I suppose congradulations should be in order for the final fantasy fanbase.

[Masakan]

Before we begin let's get this out of the way. Name's Masakan, first time poster, blah blah blah, how ya doing? OK.

Now you guys in my eyes, have succeeded in something that I thought was impossible. You have surpassed the sonic fan-base as being the most unreasonably demanding, overly picky, Nostalgia Driven Fan-base in the world.

That's not to say that every final fantasy fan thinks that, but it seems when the game in question is not 7,8 or 10 people have nothing but bad things to say. It sounds like I'm listening to grumpy 70 year old men talking about how their time was the golden age and the younger generation is ruining everything. This is only half right. Imo a lot of it has to do with jaded "veterans" who complain about everything that isn't the same as it was in the past, and lazy 12 year olds who bitch and moan about anything they can't just walk up and kill.(just like top Laners in league of legends)

For those of you wondering Yes, I played final fantasy XIII and XIII-2, Yes I feel they are some of the better games in the series, Yes I am more into the action orientated combat. I played 7,8,9 and 10 and the whole time I was thinking "God I rather be playing tales of the abyss" I'm a massive tales fan, Granted I do enjoy turn based combat when done right. Prime examples for me would be the persona series, Skies of Arcadia and Ni no Kuni. But as much grief as people give 12 and 13 I didn't even really like final fantasy UNTIL 12 and this is because they felt more cinematic they tried to go their own way. with the exception of 6 None of the previous FF titles felt like I wasn't playing a less enjoyable tales title.

Look, I understand people have likes and dislikes and even I can admit both of them have their faults, but I still liked both of them having said that the reason, why I'm so annoyed and need to get this off my chest, is because of 15. I will explain why.


I saw the FF 15 trailer and I loved how fast paced it was and knew right away i wanted it (followed by KH3 which almost made me faint). Then(being the advocate for more action based RPG's that I am) I saw comments that almost made me facepalm. People were actually complaining about FF 15 for a lot of things but one thing stood out in particular. Of all the things they complained about they were bitching that (previously verses 13 now 15) the combat system isn't turn based? Of all the things your gonna complain about that's whats going to get under your skin?! Apparently the argument was that since it's a main series title, it should be turn-based and that to me was complete biased ignorance. I can't put it any nicer than that.

What's wrong with them? Are they really so blinded by nostalgia that they will complain about something like this?

Do any of YOU think that verses 13 shouldn't be renamed to 15? I mean, this is almost as bad as the whole green eyes thing from the sonic fanbase.

I pretty much ignored all the criticism for 13 and 13-2 because a lot of things in both those games were directed to people who wouldn't be interested in FF otherwise (myself included) and I understood older gamers probably wouldn't like it very much

And maybe I'm just an ignorant newfag, But I fail to see how anyone can prefer the arbitrary tedium of previous final fantasy games, where you can just grind for days and just roflstomp everything in sight(with the exception of ozma from FF9, that jerk was just unfair) To the fast paced "Live in the Moment" immersion that Real-time combat can provide where the slightest mistake can mean instant death.

I just don't get it.

Anyway sorry to have a rant as my first post, But I needed to get this out of my mind or I'm gonna be dwelling on it all week.

 

[iSmiff]

Now you guys in my eyes, have succeeded in something that I thought was impossible. You have surpassed the sonic fan-base as being the most unreasonably demanding, overly picky, Nostalgia Driven Fan-base in the world.

I hope you haven't registered just to have a go at us
But anyway; Firstly, Welcome! I disagree with the statement that we are overly demanding. Is it too much to ask that the developers actually listen to the people who buy their game? Whatever market research Squeenix do seems to be done poorly. I don't have problems with the franchise evolving but XIII just WASN'T a FF in my eyes. The story was a heap of shite, the battle system was atrocious. That put me off far before I got to become annoyed at the characters (which apparently alot of people did get pissed off with).

You say you disliked the more classic turn based combat but I ask; what's the problem with allowing people actual control over their characters in battle? Sure, it may not be as 'action packed and fluid' as XIII claimed to be but controlling 1 character in a party of 3 is bullshit boring. What's the point of it being fluid if it's boring? I wish they'd spend less time on graphics and more time and making the core gameplay mechanics bareable. Look, alot of people hated XIII and I don't think it's just jumping on the bandwagon. I think with a franchise as popular as Final Fantasy there are certain things you probably shouldn't fuck with. I'm not totally against the turn based system being abolished but they need to come up with something a damn sight better than XIII.

I haven't really read into XIV much so you'll have to pardon me if I say anything naive or stupid. I haven't really heard any criticisms of it either though to be fair. The internet is full of people saying everything sucks. That's why you need to come to somewhere like here where you are more likely to get a balanced argument. Plenty of people on this forum gave XIII the time of day but I simply didn't have the patience. Even if the story was good, which I don't know; I just felt like it was a heap of shit whose sole intention was to look pretty and take our money.

Combat is undeniably a big part of any FF game so getting it wrong is a big mistake. I mean; junctioning may have been broken or flawed in FF8 but at least there was some level of tactical depth. Controlling 1 person just feels like XIII are trying to hold your hand all the time.

Please though, do stick around. You'll hopefully agree that FF Fans aren't the "unreasonably demanding, overly picky, Nostalgia Driven Fan-base in the world."

 

[Masakan]

I hope you haven't registered just to have a go at us
But anyway; Firstly, Welcome! I disagree with the statement that we are overly demanding. Is it too much to ask that the developers actually listen to the people who buy their game? Whatever market research Squeenix do seems to be done poorly. I don't have problems with the franchise evolving but XIII just WASN'T a FF in my eyes. The story was a heap of shite, the battle system was atrocious. That put me off far before I got to become annoyed at the characters (which apparently alot of people did get pissed off with).

You say you disliked the more classic turn based combat but I ask; what's the problem with allowing people actual control over their characters in battle? Sure, it may not be as 'action packed and fluid' as XIII claimed to be but controlling 1 character in a party of 3 is bullshit boring. What's the point of it being fluid if it's boring? I wish they'd spend less time on graphics and more time and making the core gameplay mechanics bareable. Look, alot of people hated XIII and I don't think it's just jumping on the bandwagon. I think with a franchise as popular as Final Fantasy there are certain things you probably shouldn't fuck with. I'm not totally against the turn based system being abolished but they need to come up with something a damn sight better than XIII.

I haven't really read into XIV much so you'll have to pardon me if I say anything naive or stupid. I haven't really heard any criticisms of it either though to be fair. The internet is full of people saying everything sucks. That's why you need to come to somewhere like here where you are more likely to get a balanced argument. Plenty of people on this forum gave XIII the time of day but I simply didn't have the patience. Even if the story was good, which I don't know; I just felt like it was a heap of shit whose sole intention was to look pretty and take our money.

Combat is undeniably a big part of any FF game so getting it wrong is a big mistake. I mean; junctioning may have been broken or flawed in FF8 but at least there was some level of tactical depth. Controlling 1 person just feels like XIII are trying to hold your hand all the time.

Please though, do stick around. You'll hopefully agree that FF Fans aren't the "unreasonably demanding, overly picky, Nostalgia Driven Fan-base in the world."

I really don't see the problem with 13's combat system in my eyes Its really just a modernized version of Chrono trigger's battle system and people claim that it's one of the best RPG's of all time. Speaking of which I really should finish that game.

And no 13 is more than just a pretty face, This is why I don't pay much mind to professional reviews, If I'm interested in something I'll buy it, Play it to the end give it a thorough trial and then I will determine whether it is good of bad once I've seen it for the whole thing. Not play it for 3-4 hours and immediately claim it sucks just because I decided to stop right before I got to the good stuff. Then again I consider myself to be a very patient person. And If I think i wouldn't like a game or it's not my cup of tea I probably won't buy it in the first place. But if I have any sizable interest in anything. I will give it a fair chance, see it through to the end and make my judgement based on the whole picture. That's just how I do things.

 

[iSmiff]

I'd argue I gave the game a chance. I beat some giant floaty face thing (Bartholomew ? ) and then got to go do some missions which were there to make the game seem less linear even though it was linear as a straight line - Another of the criticisms ; well warranted too. You can't argue with the linearity of it. Old FFs are FAR from linear.

 

[Masakan]

Is linearity really such a bad thing? I never really had a problem with it.

 

[iSmiff]

Is linearity really such a bad thing? I never really had a problem with it.

In an RPG? I'd say so. Most FF's are linear to some degree, although they tend to branch out quite early; but not to the extent of XIII.

 

[Masakan]

In an RPG? I'd say so. Most FF's are linear to some degree, although they tend to branch out quite early; but not to the extent of XIII.

Again I never really had a problem mostly because, when I play a game I just blaze through the story anyway as I am curious to know what happens next, and then play through it again to find all the side stuff. The way 13 did it just made things easier for me, and exploring grand pulse and seeing that wide open landscape was actually very beautiful to me.

Obviously they could have done so much more which they probably plan to do with 15. But it was fun to explore and see just how vast it was none the less.

 

[Mr. Zombie]

Before we begin let's get this out of the way. Name's Masakan, first time poster, blah blah blah, how ya doing? OK.

Now you guys in my eyes, have succeeded in something that I thought was impossible. You have surpassed the sonic fan-base as being the most unreasonably demanding, overly picky, Nostalgia Driven Fan-base in the world.

That's not to say that every final fantasy fan thinks that, but it seems when the game in question is not 7,8 or 10 people have nothing but bad things to say. It sounds like I'm listening to grumpy 70 year old men talking about how their time was the golden age and the younger generation is ruining everything. This is only half right. Imo a lot of it has to do with jaded "veterans" who complain about everything that isn't the same as it was in the past, and lazy 12 year olds who bitch and moan about anything they can't just walk up and kill.(just like top Laners in league of legends)

For those of you wondering Yes, I played final fantasy XIII and XIII-2, Yes I feel they are some of the better games in the series, Yes I am more into the action orientated combat. I played 7,8,9 and 10 and the whole time I was thinking "God I rather be playing tales of the abyss" I'm a massive tales fan, Granted I do enjoy turn based combat when done right. Prime examples for me would be the persona series, Skies of Arcadia and Ni no Kuni. But as much grief as people give 12 and 13 I didn't even really like final fantasy UNTIL 12 and this is because they felt more cinematic they tried to go their own way. with the exception of 6 None of the previous FF titles felt like I wasn't playing a less enjoyable tales title.

Look, I understand people have likes and dislikes and even I can admit both of them have their faults, but I still liked both of them having said that the reason, why I'm so annoyed and need to get this off my chest, is because of 15. I will explain why.


I saw the FF 15 trailer and I loved how fast paced it was and knew right away i wanted it (followed by KH3 which almost made me faint). Then(being the advocate for more action based RPG's that I am) I saw comments that almost made me facepalm. People were actually complaining about FF 15 for a lot of things but one thing stood out in particular. Of all the things they complained about they were bitching that (previously verses 13 now 15) the combat system isn't turn based? Of all the things your gonna complain about that's whats going to get under your skin?! Apparently the argument was that since it's a main series title, it should be turn-based and that to me was complete biased ignorance. I can't put it any nicer than that.

What's wrong with them? Are they really so blinded by nostalgia that they will complain about something like this?

Do any of YOU think that verses 13 shouldn't be renamed to 15? I mean, this is almost as bad as the whole green eyes thing from the sonic fanbase.

I pretty much ignored all the criticism for 13 and 13-2 because a lot of things in both those games were directed to people who wouldn't be interested in FF otherwise (myself included) and I understood older gamers probably wouldn't like it very much

And maybe I'm just an ignorant newfag, But I fail to see how anyone can prefer the arbitrary tedium of previous final fantasy games, where you can just grind for days and just roflstomp everything in sight(with the exception of ozma from FF9, that jerk was just unfair) To the fast paced "Live in the Moment" immersion that Real-time combat can provide where the slightest mistake can mean instant death.

I just don't get it.

Anyway sorry to have a rant as my first post, But I needed to get this out of my mind or I'm gonna be dwelling on it all week.

Firstly, welcome and feel at home!

Now, I must say I can relate to the same sentiments. I believe the phenomena you've been experiencing is due to a lack of open mindedness. They believe that because they got into a series in a certain installment, the rest of the franchise must be like the first game they've played, otherwise they'll say it's "not Final Fantasy".

They're too attached to their "first time", not only in games of course. They need to get rid of it and be able to enjoy things as they are. The more expectations you have, the more disappointment you'll get.

Oh, and some people in their 70s are awesome ok?

 

[Sheechiibii]

[FONT=Batang, serif]Well, I definitely gave XIII a fair chance, I played through the entire game, and then a few years later tried playing it again to see if I'd like it more. I didn't. The problem for me is that I didn't like anything in the game. I can forgive a battle system I don't like if I enjoy the story, I can forgive a bad story if there's a huge world to explore. With XIII I couldn't find anything I liked. I hated the story, didn't like any of the characters, the battle system bored me to tears (it may have looked flashy but you're not actually doing much of anything), and one of the worst things for me was the levelling system, it was so linear, you had no flexibility about which character would fulfil which role, which abilities they'd have, it was as linear as the world. So I feel like I really did give it a chance, and I was expecting it to be good, it was the first FF I'd played that I didn't like. I even loved XII which a lot of people had complaints about, but I thought it was a great game, one of the best FF games I've played. I've played XIII-2 and I liked it a lot more than XIII, probably because I liked the story and the characters and things were not so restricted.

But anyway, I feel I'm going a bit off topic. What I mean to say is that I do have valid reasons for disliking XIII, I gave it more than enough of a chance. I thought it was a bad game and one of the worst I've played. It's the only FF game I haven't liked playing though, and I do feel like a lot of fans say that FF has gone downhill, or that the franchise is dying. I do think that's unfair, because one bad game doesn't make a bad series. I love the look of XV, I think it looks great, I don't care whether the battle is turn based or not, as long as it's fun to play, as long as I have options as a player and can feel like I have a choice over what my characters are doing. I have a good feeling about XV, but I'm not a cynical person, so I tend to give things the benefit of the doubt, which many people don't seem to do

But welcome to the forums! I hope you stick around and find out there are lots of different types of people here (though I'm sure you'll meet some who you think are unreasonably demanding, overly picky, Nostalgia Driven fans) and some of us are still happy about Final Fantasy and what they're doing. [/FONT]

 

[Riukumango]

I think the true FF fan, my friend, is one who appreciates change. Some FF games I adore, others I don't like so much. I still play and enjoy all of them, but some don't compare to others. But one thing I'Vé never been disappointed in...is that I can expect something new each time. It's one of the only mainstream franchises to be entirely experimental. And for that I laud Square and Square Enix. Sure it' a business that wants our money, of course. But I've never seen them be too afraid to make a drastic change, and that deserves something. It's like if Justin Bieber released a fricking awesome prog rock album or something.

 

[Master Cat]

'ello there new human! I'm glad you came across our forum on the web.

Well, you may be delighted to know that I am one of the few who actually enjoyed XIII and XIII-2! I never got around to beating them, but I believe I was on chapter 8 (or 10?) in XIII and pretty much the final battle of XIII-2.

With that said, I also embraced the new, more active battle system. I thought it was neat to switch jobs quickly using the paradigm shift. I've been playing VIII lately and the battles are pretty slow and drawn out in comparison (especially when you're trying to Stock loads of magic).

However, I'd like to point out that sometimes the battles in XIII and XIII-2 ended much too quickly - almost as though battling was a waste of time in and of itself. The crystarium (sp) system got a bit tiring after everyone began to share the same abilities and jobs (similar to how X's sphere grid becomes pointless after awhile). Despite that, I consider the paradigm shift and crystarium system to be an innovative and successful feature. I'd imagine that it's one of the reasons why XIII even has a fan base to begin with, considering that the story is lacking when compared to other FF titles.

Don't get me wrong - I like some of the characters in the XIII universe (Hope, Vanille, Serah), but I have to admit that they are somewhat underdeveloped and the more dramatic, "emotional" points in the storyline seemed a little superficial or forced. I don't know - I guess I found myself not caring too much about the story. ^^;

I think it's important for RPGs to have an element of fantasy (obviously), but also a bit of realism to make the characters and story at least somewhat relateable and understandable. It goes beyond having realistic graphics. For instance, it was very easy for me to identify the major themes and concepts in VII, VIII, IX, and X. Not so much XII, and certainly not XIII.

This may be my own fault, and perhaps when I decide to replay XIII from the beginning I should pay more attention to the storyline... But I'd like to think that XIII could've executed a much better storyline without making it so complicated and convoluted.

... I wrote more than I expected to on this. ~.~; But alas, I still enjoyed XIII, XIII-2, and I'll be getting a copy of Lightning Returns -- even though I don't have high hopes for that game in particular based on how it has been marketed thus far. But my curiosity beckons me!

 

[Paddy McGee]

I too enjoyed XIII... Or, I am currently enjoying my recent replay. I decided to take it as its own game.


I certainly prefer the older set of games... But XIII is by no means an awful game in my opinion.


Also, I think it's fine for a fanbase to be demanding. We enjoy the certain franchise, and just want it to succeed and let us enjoy it. If we don't let people know where they've made mistakes, they'll just repeat them.