US School Massacre: At Least 28 Killed

[ribbit]

See, guns don't kill people, people kill people.

People kill people, this is true. But people kill people using guns. Funny how that works, right? Yes, we can use many different tools to kill others, but guns are the most effective way. We don't need to turn to God to stop things like this. We need to tighten control on guns. How many people actually need a gun or end up using one in self defense? They cause much more harm than good.

@Draklor No, I was agreeing with Damon. No gun = Less death.

Ah, it looked like you were replying to him

 

[Shinra Executive]

I would be very careful about telling a moderator what they can and cannot do.

It's a bit hypocritical to command someone to get back on a topic which you have steered away from yourself.

You mean like the civil war in Syria that is killing untold thousands of people. Yeah, that's fun. But again, has nothing to do with the school shooting, so let's stay on topic. That's two.

It's ironic actually. This subject, you know, the one's in power. Armed with the banhammer.
Whatever you say, Hoss.

 

[CassinoChips]

It's a bit hypocritical to command someone to get back on a topic which you have steered away from yourself.

That's why I said "let's" as in "let us" and not "you should". Now enough.

 

[The Welsh Paddy]

Seriously? Kids get shot, and then we have this bickering over it... I mean, I haven't gone through the thread to read everything that's been said, but it is still very disrespectful considering the contents of this thread.

I think this is awful. But, as Lew said, it's hardly surprising in this day and age. This is the sort of thing that makes me lose faith in humanity, and question whether I'm doing good by bringing my own son into this world. Okay, sure, guns are illegal here in the U.K but that only lowers the chances of something like this happening. I bet by the time he starts school, I'm gonna be worried sick half the time.

I really feel for those parents who have lost their little ones, and can't even begin to imagine the trauma they must have from this. It really is sick that people would just go and do this. It is cowardly. Well and truly fucking cowardly. Yet I can't help but think that this sort of thing would happen considerably less should America put a ban on gun ownership. Why the hell would anyone want a gun in their house anyway?

You know, Japan has some very strict laws when it comes to gun ownership. For one thing, the only firearms that can be acquired legally are shotguns and air rifles, but even then it is difficult.

http://www.theatlantic.com/internat...-virtually-eliminated-shooting-deaths/260189/

^ Details there.

But I seriously think that America would benefit for cracking down on gun ownership. Just fucking ban them for christ's sake.

 

[Shinra Executive]

Seriously? Kids get shot, and then we have this bickering over it...

That's because it has happened so many times that it has become a thing of debate. I mean, we can sit here and talk about how evil the shooter is, or mourn for the lives taken and how guns are instruments of death, but then all you end up with is a sense of deja vu. It's time that these things are critically examined.

Why the hell would anyone want a gun in their house anyway?

Self-perseverance. It's a pretty simple concept.

You know, Japan has some very strict laws when it comes to gun ownership. For one thing, the only firearms that can be acquired legally are shotguns and air rifles, but even then it is difficult.

Japan is also regulated on how much power it can have since WWII. You see, the major flaw in anti-gun arguments is that guns don't simply disappear. You disarm a group of people, and another group just gets saturated more with them. Japan is pretty much castrated, and is only given sovereignty out of respect. Take that respect away, and you have a people under siege.
You can take that concept to just about any idea or setting within the subject of general society. Strip citizens of guns, it all just goes to others who will eventually aim to manipulate them.
The whole of human history tells this quite well., anti-arms advocates simply labor under a modern delusion.

 

[Harlequin]

If I took a shot in the dark, I'd say he went mad with bitterness. He probably saw those children as living in grace, or at the very least, in a more graceful state then he was granted. He blamed his mother foremost, and after he saw that he had ruined his life in killing her, went out and sought after the kids.

I would go with exactly the same assessment. The school shooting may not even have been premeditated but as you said when he shot his mother his life was already forfeit (death/prison). After that it was a classic case of it's not fair, woe is me, if I can't be happy no one will, suffer like I have world, etc.

But the problem with everyday civilians legally free to arm themselves is people cannot be trusted with the responsibility that comes with weaponry. The media tends to heavily villainize those who commit these crimes but the fact of the matter is these people are victims of their own psychosis. I don't believe he was born with a callous, murderous mentality but the day to day people live in shapes how people behave and act in their lives. The lax gun laws in the US were what enabled him to carry out what he did with such ease.

Predators tend to put themselves in advantageous positions.

Says it all really. Claiming a link between Christianity and Paedophilia is as ignorant to me as claiming a link between Race and Criminality.

You can't justify anything without God, or call anything good or bad, because you otherwise have no basis for it. If you say bad and good is self-evident or exists, then you believe good and bad are forces, and by extension have to borrow from a logos, or universal logic, otherwise known as God.

I agree. The whole moral self determination is a cop out really. It flatters peoples' belief that they're smarter than they actually are. "Good" and "Bad" are concepts beyond the base fundamentals that compel us.

 

[Shu]

What's with this American trend? Why the fuck do people aim at schools instead of the mall or something?

Notice that this shit never happened in the past when Christian morals were still prevalent. Goddamn liberals are destroying this world with all their hippie bullshit.

Did you just bring religion into a thread about a school shooting? Listen, I respect it, but Christianity or the lack of have nothing to do with this thread. From the NIV version to the Contemporary English version to the Kings James version of the Bible, it never taught anything about bullying in schools or kids taking guns to their school or Mother's school. Christianity never taught anyone a lick of humanity in regards to this. In fact, if we really want to go down this road, you will open up a can of worms in which in the end you will be over defensive about your faith and the inhumanities it has caused in the world thus far.

I'm sorry but these brutal killings might have been inspired by your god or the reinforcement of your god, so please do not say god works in mysterious ways. The fact that any religion could be brought up at this time would sicken me.

That's like saying Buddhism should been taught to this boy, due to it might have had an impact on his inner chi. It might have made him find himself or something worth living for. You have no idea what or how he was raised. The only thing I got out of Christianity to this day was inconsistencies and questions. I respect those that hold on to something in it, but religion is for you and not anyone else. So keep it to yourself, mmm kay fella?

Also liberals? Please define a liberal please. I am confident you have no rigid definition of the word, liberal.

Also, to put some sugar in your gas tank here... As soon as Christian Churches can be taxed, I might hold them valid to preach morality. Also they would need to be audited for back taxing for the last 100 years if that's okay too. Taxing the offering plate is the only way to go.

 

[The Welsh Paddy]

Okay, fair enough debating the matter, but much of what I got from what was said wasn't debating. It was more like the two of you having a go at each other. Not that I'm taking sides, or it having anything to do with me. Just feel that if there was a problem between the two of you, it should have been dealt with via pm rather than in public; particularly in a thread like this. But yeah, that's my two pence.

As for stripping people of their guns and sending them off elsewhere. Why would they have to be sent elsewhere? Lock them in an armoury and halt production on further firearms. That way they'd be restricted solely to military usage. Or, at the very least, there should be an extremely strict screening process for acquiring a firearm. I mean, I hear about shootings like this, and the majority of the time it's apparently down to the shooter having some mental issues. Such people shouldn't be able to acquire a gun.

And, self preservation... You say it's a simple concept. Fair enough, it is. But I still don't think that makes owning a gun necessary. What exactly are you protecting yourself from? Everyone I know here in the UK doesn't feel the need to own a gun to ensure their own safety. In extreme cases, people simply take up martial arts.

I understand the need to protect yourself, but I don't understand the need for a firearm. I don't know anyone who owns a gun. I've fired a few guns myself, when I was in the marine cadets several years back. I didn't particularly enjoy the experience either, even though it was only for training purposes. There are so many other ways you can protect yourself. And it's the whole "need for a gun" that makes it that much easier for people to acquire them and then go shooting up a school, or a hospital, or anywhere.

 

[The Master]

How effing sick is this?

Anyway, back on topic. The reason this ever happened is beyond me. If anything there should be cops or something posted at EVERY school, in fact, lets make that in most EVERY public place...

Security needs to be heightened if nothing is going to be done about gun control, or who can and cannot own a gun.

You wan't a solution? That's mine...

 

[Harlequin]

just to be clear he was coming across as implying that christians are all saints and wonderful people who can do no wrong, without whom we would have no morals and all killing each other, i was merely making the point that not all so called christians are holier than thou. I'm not so ignorant to assume just becasue you are a christian, you're a pedo.

Anyway, Im out. I just dont like to be told im ignorant when im not. I dont want other peoples faiths rammed down my throat. People are welcome to follow any religion they want as long as they are not sullying the rest of us.

Oh I know and I'm certainly not in agreement with him over automatically Holy Christians nor did I aim the ignorant comment specifically at you I was just trying to put a concept people use to beat Christianity into perspective. I apologize if I've offended you.

 

[Shinra Executive]

Did you just bring religion into a thread about a school shooting? Listen, I respect it, but Christianity or the lack of have nothing to do with this thread. From the NIV version to the Contemporary English version to the Kings James version of the Bible, it never taught anything about bullying in schools or kids taking guns to their school or Mother's school. Christianity never taught anyone a lick of humanity in regards to this. In fact, if we really want to go down this road, you will open up a can of worms in which in the end you will be over defensive about your faith and the inhumanities it has caused in the world thus far.

What I find funny is how everyone, out of everything I've stated, deadheads right toward that one word 'Christian'. You all cringe and denounce by the mere mention of it, and yet try to sell some idea that I'm the one opening a can of worms. The liberal stick batters up and hits the ball, yet every one is a foul. And then, somehow, the pitcher gets blamed.
The Bible has an incredible amount of things to say on this subject, are you kidding? It even has a lot to say about the ignorance thereof that causes people to say things that you have just stated.

I'm sorry but this brutal killings might have been inspired by your god or the reinforcement of your god, so please do not say god works in mysterious ways. The fact that any religion could be brought up at this time would sicken me.

Hey, you wanted God out of schools, out of children's lives, so guess what? He's not in them. Now you get the reap all the beautiful benefits you so desire of that. What sickens me are these incredibly asinine notions that so many people disillusion themselves with.

That's like saying Buddhism should been taught to this boy, due to it might have had an impact on his inner chi. It might have made him find himself or something worth living for. You have no idea what or how he was raised. The only thing I got out of Christianity to this day was inconsistencies and questions. I respect those that hold on to something in it, but religion is for you and not anyone else. So keep it to yourself, mmm kay fella?

I beg the differ. I find atheism to be a religion all it's own. It's a palette of morals and beliefs which you and others live by and attempt to enforce, and so is good a religion as any. So I'll keep it to myself the day you keep your morals and beliefs to yourself.

 

[Ilyena]

Since this thread apparently cannot stay on topic, I'm just going to close it.