a few people, the people who have bothered to reply to the topics anyway, say Gilgamesh's Zantetsuken always misses bosses. You could argue that just proves they would kill the bosses and thus the game itself makes him miss to make the fighters harder.
 
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Well...if it always misses bosses, then I'd have to say that it just isn't supposed to effect bosses. I mean, what else can they do except have it miss? They aren't going to program a unique reaction for each boss to use whenever Gilgamesh uses Zantetsuken when it's much easier to just have the attack miss. You could always try to justify it by saying that the bosses just evade the attack, but certain bosses are rather large and probably don't rely primarily on speed and agility during combat. From a storyline perspective, I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be interpreted as "Zantetsuken doesn't kill the bosses."
 
Or from a storyline perspective it could mean "Zantetsuken will kill bosses so it just happens to miss every time." I mean, it never actualy hit any of them so you can't say it wouldn't effect them.
 
Now you're getting into the realm of uncertainty, though. This is a question that is genuinely impossible to answer because we never do see Gilgamesh hit anyone else with Zantetsuken in the storyline, and technically, it never does hit the bosses. Still, what else could they do? Typically, when something has no effect on a character (for example, if the enemy tries to cast a status-effect on a character who is immune to that particular status-effect), I believe the message that comes up is 'Miss.' Again, I could be wrong because I haven't played FF8 in a while, but if that's the case, I think it only makes sense that Gilgamesh's Zantetsuken "misses" the bosses because it doesn't have any effect on them.

Still, you could make an argument for either side, I suppose, but I think my explanation clears up the most plotholes. I mean, even if Seifer is stronger than Squall, how could he possibly have gotten that strong? By your logic, Gilgamesh's Zantetsuken could wipe out the likes of Adel, Griever, or any of Ultimecia's forms sans the last one. I highly doubt that Seifer is superior to any of them, considering how close he and Squall were portrayed as throughout most of the game. There's really no explanation for Seifer, a normal human, to become so powerful in such a short amount of time without any outside help. I just don't see how Seifer could survive something that could theoretically kill any boss in the game except for Ultimecia's final form, so I've reached the conclusion that Zantetsuken is simply too weak to effect the bosses from a storyline perspective.
 
Well, from a storyline perspective, Zantetsuken can "cut anything".
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We also saw the sword simply whirling through the air slash through spacetime itself to cut a hole between dimensions.
I think it's a formiddable weapon from a storyline perspective and featless bosses like just regular Griever shouldn't be thought of as stronger.
 
Well, of course Zantetsuken is a powerful weapon. I'd go so far as to say that it could, in fact, probably defeat most of the bosses if it were actually usable during those fights. However, I don't think that it could beat Griever. It's true that we haven't actually seen Griever do anything all too impressive in cutscenes or FMV's (unless you count Shockwave Pulsar, which I can only assume is also pretty strong from a storyline perspective), but remember, Griever is described as the strongest Guardian Force. Considering Odin, himself, is a Guardian Force, he would be included in that statement. In other words, even when compared to Odin, Griever is still the most powerful Guardian Force.

While it's true that Zantetsuken can cut through anything, that doesn't neccessarily mean that Odin himself is the best fighter in the Final Fantasy VIII universe. I think Seifer proved that. The fact of the matter is, if someone can dodge Zantetsuken or simply strike Odin down first, he is just as defeatable as anyone else. Personally, I believe that the likes of Ultimecia would be able to do that. For example, Ultimecia could just strike him down from afar with magic, thus ending the fight before Griever can get close enough to use Zantetsuken in the first place. The same can be said for Edea, Adel, or pretty much any other sorceress/magic specialist. I'd say that Zantetsuken's biggest weakness is that it's a close-range weapon in a world where just about everyone can strike from a distance using magic.

So, in terms of raw power, Zantetsuken probably surpasses most of what the bosses can dish out from a storyline perspective. However, put Odin up against someone with incredible speed (Seifer) or who can use long-ranged attacks (Ultimecia, Adel, or even Rinoa), and he's probably going to have a pretty tough time. Of course, this is a JRPG, so having a close-range weapon probably isn't going to be thought of as a huge disadvantage, but you get what I'm saying here. Logically, a long-range fighter who has demonstrated incredible magical prowess should be able to take him out.

Then again, that's not really the argument here. We were, after all, discussing whether or not Seifer surviving Gilgamesh's Zantetsuken is an impressive feat. Personally, I think that it is an impressive feat, but not one that would put him above Squall (leastways not that far above him). I mean, really, can you honestly say that you think Seifer is more durable than Griever (who is a giant lion GF)? It just doesn't make sense. He shouldn't be able to survive something that could potentially wipe out a creature many times his size who isn't even human and probably isn't composed of flesh and blood to begin with.
 
You make a fair point.
But after all that we come full-circle back to Seifer vs. Squall. I don't think we've really dtermined 100% who was stronger though.
 
Well, no we haven't, but to be honest with you, I don't really know how we could. The thing is we just haven't seen enough of their feats (in the way of cutscenes or FMV's) to accurately determine who is stronger. All we know about them is that they're both extremely skilled with a Gunblade, possess at least a somwhat high degree of advanced knowledge and skill in Para-Magic, and are trained in the art of Junctioning and using Guardian Forces. Quistis described them both as being in a "league of their own" without explicitly referring to either one as superior, and any in-game statements pertaining to the two of them are worded similarly. We're never outright told which of them is better, just that both of them are extremely strong.

Yes, they've fought twice one-on-one during the game. Their first duel ended in a draw and, though Squall did defeat Seifer in their second fight, he was out of practice. Their remaining fights were three-on-one, though the party was never tired afterwards (they always go on to fight a powerful sorceress after fighting Seifer, so...). All things considered, we don't have a whole lot to go by. It isn't like we're comparing Cloud with Zack or two anime characters who both have established limits and whatnot. Most of what these two are seen doing takes place within gameplay.
 
You know, a remake of this game would be quite nice. Add in some trigger commands that allow you to block certain attacks during battle and BAM! Problem solved on the whole Seifer not using his extremely powerful attacks on Squall and the team.

There's so much that could be worked on to make this already amazing game, even better. Like shedding more light on certain aspects of the story, like who Ultimecia really is, and giving more info on places such as Centra and the Trabia Crater. And, of course, the whole "Who's stronger: Seifer or Squall?"

Personally, I can't really say who's the stronger of the two. And, from reading what a lot of you have posted over the last few pages, I really don't have anything else to say, I guess. :rolleyes:

I just think this game deserves a remake more than FFVII, and that if it was to be remade, it should give answers to questions such as this, as well as other things that haven't been mentioned in the game.
 
The Welsh Paddy said:
You know, a remake of this game would be quite nice. Add in some trigger commands that allow you to block certain attacks during battle and BAM! Problem solved on the whole Seifer not using his extremely powerful attacks on Squall and the team.

There's so much that could be worked on to make this already amazing game, even better. Like shedding more light on certain aspects of the story, like who Ultimecia really is, and giving more info on places such as Centra and the Trabia Crater. And, of course, the whole "Who's stronger: Seifer or Squall?"

Personally, I can't really say who's the stronger of the two. And, from reading what a lot of you have posted over the last few pages, I really don't have anything else to say, I guess. :rolleyes:

I just think this game deserves a remake more than FFVII, and that if it was to be remade, it should give answers to questions such as this, as well as other things that haven't been mentioned in the game.
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Yes, because seriously, if we base our statements on game mechanics and on a simple battle scene in the Intro, we wouldn't probably be able to make an absolute judgment on who is stronger between Squall and Seifer. Even though Seifer takes on Squall, even if Squall has two allies, it is simply due to game mechanics, since Squall is a boss. Bosses are supposed to be stronger than our characters depending on the situation, still we were meant to defeat Seifer to progress further into the game.

Besides, I concur, we have enough VII games :wink:, how about some VIII for those who prefer VIII?
 
Actually, even though I'm not too fond of FFVIII, I really think it needs a remake. Of course, by "remake," I mean "total overhaul." Like, for example, how about we hear something about characters other than Squall and Rinoa? Don't get me wrong, I like Squall as much as the next guy, but honestly, he's the only character with any genuine development past the first Disc. Quistis looked like she was going to be a good character, but like everyone else, she got shoved into the background when the second Disc came around. I'd love to see that changed in a remake.

But now I'm getting off-topic.

Anyway...was I the only one disappointed by those final battles against Seifer? Personally, I was looking forward to one final, one-on-one confrontation between Squall and Seifer on the Lunatic Pandora with Rinoa's life hanging in the balance. I don't know what possessed Square to have such a lame resolution to the Seifer subplot. I mean, seriously, that was just so disappointing. They build up to the final confrontation between Squall and Seifer for pretty much the whole game, but instead of a climactic duel, we get three party members gang-banging Seifer OR Gilgamesh showing up to finish him off instead of Squall. As awesome as Gilgamesh is, don't you think they could've fit him into some other boss fight?

Besides, that would've cleared up so much. We would've found out indefinitely whether Squall or Seifer was stronger, which is a question I'm sure many FFVIII fans have been asking themselves for some time now. I really don't know what Square's logic was behind this. When you have two rivals who are at each other's throats for the whole game, you end their rivalry with a one-on-one duel. That's practically a law of video-games. I guess they might've been trying to deviate from the cliche/"surprise us", but to be honest with you, this is one cliche that I'm happy exists.

So yes, I demand that Square remake FFVIII so that we can get our Squall vs. Seifer duel.
 
That one on one duel would be cool, but then Squall would HAVE to be the stronger of the two. Unless Seifer kicks Squall's ass and then something else happens that leads to Seifer being defeated. (Like Odin coming in to help, but being killed. But then Gilgamesh comes in to finish off the fight?)
 
I'd love a remake of FFVIII. Only thing I'd worry about is the addition of voices. Improved graphics, sound and maybe battle system be kickass but I just dread the casting for the characters.

But maybe I should have hope. I mean, I can't think of anyone right now but I'm sure there's someone out there who could do a great Seifer. I ove Crispen Freeman but I don't think he'd fit the character.

Anyway, yes, a final showdown between Seifer and Squall be awesome. But like ^ said, Squall would probably have to win there.

I admit Seifer did get a pretty raw deal. "Okay, let's fight the party. Oh no now he's got Rinoa! Now he threw Rinoa to Adel and....where did he go?" That was prettyanticlimactic.

Not to metnion almost no one I know understands the ending with Seifer. So...he went fishing after all that? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.....
 
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I think the whole fishing thing was supposed to be symbolic, kinda. Fishing is supposed to be really relaxing and all, and for Seifer I'd say that sitting at the harbour with a couple of friends, fishing really would be quite relaxing and all, especially after what he went through.
 
I read this on another board and liked it a lot. It's a fitting analogy as any IMO.

they start the game even, but then they develop differently throughout the game. Because of the way they developed, Squall ends up better than Seifer in tactics, strategy, and leadership. Seifer ends up stronger in pure strength. The simple fact is, if they switched places, and experienced what the other did, they'd be reversed.

Take two dogs, treat one nice all the time, and train it. Versus taking the other one and beating it all the time. One will be a people person, and "think" more and have more talents. The other will be brutal and strong. That's basically how these two were.
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Nikkolas said:
I read this on another board and liked it a lot. It's a fitting analogy as any IMO.
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i dont think the dog analogy works tbh

the fishing thing shows that seifer can lead a normal life, which is something important to know, because seifer isnt 'bad' exactly, and we wouldnt want to see him dead.
So the fishing is a way of saying seifer turned into a nice normal person.

Furthermore, you cant really say that any character is stronger then the protagonist, because at the end of the game they are inevitably victorious
 
Yeah, but Seifer and Squall are potrayed as relatively equal throughout the whole game. We were never really given any evidence to suggest that Seifer is, overall, a better fighter than Squall. Perhaps he has more raw power (ie can hit harder with his Gunblade). However, there are many more factors to take into consideration when deciding who is the overall better fighter. Tactics, agility, speed, the ability to think on your feet, determination, strength, magical proficiency, etc. are all things to be taken into consideration. While Seifer may have been the "beaten dog" and more vicious/tougher, you have to remember that Seifer and Squall are not dogs. Do you really think that strategy (or Para-Magic for that matter) ever comes into play when two dogs fight each other? If those dogs were humans, just as an example, the first dog would have a huge advantage over the second in that it could apply tactics/strategy to a given situation.

Of course, that is where our lack of in-game battles becomes a problem. All we have to go by is the fact that Squall beat Seifer on one occasion, fought him to a draw on an earlier occasion, and that Seifer was able to overpower Odin. That's not a whole lot to go by. I hate comparing FFVIII characters because of that. We have no idea how strong either of them are, really. We have no way of knowing how good Squall is with Para-Magic, how fast he is, how agile or durable he is, or even how strong he is. The same can be said for Seifer. Until FFVIII gets a CGI movie of its own, it's rather difficult to compare its characters.

The fact remains, at the end of the day, it all comes down to personal bias in this case. I'm no exception. Squall fans will always assert that Squall was stronger and Seifer fans will vehemently insist that Seifer was superior. The worst part is that there's really no way to prove or disprove them, either way. We just don't see enough of them outside of gameplay. What we do see puts them so close in terms of combat that it's tough to present an argument without coming across as just a little biased.
 
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