“Japan’s never been very receptive to foreign games,”

[Sultan]

Unlike Hironobu Sakaguchi whose tweets mainly consist of pictures of the fucking sky, Hitoshi Sakimoto tends to have more interesting tweets. One of his most recent ones is a link to an article to which he comments: "I'm a bit different". The article states as such:

Japan’s never been very receptive to foreign games,” says Gwyn Campbell, who works for a major game publisher in Tokyo and is the host of a gaming podcast with other expatriates. “The term ‘foreign game’ is traditionally an insult — it means ‘low quality.’”
The anti-Western prejudice is deeply ingrained in the minds of Japanese gamers, who traditionally favor handheld devices like the Nintendo DS over high-powered consoles like the Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3.
Yo-ge, kuso-ge, goes the saying: “Western game, shit game.”
Still, partly because high-def game development is so expensive and partly because they see an undeveloped market just waiting to be tapped, Japanese publishers are pushing foreign games with increasing vigor in their home country, even though the domestic audience has historically been loath to try them.
“These companies want to make money,” says Campbell. “They’ve got these games, these assets that exist, and they’re trying to bring them over.”

At the Tokyo Game Show, which runs from Thursday to Sunday here, many of the big games on the show floor are being developed outside Japan. Square Enix’s most popular franchises — like Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts, games that move millions of units in Japan alone — are relegated to a small corner of the company’s massive booth.
Instead, the majority of Square Enix’s show-floor space is given over to Western-made games it is publishing this year under the label Extreme Edges, a new brand for “mature” titles. The games include Call of Duty, Deus Ex and Lara Croft, the kind of high-end titles that do well in the United States but haven’t taken off in Japan.
Many other games at Tokyo Game Show, Japan’s biggest videogame expo, are developed here with an eye on the Western market. Most are shooters, a genre that dominates the U.S. charts but is not popular here. It’s all an attempt to reach a broader audience with next-generation games, something that Japan hasn’t been able to do yet.
“The classic, traditional Japanese formula is not a moneymaker anymore unless you have “Monster Hunter,” “Dragon Quest” or “Final Fantasy” in your game title,” says James Mielke, a game producer at Tokyo-based Q Entertainment. “It’s a real risk for a developer to make a game that’s designed specifically for (Japan). That’s not a safe strategy.”
What Japanese Gamers Want

Japanese gamers have very specific tastes, often embracing the polar opposite of what sells in the rest of the world. Open-world games like FalloutGrand Theft Auto emphasize the player’s freedom to do whatever he wants, which doesn’t fly in Japan. and
“They want a guided experience,” says Campbell. “They want their hands held. They want the familiar. They don’t want new. When you go against that, they get angry.”
Some companies attempting to sell Western games in Japan are attempting to turn that negative into a positive. Bethesda’s advertising campaign for Fallout: New Vegas features a group of Japanese youths protesting the linear, on-rails nature of traditional Japanese role-playing games.
But sales numbers don’t lie. Of the top 100 games sold in Japan in 2009, you have to go all the way down to No. 77 to find the one title not made in Japan — Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2.
This does seem to be changing somewhat: On the top 100 list for the first half of 2010, Call of DutyBattlefield and Sony’s MAG and God of War. is joined by Electronic Arts’
But these are minor victories at best. The portable PSP and Nintendo DS dominate the market with games like Monster Hunter and Dragon QuestFinal Fantasy XIII. while high-definition, next-generation gaming struggles to get a foothold in Japan. Sony has sold just more than 5 million PlayStation 3s here, and Microsoft barely limped past the 1 million mark with Xbox 360. The only next-gen game that sold more than 1 million units in 2009 was
A display for Halo: Reach goes all but unnoticed in the Sofmap electronics store in Akihabara.
Photo: Chris Kohler/Wired.com

The lack of success so far doesn’t mean Japanese companies are going to quit trying to woo gamers to Western-style games.
Stop into the PlayStation 3 section of any electronics store in Tokyo and you’ll likely find that most of the titles on display are either from outside Japan or designed to appeal to Western tastes.
In the next month, two Japanese publishers are gearing up to launch third-person shooters that crib from Epic Games’ Gears of War. Sega’s upcoming sci-fi shooter Vanquish adds a decidedly Japanese over-the-top flair: The main character in his superhuman robot suit can slide around the battlefield like a base runner coming in to home plate.
But one critic I talked to who had played Tecmo Koei’s forthcoming third-person shooter Quantum Theory said it was almost indistinguishable from Gears. The thrust of the criticism around the game thus far seems to be that it apes the outward form of the popular shooter, but not its intrinsic appeal.
Part of the problem seems to be a total lack of exposure among Japanese gamers — and, perhaps more importantly, among Japanese game developers — when it comes to high-end videogames like Halo and Grand Theft Auto, with their lush graphics and open worlds.
“I’ve come across Japanese development companies as recently as two years ago where the engineers, the designers of the game, owned a PS2, a PSP, a Wii and a DS,” says Campbell. “I’ve sat people down with a next-gen game, and they thought they were watching a cut scene until I gave them a controller. I was like, ‘No, this is what people in the West play.’”
Such experiences are not unusual in a country where next-gen consoles have so far failed to catch on the way they have in the West.
“The other day,” says Q Entertainment’s Mielke, “I was having lunch with a friend and I said, ‘Have you ever played StarCraft?’ And he said, ‘What’s StarCraft?’ Sometimes it’s just really shocking that their gaming vocabulary isn’t as extensive as it could be. I think Japanese game developers need to start playing other people’s games to open their minds, just like a writer might want to read classic literature to be inspired.”


Read More http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2010/09/western-games-japan#ixzz11nm1eY4n


I didn't grow up in the west, and I'm not Japanese. However, I did grow up playing both Japanese and Western games (Japanese mostly). And as I matured I found myself playing more and more western games. If I look back on the games I've played this year (or still playing) there are only 2 out of 10 games that are Japanese. It mainly has something to do with franchise fatigue, lack of innovation, excessive linearity and repetitive and cliche themes in Japanese games, much like anime.
I like new and creative, but I can appreciate classic if the delivery was nice enough. I'd always pick decision making and free over linear and guided.

Western games aren't faultless though. I'm not so keen on shooters, particularly the first person variety, or what are referred to as "realistic" shooters. They all look the same to me, and the narrative is lackluster at best. Half Life and Borderlands are good examples of how to make FPSs. CoD and Bad Company just look the same to me.

This article mentions what the majority of the Japanese audience favors and how it affects reception of foreign games. While Japanese publishers hope to open up new doors in gaming for their market and hopefully inspire their developers creatively. VanQuish is certainly a good example (try the demo). But it looks like it'll be a slow ascension due to current consumer feedback.

Perhaps Japanese developers outsourcing their IPs to Western developers (eg, Castlevania Lords of Shadow, DmC, Silent Hill 8) is a way of getting their Japanese consumer to purchase these recognizable names in hope of softening them up to foreign games? Is that their way of convincing that foreign games aren't low quality?



​

 

[Linnaete]

"Yo-ge, kuso-ge". lol. If only they actually know what they're talking about considering the Japanese gaming industry is practically nearing a terminal phase compared to decades ago, with the west having overtaken them.

Japan's always loved having a strong narrative in their media, from manga to games. Not all the time of course, but this has usually been the case I've noticed that with their strong infatuation towards mainly the Japanese role-playing games. The Japanese by the looks of things have always been more story-conscious than the west and they do actually like the very structured, though clichéd form of storytelling present in most JRPGs. Take that narrative away from them by giving them games like Call of Duty and Battlefield and what are they left with? Usually with little idea of why they are shooting people. What is the motivation behind it? Why should the player care about shooting these people? It's a common mindset in Japanese gamers which attributes to the dominance of the JRPG genre.

This idea is probably a bit of a stretch, but seeing as Japan has never really had much of an enthusiastic culture when it comes to military pride and triumph as the west has, it probably helps explain why many of them shy away from the FPSs, especially Call of Duty. I agree with the part about a lack of exposure. They don't see enough of it, so these kind of western games are completely different to them and outside of their comfort zone, and they retreat back into what they are familiar with, thus maintaining this very conservative nature. What the media there commonly show would be homemade titles. I just wonder how hard they are trying though to advertise western games on say, TV and in cinemas. Of course, they shouldn't force western games to be mainstream though, but it would be nice to see Japan appreciate both western and eastern games as we do.

 

[Dishy]

Of course, they shouldn't force western games to be mainstream though, but it would be nice to see Japan appreciate both western and eastern games as we do.

I agree with the vast majority of what you've just said, but this comment didn't sit right with me.
Sure, Japanese gamers don't appreciate Western games (generally).
But saying that Western gamers appreciate both Western and Eastern games is something of a misnomer to me, because in my opinion, we are a minority.
Western gamers DON'T appreciate both kinds of games - the vast majority of people's entire gaming experiences consist of games like Halo, Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, and the like. I've personally found that, in general, Western gamers ignore Japanese games. I knew like 10 people in my school that played JRPGs when I was in high school, with probably no more than another 10 or 20 people in the school that I didn't know.

If Western gamers appreciated both equally, then logically, the market in the west would be equal. Instead, when I see what games are selling, I see a list of FPS and sandbox games. The only JRPG that sells well in the West is Final Fantasy, and while FF is certainly THE flagship JRPG outside of Japan, it is by no means the only good franchise out there. Indeed, as well being the only JRPG series still doing well, it seems it's actually began to be INFLUENCED by the Western market, which is why so many people who are hardcore JRPG gamers hate it.
As an example, when I looked at the current top 10 games as indicated by GameSpot users a little while back, I saw FFXIII somewhere near the bottom-middle, with the other games being the likes of Madden, StarCraft, Call of Duty, Halo, Red Dead Redemption, Fallout, etc.

The simple truth is that Western gamers in general are as unappreciative of Japanese games and Japanese gamers are of Western games.
The sad truth is that because the Western market is bigger, the Japanese market suffers. The West are just as guilty of being resistant to foreign games, IMO. Which makes me sad, because I just don't find the majority of Western games interesting or appealing.

Also, I'm not at all impressed by whoever thought it was a good idea to outsource DMC. Dante has white hair and doesn't like a douche, and it should stay that way.


Sorry if I repeated myself a bit too much here or was unclear.

 

[Tipsynaruto]

i agree with Dishy. IMHO, if the action isnt fast paced enough, a fair few western gamers give up. A lot of western gamers seem to not have the patience to sit through long drawn jrpgs. Now sure, this is a generalisation and there are many western gamers that enjoy and play jrpg to its fullest, but the main fundamental difference is that japan's gaming community, whether it be casual or hardcore, treat games like manga and a story (like what fleur said... thiink?) while the western gamers want instant entertainment. Screw the story. That leads to why people think Japanese gamers are unappreciative of western games. its just the difference in gaming culture.

Plus, im sure World at War didnt help either.

That being said, both sides are unappreciative of the other, but i think its not only because they purely think its substandard, but just what they are looking for in a game is different.

 

[Ohri-Jin]

I also agree with Dishy
Like these FPS's arent repetitive.. and imo the imagination of the Japanese folks is outstanding, I like ( I actually LOVE) their vision and their fantasy..

They have this unique creativity that appeals to me personally

Anime, JRPG's, manga, also some of them asian's do better Horror flicks then some Americans xD, and they even ruin their asian delights when they're remaking it.

DBZ Revo, The Ring, etc...plenty examples there..

Yes many cliché's but thats with everything nowadays,,its hard to make something original these days..

But TBH I never get old of JRPG's..I'll always like the cliché's and even anime...but maybe I havent seen that much anime like some dedicated anime watchers in the first place.

and these western influences arent exactly benefiting JGames...
They should IMO just stick to their own formula.

 

[Tipsynaruto]

Now thats a bit harsh XD

if you want a game with an exceedingly great story to it (but i do admit, quality has been a bit low nowadays), give it to the japanese.

Those shooters and stuff, i do say westerners do make em good (tho those too, are a bit low on quality too).

Cliches are great when done right and the japanese seem quite capable in doing so.

One of my favourite cliche games ive played recently was Tales of Vesperia. They did divert from the main hero falls in love with the main heroine, which was a big winner for me.

(the company that made or published it did piss me off by releasing a ps3 version with crap loads of add on. IMO, that is a poor practice, even if you want to make money. It is the only thing that pisses me off about jap dev that they favour the ps3 too much and pull shit like this)

 

[Sir Kenneth]

I agree with the vast majority of what you've just said, but this comment didn't sit right with me.
Sure, Japanese gamers don't appreciate Western games (generally).
But saying that Western gamers appreciate both Western and Eastern games is something of a misnomer to me, because in my opinion, we are a minority.
Western gamers DON'T appreciate both kinds of games - the vast majority of people's entire gaming experiences consist of games like Halo, Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, and the like. I've personally found that, in general, Western gamers ignore Japanese games. I knew like 10 people in my school that played JRPGs when I was in high school, with probably no more than another 10 or 20 people in the school that I didn't know.

If Western gamers appreciated both equally, then logically, the market in the west would be equal. Instead, when I see what games are selling, I see a list of FPS and sandbox games. The only JRPG that sells well in the West is Final Fantasy, and while FF is certainly THE flagship JRPG outside of Japan, it is by no means the only good franchise out there. Indeed, as well being the only JRPG series still doing well, it seems it's actually began to be INFLUENCED by the Western market, which is why so many people who are hardcore JRPG gamers hate it.
As an example, when I looked at the current top 10 games as indicated by GameSpot users a little while back, I saw FFXIII somewhere near the bottom-middle, with the other games being the likes of Madden, StarCraft, Call of Duty, Halo, Red Dead Redemption, Fallout, etc.

The simple truth is that Western gamers in general are as unappreciative of Japanese games and Japanese gamers are of Western games.
The sad truth is that because the Western market is bigger, the Japanese market suffers. The West are just as guilty of being resistant to foreign games, IMO. Which makes me sad, because I just don't find the majority of Western games interesting or appealing.

Also, I'm not at all impressed by whoever thought it was a good idea to outsource DMC. Dante has white hair and doesn't like a douche, and it should stay that way.


Sorry if I repeated myself a bit too much here or was unclear.

I think the mistake you make is that you go right from saying that Japanese games don't perform well in the west, then you go onto talking about JRPGs specifically and use that to confirm that Japanese games in general don't do well in the west. While it may be true that western gamers don't go apeshit every time Square spits out another Dragon Quest spin-off/remake on the DS, it doesn't mean that western gamers are unappreciative of Japanese games in general.

Here's a list of Japanese games/game franchises that have done very well for themselves in the west in recent years: Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Pokemon, Tekken, Streetfighter, Mario, Zelda, Metal Gear Solid, Resident Evil, UFC Undisputed, WWE Smackdown vs. Raw, and Gran Turismo.

I'm not saying that the market in the west is split down 50/50 equally between Japanese and western developers, far from it, but do you think you could find 10 western game franchises that have done as well in Japan as the above mentioned have in the west?

 

[Gingerbread Lesbian]

But saying that Western gamers appreciate both Western and Eastern games is something of a misnomer to me, because in my opinion, we are a minority.

I disagree. Ken has listed above some of the franchises we've opened ourselves too, then look at other titles like Ico, Shadow of The Colossus, The Last Guardian that we appreciate massively, and although the latter has yet to be released, people are still very impressed by it.

Western gamers DON'T appreciate both kinds of games - the vast majority of people's entire gaming experiences consist of games like Halo, Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, and the like.

Could you not argue the same about the Japanese market? In my opinion the western market is very open to both types, if you go to a local game store there's a huge variety of genres. From what I've seen, the Japanese developers seem VERY slow at developing whereas Western developers can produce AAA titles every 1-2 years. Of course the western market is going to be larger if a) there's more western developers anyway and b) we're quicker at producing.

I've personally found that, in general, Western gamers ignore Japanese games. I knew like 10 people in my school that played JRPGs when I was in high school, with probably no more than another 10 or 20 people in the school that I didn't know.

How long ago was it though? Within the last decade there have been fewer and fewer Japanese titles produced each year with the exception of big franchises such as Mario, Pokemon, Zelda etc (all of which produce universally acclaimed titles all the time) I would say it was the other way around. Even Wada said (one of his better comments) that some Japanese retailers simply refuse to stock Western titles, and when they do, they don't promote them.

If Western gamers appreciated both equally, then logically, the market in the west would be equal.

No, it wouldn't. The western market is a hell of a lot bigger, hence it's a lot harder to cater for. It's not about "appreciating", it's about quality. There are still a few Japanese titles breaking through, Demon Souls for example, but JRPGs are becoming tiresome, it's the same old battle systems and the same old storylines that don't cut it anymore. There's very little innovation coming from JRPGs anymore, and when someone does try to change something, they neglect all the basics and try to change too much, too soon.

Instead, when I see what games are selling, I see a list of FPS and sandbox games. The only JRPG that sells well in the West is Final Fantasy, and while FF is certainly THE flagship JRPG outside of Japan, it is by no means the only good franchise out there. Indeed, as well being the only JRPG series still doing well, it seems it's actually began to be INFLUENCED by the Western market, which is why so many people who are hardcore JRPG gamers hate it.

"Hardcore" JRPGers are a minority anyway, and in my eyes, always have been. Final Fantasy being westernised isn't the fault of the western market, and this is what pisses me off about Wada. It's "westernise this" and "westernise that", Final Fantasy titles have ALWAYS sold well regardless, there's no need to start westernising it.

As an example, when I looked at the current top 10 games as indicated by GameSpot users a little while back, I saw FFXIII somewhere near the bottom-middle, with the other games being the likes of Madden, StarCraft, Call of Duty, Halo, Red Dead Redemption, Fallout, etc.

They're all better than Final Fantasy XIII, that's why, even the Japanese market hated it. Given I've never played Madden I can imagine it's the equivalent to FIFA over here. If you really want to know the difference between all those titles (bar Fallout?), they're all multiplayer, something Japan seems to have avoided, yet nowadays it's arguably the most pivotal part of the market.

The simple truth is that Western gamers in general are as unappreciative of Japanese games and Japanese gamers are of Western games.
The sad truth is that because the Western market is bigger, the Japanese market suffers. The West are just as guilty of being resistant to foreign games, IMO. Which makes me sad, because I just don't find the majority of Western games interesting or appealing.

I disagree, because we do appreciate the Japanese market, but whereas the the Western market has moved on and modernised, the Japanese market has done very little. Anything innovating is greatly received over here, whether it be from western developers (ie, Heavy Rain, LittleBigPlanet etc) or Japanese developers (ie, The Last Guardian). It's not our fault that the Japanese market is expanding very slowly, if at all.

Screw the story.

That's a bit unfair. Uncharted, Uncharted 2, Dragon Age, Assassin's Creed I and II, Bioshock (not played 2), Heavy Rain, Ratchet and Clank (series), Red Dead Redemption etc all have excellent storylines imo, but they excel in other areas as well. They've all been EXCELLENTLY received too and praised for their storylines and innovation. Final Fantasy XIII for example, was just a generic storyline of someone trying to take over or destroy the world and the heroes saving the day. It's boring and uninspiring. Classic titles such as Chrono Trigger, Pre-PS2 FF titles and the likes can get away with it because they're the heart of JRPGs.

That being said, both sides are unappreciative of the other, but i think its not only because they purely think its substandard, but just what they are looking for in a game is different.

You've pretty much nailed it here.

But TBH I never get old of JRPG's..I'll always like the cliché's and even anime...but maybe I havent seen that much anime like some dedicated anime watchers in the first place..

Exactly. OLD.

if you want a game with an exceedingly great story to it (but i do admit, quality has been a bit low nowadays), give it to the japanese.

Those shooters and stuff, i do say westerners do make em good (tho those too, are a bit low on quality too).

It's an opinion so I appreciate it, but the difference is shooters aren't designed for the storyline, it's all multiplayer nowadays, something that the Japanese market doesn't seem overly appreciative of. The difference is, shooters tend to become a little better game on game whereas Japanese titles seem to stay on the same straight line year in year out.

(the company that made or published it did piss me off by releasing a ps3 version with crap loads of add on. IMO, that is a poor practice, even if you want to make money. It is the only thing that pisses me off about jap dev that they favour the ps3 too much and pull shit like this)

To be fair, that's the not the Japanese devs faults, it's the market. Very few devs over there cater for the Xbox 360 market at all because they sell very few consoles in Japan hence the Playstation 3 will always maintain a bias. You could argue a 360 bias in the western market.

 

[Tipsynaruto]

That's a bit unfair. Uncharted, Uncharted 2, Dragon Age, Assassin's Creed I and II, Bioshock (not played 2), Heavy Rain, Ratchet and Clank (series), Red Dead Redemption etc all have excellent storylines imo, but they excel in other areas as well. They've all been EXCELLENTLY received too and praised for their storylines and innovation. Final Fantasy XIII for example, was just a generic storyline of someone trying to take over or destroy the world and the heroes saving the day. It's boring and uninspiring. Classic titles such as Chrono Trigger, Pre-PS2 FF titles and the likes can get away with it because they're the heart of JRPGs.

Alright, maybe i was abit unfair in that call. There are a games with great storys. i retract that. But i still stand by the idea that western games are still more action orientated than story wide. Its not a bad thing. Not everyone can sit through long cutscenes and such.

It's an opinion so I appreciate it, but the difference is shooters aren't designed for the storyline, it's all multiplayer nowadays, something that the Japanese market doesn't seem overly appreciative of. The difference is, shooters tend to become a little better game on game whereas Japanese titles seem to stay on the same straight line year in year out.

Quite true. However, what i actually meant is when they throw EVERYTHING out just for the action. Its more personal taste than anything, but i cannot play something that is absolutely pointless without a hint of decent story to it. COD and the like is alright cuz it does have something of an actual plot, as does halo.

To be fair, that's the not the Japanese devs faults, it's the market. Very few devs over there cater for the Xbox 360 market at all because they sell very few consoles in Japan hence the Playstation 3 will always maintain a bias. You could argue a 360 bias in the western market.

They gave the 360 an unfinished product. That is all i can say. I will admit i am extremely biased in this aspect, but i have my reason. If you had played it, there is a lighthouse that is seemingingly useless with maybe a chest only up top. Inside is a pirate hat and something that HINTS VERY STRONGLY at being the home of Patty, a playable character they introduced into PS3, which so happens to reside in said lighthouse and his a pirate. They had the gall to go and said the excuse that they had no intentions of actually adding her and was only decided later on is complete and utter bullshit.

Now, you made a very valid point at the ps3 having more control over the market. I would not mind so much if the content added was purely added in AFTER the original was made, like Ninja Gaiden Sigma. However what i do mind is that they purposefully left out things that seemed to have been intended in the original game and then release it in the ps3 version. That, is what makes me angry about it.

I have yet to see an xbox 360 game stoop that low in purposefully cutting something out like that. If you do know of one, tell me and ill stand corrected. It may also make me feel less angry about it whenever i play the damn game.

 

[Dishy]

I think the mistake you make is that you go right from saying that Japanese games don't perform well in the west, then you go onto talking about JRPGs specifically and use that to confirm that Japanese games in general don't do well in the west. While it may be true that western gamers don't go apeshit every time Square spits out another Dragon Quest spin-off/remake on the DS, it doesn't mean that western gamers are unappreciative of Japanese games in general.

Here's a list of Japanese games/game franchises that have done very well for themselves in the west in recent years: Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Pokemon, Tekken, Streetfighter, Mario, Zelda, Metal Gear Solid, Resident Evil, UFC Undisputed, WWE Smackdown vs. Raw, and Gran Turismo.

I'm not saying that the market in the west is split down 50/50 equally between Japanese and western developers, far from it, but do you think you could find 10 western game franchises that have done as well in Japan as the above mentioned have in the west?

I'll give you that, I did focus on JRPGs as an example of Japanese gaming in general. However, that's because Japanese games in general have a certain focus on storylines, of which Final Fantasy is the best known example.

As for the list... while they're all certainly Japanese games that have been received well overseas, you're forgetting that the majority of those games appeal to Western tastes.
Wii Sports/Wii Fit - They barely even count as games IMO, but they're intended for the more casual gamer who doesn't play games.
Pokemon - Sure, it's kind of an RPG, but while it does sell well, it's a very niche market. In the west it's generally considered a kids game, from what I've seen. Everyone and anyone my age played pokemon when they were kids, but hardly anybody my age (in relativity) plays it now.
Tekken and Streetfighter - Both fighting games, with minimal storyline, minimal thought process involved, and multiplayer. You can't get much closer to western tastes than this.
Mario - Fun to play, but no storyline to speak of. And Mario was designed to look, act and sound non-Japanese, so...
Zelda - I'll admit, I forgot about this one. Storyline is abundant. However, it's still a relatively niche market. I imagine the amount of people in the west playing FPS outnumber the Zelda players 100:1.
Metal Gear Solid - Another one I forgot about. Plenty of storyline AND third-person shooting/stealth. However, again, I don't hear about many people in the west playing Metal Gear Solid. I don't know why. FPS shooters just seem to overshadow it, as MGS multiplayer options are limited, and everybody knows all western gamers care about these days is multiplayer.
Resident Evil - Sure, it's got a storyline. But let's be honest, who plays Resident Evil because it's got a storyline? People play it because it's a survival horror, which is another market that seems to be doing fairly well for itself, with plenty of OTHER franchises out there, including several western ones.
UFC Undisputed/ WWE - Again, fighting games. I didn't even know these were Japanese games, as the actual UFC and WWE are American as far as I knew, which would explain their popularity in America and the west. Plus, they have even less storyline value than Tekken and Street Fighter.
Gran Turismo - It's a racing game, and there are plenty of Western racing games that are doing well too. So any success is not due to Japanese sensibilities.

I'll concede you that point, I can't think of any at the moment.
However, as I've pointed out, most of those games only do well because they are specifically designed to do well in the West, or are otherwise relatively niche compared to the Western market leaders (FPS).

I disagree. Ken has listed above some of the franchises we've opened ourselves too, then look at other titles like Ico, Shadow of The Colossus, The Last Guardian that we appreciate massively, and although the latter has yet to be released, people are still very impressed by it.

Games like ICO and Shadow of the Colossus, while universally praised and critically acclaimed, still haven't reached the Western masses, IMO. They're very cult status, and if I spoke to every single gamer in the area I live, I bet you most would have never even heard of them. They're too busy on XBox Live playing Halo and COD to play quality games like SotC. Maybe that's not a very good example of the western market, since I live in England and not America, but I've always thought the general attitude of gamers in my area to be indicative of western tastes in general.

Could you not argue the same about the Japanese market? In my opinion the western market is very open to both types, if you go to a local game store there's a huge variety of genres. From what I've seen, the Japanese developers seem VERY slow at developing whereas Western developers can produce AAA titles every 1-2 years. Of course the western market is going to be larger if a) there's more western developers anyway and b) we're quicker at producing.

You could.
And you're right about the huge variety AVAILABLE. But I betcha the sales of all those other games are very low compared to Halo sales, COD sales, even Assassin's Creed or Dead Rising sales. The games are there, but the amount of people buying them is very low compared to other games.
And that depends very much on your definition of a AAA title. I don't consider many well-acclaimed titles to be AAA, because they either focus on multiplayer far too much (I'm a solo player through and through), or they otherwise sacrifice the story in order to focus on other aspects of the game.
I'm by no means slating games that have good gameplay - far from it - but in my opinion it shouldn't be necessary to sacrifice the story in order to achieve that. (That being said, despite the "good" gameplay that has developed in FPS, I still don't find them all that fun to play with a few exceptions, and so they don't fit into my personal category of a "good" game. Nobody will ever agree on this particular point, because we all have different tastes.)

I'll give you that Western developers produce games at a far quicker rate, but really, how many Western games released are simply rehashes of the game in the series that came out the year or two before? I betcha many companies recycle data from previous games, and just make alterations. When you think about how long the recent Final Fantasy games have taken to be developed, you've got to think that EVERYTHING in the game was done from scratch.

How long ago was it though? Within the last decade there have been fewer and fewer Japanese titles produced each year with the exception of big franchises such as Mario, Pokemon, Zelda etc (all of which produce universally acclaimed titles all the time) I would say it was the other way around. Even Wada said (one of his better comments) that some Japanese retailers simply refuse to stock Western titles, and when they do, they don't promote them.

It was mostly in the last decade, yes.
When I was in primary school (ages 4 - 11) the only Japanese game anybody played was Pokemon, and for most people it was a casual fad, not a true interest in the game but in the spin-off media (the anime and the card game, plus the Merlin sticker collection). Nobody even played Mario or Zelda back then. It was mostly Spyro, Crash Bandicoot, the like - all of which were developed by Western companies.

When I was in high school (ages 12 - 16) there was a very small percentage of people who played RPGs. Of those, most had only played one FF game (usually VII), and had little knowledge of any other RPGs. Other Japanese games like MGS were unheard of (I knew two people in the school who played it). Fighting and racing games like Tekken and Gran Turismo were a little more popular, but not big things.
The most popular games (that nearly every guy in school played) were games like Grand Theft Auto, Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty, Medal of Honour, Halo, and the like.
Even Western storyline-orientated games (like Fallout, Bioshock, Oblivion, etc) had very little exposure in my local area, with the possible exception of Fable.

I may be using my local area too much as a template for Western gamers in general, and for that I apologise, because admittedly my local area is full of dumbasses and losers who are just as likely to go out and get pissed on the streets as they are to play COD or Halo. But when you've spent your whole life only being able to connect with people who share your interests over the Internet, and have met like no more than about 6 or 7 people in your WHOLE life who enjoy playing the same games you do, I guess you get a little jaded in your opinions.

No, it wouldn't. The western market is a hell of a lot bigger, hence it's a lot harder to cater for. It's not about "appreciating", it's about quality. There are still a few Japanese titles breaking through, Demon Souls for example, but JRPGs are becoming tiresome, it's the same old battle systems and the same old storylines that don't cut it anymore. There's very little innovation coming from JRPGs anymore, and when someone does try to change something, they neglect all the basics and try to change too much, too soon.

Maybe I shouldn't try to comment objectively on RPGs anymore, because admittedly, I'm an RPG freak.
I should stop bitching and just go live in Japan or something.

 

[Sir Kenneth]

I'll give you that, I did focus on JRPGs as an example of Japanese gaming in general. However, that's because Japanese games in general have a certain focus on storylines, of which Final Fantasy is the best known example.

As for the list... while they're all certainly Japanese games that have been received well overseas, you're forgetting that the majority of those games appeal to Western tastes.
Wii Sports/Wii Fit - They barely even count as games IMO, but they're intended for the more casual gamer who doesn't play games.
Pokemon - Sure, it's kind of an RPG, but while it does sell well, it's a very niche market. In the west it's generally considered a kids game, from what I've seen. Everyone and anyone my age played pokemon when they were kids, but hardly anybody my age (in relativity) plays it now.
Tekken and Streetfighter - Both fighting games, with minimal storyline, minimal thought process involved, and multiplayer. You can't get much closer to western tastes than this.
Mario - Fun to play, but no storyline to speak of. And Mario was designed to look, act and sound non-Japanese, so...
Zelda - I'll admit, I forgot about this one. Storyline is abundant. However, it's still a relatively niche market. I imagine the amount of people in the west playing FPS outnumber the Zelda players 100:1.
Metal Gear Solid - Another one I forgot about. Plenty of storyline AND third-person shooting/stealth. However, again, I don't hear about many people in the west playing Metal Gear Solid. I don't know why. FPS shooters just seem to overshadow it, as MGS multiplayer options are limited, and everybody knows all western gamers care about these days is multiplayer.
Resident Evil - Sure, it's got a storyline. But let's be honest, who plays Resident Evil because it's got a storyline? People play it because it's a survival horror, which is another market that seems to be doing fairly well for itself, with plenty of OTHER franchises out there, including several western ones.
UFC Undisputed/ WWE - Again, fighting games. I didn't even know these were Japanese games, as the actual UFC and WWE are American as far as I knew, which would explain their popularity in America and the west. Plus, they have even less storyline value than Tekken and Street Fighter.
Gran Turismo - It's a racing game, and there are plenty of Western racing games that are doing well too. So any success is not due to Japanese sensibilities.

I'll concede you that point, I can't think of any at the moment.
However, as I've pointed out, most of those games only do well because they are specifically designed to do well in the West, or are otherwise relatively niche compared to the Western market leaders (FPS).

You do have a point with UFC: Undisputed and WWE: RAW VS. SMACKDOWN being designed with a western audience in mind, but it doesn't change the fact that they are still Japanese games performing well in the west.

You are however way off mark when you say that most games on that list were designed specifically to do well in the west. I'm sorry, but that is simply just not true at all. All of the games on that list (save UFC: Undisputed and WWE: RAW VS. SMACKDOWN, I'll grant you that) perform well across all territories. If Mario for example was designed specifically to appeal to western audiences, then how come New Super Mario Bros. Wii has been topping the charts in Japan for several months in a row? Same with pretty much everything else on the list. None of the games were designed specifically with western gamers in mind, they are simply popular franchises which have struck a chord with audiences across many different markets.

Not that it really matters if they WERE designed specifially to appeal to western gamers. The gist of your original post was that western gamers are just as critical of Japanese games as Japanese gamers are of western games. Something which I think we can now agree is simply not true Japanese sensibilities, genre, or storyline doesn't really figure in the picture here. Point is that there's no equivalent to "Yo-ge, kuso-ge" in the west.

 

[Ayen]

I admit I'm probably a tad bias on this but I don't fault Japan at all for not liking First Person Shooters. FPS has to be my least favorite video game genre in the market today and I don't understand why it's doing so well in the US asides from the majority just wanting things that are fast-paced, with heavy action and a ton of explosions. The only FPS I can sit through is Metroid Prime but that's only because Samus Aran is my favorite Nintendo character around. That and they felt more story based than the newer FPS around today.

I can relate to having a "comfort" zone at these type of things. I'm starting to wonder if I'm secretly Japanese or something because I tend to like a lot of things they create over things that are local here. Especially when it comes to RPG and Anime. But at the end of the day I think it mostly depends on genres and personal taste than whether or not the game is Western or Eastern.

 

[Fusionist]

Actually, someone told me how Japan is pretty open minded to Western games, and FPS in general. Call of Duty is doing pretty well over in Japan apparently.

If anything, I find it true the other way around - or at the very least, it's been the most vocally expressed as the other way around.

There's a game I want to grab called Sengoku Basara: Samurai Heroes that was released just recently outside Japan. In Japan it's known as Sengoku Basara 3, but since this is practically the first game of the series being brought over here, they changed the name to something more stand-alone-ish.

It's also a hack n' slash game.

Reviews popped up and despite everything I knew and was looking forward to, it's been scoring poorly. However the main issue being pointed out aren't on parts of the the game itself, but the genre of hack n' slash in general. One review quite vehemently said "the genre needs to die" for it's repetitive gameplay.

So I dunno...hack n' slash is pretty repetitive, but how do FPS games vary all that much? You're still stealth, point and shoot is most games. And before any fans tell me how there are significant differences, I can tell you there are differences between hack n' slash games too.

One thing about FPS someone suggested to me was that because the context usually revolved around American history, it gives a better connection to American gamers. The a fore mentioned Sengoku Basara game I want to get has references to, you guessed it, Japanese history, and may be the reason why it's very well received over there but not here.

I kind of just roll my eyes at these over generalized statements made my people. And I lol when it's more influencial people like gamind big-wigs. There may be numbers to back it up, but there's still people who don't fit into these over generalized molds.

 

[B-l-ackstage]

over all story of Japan they were never receptive to foreign relation w/ outsiders. It's not a bad think actually. However when it comes to trends and inspiration they usually rely on occidental countries (mostly US), but yet this things are always made in japan. Same with games: just look at FFXIII trying to breathe occidental trends, and yet never completely leaving its traditions.