NY gov says Islamic group won't relocate mosque

[The Witch]

ALBANY, N.Y. — Gov. David Paterson said Wednesday that developers of an Islamic cultural center that would include a mosque near ground zero have rejected his offer to help them find a different site.

While in Manhattan, Paterson said the group apparently wants to remain with its current plans to build near the site of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

"I think they would like to stay where they are, and I certainly respect that and I certainly respect them," Paterson said after the group spoke with one of his staff members. "Having said that, how much more foresighted would it have been if the Imam who is the developer of the project had been willing to hear what we are actually talking about?"

The mosque, to be located two blocks from ground zero, would be part of a 13-story, $100 million Islamic center that would feature a 500-seat auditorium, a swimming pool and a gym. It's a project of the Cordoba Initiative, an advocacy group that promotes improved relations between Islam and the West.

Critics are suspicious of who will fund the project, and developers haven't released their sources of capital. Opponents also say the religion that fueled the hatred in the terrorists shouldn't be displayed so near the site.

Wednesday, Paterson described some opponents of the project as "shrill" and said they were acting out of political self-interest. But most, he said, appreciate the Constitution's guarantee of freedom of religion while feeling "badgered" by pain following the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center.

"I wanted to talk to them (the developers) about what was the possibility of just having a conversation about would there be a way to provide a center for people of the Muslim faith in lower Manhattan, and it not interfere with what is still a memorial to what happened on September 11," Paterson said.

"I hope that the type of cultural understanding that they are trying to promote when they build this center could be practiced right now," he added.

New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who accompanied Paterson, again defended the project.

"I always believed that government should not be involved in deciding who you pray to, what you say or where you say it," Bloomberg said.

Copyright 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

SOURCE

How far is two blocks away you ask?

(click images to make bigger)

 

[DarkShadow]

I don't see anything wrong with this........

Sure it's near ground zero,but it's a mosque..........

It's not like it's a training camp for terrorists to blow up stuff!It's a holy place and people who view muslims as terrorists are the ones that are saying this, there just ignorant the terrorists are extremists and I'm sure this mosque will be monitered and nothing will come out of it.

It might even give the chance for people to understand the religion of millions of people...........rather than people who just judge by the action of what a few muslims do.

 

[blakstang98]

First and foremost, this thread topic was locked before because of hate and discontent. So do NOT let me see such actions happening again.

I'm still in disagreement about the mosque being built so close to Ground Zero. The wound is still too fresh to start building religious centers (of any religion), in my opinion. Sure, its not on Ground Zero, but it's still right there, as 2 blocks in NYC is really close.

I also heard that they plan on opening it on September 11, 2011. Ten years to the day, coincidence? There is a fine line. I mean, Muslims are a bad name in America because the attacks were done in the name of said religion. Is it fair to reprimand all people that practice Muslim? Absolutely not. Are there still extreme Muslims? Yes there are. Is it risky from a National Security standpoint for Muslims to be so close to Ground Zero? I would think so, just because even with close monitoring of their activities, and the fact that 99% of them may be innocent, there is still a chance of the "bad seed" to be there. In my opinion, why create such controversy? Muslims may want to display their religion for others, to get people to join their faith, but does it have to be in NYC near Ground Zero? The mosque can be built further away. And I feel that this is the main reason it raises a red flag for many people, including myself. Why so close?

 

[The Witch]

And I feel that this is the main reason it raises a red flag for many people, including myself. Why so close?

Yes, exactly. The wounds are just too fresh and there's no need for it to be just up the road from Ground Zero.

I also heard that they plan on opening it on September 11, 2011. Ten years to the day, coincidence?

I didn't know that.

 

[blakstang98]

I didn't know that.

Well, I heard this from a co-worker who keeps up with the news. Do I know where he read this from? I don't, so I can't confirm anything. I do know he will use reliable sources though, but I don't know where he read this. Do some research.

 

[DarkShadow]

Well that is a cheeky time...........lol

But it is the holy month of ramadan and the 11th of september may be Eid...........

though I'm not sure.......but I can say they would like their mosque open in time for Eid which is around september 11-ish. I think it may be the 11th though I'm not sure.

 

[bearsfwd]

I probably wouldn't mind it so much if it was just simply a mosque...but since it's going to apparently be pretty elaborate ("$100 million Islamic center that would feature a 500-seat auditorium, a swimming pool and a gym"), I'm actually not too keen on it. I'm very tolerant to these types of things, but I just think a building that elaborate doesn't belong at or near ground zero.

However, another part of me just wants to say "You know what. It really was a tragedy. But it was almost 9 years ago. It's time to move forward." I mean, did people dwell on Pearl Harbor for 9-10 years after it happened? It happened 45 years before I was born, so I'm seriously wondering.

As long as there is a memorial or some sort at ground zero (I thought there were plans for one...I haven't really followed up on what is going to be put in the area)

 

[Rasputin]

I also heard that they plan on opening it on September 11, 2011. Ten years to the day, coincidence? There is a fine line. I mean, Muslims are a bad name in America because the attacks were done in the name of said religion. Is it fair to reprimand all people that practice Muslim? Absolutely not. Are there still extreme Muslims? Yes there are. Is it risky from a National Security standpoint for Muslims to be so close to Ground Zero? I would think so, just because even with close monitoring of their activities, and the fact that 99% of them may be innocent, there is still a chance of the "bad seed" to be there. In my opinion, why create such controversy? Muslims may want to display their religion for others, to get people to join their faith, but does it have to be in NYC near Ground Zero? The mosque can be built further away. And I feel that this is the main reason it raises a red flag for many people, including myself. Why so close?

You want to know why? So ignorant, intolerant Americans get it through their sorry heads that Muslims are not going to bow down to their unwarranted hatred, and they're not going to change their beliefs simply because their faith occasionally conflicts with mainstream Christianity. Hell, they should build the mosque right on top of Ground Zero, just to anger as many bigoted New Yorkers as possible. As for what the center is actually going to contain, here's a description from Arsalan Iftikhar, an established lawyer and political writer:

...the Manhattan building in question already includes a prayer space for Muslims. That building is what they will actually tear down in order to build a larger $100 million community center for New Yorkers of all religions; where there will be bookstores, restaurants, art galleries and yes, even a Muslim prayer room.

I think his description of the value of mosques in general in attempting to prevent terrorism is also pretty spot on:

Simply put, Islamophobia has become ridiculously out of hand. For those who argue that mosques are somehow inherently breeding grounds for extremism, a two-year joint study by Duke University's Sanford School of Public Policy and the University of North Carolina concluded that American "mosques are actually a deterrent to the spread of militant Islam and terrorism."
The professors in the joint study further highlighted that "many mosque leaders had put significant effort into countering extremism by building youth programs, sponsoring anti-violence forums and scrutinizing teachers and texts."

Anyone who calls themselves a freedom loving American and then attempts to deny these people the right to practice their faith are truly sick and deluded individuals.

 

[CassinoChips]

Does anyone know how many mosques/Muslim prayer centers are actually already present within a two block radius of Ground Zero? I bet it's more than one. Why haven't these been torn down? They're obviously harboring/training Al-Qaida operatives.

Did you know there are four Christian churches within a four block radius of the Murrah Building that was blown up in Oklahoma City, which previous to 9/11 was the deadliest act of terrorism on U.S. soil? The closest one being built AFTER the attack? Timothy McVeigh was a Christian. Where's the outrage? Clearly we must hold the entire religion accountable for the actions of a small minority.

And, clearly, the wounds are not still fresh, as we (read: Republicans) voted down a bill that guaranteed health care to anyone who was affected by toxins from the attack. So apparently we don't actually care all that much, really.

 

[Rasputin]

Washington (CNN) -- President Obama threw his support behind a controversial proposal to build an Islamic center and mosque near New York's ground zero, saying Friday that "Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country."

"That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances," Obama said at a White House Iftar dinner celebrating the Islamic holy month of Ramadan.

There you go folks, President Obama supports it, so it's pretty much guaranteed to happen now. All the silly naysayers can just put down their signs and go away.

And just so we can laugh at how ignorant they are, here's the screenshot of the article that was posted on CNN:

 

[Harlequin]

The mosque, to be located two blocks from ground zero, would be part of a 13-story, $100 million Islamic center that would feature a 500-seat auditorium, a swimming pool and a gym. It's a project of the Cordoba Initiative, an advocacy group that promotes improved relations between Islam and the West....

"I hope that the type of cultural understanding that they are trying to promote when they build this center could be practiced right now," he added

So by insisting on building a mosque a few hundred yards from Ground Zero these particular muslims believe some animosity will dissapate? That it will breed understanding?

Now to me, Ground Zero is little more than an expanse of soil, but it's obviously quite valuable to some Americans symbolically. What does it say of the Cordoba Initiative's tolerance and understanding (aspects they want to inspire in the West) that they are willing to ignore certain cultural qualms in their desire to spread their religion?

Respect works both ways. The CI is being hardheaded in their approach. They want something therefore they will have it.

"I always believed that government should not be involved in deciding who you pray to, what you say or where you say it," Bloomberg said.

That's the Mayor of New York?

First off, the government are heavily involved in what you say and where you say it. Shout bomb in an airport and see what happens. In this case he's referencing religion which is fair enough only things aren't as simple as that are they? What if certain ideals are taught that the government doesn't like? It's certainly happened here in the UK, but then we're faced with an intolerance complex.

Hell, they should build the mosque right on top of Ground Zero, just to anger as many bigoted New Yorkers as possible.

Fight bigotry with bigotry?

Clearly we must hold the entire religion accountable for the actions of a small minority.

I've realised that this is sarcasm but why has the concept of targeting a religion for criticism become so taboo? Why is it we've become so freedom obsessed that we've begun limiting our own beliefs?

If I hear a Christian man has commited what I perceive to be an atrocity and cites Bible verses I'll go take a look at those verses and if I believe that's what they say, I make my own assessment, If I don't, then I brand him a lunatic or minority.

 

[Kei]

I still can't see anything wrong with it being built there.

Think about it this way, Muslims are prohibited from destroying mosques, so since most of people blame Islam for terrorism, then be happy, there won't be any terrorism attacks in that area anymore.

I'm not interested in the whole subject, will just leave America to Americans.

 

[Toshiya]

I'm not American so obviously my feelings towards this will differ - it's not a sore subject for me at all.

I'm in between arguments here - on one hand, I think that if the Muslims want to build a mosque somewhere they can, because of the 'religious freedom' in America - they're perfectly entitled to. And the whole religion should not be blamed, it's just a few extremists, of course.

However, it's quite obviously upset a lot of Americans and it's still been pushed for. I'm sure there's plenty more places to build a mosque and since it's caused such uproar... why have they persisted and done it there? There's no need, they could just move it a bit further away, even if it is just to please people.

 

[DarkShadow]

To me the only ones complaining are people who blame Islam for 9/11 and all the terrorism. Just imagine 9/11 never happened,would this really be a big deal? No

But just because a few muslims decided to fly a few planes into the world trade center most americans are now against muslims.

And plus nearly all of these terrorists are located elsewhere in Pakistan,Afghanistan,Iraq etc.

I'm not saying there are no terrorists in America,but even if there was they would go somewhere else for training.............Like Afghanistan

And this mosque isn't a place for training........And if you say it can inspire terrorism..........then think of shutting down every mosque in America!

 

[CassinoChips]

So by insisting on building a mosque a few hundred yards from Ground Zero these particular muslims believe some animosity will dissapate? That it will breed understanding?

Eventually, yes. In a "Hey, they're not really that bad after all" sort of way. The problem is that the animosity comes mainly from people who will never set foot in NYC more than once or twice in their lifetime, so unfortunately it will be a slow, painful process. The animosity comes from the ignorance of a relatively small group of people. So they're choosing to combat the ignorance head on. Similar to Freedom workers in the South during the Civil Rights Era.

Now to me, Ground Zero is little more than an expanse of soil, but it's obviously quite valuable to some Americans symbolically. What does it say of the Cordoba Initiative's tolerance and understanding (aspects they want to inspire in the West) that they are willing to ignore certain cultural qualms in their desire to spread their religion?

Because, again, the qualms come out of sheer ignorance. Ground Zero may be symbolic to a small number of Americans, but a building two blocks away is not.

Respect works both ways. The CI is being hardheaded in their approach. They want something therefore they will have it.

The only 'respect' they want is the right to build a religious building on a plot of land they've legally purchased. The same respect that would be afforded a Christian church, a Buddhist temple, a Jewish synagogue, etc. Respect that, allegedly, is built into our Constitution. But they are being singled out because they are specifically Muslim. That is wrong.

First off, the government are heavily involved in what you say and where you say it. Shout bomb in an airport and see what happens.

Our government is not in the business of prosecuting opinion. The 'fire in a crowded theater' argument is a safety issue, and those types of situations are specifically delineated.

In this case he's referencing religion which is fair enough only things aren't as simple as that are they? What if certain ideals are taught that the government doesn't like? It's certainly happened here in the UK, but then we're faced with an intolerance complex.

If a church or church leader specifically takes a political approach while preaching in a service, or endorses a candidate, or endorses a party, that church is in danger of losing its status as a church. For example, if a government agent heard a preacher at a local church say "Abortion is a sin," no problem. But if that same preacher said "Candidate X believes that abortion is a sin. S/he would be a good choice in the upcoming election," they could be stripped of their status. Which, in most cases, would bankrupt the church. Threaten any religious building over here with losing their tax-exempt status, and they'll freak out. The only way they do that is when they start losing their focus on being a religious group.

Of course, that doesn't apply outside the walls of the church. For example, Mormon church leader Rick Warren going on Faux News and saying he's for Prop 8 (the gay marriage ban in California) isn't covered under this, as it's not during a church service.

I've realised that this is sarcasm but why has the concept of targeting a religion for criticism become so taboo? Why is it we've become so freedom obsessed that we've begun limiting our own beliefs?

Nothing wrong with criticizing a religious institution or its adherents. I do it all the time. The problem in this case is that the criticism only exists for the one religion in one specific case, when the same criticism could be applied to another religion for the exact same reasons. But it isn't. Which is hypocrisy. And that's all I was pointing out through that example. The inherent hypocrisy in the argument.

 

[Marquis of Granby]

First and foremost, this thread topic was locked before because of hate and discontent. So do NOT let me see such actions happening again.

I'm still in disagreement about the mosque being built so close to Ground Zero. The wound is still too fresh to start building religious centers (of any religion), in my opinion. Sure, its not on Ground Zero, but it's still right there, as 2 blocks in NYC is really close.

I also heard that they plan on opening it on September 11, 2011. Ten years to the day, coincidence? There is a fine line. I mean, Muslims are a bad name in America because the attacks were done in the name of said religion. Is it fair to reprimand all people that practice Muslim? Absolutely not. Are there still extreme Muslims? Yes there are. Is it risky from a National Security standpoint for Muslims to be so close to Ground Zero? I would think so, just because even with close monitoring of their activities, and the fact that 99% of them may be innocent, there is still a chance of the "bad seed" to be there. In my opinion, why create such controversy? Muslims may want to display their religion for others, to get people to join their faith, but does it have to be in NYC near Ground Zero? The mosque can be built further away. And I feel that this is the main reason it raises a red flag for many people, including myself. Why so close?

no.

america throws its weight about all the time, so its hardly surprising there are people who would want to carry out attacks like this. collectively the "good christian" views of america have probably killed thousands times as many people as any extremist actions, and yet this is the only event thats constantly banged on about. extremists carried out the attack, not muslims. extremists who justified their actions using islamic scripture. ask any muslim who doesnt go about blowing themselves up whether they condone the actions of these people. ask any islamic leader who doesnt send people on suicide missions.

if i start preaching hate and happen to mention jesus or god or quote the bible that doesnt make me a christian. so it shouldnt be the case with extremists who just happen to quote from islamic scripture.

the wound is only fresh as long as we're talking about muslims. if burger king wanted to build a branch 2 blocks away, 1 block away or even right on "ground zero" no one would bat an eyelid. but because its an islamic centre we all want to shit our pants over it.

im not religious, so im about as welcoming towards a mosque as i am towards a church or any other place of worship. i'd rather there were none, but i dont get this irrational fear of islam (over any other faith). if it was all about killing people we'd probably all be dead by now, since we're not we can assume theyre just as...harmless (what a joke) as any other faith.

 

[The Witch]

Okay, first of all. There's 200 Mosques in New York. There's only 2 near Ground Zero. One two blocks behind Park Place, it's on Warren St close to City Hall Park. And no, it is not a MEGA mosque. There's a HUGE difference. And of course, you have Trinity Wallstreet. But that's not very close to Ground Zero.

So, people getting angry over this Mosque on Park Pl. isn't just because. People are angry because it is so close to Ground Zero.

america throws its weight about all the time, so its hardly surprising there are people who would want to carry out attacks like this. collectively the "good christian" views of america have probably killed thousands times as many people as any extremist actions, and yet this is the only event thats constantly banged on about. extremists carried out the attack, not muslims. extremists who justified their actions using islamic scripture. ask any muslim who doesnt go about blowing themselves up whether they condone the actions of these people. ask any islamic leader who doesnt send people on suicide missions.

What's the difference between an extremist Chrsitian/Buddhist/Jew/etc and an extremist Muslim?
Don't know the answer?

An extremist Christian/ Buddhist/Jew/etc might share the crazy characteristic a Muslim extremist has--but the difference between them is that the holy-book Christians/ Buddhists/Jews/etc follow DO NOT preach violence, they do not tell their followers to "kill infidels", they do not tell their male followers to "beat their woman", they do not tell their followers to "smile in the face of the infidel and curse them in your hearts at the same time".

That's the difference. The Qur'an tells its followers to do the terrible things "extremist Muslims" do--hence why it's their religion(I prefer not to call it that but whatever).

So, when someone says any religious follower is just as "violent" as a Muslim well, the difference is, the Bible doesn't tell Christians/Catholics to do those terrible things. It's the crazy follower doing it themselves without the bible backing them in any such way. Unlike the Qur'an--which literally tells Muslims to "terrorize the disbelievers".

So, yes, Islam is a violent religion--in a matter of fact, I don't even think it's a religion. It's a hate following.

 

[Marquis of Granby]

thats utter bullshit.

i'm fairly certain youve never read the qu'ran, nor have i, so i dont presume that it incites violence anymore or less than any other religion. islam is likely more true to its roots than christianity is considering how much it has changed. they accept homosexuality, though the bible says its wrong, they dont sanction crusades against muslims anymore, in the last two hundred years the chirstian god suddenly decided that black people werent inferior.

christianity is just as bad as the islam youre projecting. the only difference is that it has changed to suit the western culture. in britain a muslim woman wont be stoned to death for being raped, that just wouldnt be allowed, though i suspect there are some british extremists who claim to be islamic that would welcome things like that.

you only see these things as terrible because youre a westerner. america is in no position to judge the correctness of any other country's culture, even if it is highly influenced by a religion. if your country wasnt so ready to do this there wouldnt be so many people who hated it and wanted to attack it.

 

[DarkShadow]

@Forty Six & 2

wtf? that's bullshit.........

why don't you properly research islam.......

and since you think that why don't you give me a verse in the quran that directly tells a muslim to blow themself up or kill non-believers.

So don't come up here saying shit like that when you have nothing to back it up with!

 

[CassinoChips]

And no, it is not a MEGA mosque. There's a HUGE difference.

Yes, clearly the swimming pool is causing problems.

An extremist Christian/ Buddhist/Jew/etc might share the crazy characteristic a Muslim extremist has--but the difference between them is that the holy-book Christians/ Buddhists/Jews/etc follow DO NOT preach violence, they do not tell their followers to "kill infidels", they do not tell their male followers to "beat their woman", they do not tell their followers to "smile in the face of the infidel and curse them in your hearts at the same time".

The Lord is a man of war. - Exodus 15:3

Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. - Numbers 31:17

Behold, the people shall rise up as a great lion, and lift up himself as a young lion: he shall not lie down until he eat of the prey, and drink the blood of the slain. - Numbers 23:24

And as for thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, whom thou shalt have; of the nations that are round about you, of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.

Moreover of the children of the strangers that sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they have begotten in your land: and they shall be your possession. And ye shall make them an inheritance for your children after you, to hold for a possession; of them shall ye take your bondmen for ever: - Leviticus 25:44-46

And as for these enemies of mine who didn’t want me to be their king—bring them in and execute them right here in front of me. - Luke 19:27

Just as the church is subject to Christ, so also wives ought to be, in everything, to their husbands. - Ephesians 5:24

No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing. Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. - Genesis 19:7

As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies. - Deuteronomy 20:14

Happy is the one who takes your babies
and smashes them against the rocks! - Psalm 137:9

Suppose a man has intercourse with a young woman who is a virgin but is not engaged to be married. If they are discovered,
he must pay her father fifty pieces of silver. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her - Deuteronomy 22:28-29

And on and on and on....