what happened next?

[The Witch]

Lol, oh Channi, I wuv you.

This. Good point. One thing that was very jealous of Tifa, I thought, in the movie was when they're talking at 7th Heaven, and she blurts out "Which is it... Our memory or us?"

Cloud doesn't want to go to the Ancient City because that's where it all happened. Furthermore, Kadaj is tainting Aerith's resting place by brainwashing the children. He doesn't want to see her deathbed tainted by Sephiroth further, you know? But at the same time, I think it's insenstive of Tifa to not realize or even think of it.. She was there herself, does it not mean anything to her?

Yes, that's a great point. That line alone shows even Tifa sees Cloud is still lingering feelings for Aerith. I wouldn't say it didn't mean anything to her rather, Tifa, as a woman in love with Cloud, does have her frustrations with Aerith, who is a love rival for Cloud, and what she's associated with.

Think of it from Tifa's POV, here she is alive and ready to be with Cloud, yet Cloud's still yearning to be with a woman that's been dead for two whole years. Tifa's "which is it? A memory or us?" is a prime example of someone hitting the end of the stick and just finally letting it take control of them.

She was literally witnessing Cloud pick a memory of a woman over anything living. And I have to say, that look Cloud gives speaks for itself.

Not really. In the Novella Maiden Who Travels the Planet, Aerith witnessed Sephiroth using his will to spawn Kadaj, Loz and Yazoo. He was strong enough to use remnants to go to Cloud, because he was not yet physically tangible himself.. not without the help of the Jenova cells.

Aerith commented that maybe she could use her own will to appear to Cloud in some way, similar to how Sephiroth did it. However she said that she wanted to appear to Cloud as herself, how he saw and remembered her.

In the end of AC, she managed to accomplish that by reappearing to him several times (throughout the movie) and reawakening his memory of her. Also with the help of the Lifestream water in the Church, she managed to bring herself to him in a physical, viewable form.

I'm sure if she wanted, she could have accomplished more. Aerith's will, as a Cetra, is incredibly strong, almost as strong as Sephiroth's.

Oh, yeah. I almost forgot about that completely! Good point, Channi.

 

[Channizard]

Lol, oh Channi, I wuv you.

Yes, that's a great point. That line alone shows even Tifa sees Cloud is still lingering feelings for Aerith. I wouldn't say it didn't mean anything to her rather, Tifa, as a woman in love with Cloud, does have her frustrations with Aerith, who is a love rival for Cloud, and what she's associated with.

Think of it from Tifa's POV, here she is alive and ready to be with Cloud, yet Cloud's still yearning to be with a woman that's been dead for two whole years. Tifa's "which is it? A memory or us?" is a prime example of someone hitting the end of the stick and just finally letting it take control of them.

She was literally witnessing Cloud pick a memory of a woman over anything living. And I have to say, that look Cloud gives speaks for itself.

Oh, yeah. I almost forgot about that completely! Good point, Channi.

I wuv you too. Also diggin the new sig.

I understand Tifa would be frustrated, and she was also touched/shattered by Aerith's death, but still.. it's almost.. I don't know, disrespectful to just throw out an ultimatum like that. And especially following Cloud's pained expression of the thought of going back there, followed with a brief talk with Aerith, it's clear where his head, and his heart are.

 

[GalaxyFlare]

You guys.........stop being mushy!

I exceed to your point Channi of Sephiroth manifesting as Kadaj and the others whos names I cant remember..........but didnt Seph have to augment the life stream with a taint to produce them?

I dont think the the regular Lifstream can be manipulated in the same fashion, think about what you are saying is akin to imortality, dying-absorbtion into the lifestream-manifestation of physical will-retaking physical off form that would leave the door open for the other long Deceased ancients to reappear as well right?

Thousands of generations of cetra in the lifestream and suddenly only Aeris has the ability to come back? The regular lifestream is not so pliable it can be used in such a way
Sephiroth did it by using a taint, GeoStigma I guess ?, but the Ancient are not on a god bend like seph and holding to this would not use a similar method.

She told me so when she appeard to me in a dream..........or a wrestling match IDK?

 

[The Witch]

I wuv you too.

Shuddup bby I kno.

I understand Tifa would be frustrated, and she was also touched/shattered by Aerith's death, but still.. it's almost.. I don't know, disrespectful to just throw out an ultimatum like that.

Oh yeah, I agree. But, Tifa's ultimatum was just a sign of her cracking finally. Anyone would do it. It was wrong but human.

And especially following Cloud's pained expression of the thought of going back there, followed with a brief talk with Aerith, it's clear where his head, and his heart are.

Agreed.

You guys.........stop being mushy!

No.

I exceed to your point Channi of Sephiroth manifesting as Kadaj and the others whos names I cant remember..........but didnt Seph have to augment the life stream with a taint to produce them?

This... this is true.

I dont think the the regular Lifstream can be manipulated in the same fashion, think about what you are saying is akin to imortality, dying-absorbtion into the lifestream-manifestation of physical will-retaking physical off form that would leave the door open for the other long Deceased ancients to reappear as well right?

Well, it can be manipulated in a sense. Remember? Aerith appeared to Cloud physically... not sure how. But she did. She was able to touch and speak to him. And not only him, but the children. Aerith can obviously take a physical form we just don't know how yet.

Thousands of generations of cetra in the lifestream and suddenly only Aeris has the ability to come back? The regular lifestream is not so pliable it can be used in such a way
Sephiroth did it by using a taint, GeoStigma I guess ?, but the Ancient are not on a god bend like seph and holding to this would not use a similar method.

Aerith is tied to the living world because of Cloud, though. Just like Dyn couldn't rest and join his wife in the lifestream. Aerith can't "fade" into the lifestream because of her bond with Cloud. Of course there's a difference between her and other Cetra.

 

[Shubito]

... Anyways.

Picked the obvious choice. (For myself, at least.)

It's doesn't get more plainly said than "For the one I love", showing the most romantic scene in the game, in a book meant to explain everything you need to know.

Not to mention all the build up between them beforehand, and then living together afterwords, and all the way past DoC. Yeah, obvious.

 

[GalaxyFlare]

Aerith can obviously take a physical form we just don't know how yet.

Is that scientific speculation?

Of course there's a difference between her and other Cetra.

Um how? she was the last survivng and was interbred with a human farther her Ancient powers would have been at there weakest for generations, she is no different from them just weaker.

The Cetra had great knowledge and an understanding of the natural world presumably these were taught from 1 generation to the next and Aeris's mothers was taken when she was very young..........most likely before she was old enough to understand the great knowledge she would inherit.

She learnt most of it by listening to the planet. Not in words but feelings.

 

[Six]

I personally go about Final Fantasy VII and the facts, like this; It starts where Final Fantasy VII started, it ends where Final Fantasy VII ends. Which is here. - yes, Advent Children quality, but we all know where the third disc of FFVII ends, else we wouldn't be here discussing this shite. If everyone would go by all the spin-offs, there definitely is no definite answer, and then all CloudxTifa/CloudxAerith fans are just shit out of luck, - which, we already are, mind. Because there is no definite answer. However... Seeing my head hurts... and I'm bored... I'ma try and make an attempt covering more parts than just the game itself.

"After this … I think I’ll be okay.” Cloud was silent for a long time before he spoke again. “Because I have you this time."
"You’ve always had me.”
“What I mean is kind of different,” Cloud answered with another smile.

-

She felt Cloud’s hand on her shoulder. He was holding onto her firmly as if he didn’t want her to go anywhere.

For me, on a side note this meant a lot. I know people can put way too much thought in to something, but... We 'know' what he means. It's kinda obvious.

“Yeah, let’s go home” Cloud agreed.

"Where to?” Barret asked.
“Our suspended reality.”
“What the hell do you mean by that?”
“Our normal lives.”
“And where do we have something like that?”
“We’ll find one.” Cloud looked at Tifa and said, “Right?"

I'm sure I'll catch shit for saying this, as it's "not official" but... hey, Cloud said it.

When Tifa and Cloud were alone, Cloud said, “It’s not like you to be troubled by your thoughts.”
“It’s… Just the way I am.”
“No. You’re much more cheerful and strong. If you’ve forgotten the way you were then, I’ll be there to remind you."
“You really will?”
“Probably,” Cloud said blushing.

Cloud said, blushing.

“And you’re wrong, Cloud.”
Cloud was perplexed as he looked at Tifa.
“Aerith didn’t bring Denzel to you.”
“Ahh, I only thought that…..”
“I didn’t mean it that way.”
“Aerith brought Denzel to our home."
Cloud gazed at Tifa and finally smiled.

Cloud Strife and Tifa Lockhart dialogue, On the way to a Smile; Case of Tifa.

I'm not up for typing much more on this at the moment. So I'ma re-quote some of you guys, and give my opinion.

Also, Kira, Cloud does accept that date, though.

I've had my head bitten off by AerithxCloud fans for saying this before, saying it was bullshit... but, even when I wasn't in to the pairings yet, I always believed that was more of a change of stance than a nod, if anything. It happened in the game before, without it being a nod, and if you watch how he's standing, then shifting, it just looks more like that to me than an actual nod. I'm not trying to make this sound like a lame excuse or anything... It's just how I feel/how it looks to me.

I know there's a debate about a lot in VII, but who the canon/default date is, shouldn't be one of them. Also, I don't get the whole song argument... that song plays when Aerith asks Cait Sith to predict her and Cloud's romantic future, it also plays when Cait Sith dies. It seems like it's jus' a song, to be frank.

Interrupted by Fireworks. Rumours go round that when the tracks where made, it might've been named that way because of the scene with Cloud on the date of Tifa playing, seeing as she is the only one interrupted by fireworks.

And for my last and final thing at the moment...

"Yesterday, everyone in town was peeking at the two of you from outside the bar."
"Tifa's childhood friend. That's a good one!"

Proof from viewers outside the Seventh Heaven.

 

[GalaxyFlare]

Kira are you feeling okay? you seem to be struggling there a bit?

“It’s… Just the way I am.”
“No. You’re much more cheerful and strong. If you’ve forgotten the way you were then, I’ll be there to remind you."
“You really will?”
“Probably,” Cloud said blushing

Probably..........the hell does that mean? How very vague.
Probably is something you say when you might go to the shops or eat a pizza instead of a Subway"spicey MeatBall Sub"*...........not to your "sweetheart" lol

Also are you talking about the movement during the event when Aeris says she will repay cloud with a date? Who goes on the date with cloud on the Gondola I take it.......thats decided by the various answers you give during events in the game isn't it?
Aeris suggests the date in payment for Cloud being her Bodyguard, there is no affirmative response implied there, its just an event in the story.

Or do I have my scenes wrong?

You shold know better than to listen to the murmerings of Slum dogs, they eat rats and all sorts coz there poors and filthies.

 

[The Witch]

Kira I can understand those quotes and why'd you take them as shippy. :3




Anyway, I've heard Cloud didn't nod to her offer lots of times. And frankly, I can't make anyone believe it was a nod of approval. However, Nomura stating Aerith is the normal date, and quotes that speak of their "promised date" means both came to want said date. Another thing that proves their date occured is this quote;

a.) Aerith: "Well then, let's see...... How about if I go out with you once?"
(Payment for Cloud.)

Aerith: "No, Cloud... I'm searching for you..."
(First and last date.)
- from the Final Fantasy Art Collection -

The first line is when the date first comes up, which suggests that it will eventually come to pass. The second line acknowledges the date between Cloud and Aerith and says it is their last. Meaning the date did occur.
For it to have been Tifa as the default date, that means Cloud and Aerith's date couldn't have been said to be their last.

Again, this quote says it is their promised date.

{#111 The Planet's largest amusement park is run by Dio. Cloud and company visit this place many times in their battle. They meet Cait Sith here. Apromised date that ends in a magical night. In the city of desire that floats above the sands, the light memory of the two people is asleep even now...

Aerith: "I think I must have seen him again, in you... But you're different. Things are different... No, Cloud... I'm searching for you..."}


The first heavy font part--A promised date that ends in a magical night--could only be talking about the date Aerith promised Cloud for his protection. If it was Tifa who was supposed to be the date, it really wouldn't be described as a "promised date" I don't think. As we all know, no where in the game does Cloud or Tifa ever promise each other a date. Like, ever.

The only person to promise a date is Aerith<--->Cloud. No one else.
Even if you disregard the first heavy-font sentence, the second heavy-font I provided, which is Aerith's "I want to meet you" quote, proves it's Aerith's date that is the promised date Cloud goes on.

If it were truly Tifa who was the default/canon date, then they shouldn't have used any of Aerith's lines when speaking about this date in the city of desire.

I know there's lots to be confused about with the LTD. But out of everything out there for the LTD, this shouldn't be.

Really, for anyone doubting read these official quotes from SE;

a.){ "This is the payment she suggests when Cloud says that it'll cost her to hire him to be her bodyguard. This line shows the composed and mischievous side of her.It may be because of this promise that it's easier to have Aerith be the other party in Cloud's date when they're in the Gold Saucer."
- pg. 30, FFVII Ultimania Omega - }


b.) { 1. In Aerith's case, if you play the game normally, the partner that generally comes will be Aerith.
- FFVII Dismantled - }


So the promise of paying Cloud with one date, makes it easier to get Aerith as Cloud's date. Again, if Tifa was the default date, it should be Tifa who is the easiest date to get, not Aerith.

So there's also a quote saying that Aerith is the girl to come as the date if you play the game normally. If Tifa was the default date, why is Aerith the date you get if you play the game normally? Shouldn't it be Tifa?

And if the song "Interrupted by Fireworks" had any meaning or significance to the date at all, especially if the song only fits Tifa, it should be Tifa who is easiest to get on the date. It should be Tifa who comes if you play the game normally. Not Aerith.

Also, like I said earlier, the song interrupted by fireworks plays for not only other scenes of the game, but also when Cloud and Aerith have their affinity predicted. If anything, the song is a themesong for Cloud and Aerith... or at least just a song in the game.



*takes a breath*

 

[VinnieJones]

Lol, this thread won't last long.

Lol


I really don't see the big fuss about the date. Going with Aeris is the one intended by the makers given how likely you get it, plus it fits in with the story. But Cloud didn't really have any feeling towards her at the time though.

Plus after the date you have the option to pick the answer for the question "You don't like being with me?", with the first option (probably meaning the default option) being "Yeah", and picking it made her angry. Now while this is right answer in terms of liking to be with her, Japanese translation error occurs here yet again; it's the opposite in Japan, and picking yeah means 'yeah I don't like being with you', not 'yeah I like being with you'. My point is, it's possible that Cloud didn't think of this date as much more than just spending time with a friend rather than someone he loves. I don't see how going on the date means that the two loved each other at the time.

Cloud only finds out how much Aeris meant to him after she died; one of those cases where you truly realise your feelings once he or she departs. The reason why this whole love story is interesting is because it became unattainable; Aeris coming back to life and the two living happily ever after is a bit of an anti-climax IMO.

Cloud was not able to get over Aeris' death during AC because nothing significant happened to him after the Meteor/Holy. But the events in AC helped him to 'lighten his burden', he succeeded in 'saving' someone (the children) and he can actually smile at the end (significant, given the song title is 'Cloud Smiles' for that tune, which I love btw). I think that implies that he is able to cope with the death better, which suggests that he is capable of moving on.

Onto the MAIN TOPIC, the thing I want is for Cloud to move on from Aeris. Whether he gets together with Tifa I don't know (or care, to be honest), but it's quite possible. I want it end like Locke~Celes; Locke doesn't want to lose Celes like how he lost Rachel. Similarly, maybe Cloud will find that someone he wants to protect.

Speaking of Zack and Aeris, I personally want a happy end for the two. Purely because of the letter in Crisis Core:

"I have twenty-three tiny wishes, but you probably won't remember them all, so I put them all together into one...I'd like to spend more time with you."

Also she sent like 89 letters and still sold flowers in VII, the business she started with Zack. It's always possible for her to remember how much she loved him in the Lifestream, no matter how much she had forgotten about him. Just my opinion, so I don't really care if you agree with this or not

 

[The Witch]

I really don't see the big fuss about the date. Going with Aeris is the one intended by the makers given how likely you get it, plus it fits in with the story. But Cloud didn't really have any feeling towards her at the time though.

You do know Cloud cries at her death right? You do know his heart shattered and broke from being separated from her right? Do you know that his mind even shattered just from her leaving his side so she could go to the sleeping forest?

If he could hear her voice in his soul on top of all of what I previously said, odds are he's got feelings for her. Especially since, just knowing her for a little over two weeks made him become so close to her that she became his reason above all else to defeat Sephiroth. Not to mention, Cloud wants to meet her in his promised land, which is said to be the church--why would any of that occur if he didn't have feelings for her?

Also, a show of Cloud's feelings is him gallantly breaking into the Shinra HQ to save her. A show of feelings is him slipping up and saying; "I'm... we're here for you, right?". A show of Cloud's feelings is when he chases after her in his dream before he found out it was going to be dangerous.

Another show of Cloud's feelings for Aerith is Cait Sith's prediction;
Cloud: What you pursue will be yours. But you will lose something dear.

and even if the teddy was wrong, SE put it in there for a reason.

Not to mention, Cloud clearly states to Sephiroth "What about my pain?!"

Also, I do not think Aerith would be "engraved in Cloud's heart for eternity" if he didn't have feelings for her.

EDIT: Heck, look at the commercials that say they're an impossible love or a story of a love that could never be.

There's love there.

My point is, it's possible that Cloud didn't think of this date as much more than just spending time with a friend rather than someone he loves. I don't see how going on the date means that the two loved each other at the time.

It's important because it's when Aerith detects that Cloud isn't himself and she confides in him that she wants to meet him. Something Cloud returns to her by wanting to meet her in his promised land--it shows both Cloud and Aerith want to meet each other, hence its romanticness.

Speaking of Zack and Aeris, I personally want a happy end for the two. Purely because of the letter in Crisis Core:

"I have twenty-three tiny wishes, but you probably won't remember them all, so I put them all together into one...I'd like to spend more time with you."

Also she sent like 89 letters and still sold flowers in VII, the business she started with Zack. It's always possible for her to remember how much she loved him in the Lifestream, no matter how much she had forgotten about him. Just my opinion, so I don't really care if you agree with this or not

Honestly, I don't care if fans hope and want for Aerith to remain in love with Zack. Nomura has said she doesn't love Zack anymore and loves Cloud much much more. That's all that matters.

 

[VinnieJones]

I'd like to point out a slight problem in my first two paragraphs; what I meant was Cloud didn't think of the date as one of those romantic ones. I didn't really mean the 'Cloud didn't really have any feeling towards her at the time though' part as it i; I do understand he had feelings but he didn't notice them. Apologies for the misunderstanding there, so sorry that you had to make that lengthy reply.

Whilst I understand why you made some points, there are a few I don't really feel are significant.

You do know Cloud cries at her death right? You do know his heart shattered and broke from being separated from her right? Do you know that his mind even shattered just from her leaving his side so she could go to the sleeping forest?

He was in a bit of a mental problem when Aeris left because of what happened at the Temple of Ancients, when he tried to kill her. I wouldn't say it was only love that caused him to take this sort of action.

As for the crying part, this was the time he found out how much she meant to him. Which was the main point I was making.

Also, a show of Cloud's feelings is him gallantly breaking into the Shinra HQ to save her.

A lot of this had to do with Aeris protecting Marlene from Shinra. And he did partly it for Aeris' mom too.




All I stated was that Cloud's love became certain to him after the death. I didn't really say that there was 0% love while she was alive, so yes I agree with you that they were in love with eachother (though not very clearly in Cloud's mind, again my main point is it became clear to him after she died). The only thing we're disagreeing is how we ideally want the story to end, which is opinion based. Which brings the point:

Nomura has said she doesn't love Zack anymore and loves Cloud much much more. That's all that matters.

You do realise feelings can change as time goes on, right? That it's possible to love someone again, even after you hate them or forget about them? I don't see how you can deny the events of the future so easily using only the situation of the present. Nothing is decided for now.

 

[Six]

Kira are you feeling okay? you seem to be struggling there a bit?

I'm fine... I think?

Probably..........the hell does that mean? How very vague.
Probably is something you say when you might go to the shops or eat a pizza instead of a Subway"spicey MeatBall Sub"*...........not to your "sweetheart" lol

Probably. Gotta keep in mind Cloud's personality, Cloud is never clear. xD If he was then there would be no 'he loves this person more' discussion. Probably, as in blushing, as in for me, having that butterfly feeling while you don't wanna look like a complete idiot at the same time. =)

Also are you talking about the movement during the event when Aeris says she will repay cloud with a date? Who goes on the date with cloud on the Gondola I take it.......thats decided by the various answers you give during events in the game isn't it?

This is true, and I agree. However, even if people wanna assume the standard date is Aerith, which is most likely true for the story line, it would still not confirm his feelings for Aerith. Just because he 'accepts' doesn't mean he loves her, for all anyone knows, he's doing it to be polite.

Aeris suggests the date in payment for Cloud being her Bodyguard, there is no affirmative response implied there, its just an event in the story. Or do I have my scenes wrong?

No, I think you have them right, and to that I personally agree.

You shold know better than to listen to the murmerings of Slum dogs, they eat rats and all sorts coz there poors and filthies.

Nah, if you look at the way it was meant, she doesn't believe he's 'just her childhood' friend. That's how I think they meant it anyway. I've never met anyone thinking differently on that, Cleriths or not. However, I like to think they just seemed so close when everyone was peeking at the two of them, so they think it's something more than just friends. *winkwink*

Anyway, I've heard Cloud didn't nod to her offer lots of times. And frankly, I can't make anyone believe it was a nod of approval. However, Nomura stating Aerith is the normal date, and quotes that speak of their "promised date" means both came to want said date.

Having Aerith as the standard date would make more sense with the storyline, and events in Final Fantasy VII, which... In my opinion has nothing to do with Cloud loving Aerith, just because he goes on a date with her.

Just because Cloud goes on a date with Tifa, it doesn't mean he automatically loves her. The date was just a small add-on, which... I don't think either shippers can get something out of. The song... However.

The song, I honestly believe was written for the date with Tifa. Yes, it does play at different occasions too, but it's been pointed out, and staying true to the title, that only happens to Tifa.

The first line is when the date first comes up, which suggests that it will eventually come to pass. The second line acknowledges the date between Cloud and Aerith and says it is their last. Meaning the date did occur.
For it to have been Tifa as the default date, that means Cloud and Aerith's date couldn't have been said to be their last.

Aerith is the standard. I honestly think that because else it wouldn't really make sense for her to suggest the date, however, Cloud, in my opinion, never actually says "Yes." to it. So having a promised date really doesn't... Make it a promised date, if there were no promises made. We're talking Final Fantasy VII here, I assume, and I've yet to see Cloud and Aerith make that promise.

Again, this quote says it is their promised date.

Aerith: "I think I must have seen him again, in you... But you're different. Things are different... No, Cloud... I'm searching for you..."}

I'm a CloudxTifa supporter, and even though I dislike Aerith, I personally thought her and Zack were a match made like Cloud and Tifa - perfect.

There's no denying Aerith developed feelings for Cloud. Even Marlene gave away that Aerith was asking a lot of questions about how Cloud was like, the player gets two options. So, there's no doubt in my mind that Aerith would've liked to know more about Cloud... but... If we're talking about who she loves more, and this is not based on my CloudxTifa view, I would never say Cloud. I'll pick a piece from the poster above me for that in a bit.

As we all know, no where in the game does Cloud or Tifa ever promise each other a date. Like, ever.

No where does Cloud or Aerith promise each other a date, either though.

The only person to promise a date is Aerith<--->Cloud. No one else.
Even if you disregard the first heavy-font sentence, the second heavy-font I provided, which is Aerith's "I want to meet you" quote, proves it's Aerith's date that is the promised date Cloud goes on.

It might be her date, and it might be because she suggested it, but we both know that no where in Final Fantasy VII or any spin-offs for as far as I remember, is a dialogue that shows them promising a date. Or anyone agreeing to anything.

If it were truly Tifa who was the default/canon date, then they shouldn't have used any of Aerith's lines when speaking about this date in the city of desire.

Just because something is default, I will definitely not call it canon. Some things had to happen for the storyline, and some of those things had to do with Aerith, and other things had to do with Tifa. What I consider canon, is the facts of feelings, which is hard to gain from a video game, or it's spin-offs.

So the promise of paying Cloud with one date, makes it easier to get Aerith as Cloud's date. Again, if Tifa was the default date, it should be Tifa who is the easiest date to get, not Aerith.

So there's also a quote saying that Aerith is the girl to come as the date if you play the game normally. If Tifa was the default date, why is Aerith the date you get if you play the game normally? Shouldn't it be Tifa?

No. Once again, just because something is there as a default it doesn't mean it's canon, or should be taken that way.

Cloud grew up with Tifa - it's default - it's not destiny.

Cloud met Aerith - it's default - not destiny.

So no, if people are trying to say it's making Cloud and Aerith canon, then no, because if that was the case, Barret, Yuffie OR Tifa would've been out of the picture, which they are not.

Also, like I said earlier, the song interrupted by fireworks plays for not only other scenes of the game, but also when Cloud and Aerith have their affinity predicted. If anything, the song is a themesong for Cloud and Aerith... or at least just a song in the game.

Aside from Cait Sith's luck with predicting the future... I would be in no position to argue if the song has a significant meaning to Cloud and Tifa while on the date in the Gold Saucer, but she is the only one actually interrupted by fireworks, which does say something in my book.

My point is, it's possible that Cloud didn't think of this date as much more than just spending time with a friend rather than someone he loves. I don't see how going on the date means that the two loved each other at the time.

Qft.

Cloud only finds out how much Aeris meant to him after she died; one of those cases where you truly realise your feelings once he or she departs. The reason why this whole love story is interesting is because it became unattainable; Aeris coming back to life and the two living happily ever after is a bit of an anti-climax IMO.

Not even just that, really, in my opinion. I just can't understand how people can bring up things like "Well if he loved Tifa he would've moved on with her, instead of thinking about Aerith." I mean... How heartless can people be...? The whole team cared for this girl, even if she was just a friend to him, she was a close one, someone each member held dear, so in no way, do I find anyone thinking that to be right. He feels guilty. He let her down after trying to make sure she's safe. Anyone who cares about a friend would do the same. Seriously, guys.

Onto the MAIN TOPIC, the thing I want is for Cloud to move on from Aeris. Whether he gets together with Tifa I don't know (or care, to be honest), but it's quite possible. I want it end like Locke~Celes; Locke doesn't want to lose Celes like how he lost Rachel. Similarly, maybe Cloud will find that someone he wants to protect.

Cloud promised to protect Tifa way before they even met Aerith though, and he had feelings for her before that too. However, I like the idea.

Speaking of Zack and Aeris, I personally want a happy end for the two. Purely because of the letter in Crisis Core.

"I have twenty-three tiny wishes, but you probably won't remember them all, so I put them all together into one...I'd like to spend more time with you."

Also she sent like 89 letters and still sold flowers in VII, the business she started with Zack. It's always possible for her to remember how much she loved him in the Lifestream, no matter how much she had forgotten about him. Just my opinion, so I don't really care if you agree with this or not

I don't think anything that meant so much to her would be forgotten, period. Moving on? Maybe. Forgotten? Definitely not.

*deep breath, as well* My fingers kinda hurt.



I'm wondering if we should make an actual thread about this, so it's 'on-topic', as we're all doing pretty well about it, though I'm sure... Some rabid Clerith/Cloti will ruin that if we do...?

 

[Channizard]

Alright, here's where it gets hazy. I gotta hand it to Kira on Interrupted by Fireworks being a Cloti song. I love that song, it's so lovely. <3 And after watching their date scene, it is more apparant that Tifa is.. interrupted. She starts off with "Sometimes it's hard being just old friends...".. "Cloud, I..................." and then screen fades to black, and they get off the Gondola. Clearly, Tifa was about to confess how she felt. But she stopped. Granted, she wasn't exactly interrupted by fireworks, moreliek the Gondola ride stopping.. but I don't like "Interrupted by Gonola Closure" would have been as romantic

During the date scene, it clearly is a Cloti song. When Aerith has her date, she's very clear and concise about what she says, she gets out what's on her mind. She's not interrupted.

However I also gotta hand it to Cali on Aerith being the more obvious, easy to get date. Mainly because, it's a minor plot device early on in the game. Cloud does take on being her bodyguard at the cost of one date. Albeit, it probably wasn't solely for that purpose, but as far as I saw it, when I first played the game.. he accepted her proposition for a date if he helped her out.

 

[GalaxyFlare]

Can I suggest something?

If you take cloud In this sequence of events which I will outline now:

*Young child in Nibelheim with Tifa
*Promises to protect Tifa, goes of to join Soldier.

*Lives in Midgar, joins Soldier but only as a Grunt.
*Gets assigned a mission to his home town, feels embarrassed by his lack off achievement
*Conceals his identity from Tifa.
*The events of Nibleheim take place..........we all know what they I would think.
*Cloud is experimented on by Hojo.


*Left in the Shinra Mansion for 5 years?
*Escapes with Zack
*Events of CC......Zack departs, Cloud assumes PART Personality of Zack.

This is where where Im gonna divert, in taking on Zacks traits the same things that attracted Zack to Aerith/Aeris are what prompted Cloud to like her in the same fashion.

Argument FOR this: Cloud became Zack mostly, like 75%Zack 25%Cloud, including mannerism, attitudes, outlooks perspective.

Argument AGAINST this: No matter how much Cloud became Zack he could never know everything about him and his feeling s for Aeris would have died with Zack before he could tell Cloud.

A point for both arguments is that we are never told how much Cloud copied Zack, in FFVII the game, but as the series ahas evolved the gap has become more clear just how much like Zack Cloud is, we have to apply theses newer story elements retroactively, but the result gives a greater insight to the level Cloud became Zack.

Back the the events:

*Zack Departs
*Cloud Continues onto Midgar, and eventually meets up with Tifa at the Train station.
*Cloud Joins Avalanche

*Events of FFVII........again we all know what happens.

*Cloud Turns up in Mideel mute and unresponsive.
*Tifa leads the search and finds Cloud, leaves the team and stays with him.
*Cid leads the Team, returns to Mideel

*Ultima Weapon Attacks
*Cloud and Tifa fall into the LifeStream

Here is where Im gonna pick up again.

During this event Cloud regains his former self including his childhood devotion for Tifa,
Aeris is not expunged entirely, but with his true self re-emergent his feeling for Tifa take precedence.

I think what cloud has experienced is the most extreme case of cognitive dissonants I have ever heard of lol, meaning the equal power of 2 contradicting ideas in a person mind battling for the sole attention of the person.

His love for Tifa from childhood and his devotion to her, versus his Zack influenced feelings towards Aeris, you guys may not agree with my interpretation of what happened to Cloud, but its my opinion that his attraction and his feeling for Aeris were not his own but he flt compelled enough to follow them because of his being Zack's living legacy.

Thats is not saying he was a ware of his feelings for Tifa and chose to supplant them in favor of Aeris, that is saying his feeling for Tifa were those of Zack, just a friend,
and that he had no idea of how much Cloud himself cared for Tifa because his memories were buried under his Zack persona and Cloud just followed his feeling at the time unaware of his own.

If that made sense?

It may not answer the Question but its just more fuel for the Fire we're burning.

 

[Channizard]

See, the interesting thing about ZaCloud, is that he didn't really assimilate Zack as a whole person. While he was in Mako stasis for 5 years, he was still healing. Zack interrupted the process, and his mind was left in a massive cluster fuck. The first thing he saw when he woke up, was Zack, laying there... dead (or retconned in CC, alive and waiting for a pep talk).

Cloud then trudged on into Midgar, where he collapsed again. Tifa found him there, and it was when he saw her again that he remembered what he said to her.. that the next time they would meet again, he would be in SOLDIER. Now, obviously as someone who had a childhood crush on her, he didn't want to look like a failure.. so he just fabricated a lie about being in SOLDIER. I don't think it had anything to do with Zack, it was more about him not wanting to look like a failure.

He remembered being at Nibelheim.. he WAS there, he just wasn't Zack. He didn't really make up anything of the incident because he saw everything first hand, he just self inserted himself into Zack's position. And while Tifa was there, and saw Zack and not Cloud, she didn't say anything because she could tell Cloud wasn't himself.

And again, I don't think Zack had anything to do with him liking Aerith. Cloud fell through her church and there she was, tending to him. SHE started to swoon over him, because initially.. he reminded her so much of Zack. But later as the game progress, she saw the differences. She wanted to meet Cloud and know who HE was, and not who she THOUGHT she knew, which was really just pieces of memories of Zack.

Can't really blame the poor girl either, if CC is any indication of how that ended, she was heartbroken over him, and continually so over the years. (Supposedly) She sensed his death and knew something was wrong. She sent so many letters, only to be left hanging, and when you're in a one sided relationship like that, it's hard to just let go without a definite answer. So when she initially found Cloud, I think she was trying to recapture something she lost.. and later on, realized she found something much more than that.

/heavy sigh.

 

[Shubito]

His love for Tifa from childhood and his devotion to her, versus his Zack influenced feelings towards Aeris, you guys may not agree with my interpretation of what happened to Cloud, but its my opinion that his attraction and his feeling for Aeris were not his own but he flt compelled enough to follow them because of his being Zack's living legacy.

I don't really know about that. Cloud wasn't Zack, he just had some memories where he put himself in Zack's position, and stole some of his gestures/catch phrases.

He didn't like... get his feelings and emotions, I dont even think Jenova cells could do that to him. So all his feelings for Aerith would have been his own, he was just not acting like himself, is all.

And I thought he treated both Aerith and Tifa with the same kind of urgency. He had to protect both of them -moreso than others in his mind. Neither was really more important than the other at the time of Disc one. I found him to be pretty open and caring to both of them.

So if it can apply to Tifa, it can apply to Aerith, that Clouds feelings were genuine.

 

[GalaxyFlare]

it had anything to do with Zack, it was more about him not wanting to look like a failure.

All right lets stop that right there woman, I never stated that Zack had influence over his mind/.memories before the event of Nibelheim, after they escaped and through the entirety of the story of FFVII, but not before the Nibelheim incident.

Shubito...........perhaps Im putting advanced ideas out there that I cant convey in the right words, IDK, but that's what I think, dont underestimate this game everything I said fits and is a lot deeper than Cloud simply mimicking Zack.

But agree to disagree as it were.

 

[Ilyena]

I'm wondering if we should make an actual thread about this, so it's 'on-topic', as we're all doing pretty well about it, though I'm sure... Some rabid Clerith/Cloti will ruin that if we do...?

That might be a good idea since this one is sort of diverting from the original topic.

If any of you want to make it, feel free. The discussion has been pretty civil so far so I don't think it should be an issue. xD