I was on another forum and they were discussing this. I thought it was impossible, but they brought up some interesting theories that really got me. Does anyone here think that they are the same being, somehow? 
Is Rinoa Ultimecia?
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this is a new way to put things lool
i think not lool
i think not lool
Word of God says no Ike.
No matter what others tell you, WoG said no.
No matter what others tell you, WoG said no.
Can you post the theory? I personally don't think Rinoa could be that mean. I mean why was Ultimecia even going back in time anyways? What was the point of all her world dominatioon time compression? I think People are just reading way too into that theory. Ultimecia is just a bad guy. If the makers wanted to hint that Rinoa was her then they would have mentioned it at some point or it would be obvious.
These games were meant to be simple, a fantasy, that's it. Too much interpretation would ruin the game and bring about crazy theoriessuch as that. Rinoa is Definetly not Ultimecia... Even if old Ulti had Squall's necklace dog thing named after her GF I doubt she's Rinoa.
These games were meant to be simple, a fantasy, that's it. Too much interpretation would ruin the game and bring about crazy theoriessuch as that. Rinoa is Definetly not Ultimecia... Even if old Ulti had Squall's necklace dog thing named after her GF I doubt she's Rinoa.
VinnieJones
綺羅星☆
It's a mystery, but one that can make sense.
Ultimecia junctions a GF called Griever, a name given BY Squall for the beast on his ring, meaning Squall and Rinoa are the only ones that know that name.
Rinoa, being a sorceress, probably has some power to live for longer than other humans. and probably found a GF and named it Griever, as a reminder of Squall who she outlived. but by junctioning GF's you lose your memory, so she lost memory of Squall.
something like that. Otherwise how Ultimecia has a GF that has exactly the same name as Squall's ring is just unknown, given that you can change the name of it in the game.
Ultimecia junctions a GF called Griever, a name given BY Squall for the beast on his ring, meaning Squall and Rinoa are the only ones that know that name.
Rinoa, being a sorceress, probably has some power to live for longer than other humans. and probably found a GF and named it Griever, as a reminder of Squall who she outlived. but by junctioning GF's you lose your memory, so she lost memory of Squall.
something like that. Otherwise how Ultimecia has a GF that has exactly the same name as Squall's ring is just unknown, given that you can change the name of it in the game.
I'm not sure it's possible. The fact that Ultimecia is caught in that endless time loop for one thing, stops the possibility of the two being one, in my opinion.
For another thing, Rinoa and Ultimecia interact and fight many times over the course of the game. One of the most noteable occasions is when she has Adel junction Rinoa to herself, which has a high possibility of killing her, if not the sole intention of killing her. Ultimecia killing a past or even an alternative self could have disastrous consequences for her. Maybe even undo her altogether. Her motive throughout the game is to rule, not to die. Why would she do this if she was killing herself?
For another thing, Rinoa and Ultimecia interact and fight many times over the course of the game. One of the most noteable occasions is when she has Adel junction Rinoa to herself, which has a high possibility of killing her, if not the sole intention of killing her. Ultimecia killing a past or even an alternative self could have disastrous consequences for her. Maybe even undo her altogether. Her motive throughout the game is to rule, not to die. Why would she do this if she was killing herself?
Um it's not a fact that those two are the only ones who know that name. I heard a rumor that Squall probably named his ring after a GF...Maybe it was his first ever GF who knows
Yeah, this is the idea that the guy had
Æon Flux
I dont discriminate I hate everyone equally
Hmmm I doubt it Ultimesia is from generations in advance of Rinoa's time. Even while sorceress may live longer,this is never stated though,but I doubt it they are basicaly average humans with an afinity for magic its stated anyone with this afinity could be a sorceress if female,Her body simply couldnt be Rinoa's based on average human lifespan.
Then even if it was her body she would already have to be at deaths door befor the party apears to beat her based on the fact a sorceress cant die untill they pass their powers on to another I would assume she would be living in pain and agony till then or incredibly weak ...since thats how the end was when she passed her powers to Edea....
I dont see the connection.
Then even if it was her body she would already have to be at deaths door befor the party apears to beat her based on the fact a sorceress cant die untill they pass their powers on to another I would assume she would be living in pain and agony till then or incredibly weak ...since thats how the end was when she passed her powers to Edea....
I dont see the connection.
VinnieJones
綺羅星☆
there are more theories other than the Griever one, though:
her 'servants' included Omega Weapon and Tiamat; both of whom resembled Ultima Weapon and Bahamut respectively. Squall and co. are the ones that discovered them both in the abandoned lab, so how Ultimecia managed to create them to the exact same look is unknown... unless she had seen them before.
her 'servants' included Omega Weapon and Tiamat; both of whom resembled Ultima Weapon and Bahamut respectively. Squall and co. are the ones that discovered them both in the abandoned lab, so how Ultimecia managed to create them to the exact same look is unknown... unless she had seen them before.
VinnieJones
綺羅星☆
GF's erase memory? that's the only possibility really :/
Yes but tell me where the hell She got that Accent?!?!? Rinoa doesn't have an accent like Ulti. Therefore it's not her
The accent could have come from a corruption of her memory after her descent into this way of thinking (that she wanted to compress time into a single moment that she could rule)
No If you lose your memory it doesn't change your speech. Again reading way too into things here. There is nobody in the WORLD that speaks like that so she couldn't have picked it up from anywhere.
VinnieJones
綺羅星☆
well, I don't really know or care despite all the points I've up.
I can understand how one person can change to be that evil though. Women with their constant moodswings and such. If period pain make them that pissed then imagine how they'll be being all alone in a dark castle.
I can understand how one person can change to be that evil though. Women with their constant moodswings and such. If period pain make them that pissed then imagine how they'll be being all alone in a dark castle.
Ultimecia uses Guardian Forces twice during the entire game. When she uses Griever and Tiamat. She is a powerful mental manipulator as well as a powerful sorceress. I doubt her memory would have gone as easily as others'. Particularly when she only uses two in the game. If she had more, surely she would have used them?
Alright then looks like I'll have to post up some points of my own thanks to Wiki!
Here's the cruddy evidence:
1. Rinoa is immortal. This is false. It is stated in the FFVIII Ultimania Guide published by Square that sorceresses have normal lifespans, Adel wouldn't need a successor if sorceresses are immortal (Ellone is kidnapped because of this in the game).
2. Rinoa's wings going from angel white (there's a lot of emphasis on this in the game) to black. There's no evidence of her being "an evil sorceress" in the game, if you watch the opening video, the wings change as Squall gets injured during the duel. It may be a warning of the fated sorceress fights (Edea and Ultimecia), (Rinoa, if you notice is worried about her powers until Edea tells her about having a knight, and everything changes, she's calmer).
3.Rinoa's words with Squall about stopping time on the Ragnarok somehow supports this theory, she didn't want to leave Squall and be stuck in space(She even goes with the Esthar officials to do just that to protect people in case she gets possessed, doesn't sound like an evil sorceress does it?).
4. Rinoa forgets Squall (after becoming Ultimecia because of continued GF use) and tries to kill Squall and of course as she's being defeated give him the lecture about time (Rinoa didn't know him in childhood nor does she hate SeeD's (She's in love with the Commander of SeeD, Squall, after all.)
5. The next assumption is that Ultimecia wants to get Squall back through Time Compression (if he's dead from her acts how can she get him back?). Also Ultimecia doesn't have a knight which is why she is assumed to be crazy (Rinoa does have one and so is sane), more importantly Ultimecia is called "she" by Rinoa, and has "hate in her heart" not suiting to Rinoa's free spirit (she doesn't want to alienate people), Ultimecia also tries to kill Rinoa and Squall multiple times (no evidence is given to say Rinoa would have continued to use GF's and forgotten her past and Squall).
6. Ultimecia's accent is not present in Rinoa's speech, she spits out words with C's perfectly so where would she have acquired it?. As for the assumption that Ultimecia's castle is in Edea's house (it floats or else why would it have chains keeping it down?) and it matches the opening words of the game of the protagonists being Fated Children. Edea's House is not enterable.
7. The appearance assumption is also wrong (all FF8 women's faces look alike) and what I find most interesting is that Ultimecia has gray hair. The Griever necklace assumption is also shot down because Rinoa doesn't know what is on his ring, and if you scan Griever it says "In Squall's mind, the strongest GF."
8.Two more pieces of evidence are also important, the first is Ultimecia can't be Rinoa or else they can't fight each other in her castle, Ultimecia does't recognize Squall at all (Rinoa would since use of GF's are debatable. In fact Rinoa doesn't seem to be affected by memory loss due to GF use she remembered the Deling City incident and Squall doesn't (In the flower field scene) and Rinoa is possessed by Ultimecia three times which would explain Squall's image in Time Compression (Remember past, present and future are all mixed up) and Squall did see Rinoa's possession by Ultimecia through Ellone on Lunar Base and it could be it as simple as he remembering that along with everything at once (Time Compression is sometimes just unexplainable).
9.The second piece of very important evidence is that FF8 is a love story (like fairy tales they have happy endings and Rinoa being evil and crazy beings her out of character context.)
10. If anyone reads the Flare Gamer it says that Normura likes Rinoa alot (why have her be the antagonist? Is it too show his liking for the character to have Rinoa supposely become Ultimecia?)
11. Rinoa's alive after Time Compression and the world is safe and Ultimecia is dead after giving her powers to Edea. If Square wanted to make a link between the characters why not have Ultimecia give her powers to Rinoa? (If I might add, not all sorceresses give up there powers in fact all of them except Adel, Ultimecia and Edea (Rinoa is excluded) die without giving up their powers and Rinoa received Edea's powers after Ultimecia gave Rinoa the sorceress embodiment power but Edea has her powers until she goes to the Lunatic Pandora after catching it she gets thrown out and stops being a sorceress and Rinoa receives Edea's sorcery and becomes a sorceress).
12. Ultimecia tried to kill Rinoa. If Rinoa is indeed Ultimecia, killing herself in the present prevents her from becoming Ultimecia in the future.
13. Lastly, Rinoa can't be Ultimecia for all these reasons and this theory is false. Ultimecia is just a sorceress from the future who is not loved and so created her end herself. Saying that Rinoa is Ultimecia is like saying since no one knows where Necron came from, then I guess he must be Zidane right?
Is that enough? The links here if ya want more
Anyway I think I 've rested my case for now...
Here's the cruddy evidence:
1. Rinoa is immortal. This is false. It is stated in the FFVIII Ultimania Guide published by Square that sorceresses have normal lifespans, Adel wouldn't need a successor if sorceresses are immortal (Ellone is kidnapped because of this in the game).
2. Rinoa's wings going from angel white (there's a lot of emphasis on this in the game) to black. There's no evidence of her being "an evil sorceress" in the game, if you watch the opening video, the wings change as Squall gets injured during the duel. It may be a warning of the fated sorceress fights (Edea and Ultimecia), (Rinoa, if you notice is worried about her powers until Edea tells her about having a knight, and everything changes, she's calmer).
3.Rinoa's words with Squall about stopping time on the Ragnarok somehow supports this theory, she didn't want to leave Squall and be stuck in space(She even goes with the Esthar officials to do just that to protect people in case she gets possessed, doesn't sound like an evil sorceress does it?).
4. Rinoa forgets Squall (after becoming Ultimecia because of continued GF use) and tries to kill Squall and of course as she's being defeated give him the lecture about time (Rinoa didn't know him in childhood nor does she hate SeeD's (She's in love with the Commander of SeeD, Squall, after all.)
5. The next assumption is that Ultimecia wants to get Squall back through Time Compression (if he's dead from her acts how can she get him back?). Also Ultimecia doesn't have a knight which is why she is assumed to be crazy (Rinoa does have one and so is sane), more importantly Ultimecia is called "she" by Rinoa, and has "hate in her heart" not suiting to Rinoa's free spirit (she doesn't want to alienate people), Ultimecia also tries to kill Rinoa and Squall multiple times (no evidence is given to say Rinoa would have continued to use GF's and forgotten her past and Squall).
6. Ultimecia's accent is not present in Rinoa's speech, she spits out words with C's perfectly so where would she have acquired it?. As for the assumption that Ultimecia's castle is in Edea's house (it floats or else why would it have chains keeping it down?) and it matches the opening words of the game of the protagonists being Fated Children. Edea's House is not enterable.
7. The appearance assumption is also wrong (all FF8 women's faces look alike) and what I find most interesting is that Ultimecia has gray hair. The Griever necklace assumption is also shot down because Rinoa doesn't know what is on his ring, and if you scan Griever it says "In Squall's mind, the strongest GF."
8.Two more pieces of evidence are also important, the first is Ultimecia can't be Rinoa or else they can't fight each other in her castle, Ultimecia does't recognize Squall at all (Rinoa would since use of GF's are debatable. In fact Rinoa doesn't seem to be affected by memory loss due to GF use she remembered the Deling City incident and Squall doesn't (In the flower field scene) and Rinoa is possessed by Ultimecia three times which would explain Squall's image in Time Compression (Remember past, present and future are all mixed up) and Squall did see Rinoa's possession by Ultimecia through Ellone on Lunar Base and it could be it as simple as he remembering that along with everything at once (Time Compression is sometimes just unexplainable).
9.The second piece of very important evidence is that FF8 is a love story (like fairy tales they have happy endings and Rinoa being evil and crazy beings her out of character context.)
10. If anyone reads the Flare Gamer it says that Normura likes Rinoa alot (why have her be the antagonist? Is it too show his liking for the character to have Rinoa supposely become Ultimecia?)
11. Rinoa's alive after Time Compression and the world is safe and Ultimecia is dead after giving her powers to Edea. If Square wanted to make a link between the characters why not have Ultimecia give her powers to Rinoa? (If I might add, not all sorceresses give up there powers in fact all of them except Adel, Ultimecia and Edea (Rinoa is excluded) die without giving up their powers and Rinoa received Edea's powers after Ultimecia gave Rinoa the sorceress embodiment power but Edea has her powers until she goes to the Lunatic Pandora after catching it she gets thrown out and stops being a sorceress and Rinoa receives Edea's sorcery and becomes a sorceress).
12. Ultimecia tried to kill Rinoa. If Rinoa is indeed Ultimecia, killing herself in the present prevents her from becoming Ultimecia in the future.
13. Lastly, Rinoa can't be Ultimecia for all these reasons and this theory is false. Ultimecia is just a sorceress from the future who is not loved and so created her end herself. Saying that Rinoa is Ultimecia is like saying since no one knows where Necron came from, then I guess he must be Zidane right?
Is that enough? The links here if ya want more
Anyway I think I 've rested my case for now...
Yeah, with Griever, she could have just somehow extracted his memories mid-battle and found Griever's image in Squall's heart and created him to battle Squall and Co. But that doesn't explain how she was ready to fuse with him so quickly
Æon Flux
I dont discriminate I hate everyone equally
She did it to herself...when the party beats her at time compression it caused people to fear sorceress power...thusly in her time people caused her much strife and persicution based on her being a sorceress so she lived in ...fear I guess of fearing her death by the White Seed's simply because of a'Monster" thet would try and destroy the world,wich was a sorceress...herself