[Spoilers] FFXIV Heavensward Story Discussion

[Thief of Hearts Joker]

Ok since 80% of the damn people in the FC haven't done HW's Story yet I had to make this thread cause theres just too much good shit to discuss!

1. Did anyone else expect Nidhogg to be a raid or was it just me D: ALSO I believe Nidhogg is still alive or at the very least the Ascians have taken his body at the end :0 cause he just kinda poofs when the cutscene ended.

2. Was anyone else surprised when Hauesfuant got harpooned by one of those Holy Knight guys and it actually broke through! (Thought it was the warrior of darkness at first)

DISCUSS Personally I've just now gotten to the part where we're building a new Airship to get into that new Allag place

 

[Abstract Debauchery]

1. Did anyone else expect Nidhogg to be a raid or was it just me D: ALSO I believe Nidhogg is still alive or at the very least the Ascians have taken his body at the end :0 cause he just kinda poofs when the cutscene ended.

Oh yes, he's still around. Complete the MSQ and you'll see what happens with that. Shit ain't over.

2. Was anyone else surprised when Hauesfuant got harpooned by one of those Holy Knight guys and it actually broke through! (Thought it was the warrior of darkness at first)

I saw this shit coming from miles away whenever he started talking about what a Knight's duty was and how much he wanted to be once since he was a child. Thems be some red flags, yo.

 

[Thief of Hearts Joker]

Sweeeeet I'm so glad I wanna rematch that damn Dragon so bad, that initial fight was such a bore at how easy it was

And I honestly didn't see it coming I was expecting the Archbishop to just run away instead I saw one of my favorite Coerthas character die protecting the Warrior of Light XD

 

[Miasma Dragon]

1. I'm glad to say I was 100% right about Iceheart (Shiva) and the Dragonsong war. I said for a long time that Iceheart was the better of the primals, Nidhogg was justified in his intent to destroy Ishgard, and she had the moral argument on her side in her pursuit of justice (boy, I cannot wait to see the faces of a few friends when they'll have to admit I was right all along).

2. On the other hand, I am admittedly surprised by Estinien being consumed by Nidhogg's rage, albeit I won't be surprised to see Estinien return at a later date (he certainly deserves repose for his act of reconciliation). We can be certain that there's some part of Estinien within Nidhogg, however Nidhogg's rage is far too great to be controlled (precisely because it is so righteous I'd submit).

3. The fact the Archbishop did betray the Ascians, while he made this claim I was still surprised by just because I know how many may claim they would turn but never do so. Nonetheless, the enemy of my enemy is still my enemy, and I am happy to see him dead, whereas...

4. I love the new Garlean emperor. He's definitely something else. I hope to align with him one day.

5. Tiamat has the saddest story in the game, as far as I'm concerned. I care not that she regrets her action of requesting the Ascians to bring her beloved Bahamut back, she deserves to be freed both of the Allagan chains and her own self. She needs to learn that so long as she lives she can change things.

6. Midgardsormr minion has evolved into Midgardsormr mount. I just love it.

7. On the other hand, I don't like what happened in Ul'dah. Should've killed Nanamo off for good and have Ul'dah go rogue. But that's about it for now.

 

[Thief of Hearts Joker]

1. I'm glad to say I was 100% right about Iceheart (Shiva) and the Dragonsong war. I said for a long time that Iceheart was the better of the primals, Nidhogg was justified in his intent to destroy Ishgard, and she had the moral argument on her side in her pursuit of justice (boy, I cannot wait to see the faces of a few friends when they'll have to admit I was right all along).

2. On the other hand, I am admittedly surprised by Estinien being consumed by Nidhogg's rage, albeit I won't be surprised to see Estinien return at a later date (he certainly deserves repose for his act of reconciliation). We can be certain that there's some part of Estinien within Nidhogg, however Nidhogg's rage is far too great to be controlled (precisely because it is so righteous I'd submit).

3. The fact the Archbishop did betray the Ascians, while he made this claim I was still surprised by just because I know how many may claim they would turn but never do so. Nonetheless, the enemy of my enemy is still my enemy, and I am happy to see him dead, whereas...

4. I love the new Garlean emperor. He's definitely something else. I hope to align with him one day.

5. Tiamat has the saddest story in the game, as far as I'm concerned. I care not that she regrets her action of requesting the Ascians to bring her beloved Bahamut back, she deserves to be freed both of the Allagan chains and her own self. She needs to learn that so long as she lives she can change things.

6. Midgardsormr minion has evolved into Midgardsormr mount. I just love it.

7. On the other hand, I don't like what happened in Ul'dah. Should've killed Nanamo off for good and have Ul'dah go rogue. But that's about it for now.

1. I agree I wholeheartly loved Icehearts role in the story albeit short lived she melted the ice that was on my heart after fighting her D: the deaths were sad but done very well for the characters that perished.

2. Sadly the Azure Dragoon let his guard down when they defeated Nidhogg, not only this but he did not take into account the malice from both eyes may be too much for him to handle, to be honest the Warrior of Light should have held onto one and perhaps could have prevented him from going insane from Nidhogg and losing himself. I agree we'll see him probably sooner than later.

3. I was also shocked by him taking down one of the Ascians I laughed at how Lahabrea got his ass handed to him not once BUT TWICE! Maybe he needs to stay dead but who knows little bastard may pop up again down the line >_>.

5. I was actually surprised Tiamat was so timid I kinda figured she would be enraged that Bahamut was revived and slain again, I do think that down the line the Ascians may unbind her and attempt to use her to enrage midgardsomr to some end.

6. This wasn't as much as a surprise to me, mostly because of when fighting him and using his minion you see his unique head which when I saw on other dragons kinda knew it was midgardsomr, I still have him ride on my shoulder as a minion to blow blue flames at people xD.


I am very happy on how Alexander is being done, a mix of comedy and difficulty, Every cutscene is almost always Goblins getting blown up or shot at xD

 

[Rey]

I want to start by saying that I really DID NOT ENJOY the story of ARR and this post is specifically about what I felt Heavensward improved on greatly. Upon buying Heavensward, I really did not expect much from the story, but oh, boy was I wrong! Heavensward incorporates a typical but more interesting side of the JRPG STORY genre. Ishgard was an amazing setting for the story and the new environments are beautiful. I really like The Sea of Clouds, Foundation, Dravanian Hinterlands, and Idylshire (the city in Dravania) I didn't expect an mmo expansion to have a great story at all, so I'm going to go over the pros and cons of the story, and also the questions I have that are still lingering.

DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU HAVE NOT COMPLETED THE EXPANSION. You should not be in this thread in the first place.

Pros

I. Ysayle. I love this character and you are damn right I was sad when she died at the end. I really enjoyed her voice acting; I thought she had one of the most powerful voices in Heavensward because she does not do much in ARR. She is a lovely woman who happens to bring emotion what was a very mediocre story. She was the voice of Ishgard AND Dravania, and really had a powerful effect on the Dragonsong War. Obviously, I do not know much about mmo story driven games, but I thought her role really made the story great. Now, I just wish you could get her outfit.

II. Haucherfant of Coerthas's death. This moment created a powerful moment in the story. He swore to save Ishgard with his honour, and that moment for me was just a huge climax. He tried to block the lance of the knightstwevle but it just was not enough. The shield piercing him was very sad, but imo, it made Ishgard stronger as a nation in Eorzea. Like people said in this thread, it was a sad but very well done death. However, it was easy to see coming if you really pay attention.

III. HILDA. This chick was awesome for the short screentime she got! She makes me want to level up a machinist, oh and not to mention I like her voice actor. I am sure I recognized her voice from Witcher III. Still, pointing a gun and not giving two cents about the knighstwelve was amazing. She is actually really cool!

IV. Not a story focused on MINFILLIA ORDERING YOU AROUND. Exactly, you heard me! The story has deep meaning in the expansion because Minfillia is not there to look pretty while making you her bitch. As much as Minfillia is nice to look at, I'm glad she didn't have a single appearance in Heavensward. She frankly did not deserve it. ARR was just so paltry compared to the epic HW lore and story. Some of the fetch quests in HW actually have meaning and I really enjoyed that about it.

V. The wyrms. Dravanian speak was very interesting and I enjoyed the lore between Nidhogg and Hraesvelgr. I do feel that Nidhogg had a quite underwhelming "death" because the story kept telling you he was such a badass dragon, etc. Then again, Nobody is more badass than Midgardsomr.

VI. Midgardsomr. A misunderstood villain in ARR that later becomes a mountable fucking dragon in Heavensward? I mean, that was a high point for me! I really do enjoy his voice as well.

VII. Regula Van Hydrus. I need to give a shout out to this guy for his badass armour and music during that duty fight. It was so epic that I was really in the moment. Honestly, I felt the empire had a very small role in the expansion, but it was much more memorable than anything ARR threw at us. I mean, their leader still is not dead! (Hint hint)

VIII. The primals. I really enjoyed both fights. Ravana came off as a badass hive warrior who craved nothing but destruction but his role in the story was very short. Both new primals are two new story elements that appear for very little screen time. I was somewhat sad that they did not have more of a role. Like, when I visited Ok Zundu they were all like go catch the flying whale and steal the key to Azys LLa, The fight with Bismarck is really similar to Sin's fins in FFX, in fact, I'm convinced SE ran out of ideas on that one. It was an annoying fight though with all those weather effects.

IX. The OST. I really need to put this down, as a pro because the OST is simply awesome in Heavensward. So many amazing tracks really go well with the story. I want to say the last battle's OST really felt godly, even more so than when you fight Ultima in ARR. I really enjoyed the theme in Matoya's cave, the last battle with Thordan, the battle themes in Dravania, and Nidhogg's theme.

Wow, look at all the good stuff I said about Heavensward! I guess people reading it really think I liked it a lot. Yes, that is true, but it does have some cons and plotholes.

Cons

I. The story is just so obvious at times. Square Enix did not even try with King Thordan. I knew he was the main villain ever since I saw him with the Ascians in that scene in ARR. However, it does not seem like Elidibus made an appearance until the end with a new character called the warrior of darkness. Although these are typical JRPG tropes, I really think it is better than what ARR cooked up out of its arse.

II. Plotholes..... Sadly, there are many of them and I hope they get answered in the future.

I. Urianger. I mean... wait... we see him turn evil at the end of ARR? In HW, none of that is answered and it quite royally pissed me off. I would not even be surprised if Urianger has something to do with our new villain in the epilogue, tbh. He just seems evil, imo. I want to know what is behind those goggles, but nope, we won't find out until the next story content happens.

II. Y'shtola. Oh cool, we see one of the best scions revived but wait a minute! You are telling me that nobody notices her eyes were white and not blue but her master Matoya? That is just silly, Square Enix. I honestly do not know where they pulled that from, but it was a plothole. Also, it is supposively because of her spell she used, and it is also supposed to take life away from her gradually. Did any of that happen? Nope. We did not even see Y'shtola in pain like once.

III. Minfillia. Ok, she does not appear but is mentioned. Did the characters not think about going to search for her body? All the game told me was that there were thousands of dead Crystal Braves underground. 2spooky5me.

IV. The Warrior of Darkness. Is he/she just a palette swap of your very own character? He looks like the Hyur male we saw in trailers, so I am thinking that. Actually, I still think it can be Minfillia and the appearance is not finalized yet.

V. Estinien. Ok, so he becomes Nidhogg through the power of Nidhogg's eye at the end. What I don't understand is how? It seemed like a lazy plot point because Nidhogg was just so easily plowed through in The Aery. I can see it now at SE'S round table. "I have a brilliant idea guys. Let's make the player kill Nidhogg but also turn one of the best characters into Nidhogg so they can fight him for real" facepalm

VI. Ascians are said to have almost limitless power yet Lahabrea somehow he dies in one fell swoop by Thordan. Ok.

VII. The Emperor of the Garlean Empire. What in the hell happened to him? It is said in the ending that he will still fight Eorzea. Why?

Lastly, Nanamo Ul Nunamo. I thought her resurrection was stupidly done. It completely rendered the crazy cutscene at the end of ARR useless. Nanamo is just as useless in HW as well.

There we have it. I give the HW story an 8/10 for effort.

Oh and I still don't know what SE are doing with Hydaelyn. I she evil? Just look at the epilogue.

 

[Linnaete]

Well, that took me long enough to finish the story.

General Thoughts

A Realm Reborn's story did not hesitate to completely halt the plot to send the player on a wild goose chase/long shopping list of errand demands simply to pad out 20 main scenario quests worth of content. Few can forget the extremely roundabout way we had to visit Gridania in hopes of parleying with the Sylphs, then track down and rescue their leader, only to learn in a pitifully underwhelming fashion that Ramuh is not about to be summoned. How about the litany of quests (including one dungeon just for cheese) we embarked upon simply to prove to a band of rabble called the "Company of Heroes" that we, the Warrior of Light and feller of Ifrit, are worthy of taking on Titan?

Fortunately, Heavensward ditches much of its predecessor's fluff for a far tighter narrative. It by no means completely eschews 2.0's fondness of stopping the plot with contrived problems, however. It still forces us to work with at least three beast tribes and solve their idiosyncratic problems first before we can return to chasing the bigger picture. The major difference is that we are not bogged down artificially with a dozen hours' worth of errand running before we can find the plot again. The expansion pushes the narrative ahead with a pacing very reminiscent with that of the older Final Fantasy narratives, with each new zone structured in a way that really accentuates this old-school adventuring feeling. You enter a new zone, come across a settlement, traverse through the wilderness, perhaps discover another settlement, with the clear short-term goal in mind of braving a particularly dangerous dungeon at the end of this trip.

The story, frankly, is predictable. Few would not have guessed that the true historic villains behind the Dragonsong War would be the original settlers and founders of Ishgard, rather than the dragons. In fact, anyone who has kept abreast of the wider Eorzean lore, supplemented by the Coils of Bahamut story, you would have known that the Allagans did all sorts of weird shit to a wide host of life forms, including the dragons of Meracydia. When the subtext of all this points to man being the horrible creature it is, is anyone surprised that man is once again the progenitor of evil, be it Allagan or Ishgardian? Mind you, being predictable is not an inherent sin. I don't expect a narrative to break completely new ground and upturn tropes each time. A predictable story can be sufficiently elevated with fine execution and HOW you retread these familiar themes. I shan't grade Heavensward's story with amazing marks for this, because it is by no means an excellent story, but I can award it an accolade for effort.

The Archbishop's main aspiration in the story is to enter Azys Lla, but the story does not seem to clearly explain to us exactly what he needs Azys Lla for. He already possesses the other eye of Nidhogg and a millennium's worth of fervent prayers to ascend to godhood, which strikes me as odd, because the man had always had his tools by his side. I presume he has journeyed to Azys Lla, much like the Garleans, to seek out its secrets and perhaps find out a method to permanently sustain his divine essence without completely bleeding the land of aether, but the story does not sufficiently expound on this. The player is left to make an educated guess. When this forms such a core crux of the Archbishop's motivation in the game, it seems rather odd to leave it so vague.

Lahabrea could simply have been the only involved Ascian in the plot. There is zero need for Igeyorhm to be present, and what little we know of this new villain is so scant and so fleeting that one wonders why they even bothered. No one is going to remember her. Lahabrea could have been the only one to show up, present an alliance with the Archbishop, and personally show up following Bismarck's defeat to snatch the Vanu key from the adventurer. It would have made no difference. Conveniently having another auracite at hand to throw at Igeyorhm only adds to the sense of contrivance.

Man, I loved it when the story goes into detail about the metaphysical properties of the Primals. The Shiva that Ysayle can take the form of? An imagined Shiva. The King Thordan that the Archbishop takes the form of? An imagined Thordan and the Knights of the Round, created from 1000 years of prayer. The Bahamut that was locked inside Dalamud for millennia and nearly destroyed the realm entirely? A corrupted vision of the real Bahamut. It certainly enriches our understanding of what Primals are and helps us understand why they are such a blight to the land. The only difficult Primals left to explain are perhaps Alexander (prayers and imagination alone can culminate in condensed aether settling on a physical form as massive and complex as Alexander?) and Odin. Also, Tiamat's tale is genuinely depressing. It's not helped that you only meet her as a weak and enchained subject of the Allagans, presumably trapped there alone for millennia. So blighted with guilt of what she had inadvertently done, she does not seek even freedom and accepts eternal entrapment as penance. Damn. Bloody hell, Midgardsormr, at least talk her out of it!

Estinien I've been rather cold towards, because I originally just saw him as someone trying too hard to be a foil for Ysayle. Fortunately, I've warmed to him over time, and he isn't this stubborn person rigidly sticking to the dogma he was told like Wakka. I appreciate how he slowly comes to respect Ysayle, despite the wildly different philosophies and methods. As for Ysayle...man, what a character. While the overall execution of her character can be spotty here (she had willingly lowered the barriers to the Steps of Faith to allow Vishap and his army through, and NEVER PROPERLY CONTEMPLATED the possibility that these angry dragon hordes might actually cause unbridled carnage?) and there (she makes amends with Hraesvelgr offscreen, which is a rather quick and convenient turn of events, when the last we see of them, she launches into a rage at the elderly dragon for allowing Nidhogg to wage his war), I really like her character. She's still like a trope-laden ice queen who thaws (quickly), but you do sympathise for her plight, her story, her goal, the hard decisions she has to make, her realisation that her methods may have fucked things up, and her startling realisation that everything she had believed in was in essence, a false figment.

Something has to give, I suppose. The ludicrous climax of Patch 2.55's story, ridiculous as it is, does set up a rather solid cliffhanger ending featuring Lord Lolorito, his Brass Blade sellswords and the Crystal Braves as major follow-up antagonists. What does 3.0 decide to do? Let's completely unmake the situation! Let's completely undo the gravity of the threat built up at the end of 2.55 in one single instanced fight sequence that occurs BEFORE the player can even acquire flight for the first expansion zone. The dramatic death of the Sultana and that whole, elaborate scheme set up by Lolorito. Undone, essentially. The diminutive dictator-to-be still effectively managed to cause the deaths of nearly all Scion members (as far as you know), but let's let this all slide, because he has saved the Sultana from actual death. Deflate Lolorito completely as a villain and stick him back on the Syndicate panel as if barely anything has happened. Teledji Adeleji was the actual bad potato, you see. What now of the Omega Weapon underneath Carteneau? Bugger all now. We can forget that super important subplot point now, can't we?

Other Thoughts

- Well, so much for the Hilda character, when we barely see much of her. Also, for a supposed leader of the lowborn in The Brume, they collectively seem too accommodating of the Ishgardian leadership under Aymeric. If I were them, I wouldn't care that the Church was lying up its arse for so long, because my main concern would be food, warmth, and anything to ease my daily suffering. I'd still be fighting for food and some good old retribution against the highborn. Heck, Ishgard seems so much more well-adjusted compared to bloody Ul'dah, despite the former having physical signs of an enormous socio-economic gulf.

- Additionally, following on from above, we see another scenario of the told-but-not-seen syndrome. While arguably not as pronounced a problem as post-FFXIII's scenario of Cocoon survivors barely batting an eyelid at the reality that they have to not only contend with the fact that every facet of their society has been a lie for thousands of years, but also that they have to settle on an untamed world that was long ingrained into their heads as a place of unmitigated evil and hell. Here is Ishgard, seemingly quite okay and non-riot-ey about the reality that the Church had lied to them for so long, which is rather extraordinary for what is easily the most paranoid society in all of Eorzea. Heretics! Heretics! The Inquisition! No one expects it!

- HAURCHEFANT! ;__; .....even if your death should have been predicted from a mile away, because anyone who talks about the honour of being a chivalric knight serving others, blah blah blah, is marked for death. But man, Haurchefant was expressly killed off to pull our heartstrings, because Yoshi-P knows how popular the guy is. Yoshi-P's a dick.

- Yeah, we didn't need to have the Garlean Emperor personally show up just to tell us what we already know about the Garleans. They have a missionary zeal to protect the planet by committing genocide on the beast tribes who are capable of summoning Eikons, we know. So I will ask again: why does Varis have to show up in person in the 3.0 story? I'd happily wait for another, more fitting opportunity in the future for the party to bump into it.

- For something as hugely significant and referential as the Warring Triad (presumably they were Primals that the Allagans managed to capture in order to prevent total destruction of the realm, who knows...), there is startlingly so little to do with them. They are barely expounded upon and nor is the plot very interested in doing anything with them...at least yet. So for now, we're left only to stare at them in Azys Lla as a kind of explicit Easter egg.

- Regula van Hydrus goes out like a bitch, doesn't he? In fact, the Garleans are pitifully tertiary as villains this time round. For a mission as crucial as unlocking the secrets of Azys Lla - which involves being willing to dedicate DAYS worth of lost time, fuel and energy to wait patiently for the Warrior of Light to somehow find a way to pierce the barrier going into Azys Lla, assuming that was guaranteed to even happen - Hydrus really gives up on it quickly. Presumably the party isn't going to leave Azys Lla nonchalantly if the imperials are still maintaining a heavy presence there, so after the Archbishop is put down, we can just assume that the VIth Legion...pisses off just like that? You're no Nael van Darnus, VIth Legion Legatus.

- The Warrior of Darkness. Now you bring him up, after the Warrior of Light has reached Level 5 Godhood or whatever, and with 3 of your Ascian brethren dead? Why does he look like a standard Derplander? And why are they on the Moon? Good lord, is a future expansion going to take inspiration from FFIV and feature the Moon as a new setting? Is that mysterious ship in The Sea of Clouds related to a Lunar Whale? Will we see whether the Allagans have also built lunar bases as well? Very plausible. This was a civilisation able to create magical-engineering feats such as the Crystal Tower, Azys Lla, and freakin' Dalamud of all things.

- Lucia is the late Livia's sister. Y'shtola is the sister of Y'mitra, the quest giver for the Summoner job quests. I suppose these sudden familial connections are cute and all, but I fear them going a little overboard with this in the future. When you forcibly connect previously unlinked NPCs as kin like this, you make the world seem smaller.

- Goblins = best beast tribe. Undisputed fact, kindly uplander!