What makes a good villain?

Gaige

Gaige

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In all the games you've played, what makes a good villain in your eyes. Do you think there needs to be a certain degree of emotion and rage? Do you prefer the cold, silent type? What factors enter the equation?@ Weaponry, clothes. An epic speech etc.

Personally, I like to see cold, amoral villains who really do what they do for personal gain and no other reason, or for some corrupt ideology. I like to see them without emotion or remorse, completely irreedemable. Examples would include Jihl Nabaat(-__-), Jenna Angel of Digital Devil Saga to an extent, and others like that.
 
It's usually the tragic hero that makes a great villain for me. A victim of circumstance and in a way all villains have that similarity. It's a balance of a lust for power and a certain degree of dillusion as to how far one could sensibly take it.

Kefka and Sephiroth were both represented as characters with a warped sense of self value, perhaps because of previous circumstances that had driven them to this ultimate sense of self validation.
Both were the subjects of experiments
and in truth, could either's mental state truly be blamed solely on their own doings? The narrative gives us ample reference to suggest that there was a clear and almost understandable motive to the actions and psychological frame the two were in.
 
I do understand Kefka's past in particular. He was, as you said
the victim of experiments
However, I do think they were different in subtle ways. Kefka
killed Gestahl, the man responsible for it
yet Sephiroth never showed any intention to harm
Hojo, Lucrecia or Jenova. He worshipped them. Jenova in particular.
I do think, however, that shows his fragile mind. You have a point.
 
For me, I like a villain that has a wonderful story arc. I like villains that have a really great reason for their actions, rather than being evil for the sake of it. I think to have a really successful villain, you have to be able to feel strongly for them, whether you absolutely hate them, or whether a part of you is rooting for the villain. If the villain is boring, and doesn't inspire any emotions... then that's not a good villain, in my eyes.
 
See, I love to hate villains. I love it when a villain invokes fear in the protaganists and hatred in you. You just wanna see them get their comeuppance. :wacky:
 
I dont like the villains whop are like super tough and all that, it just doesnt appeal to me.
A villain has to be down right sinister and evil and making you want to jump in the screen and grab his neck. These guys are usually more annoying when theyre weak and hiding behind their henchmen as you just know if the main character got their hands on them he could sort them out.
Everytime i see a film with donald sutherland he is always the most epic bad guy in where i cannot stand him and am waiting for the moment where he finally gets done in by the hero. I suppose an example of good villains for me in final fantasy were zorn and thorne. No one can say they didnt love the moment where you got to pound them down. Twas awesome:ryan: felt way better than kuja.
 
Lightning Farron said:
I do understand Kefka's past in particular. He was, as you said
the victim of experiments
However, I do think they were different in subtle ways. Kefka
killed Gestahl, the man responsible for it
yet Sephiroth never showed any intention to harm
Hojo, Lucrecia or Jenova. He worshipped them. Jenova in particular.
I do think, however, that shows his fragile mind. You have a point.
Click to expand...

Well yeah, I mean I only referred to Seph and Kefka because I assumed the two were villains the majority of the site were familiar with. :wacky:

There are other factors to consider that, whilst seemingly irrelevant actually augment the villain's role. For example: who is the protagonist?

If it's some kid (like the notoriously half-witted Tidus) can you really take the villain seriously? What if the villain has no vested interest in what he's plying so much of his time into? That all of it essentially just culminates into a series of wanton acts of sadism?

Is the villain particularly reputable? Has he earned the audience's respect? Does the villain deserve the audience's sympathy?

And so on, and so on...
 
Yeah, Lew. Actually being sinister is a must. They has to invoke fear, hatred, and this real feeling of epicness whenever he/she steps onto the screen. If you feel nothing for them, like you and Mark say, they've failed as villains and characters.

I dunno, Tom. I actually like totally sadistic villains. :wacky: They appeal to me. I think someone who does something for the sake of enjoying pain and suffering is quite terrifying as a character, especially if the main protaganists fear them.
 
A good villain to me can't simply be just a one or two dimensional presence that just shows up and attacks the protagonists. These kind of villains are just punching bags the way I see it. They're typically villains without any backstory or any major reason to care about them just fastened onto the story just to have someone there to fight against (I'm looking at you,
Necron
and
Orphan!
)

I tend to like villains with good backstories (not all the time of course). Backstories that detail what has transpired to make them an antagonist? Were they betrayed? Were they mistreated? Were they used as an experimental product? Was it just a tragedy? That way, it gives me a reason to care a bit about the villain, perhaps with a bit of sympathy for this very flawed character. In that way you get an interesting character who isn't there for the sole purpose of being beaten up.

Also, a good villain would have to be intimidating in some way, particularly when it comes to their power and intentions. Valkyrie Profile's Lezard has always struck me as being a rather intimidating villain when you look at his capabilities and what he does. Overall goals is also a factor. Do I want to see another villain destroy the world simply because he can? Not really, at least not if I also see a villain who has a potentially destructive plan or is made to conduct such a plan with reasons that can be explained or reasoned.
 
a major part of hating the villain comes down to what they do throughout the film. It has to be something that will shock and disgust the watcher, really making you hate them.
Bricktop in the film snatch, he was a right cunt. ANd mr blonde in resevior dogs :rage: oh he was a rite bastard =_=
oh oh oh and that paedo in sin city. I hated him so much -__-
 
Lightning Farron said:
I dunno, Tom. I actually like totally sadistic villains. :wacky: They appeal to me. I think someone who does something for the sake of enjoying pain and suffering is quite terrifying as a character, especially if the main protaganists fear them.
Click to expand...

Whilst I do agree about the sadism, for me there has to be scope in their plans, not just wanton violence.

If they are just a sadist, they're nothing more than an animal to be put down. It's when they apply structure to their sadism and begin to grow in power and threat that they truly become worthy of fear and respect alike.

The holocaust was infamously heinous, but what was more haunting than the attrocities commited was the structure and category behind it.
 
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That pedo was terrifying, Lew. -__- The orange skin and everything... ugh ugh ugh. he looked the part and acted the part.

Lezard was fantastic. One of the best viollains I've ever seen. he went from crazed stalker to ally in VP: Silmeria and I was wondering: Has he gone good?

Then the GLORIOUS villain returns in all his Lenneth obsessed madness.

I know what you mean, Tom. But I do like for them to not have too much emotion. I want them to be irredeemable. To do something that puts them beyond forgiveness.
 
Character: The villain must have character, I don't like to see villains that are just blank faced and "bad".

Ambitions: The villains must have a goal to pursue and not just act as an obstacle to the protagonist.

Motive: The villains must have a past occurrence or actions and decisions that shape who they are and give the player a clear understanding of why they are the way they are and why they want to achieve X.

Sympathetic to a degree: This is to get the players to become emotionally invested in the antagonist and anyone who can pull a villain like that off is a good writer (if everything else is well written of course).

Cunning, deceptive and charismatic: A villain who can sweet talk a crowd and win their favor is always a plus in my book.

Believable, mature and realistic: Sure who doesn't enjoy a 'Joker' type villain every now and then? However, they only work in specific settings with specifically established logic. But I think a well written villain is one that works in a way that is believable and not just have him or her appear and reappear to excite the players or beat the idea into our heads that "They are the bad guys, see how much they want to stop you?". Villains should be pulling the strings in the shadows, deceiving people, trying to obtain their goal and think nothing more of the protagonists as either a nuisance, a potential threat or a potential ally (If the protagonist has some relationship with the antagonist then it's different). I don't favor the villain to appear (to the protagonist) and battle you as often because it doesn't build up the tension to the final battle in which the climax would be much more engaging and rewarding.

Villains should be ruthless, unforgiving, logical, smart, wise and relentless. These are the kind of traits I want to see in a villain.

Fucking hard to beat: This is where a lot of games fall short on (most noticeably from the 32 bit era onwards). It sucks having your final boss (which is usually the villain of course) is set n a specific level (if there is a level system) and you over exceed it by doing side quests and beat optional bosses that are way higher level than the final boss is. Beating the final boss like that isn't as climactic as I would like, can't they just have the final boss level up as you do? Or how about final boss fights that are just damn easy? I'm not asking for cheap boss fights, just challenging ones.
 
I agree with everything you said but I never want to feel sympathy for a villain. Only hatred and possibly some small degree of awe when they show up. I really believe that you need some villains to be sympathetic, but all? I really don't want to feel sorry for every villain in a game/book/film. That's how I am, unfortunately. :8F:
 
I think it's a question of perception. Who is the villain? If you can't express empathy for your enemy are you any better?

There are always two sides to a story and when the product feels one sided chances are it's biased and I can't take it seriously. I have to feel that if I was in the villain's shoes I would likely be pressed to do the same as him and that it was all down to circumstance in the end.
 
I do get what you mean. I believe as well that a villain can't just do something for the sake of it. He/she has to have a belief that he/she believes in without wavering, even if others would consider it wrong.
 
1. Greed.

2. Selfishness.

3. Some form of intelligence.

4. A reason for being the cruel way they are.
 
I like villains who actually have a reason for doing what they do, and I like that reason to actually make some kind of sense.

Sephiroth, while epic, is not an example of a stellar villain to me. His descent into madness over the period of a week just felt really forced and lame to me, especially after also playing Crisis Core, in which for the first time he actually seemed like a very intelligent and level-headed guy... before he inevitably went nuts.
Okay, I rewrote it like six times, but I still can't accurately articulate why I don't like Sephiroth as a villain. Sure, he's iconic, sure, he's easy to hate and fear, but... I dunno, it just doesn't cut it for me.

Weirdly enough, Kuja did cut it for me.
Yes, he was easy to hate. He was really evil, dastardly, everything...
But his motives actually make a bit more sense, even if they do make him seem rather childish and selfish.
When Kuja
finds out his lifespan is limited, and Zidane is intended to replace him
, he becomes both angry and afraid (and, and in Necron/Yoda's words, we know this to be a very bad thing). He is especially afraid of death, and feels that if he
is going to die
, no one else should
be allowed to live without him
.
Like I said, it's childish and selfish, but at their core, aren't a lot of people? At least it's believable. But at the same time, you can still hate him, because he's a flowery, manipulating bastard. If you cared for the villains too much, they wouldn't be villains, would they?
That said, during his scene in the ending, I genuinely felt sorry for him. He kind of redeemed himself a little, in my eyes.
...I still can't believe Kuja got shafted by Necron for the final boss battle, though. -.-
 
I'm gonna start off by saying that I don't like the evil for the sake of evil thing. I want a villain that seems like he has a human agenda. He's doing what he's doing for reasons that are understandable, even if his means are a bit extreme.

Krelian from Xenogears is a good example. His agenda came about because of the sadness he felt from the war that had destroyed so much. He felt that he lived in a world that was without God, so he seeks out to create one. He begins to believe that the root of pain and suffering is emotions so he seeks to purge the world and to transcend existence. To know only knowledge and to feel no pain. See, his actions are extreme but the driving force behind such acts is just simple sadness. I like that in a villain. To use what Sultan was saying, to have a villain that's sympathetic. Who here can say that they wouldn't be driven to extremes given such horrible circumstances?
 
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