Lightning Returns What in the world is Square thinking!?!?!

[.Mosh]

The great thing about RPGs is that they all reach people in different ways. Some click, some don't. Some bring forth tears or laughter, some don't. Same can be said of books, movies, etc. I can't tell you how many movies I liked that many hated. Or how many I hated that received critical acclaim (Hurt Locker comes to mind... hated it). That being said, yes, I do love this game and yes, many don't.

Different tastes rock

Like I have stated many times before don't listen to others and their negativity the just need to be negative for the sake of being it. You love the game thats fantastic I like the game but I do see its flaws. I can't say I disagree with things other members have been saying like Razberry but most of the statements are a bit OTT and sugar coated with bullshit. Your allowed your opinion and they are allowed theirs. But this doesn't mean they can say your lying etc which is out of the question. If you have any problems TY just talk to a mod etc

 

[greenyxi]

Hey guys, can we return to the point of this thread: a debate about whether LR is good or bad from my interpretation. Rather than personal assaults and off-topic chat?

Any further off-topicness will induce warnings and/or infractions.

Thanks

 

[Linnaete]

Does no one in this game ever shut up?

I got bored in the library and watched a playthrough of the first half hour of Luxerion and if there's one thing that I've never failed to notice, is that Hope never shuts up.

And when he does speak, it's often banal or redundant that any gamer with half an amoeba's cell in their brain would hopefully have inferred without him outright saying the obvious.

Some dude: "This is where those shady cloaked Etro guys like to hang out and meet in the midnight hours!"

Hope: "LIGHT! This could be useful information! You better talk to the inquisitor guy over there!"

Me: "Holy shit, you're a genius!"

God knows what the exposition is like in the rest of the game. I can imagine this game being the sort of game that dispenses with subtle on-screen symbolic gestures in favour of just pummeling your face with text and the sound of someone's voice reading from the script that this is what it means, you simpleton!

Ya'know, I'm still going to get this one day in the off chance that I end up finding this to be the actual best one in the trilogy when everyone else is saying that it's the worst one. Sure it looks like some modded game from back in 2004-5, but it looks damn more appealing a game than FFXIII and FFXIII-2 ever were. I just wish we have an actual likeable cast of characters with plenty of screentime who don't get unceremoniously shafted, like Sazh. And a good story. In fact, I'd be more excited for a PC version that will never exist, if only if someone puts a Valkyrie Profile skin over it and gives you a party of Einherjars. That would be the game we need and deserve.

But we all know South Park will be RPG of the year.

 

[Jdeadevil]

Does no one in this game ever shut up?

I got bored in the library and watched a playthrough of the first half hour of Luxerion and if there's one thing that I've never failed to notice, is that Hope never shuts up.

This! Fucking this! It's what made me finally decide to stop playing it for good. If Final Fantasy XIII gave you no other choice but to follow a tunnel, then this game makes you feel like you have to follow a tunnel (using Hope) when really it isn't. You can't walk more than a few feet in any map without triggering some more dialogue by Hope, so he just ends up interrupting himself. The second problem is that some of those triggers for dialogue are near battle zones, so incoming battles interrupt his speech and he doesn't continue afterwards. I think both are design flaws, that I don't think Square will bother ever fixing those because there's just too many idiots feeding their ego on their Facebook page by saying Lightning is the best character yet and Final Fantasy XIII is the best in the series. Yeah, I know, what?

 

[Razberry Knight]

I don't think he's lying so what if he loves this game more then the community I have played and completed FF9 around 7 times myself and I am planning another playthrough sometime soon (Plus FF9 is miles longer of a game) I am happy to see someone loving the title.

I can agree with you saying it is a bit unbalanced and the ending honestly didn't bother me and it wasn't overly stupid. It wasn't a completely generic happy ever after but close. The monologues do drag agreed as well and the characters are a bit one dimensional but I have played far worse RPGs then this by far.

I do think its a blind love though....and i'll tell you one thing, the ending was pretty stupid. i know you don't agree, but theres no denying that REGARDLESS if it didn't bother you.

Its like that ending from the anime film Red Line, where right in the end the main character and the girl say "i love you" to eachother, regardless of not having much contact or any build up to their relationship. here, there really was no need to do it that way. Its a cop out....no matter what anyone says that they personally disagree, you can't properly explain that this ending was a "cop out".

Also, the gameplay is great, but there really is NO POINT in it. you dont get exp for fighting yet you get exp over side quests?


Trust me, i'll take the worst RPG ever if it at least offers more heart than this. ALSO, if you know what different tastes exist, make sure you know your the minority, because you cannot recommend things with such a high regard. You also have to look at things objectively. Objectively, this is a bad game, theres no subjectivity, even if i somehow enjoyed XIII and XIII-2, this game would've still be considered bad, (and i would've still NOT recommend XIII series regardless if i enjoyed them). i'm the type of person who really analyses before putting judgement.

 

[Ty Hope]

Well I'll get back on topic:

- Loved the fighting system. Bit of a learning curve, but I like things like perfect blocks, timed hits etc.
- The story worked for me. Some of it was corny here and there, and some of the side quest stories were weak. Overall though, it was Lightning's personal story. I got caught up in it, and really wanted to know more about Lumina, Serah's whereabouts, etc. the first time I played through.
- Using past characters as bosses worked for me as well. Each of their reasons for fighting Lightning made sense and gave them closure.
- I did want a little more out of Sazh's quest to be honest.
- LOVED the ending. Brought everything together, showed us who Lumina was, wrapped it all up nicely. Where they all end up in the end (won't spoil here) was a unique twist to me.
- Graphically, the game looked fine to me. Not as crisp as many other games, but not bad. The cut scenes rocked as always though. Especially the ending.
- The two hidden bosses are a great additional challenge. If you haven't beaten them yet, go back and give them a shot.
- The costumes were hit or miss, but the option to change the colors of each costume was fun. I found myself messing around with the colors from time to time to freshen up the mood.

- All this being said, I stand by my score of 7.5 / 10. I have been playing the game for several months now and am still not bored. That equals a damn good game to me. Unlike 12 for example, which after I beat, I never played again. So that is my take on this game. I have recommended to people and will continue to do so.



***I too am tired of the personal bashing. No time for that crap. If you have something to say to me along those lines, make it a PM.***

 

[.Mosh]

I do think its a blind love though....and i'll tell you one thing, the ending was pretty stupid. i know you don't agree, but theres no denying that REGARDLESS if it didn't bother you.

Its like that ending from the anime film Red Line, where right in the end the main character and the girl say "i love you" to eachother, regardless of not having much contact or any build up to their relationship. here, there really was no need to do it that way. Its a cop out....no matter what anyone says that they personally disagree, you can't properly explain that this ending was a "cop out".

Also, the gameplay is great, but there really is NO POINT in it. you dont get exp for fighting yet you get exp over side quests?


Trust me, i'll take the worst RPG ever if it at least offers more heart than this. ALSO, if you know what different tastes exist, make sure you know your the minority, because you cannot recommend things with such a high regard. You also have to look at things objectively. Objectively, this is a bad game, theres no subjectivity, even if i somehow enjoyed XIII and XIII-2, this game would've still be considered bad, (and i would've still NOT recommend XIII series regardless if i enjoyed them). i'm the type of person who really analyses before putting judgement.

I can agree some parts of it are a little cheesy/far fetched and stupid but I felt as a whole it was a lovely spectacle as usual with the gorgeous CGI S-E are always good for. Yes I could go along the reasoning of it being an easy cop out but I think they chose the best option, it saves their asses in the end, I mean its a far better ending then say what people of the Mass Effect franchise got with ME3 (Even with the extended cut DLC it still was a big smack in the face).

Ways in which the could of improved the overall gameplay is still having exp from fighting and having fewer sidequests which then reward you with more stat boosts. This way you can still get stronger even if you are finding a side quest hard to finish. Couple that with maybe taking out time requirements for some quests (Yes it is kind of realistic to a degree but having to waste half a day waiting because you have done all you can do at the moment is a bit annoying) And by all means have the day lasting length extended to allow you to grind and upgrade and item grind etc. I think if it went along that sort of route the game would have been a lot more appealing and more akin to a Final Fantasy title.

But I liked this game more so then FFXIII-2, maybe because I wasn't overly keen on Noel and Serah yet I really liked Caius (Bad ass sword I might add) But now I will wait for FF15 and see what it brings to the table, it looks like a nice change of pace being based in reality and having a Kingdom Hearts style battle system which would make sense in reality (We dont pause for each others turns do we now )

And then I think this will happen

Spoiler

Lightning will appear in FF15 because of the ending leaving her in France and were talking about reality France by the looks of it. Considering FF15 is based mainly round reality, and its a given that FF15 is the renamed versus (So that means this game still has some sort of tie to the FF13 universe) I can see her making an appearance she even says that the battle is over and is waiting for the next one to begin.

 

[Ty Hope]

I too dig Caius's sword. Great design!

The reason I think that leveling up the way they chose works, is because it fits with the story. Lightning is already powerful from the previous installments. Having her go back to square-one wouldn't make sense story-wise. She is also racing against the clock which would make traditional leveling difficult. Also, the enemies do drop items which are handed in at Chocolina (English name?) that allows for a variation of traditional leveling up.

Square Enix didn't call this 13-3 for a reason. They intended for it to be something completely new. It is kind of like a "traditional RPG, MMO, action-RPG" hybrid. It isn't simply a traditional RPG because it was never meant to be. It was something new to give Lighting a proper send-off and closure. I think it succeeded.

Another element that is not brought up enough, is that of "is the game FUN?" I would personally answer this with an enthusiastic YES! That is why I have been hooked and that is why I love this game. It is a TON of fun to me. How much so? I have owned 10 and 10-2 HD edition since December but haven't taken them out of the box yet. Still hooked on LR! I'll get to those soon enough though

 

[Razberry Knight]

I can agree some parts of it are a little cheesy/far fetched and stupid but I felt as a whole it was a lovely spectacle as usual with the gorgeous CGI S-E are always good for. Yes I could go along the reasoning of it being an easy cop out but I think they chose the best option, it saves their asses in the end, I mean its a far better ending then say what people of the Mass Effect franchise got with ME3 (Even with the extended cut DLC it still was a big smack in the face).

Its practically the same thing. [/quote]
NOt as usual for me....this felt like some other fantasy game, but not "Final Fantasy". each time, the world got revamped constantly. The only reason why Mas effect is hated worst is because it had actually had a 90 hours of sensible story and the last 10 was where it goes a 180. As for Lightning Returns, you're in a state of "what the fudge is going on and where the heck is this going from here" and then suddenly the plot unravels in the end, but not until it gives us another ending that just somehow makes everyone happy.

Ways in which the could of improved the overall gameplay is still having exp from fighting and having fewer sidequests which then reward you with more stat boosts. This way you can still get stronger even if you are finding a side quest hard to finish. Couple that with maybe taking out time requirements for some quests (Yes it is kind of realistic to a degree but having to waste half a day waiting because you have done all you can do at the moment is a bit annoying) And by all means have the day lasting length extended to allow you to grind and upgrade and item grind etc. I think if it went along that sort of route the game would have been a lot more appealing and more akin to a Final Fantasy title.

Thats one thing.

But I liked this game more so then FFXIII-2, maybe because I wasn't overly keen on Noel and Serah yet I really liked Caius (Bad ass sword I might add) But now I will wait for FF15 and see what it brings to the table, it looks like a nice change of pace being based in reality and having a Kingdom Hearts style battle system which would make sense in reality (We dont pause for each others turns do we now )

And then I think this will happen

Spoiler

Lightning will appear in FF15 because of the ending leaving her in France and were talking about reality France by the looks of it. Considering FF15 is based mainly round reality, and its a given that FF15 is the renamed versus (So that means this game still has some sort of tie to the FF13 universe) I can see her making an appearance she even says that the battle is over and is waiting for the next one to begin.

i hope not. Lightning is the worst Final fantasy character yet, yes, worst than vaan.

I too dig Caius's sword. Great design!

The reason I think that leveling up the way they chose works, is because it fits with the story. Lightning is already powerful from the previous installments. Having her go back to square-one wouldn't make sense story-wise. She is also racing against the clock which would make traditional leveling difficult. Also, the enemies do drop items which are handed in at Chocolina (English name?) that allows for a variation of traditional leveling up.

there really is no need to even consider that canon. getting stronger isn't a problem. And even then, you still "level up". plus this game is n't as story oriented as its made out to be.

Square Enix didn't call this 13-3 for a reason. They intended for it to be something completely new. It is kind of like a "traditional RPG, MMO, action-RPG" hybrid. It isn't simply a traditional RPG because it was never meant to be. It was something new to give Lighting a proper send-off and closure. I think it succeeded.

OK also, thats not true, each time they gave a difference answer as to why they didn't name it XIII-3 but they did wanted to name it 13-3 originally and you can see concept art from them, but heres the thing, one answer seems to be consistent and that is that they wanted ppl who haven't played 13 and 13-2 to play Lightning Returns.

Another element that is not brought up enough, is that of "is the game FUN?" I would personally answer this with an enthusiastic YES! That is why I have been hooked and that is why I love this game. It is a TON of fun to me. How much so? I have owned 10 and 10-2 HD edition since December but haven't taken them out of the box yet. Still hooked on LR! I'll get to those soon enough though

Because how fun something is has to be by how motivated the player is. we're on the third game, and it just destroys everything that was exstablished in this game. Sure XIII-2 may have changed everything, but also its setup so that its just another perspective (time) of the same world. BUt Lightning Returns makes it completely 180.


Ty Hope, RPG are "role-playing games" the genre is designed to make story equal to gameplay. The most part of this game is menial quests, making animals extinct is only an option that really provides no fun other than "i want to see a world without monsters" and the ending kind of ruins this idea too.

Everything happening in this game ended with no real form of progress, the ending could've been brought up even earlier, heck, even in the beginning of the game.

 

[Ty Hope]

Well, I think its a ton of fun and that won't change. Thank you Square Enix for deciding to make this game! It was well worth my money I know many people who feel the same way.

And PLEASE include Lightning in 15. Even for a cameo. One of my favorite characters of the last 10 years.

 

[spoonyrogdrumps]

They aren't thinking that's the problem....I can write better narratives and develop better Final Fantasy layouts in my sleep.

 

[Homunculus]

God, this game IS INDEED VERY HORRIBLE I made it to day 7 +_+ The whole time I was forcing myself to enjoy it. Boy I can't finish this garbage its so bad it stings. Yeah dressing up Lightning like a barbie doll, really cute and gives players a neat option to put her into a skanky cat outfit. Lightning is a cool character I must admit, (not as cool as Fang though ¬.¬) But I lost a ton of respect for her when this load of feces was released. Every character lost its charm, Snow looks gay as ever with his new bishounen look =_= The story sucks, Lvling up sucks, everything sucks. I paid 60 dollars for this crap, I hate forcing myself to enjoy it so I'm selling it as soon as i can. Final fantasy 13 was great, 13-2 was great but damn this game sucks. Why does Hope look like a little kid again? oh, god wants him to? real smooth square, real smoooth....

 

[Jdeadevil]

God, this game IS INDEED VERY HORRIBLE I made it to day 7 +_+ The whole time I was forcing myself to enjoy it. Boy I can't finish this garbage its so bad it stings. Yeah dressing up Lightning like a barbie doll, really cute and gives players a neat option to put her into a skanky cat outfit. Lightning is a cool character I must admit, (not as cool as Fang though ¬.¬) But I lost a ton of respect for her when this load of feces was released. Every character lost its charm, Snow looks gay as ever with his new bishounen look =_= The story sucks, Lvling up sucks, everything sucks. I paid 60 dollars for this crap, I hate forcing myself to enjoy it so I'm selling it as soon as i can. Final fantasy 13 was great, 13-2 was great but damn this game sucks. Why does Hope look like a little kid again? oh, god wants him to? real smooth square, real smoooth....

*Claps*
Welcome to the forum! But I completely agree. Our opinions differ a bit about Lightning being a cool character and XIII being a great game, but you're spot on with "Because God wants him to" being a lame reason for Hope becoming young again. I could tolerate Etro invaliding the ending of the first game, because it introduced XIII-2 which was decent, but Lightning essentially becomes a Jehova's Witness in the new one. And where-as I don't have anything against that particular religion, it's a little weird for Square Enix to incorporate that into a video game, isn't it? Especially when you're aware that Lightning was essentially a female Cloud in the first one.

 

[Razberry Knight]

i'm going to say Lightning was never cool....her backstory and how she was involved felt forced in 13. and since 13-2 we saw a pattern of what SE was making her into

 

[Jdeadevil]

i'm going to say Lightning was never cool....her backstory and how she was involved felt forced in 13. and since 13-2 we saw a pattern of what SE was making her into

That's actually a good point about XIII-2. Not only can you see the transition but when you really think about it, it can make you feel drunk trying to understand the details of her back-story or appropriate reasons for her to become what she was in XIII-2 / Lightning Returns, as when you're drunk you often find yourself contemplating things that have no reason or detail.

 

[Ed Elric]

I actually just finished the game. How i made through the game? I have no idea. Final Fantasy XIII was decent. I mean, it had its cons. a lot of things i didn't like and things that I, as a FF gamer, was not use to. But it was still playable. I ventured forth and played FFXIII-2 with Serah and it looked like they tried to improve it, but it just got worse. For me, Lightning Returns was just dragged out. The series of XIII shouldn't have even began with, imo.

I thought the game its self, was cheesy. I'm not a religious person, so when Lightning was "God's savior." I just chuckled. The dialogue and storyline was awful. The whole time thing, pissed me off too. I could do side quests and main quests but only at certain "times" of the day. WHY? I just want to play the game i don't wanna twiddle my thumb and have to sit and wait. I don't have time to deal with your shit Square.

Honestly, every little thing just ticked me off about the game. From the very beginning. I felt like the whole time when i was playing as lightning i was chasing nothing. What was the purpose? I didn't see the purpose of the game. I think I just played it to pass time, really.

They completely twisted the story and made it complicated in the second game. It's a never ending circle. Yet, Square thinks that this is something consumers want and like. I guess because I've played the older games, its not my style. For new players, maybe but def. not me.


/endrant

 

[SRT4Real]

When I first started playing, I was frustrated like everyone else. Strange combat system. Virtually no fighting allies -- just this weird Schemata deal. Freakin' time limit, and I was not keeping up. Pound you over the head, Captain Obvious dialog and monologues, and so on. I didn't finish first time through, and let it die out at Day 10. Ugh.

Then I got stubborn, and played through again. Started to get the hang of it, even though I am not great at high-speed button pushing and schemata switching in battles. Still, it started to sink in, became tolerable, and then... fun! Yes, fun.

Despite her deadpan delivery, I really like Lightning. If she were a Clint Eastwood-ish male character, no one would blink twice about the lack of emotion. Frankly, when she's delivering a serious line, but wearing an outfit that would make most hookers blush, it cracks me up.

There were obviously some things thrown together to get the game out the door quickly, but on the flip side, I like some of the risks taken that many people hate. I like the idea of a hero who clobbers monsters, but grows in strength by performing services. Some of the side quests were corny, some were funny, and some were cool. Listen to Chocolina. She has a few good one-liners.

It took a while to master the game, but once I did, it was fun to see how quickly I could dispatch bosses that previously pounded me into the dust. Ex: I beat Aeronite (on Easy) in 4:13. Won't be that quick on Normal and Hard, but first time through, Aeronite pulverized me.

I loved the entire finale. Maudlin and melodramatic? Too bad. I still loved it.

A few "clinkers" in the game that made me laugh:

1. The dog that looks like it was drawn by a sleepy 3-year-old.

2.

Spoiler

Put on the Carnavel Crusher outfit as you go through Yusnaan Palace (or really, any time). When you get to the table holding Serah's Pendant, Lightning reaches over to get it. With her back to you, she shows a teeny bit of, um... butt crack, which is normal in that slinky outfit. Then she says something like, "I wonder why Snow would leave something so precious behind". I almost fell out of my chair, laughing.

Despite the errors and flaws, I had a blast with this game. I give it 9 out 10.

 

[Ty Hope]

When I first started playing, I was frustrated like everyone else. Strange combat system. Virtually no fighting allies -- just this weird Schemata deal. Freakin' time limit, and I was not keeping up. Pound you over the head, Captain Obvious dialog and monologues, and so on. I didn't finish first time through, and let it die out at Day 10. Ugh.

Then I got stubborn, and played through again. Started to get the hang of it, even though I am not great at high-speed button pushing and schemata switching in battles. Still, it started to sink in, became tolerable, and then... fun! Yes, fun.

Despite her deadpan delivery, I really like Lightning. If she were a Clint Eastwood-ish male character, no one would blink twice about the lack of emotion. Frankly, when she's delivering a serious line, but wearing an outfit that would make most hookers blush, it cracks me up.

There were obviously some things thrown together to get the game out the door quickly, but on the flip side, I like some of the risks taken that many people hate. I like the idea of a hero who clobbers monsters, but grows in strength by performing services. Some of the side quests were corny, some were funny, and some were cool. Listen to Chocolina. She has a few good one-liners.

It took a while to master the game, but once I did, it was fun to see how quickly I could dispatch bosses that previously pounded me into the dust. Ex: I beat Aeronite (on Easy) in 4:13. Won't be that quick on Normal and Hard, but first time through, Aeronite pulverized me.

I loved the entire finale. Maudlin and melodramatic? Too bad. I still loved it.

A few "clinkers" in the game that made me laugh:

1. The dog that looks like it was drawn by a sleepy 3-year-old.

2.

Spoiler

Put on the Carnavel Crusher outfit as you go through Yusnaan Palace (or really, any time). When you get to the table holding Serah's Pendant, Lightning reaches over to get it. With her back to you, she shows a teeny bit of, um... butt crack, which is normal in that slinky outfit. Then she says something like, "I wonder why Snow would leave something so precious behind". I almost fell out of my chair, laughing.

Despite the errors and flaws, I had a blast with this game. I give it 9 out 10.

Very much how I thought of the game. Took me a few days to get used to, but became really fun after that. Now its one of my favorite games in the series. Its one of those games where you just need to get through the initial phase.

 

[SRT4Real]

Agreed. If it were my first FF game, I might have given up after a few hours. Glad I kept at it.

 

[Razberry Knight]

I actually just finished the game. How i made through the game? I have no idea. Final Fantasy XIII was decent. I mean, it had its cons. a lot of things i didn't like and things that I, as a FF gamer, was not use to. But it was still playable. I ventured forth and played FFXIII-2 with Serah and it looked like they tried to improve it, but it just got worse. For me, Lightning Returns was just dragged out. The series of XIII shouldn't have even began with, imo. I thought the game its self, was cheesy. I'm not a religious person, so when Lightning was "God's savior." I just chuckled. The dialogue and storyline was awful. The whole time thing, pissed me off too. I could do side quests and main quests but only at certain "times" of the day. WHY? I just want to play the game i don't wanna twiddle my thumb and have to sit and wait. I don't have time to deal with your shit Square.Honestly, every little thing just ticked me off about the game. From the very beginning. I felt like the whole time when i was playing as lighting i was chasing nothing. What was the purpose? I didn't see the purpose of the game. I think I just played it to pass time, really. They completely twisted the story and made it complicated in the second game. It's a never ending circle. Yet, Square thinks that this is something consumers want and like. I guess because I've played the older games, its not my style. For new players, maybe but def. not me. /endrant

i 100% agree..... the problem with Lightning Returns is that its an excuse....the story was convoluted...in the end, they all just wanted to give lightning a better ending, because lets face it. turning to crystal was dumb to leave it as that and obviously she could return. but rather than moving on with a new life in the distant future, its rehashing what should've been closed.