Tidus and Jecht actually real?

Summoner Yuna

Summoner Yuna

The pirate and the princess
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Ok, several threads going around in this section of the forum have inspired me to make this thread. So, here goes.

In the dream sequence in Mt. Gagazet where Tidus learns that he's part of dream Zanarkand and Bahamut's fayth explains the war between Zanarkand and Bevelle he mentions that the people who gave their lives to become fayth did so to preserve Zanarkand. So that got me thinking: they want to preserve memories of something that actually existed, not just random people and locations. So it's possible that Jecht and Tidus were real before the summoning of Zanarkand and later, when it was destroyed, they became dreams of the fayth. So, what do you think about this theory?
 
It's hard to say, as it isn't 100% clear. To me, I always kind of thought that Tidus and Jecht were real at some point. The Zanarkand Abes had existed.

But then again, it would be more or less impossible for the Fayth to remember everyone who existed in Zanarkand at the time, which leads to another idea. That thought would be (probably a theory elsewhere on this forum) that the Fayth's creation of Tidus was based on Shuyin (who did exist). Obviously, this would make Tidus nothing more than a dream, or figment, of the imagination of the Fayth.
 
Like you said Onceman, they could've been real but it'd be hard for the fayth to remember everyone in Zanarkand.

But, if Jecht were a Blitzball player at the time Zanarkand was destroyed I'd suppose at least one of them would be a fan of his. So perhaps the people that ended up in dream zanarkand were people the fayth had known or remembered.
 
Onceman said:
But then again, it would be more or less impossible for the Fayth to remember everyone who existed in Zanarkand at the time, which leads to another idea. That thought would be (probably a theory elsewhere on this forum) that the Fayth's creation of Tidus was based on Shuyin (who did exist). Obviously, this would make Tidus nothing more than a dream, or figment, of the imagination of the Fayth.
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And Jecht was probably based on someone from the Fayth past or someone in their imaginations.
 
I thought that was a given really. They're preserving the memories of those lost, or whatever the words were. I.e. they were ensuring people remembered the people who existed there.
 
Interesting theory.... never thought of it. And, Summoner Yuna, I think that you are right. They must have existed since they fayth dreamed to preserve Zanarkand...and it means Tidus and Jecht were killed in that war...sad.
 
I think Tidus and Jecht must have existed. They were famous, after all. The only thing I can't be sure about is whether their lives were really the same outside Dream Zanarkand.

But the fayth wanted to preserve the memories of the real people. They didn't want to re-create a place they knew with people who weren't there. Surely they'd want to give credit to the place they loved so they'd want to re-create the real people, rather than fill Dream Zanarkand with frauds.

Remember, Tidus' mum appears in the Farplane. Surely the dream version of her wouldn't have appeared. Could it have been the spirit of his mum from reality?

Then again, spirits are surely able to drift between the real world and the world of dreams. Since the fayth are somewhat like Gods (sort of), it's possible that the people they dreamt up had spirits that were able to drift into reality. But does that mean her spirit disappears from the Farplane when they stop dreaming?

The sad ending to X-2 suggests either he's not just a dream, or the spirits of the dreams of the fayth were preserved. Surely if Tidus was fully a dream, he wouldn't have appeared in the Farplane. He would have to have been real once, because both his body and spirit were dreams in X.

Maybe I'm not making myself clear. What I'm saying is that the fayth stopped dreaming at the end of X. Tidus was a dream so he had to disappear. If he was a dream, his spirit was a dream too. If his spirit was a dream, it could not exist and move to the Farplane. Because Tidus' spirit IS in the Farplane, he must have once existed.

As for the idea that Shuyin is Tidus, I don't think this is so. Shuyin died in the war. His spirit wandered Spira in X-2 and Tidus' was in the Farplane. Yuna would not have seen Tidus there had he really once been Shuyin.
 
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Personally, I don't believe they existed before the war.

Since that time, the Fayth had been dreaming for hundreds of years. They evidently age there, so my safest bet is that they were born into the dream world, not created by Yu Yevon.

However, this argument has a sort of loop-hole. All those who were alive during Sin's attack in the dream world (basing this off the argument that they were born into the world) descended from a parent, of whom also had a parent, etc. The 'originals' brought these in -one assumes- so technically either side of the argument could result in Tidus and co. being "real".

Though, that's beating around the bush a bit. I'll stick to my guns and say they weren't alive during the war.



Also, Lirael, your post intrigues me. ;p
 
It's a somewhat complicated theory. :P And by no means full-proof, but plausible. It kind of unravelled in my mind as I wrote. Haha. Everything just fell into place as I thought about it and developed the argument.
 
I believe that Jecht and Tidus were only dreams that the Fayth randomly made up and werent alive before the war because i think that if Tidus and Jecht were real, they would be famous even a thousand years later for there excellency in blizball. If people in Spira "remembered Zanarkand Abes" which I cant remember if they did would surly remember Jecht and Tidus.
 
M'kay, here's my thing...just because they want to preserve Zanarkand's memories doesn't mean they are dreaming of the "real people" that actually died during the war. When they say "memories", I'm thinking more along the lines of "representation" or "models". So, my thought is that the Fayth dreamt of Tidus, as a representation of Shuyin.

Yes, I just can't dismiss X-2 because of Shuyin. Maybe if FFX-2 and Shuyin didn't exist, I'd be more convinced that Tidus and Jecht existed in the Old Zanarkand. It all comes down to "connection" and putting both games together...

Anyway, as I was saying...I believe that Tidus was a representation of Shuyin, (who existed and died in the Old Zanarkand), therefore Tidus never existed. He was just a figment of the Fayth's memories - that of Shuyin. Besides, there are the physical similarities, and wasn't Shuyin also a Blitzball player in the Old Zanarkand...? Not saying they are exactly the same person, sharing the same spirit, body, etc. Just that Tidus is a replica of Shuyin, who is his own different self.

And Lirael, good points there. But you have to remember that Tidus wasn't fully a dream...I mean, he was, but it all changed when he came to Spira. He was half a dream in a way, but "real" nonetheless. So yeah, he was real at one point, then vanished in the Fayth's final-ending memories.
 
Dream Zanarkand was constructed from the memories of those who sacrificed themselves to Yu Yevon to help preserve the memory of Zanarkand after it was detroyed by Bevelle.

It's possible that Tidus and Jecht did exist, or rather they were modelled in the image of people who actually did exist in the real Zanarkand.
 
Hmm…

 My belief on the theory is: Jecht, Tidus and his mother did actually exist in the Old Zanarkand and died during the Bevelle - Zanarkand war 1,000 years ago, thus later becoming perfectly recreated in the Dream Zanarkand through the “Dreams of the Fayth”.

 As Lirael said in that excellent post of hers, both of them had such depth and detail... no to mention a significant importance to the story, that I find it hard to believe their only close representations of some person who lived like them long ago.

No, I’d have to say they are perfect recreations of their past selves, who both later become more than a dream due to their encounter with Sin.

Fayth: "Welcome home."

Tidus: "You..."

Fayth: "Remember me? We met in Bevelle."

Tidus: "Yeah."

Fayth: "But that wasn't the first time we met. I've known about you for a long time. A long, long time."

Tidus: "I...I feel like I know you, too. Where are we?"

Fayth: "Silly, don't recognize your own home?"

Fayth: "Long ago, there was a war."

Tidus: "Yeah, with machina, right?"

Fayth: "Yes. A war between Zanarkand and Bevelle. Bevelle's machina assured their victory from the start. Spira had never seen such power. The summoners of Zanarkand didn't stand a chance. Zanarkand was doomed to oblivion. That's why we tried to save it -- if only in a memory."

Tidus: "What did you do?"

Fayth: "The remaining summoners and the townspeople that survived the war... They all became fayth -- fayth for the summoning."

Fayth: "The dreams of the fayth summoned the memories of the city. They summoned all the buildings, all the people who lived there."

Tidus:"The people... What, they're all dreams? Me, too?"

Fayth: "Yes, you're a dream of the fayth. You, your father, your mother, everyone. All dreams. And if the fayth stop dreaming..."

Tidus: "No! So what if I'm a dream! I...I like being here."

Fayth: "We've been dreaming so long...we're tired. Would you and your father... Would you let us rest? Both you and your father have been touched by Sin. Sin, the one whom all Spira -- the spiral -- revolves."

Tidus: "What are you saying?"

Fayth: "You two are more than just dreams now."
 
its a possibility that they were real in the past but then it could also be possible that they were made up when the fayt dreamed up zanarkand, its also possible that they are different versions of other people from the past. lots of possibiilities since its never explained
 
Fayth:"The dreams of the fayth summoned the memories of the city. They summoned all the buildings, all the people who lived there."

Surely this proves that they did actually summon the actual people who were there?

Then again, the fayth have been dreaming for 1000 years. Tidus sure isnt 1000 years old, and it is proved that he ages, because you see his younger self in flashbacks that Tidus has. So, you could say that the real people that died were dreamt up by the fayth, and generation after generation Tidus was born IN the dream Zanarkand.

Even if he was based on Shuyin, he would still have to have been born in the Dream World because he is 17 not 1000 years old. But Shuyin DID live 1000 years ago so if the fayth were dreaming up a replica of him (Tidus) then they would have had to dream up a 17 year old Tidus..but Tidus was young to start with, so this theory can't work.

I would personally go with the first theory i pointed out, that Tidus was born in the Dream Zanarkand..
 
well i think zanikond actoully exsisted 1000 years ago or sumthin n da fayth dreamed Tidus n den he went to spira


yeh sooo im pretty sure that jecth tidus n zanikond actoully exsisted
 
I'm sure someone has probably answered this correctly, but here I go anyways. ^.^

Tidus and Jecht were not real people in the real Zanarkand 1000 years ago. They fayth didn't re-create Zanarkand's details to an exact tee; they merely used their own memories to preserve Zanarkand's memory.

Tidus, for example, is the Fayth's memory of who Shuyin was in the real Zanarkand; a star blitzball player for the Zanarkand Abes. Tidus was never that person, Shuyin was. The fayth don't remember people exactly the way that they were.
Jecht was probably the fayth's memory of Shuyin's father figure.

The magical number here is pyreflies; those little balls of light that you see when a person is sent to the farplane. Pyreflies take people's memories and give them physical entities. Just as the pyreflies give artificial life to the memories of those who were sent to the farplane, they were also able to give artificial being to the fayth's memories of Tidus/Shuyin.
 
yeah i dont think its very clear for the game i would have to say that tidus and zanakand wer real at one point and he was just thrown into the future but if he was y didnt he know where he was was besaid made after zanakand was destroyed
 
Squall 077, to answer your question, he didn't know where he was because he's never been to Besaid before as he's always been in the Dream Zanarkand all his life. Besaid is in the outside world of Dream Zanarkand, and when he was touched by Sin (his father, Jecht), he was finally transported into the real world of Spira.

And...Tidus wasn't thrown into the future. =/ Think of it as a contemporary situation. Same period of time. We have Dream Zanarkand and the world of Spira. Both are occurring at the same time, albeit different places.

The Fayth created him at the time right after the old Zanarkand got destroyed and right at the beginning of the Dream Zanarkand...therefore he would not be able to remember anything about the old Zanarkand or the other cities of Spira like Besaid...simply because he didn't exist in the old Zanarkand and the actual world of Spira. He was at Dream Zanarkand the whole time until Sin brought him over to the actual world of Spira.

As for the question "was Besaid made after Zanarkand was destroyed"...I'm assuming you mean the Old Zanarkand, right? Well, that's the thing - Besaid, Kilika, Bevelle and all those other cities has always been there, along with the Old Zanarkand. And then when the Old Zanarkand was destroyed, the Dream Zanarkand began - hence, the beginning of Tidus' existence. I'm with Rhea on this. I still support the theory that Tidus was not real in the Old Zanarkand.
 
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