Feminism

[Sheechiibii]

If you wear revealing clothes and get raped, it's because you were wearing revealing clothes while a rapist was around.

You do realise that the vast majority of rapes are not committed by a stranger but by someone the victim knows and trusts. Is it dangerous and irresponsible to go walking through a bad neighbourhood wearing next to nothing alone? Yes it is. Does that mean that is the reason the rape took place? No. The rape took place because a rapist decided to rape someone. Full stop.

If someone gets mugged and murdered in much the same way, they are not to blame for their own murder. Was their irresponsibility a contributing factor? It may have been, but it was not the reason they were murdered. They were murdered because some sick person wanted to do it.

 

[Paddy McGee]

A rapist is going to rape someone whether they wear a short skirt and top, or a floor-length dress. They're going to do it because they have some wires crossed in their mind and they either:

1. Think that the victim "wants them"

2. Want to control the victim in a deeply personal way.

Does that me that scantily dressed women don't turn on men/women? Of course not: You're entitled to react in that way, on those emotions. You're not hurting anyone by thinking "she's hot"

But, that doesn't mean that they're asking for you to act on these lusty thoughts and emotions to rape or sexually assault/harass them.

I mean, should a gay man be raped by another gay man because he's wearing shorts and a tank top? And, if he is, is it his fault for wearing those clothes?

Nah, I don't think so.

 

[Ultimaja]

They're paid 77 cents to the dollar men are paid for equal work.

It's also fairly easier for a female to find a job. What do you think the homeless male/female ratio is? Who pays alimony? Who, the majority of the time, keeps the house and the kids during a divorce? What's the ratio of males/females are there who go though IRS inquisition?

And what you say is exaggerated and has been assessed many of times. It is more feminist dogma then truth, and only exists in certain employments. Certainly is not an injustice considering the above.

Small sample size. And we work to create an environment that is equal here.

Right, small sample size. But only if it were actually true that the males on here did have better qualities of life, then you'd use it as a proof.

Boom goes the dynamite. It's your fault when you get raped, ladies. May as well not even prosecute. OH WAIT. WE ALMOST NEVER PROSECUTE RAPISTS.

If I walked through a crip neighborhood wearing red colors, with full knowledge of the neighborhood I was walking through, would it be *my fault* if I got jumped or shot?

That's the point to be made. You try and make it something else, but that just shows how ridiculous your standing is.

I don't believe in preaching to people, who aren't going to listen, to not prey after victims. It's stupid, and just a palette for being some moral loudmouth.
If a person makes themselves a victim, then a victim they may become. It's called Earth, third planet from the sun. Reality.

 

[CassinoChips]

If I walked through a crip neighborhood wearing red colors, with full knowledge of the neighborhood I was walking through, would it be *my fault* if I got jumped or shot?

Despite the false equivalency...

Are you white or black? If you're white, as I'm about 48000% sure you are, it wouldn't be your fault. There would be an arrest made and the shooter would probably be executed. Because you should have the right, as a free citizen of the US, to walk anywhere in the country wearing anything you want without fear of random acts of violence. If you're black, it still wouldn't be your fault, but there would be only a token investigation, and unless the shooter figuratively fell into the investigating officer's lap, there would probably be no arrest/trial/conviction.

But that's all wildly off-topic.

Wearing revealing clothes is not the same as saying "anybody who wants, come have sex with me." If a female family member of yours was raped, would you care what they were wearing when it happened?

 

[Shaissa]

If I walked through a crip neighborhood wearing red colors, with full knowledge of the neighborhood I was walking through, would it be *my fault* if I got jumped or shot?

That's the point to be made. You try and make it something else, but that just shows how ridiculous your standing is.

I don't believe in preaching to people, who aren't going to listen, to not prey after victims. It's stupid, and just a palette for being some moral loudmouth.
If a person makes themselves a victim, then a victim they may become. It's called Earth, third planet from the sun. Reality.

umm who said it would be your fault if you got shot? The answer is no, unless this is some magical gang war you are going throw into it right now...

Also earlier you said equality wont ever be 100% achieved, which might be true, so we should never strive for it?

I wonder what people Martin Luther King Jr., or Susan B. Anthony just gave up on trying to get equal rights?

Remember it has only been less than 100 years since Woman had full rights to vote in the United States... and African Americans only could start voting in 1870, although it would be much later in the south mostly before Africans were really free to vote, without major regulations on it.

So really why not try to achieve 100% equality even if it is "impossible"?

 

[Ultimaja]

umm who said it would be your fault if you got shot? The answer is no, unless this is some magical gang war you are going throw into it right now...

Also earlier you said equality wont ever be 100% achieved, which might be true, so we should never strive for it?

I wonder what people Martin Luther King Jr., or Susan B. Anthony just gave up on trying to get equal rights?

Remember it has only been less than 100 years since Woman had full rights to vote in the United States... and African Americans only could start voting in 1870, although it would be much later in the south mostly before Africans were really free to vote, without major regulations on it.

So really why not try to achieve 100% equality even if it is "impossible"?

King and Anthony were activists for very real and very substantial rights and equalities.


The NAACP and NOW are suing people for alleged racist Hallmark cards and complaining about women having to wear bras.
The same people who wanted to get OJ off of murder go after Zimmerman. The only way to deter female rape is to keep them from being victims, but instead the going rate is just talking about how evil rapists are.

It's all bullshit.

If one really wants to try and make a change, try the Church or some humanitarian establishment. Also take notice that both King and Anthony were heavily religious.

 

[Donald Trump]

I haven't read all of the posts in this thread because that would be tedious. However, I have read enough to pick up the main issues.

Firstly the definition of Feminism. It is the attempt to achieve equality between sexes.
However, it's not perceived that way, so whilst I am in favour of equality, I wouldn't call myself a feminist as most people don't consider feminism to be about equality.
The reason for the changed perception of feminism is to do with feminism's goal. Everyone except misogynists is in favour of women being able to vote etc, fairly basic levels of equality. Having achieved those basic levels of equality, in the first world at least, feminism is trying to eradicate the less obvious aspects of sexism, such as the fact that women get paid less for doing the same jobs, under-representation in positions of power (eg in politics, compare the number of female world leaders to male ones, or the number of women in the cabinets of Obama, or Cameron, or whichever cunt your own country has elected. Or the number of women in high ranking positions, there are 19 CEOs running fortune 500 businesses, or 3.8%), the way in which powerful women are treated in the press vs men, eg Miley Cyrus and Robin Thicke, or the treatment of the former leader of Convictland, Julia Gillard, gender roles etc.

The attempt to produce equality necessarily means taking a metaphorical hammer to tradition. As many people are, on some level at least, conservative, they resent this. Particularly the influence feminism (and I should point out here that I am describing feminism as if it is some organised monolithic movement, it isn't, and I will return to this point later), seeks to have on gender roles. For those of you without a liberal arts degree, gender is socially constructed, whereas sex, in terms of male and female, is purely biological. The most obvious example is the idea that the man is supposed to be the main breadwinner in a relationship, this idea has been prevalent from about the first time humans came together to form a society until th3 1970s-80s, and it's an idea that still exists. Essentially, feminism is radically changing the way men and women relate to one another. What was once considered normal is now frowned upon. Some people see this as an attempt, in their words, to make women people superior to men, or some bullshit like that.

The other reason is that the internet has changed the way information is communicated, and social media most of all. Now anyone who wants to can say what they want and call it what they want, in this case feminism. This of course, leads to a diluting of what feminism means. What is more widely seen are the examples of poor feminism, all men are rapists, how dare that man buy me a drink and ask for my phone number etc, than examples of good feminism, such as campaigns to get revenge porn sites shut down.
Related to this is that many feminists, even the proper ones, are idiots. Of course most people are idiots. Argor mentioned before everyday sexism's attempt to portray the sexualised verbal abuse that women receive every day. It was a complete failure. A lot of is because many of the people writing don't have proper degrees, ie History, and philosophy to a lesser extent. Their arguments are poorly constructed, they don't use evidence correctly etc. This scarcity of intellectual weight is also at the top, there is no Simone de Beauvoir of Germaine Greer for this current generation of feminism, the best there is only Naomi Wolf.

Furthermore, in that situation, I felt disgusting. I consciously tried to make noise so that I knew she knew I was around. I was terrified in case she was startled, or in case she thought I was a dangerous man. I don't like that feminism has done this - I felt like the woman would assume I was going to attack her. I didn't want to stop in case she thought I was hiding, I didn't want to speed up in case she was startled - and I hated myself for being in a position where I felt like I had to reassure a stranger I wasn't going to attack her. The point I want to round off with is that it upset me to no end that the girl with her headphones in took such a risk, putting herself in such a position, and putting ME in that position, when the main, well-lit, busy road was but a few feet in the other direction.

So you blame her rather than the rapist?

Also, the whole concept of rape culture is that it's not just about the physical act of rape. It's also about exerting control over the female population through the fear of being raped. Because of the perpetuation of that fear, women have to dress a certain way, act a certain way, walk (or not) in certain places at certain times. By simply giving them an alarm and telling them "good luck," it's a furtherance of the concept that women are being controlled by the possibility of being raped. It feeds into the culture.

I'm very sceptical about 'rape culture' which assumes that rape is a unique crime, and that rape is more of a problem in the present in the west than in anywhere else or at any other time. Neither of which I think are true. It further assumes that said culture contributes to rape, which is based on... nothing.

1) A movement to "ban" Blurred Lines from being played on Campus because it "promotes rape culture"

It's sexual politics are undoubtedly reprehensible, 'you know you want it', but freedom of speech.

2) "Ban page 3 (British newspaper tradition: contains topless models)/Lads' Mags"

I've always found it an odd idea, that along with your celebrity gossip, soccer news and other tabloid stuff, you'd want a pair of tits. Again I'd go freedom of speech.

3) Positive discrimination: 50% of the student council must be female; if not enough females run, nominations must be reopened until a female runs for the position

I find affirmative action deeply problematic. It's contrary to the meritocratic principles on which our countries are supposed to run. In this case it's also anti-democratic, and I'm surprised that anyone thought such a shit idea was any good. Can't wait for scotch independence.

You cunts managed an extra ten posts while I was writing this.

 

[Sheechiibii]

There's a common mistranslation of the Blurred Lines lyrics which annoys me every time I see it. Nowhere in the song does he say "You know you want it" he says "I know you want it" and follows up by saying "go ahead get at me". The entire song is about a guy telling a girl that she doesn't have to put on a 'good girl' act with him, that she can have him if she wants him and he puts the ball entirely in her court. Nobody can honestly say that if the roles were reversed and a woman said to a man "I know you want it, the way you grab me, go ahead get at me" that she'd be raping him. I mean, come on! There is nothing rapey about the song (kinky, yes, but rape? Please) it's a huge overreaction.

 

[Donald Trump]

I really don't want to discuss the song as it's fucking terrible (musically) but I disagree. I was wrong before, and in fact, 'I know you want it' (a line repeated about 20 times) is worse than you know you want it. He knows she wants it? She clearly hasn't told him she wants it, as the only female presence in the song is three girls dancing topless next to three fully clothed men.
Two other lines from 2013's smash misogyny hit, 'You the hottest bitch in this place', and 'I'll give you something big enough to tear your ass in two'. With that kind of song writing genius and respect for women, there is no way that they could making an unpleasant song, and it is actually a song about female empowerment.

 

[Ultimaja]

So you blame her rather than the rapist?

What does blame do?
That's right, nothing.

How do females deter rape?
It obviously isn't wearing promiscuous clothes and throwing oneself into questionable situations and relationships.

So what is there to do?
According to feminism, it's to talk about how evil rapists are and otherwise do nothing about it because it infringes on a female's freedom to do whatever she wants.


How grand, feminists, hats off to you.
Now, for a little philosophy on martyrdom vs suicide...

 

[CassinoChips]

"Baby, can you breathe
I got this from Jamaica
It always works for me
Dakota to Decatur
No more pretending
Cause now you're winning
Here's our beginning
I always wanted a

[Robin Thicke Hook:]
Good girl
I know you want it
I know you want it
I know you want it
You're a good girl
Can't let it get past me"

Come on now. Get them intoxicated/high, lower their inhibitions, then have sex with them. It's glamorizing date rape.

 

[Sheechiibii]

"Baby, can you breathe
I got this from Jamaica
It always works for me
Dakota to Decatur
No more pretending
Cause now you're winning
Here's our beginning
I always wanted a

[Robin Thicke Hook:]
Good girl
I know you want it
I know you want it
I know you want it
You're a good girl
Can't let it get past me"

Come on now. Get them intoxicated/high, lower their inhibitions, then have sex with them. It's glamorizing date rape.

Again you're ignoring the fact that the entire song is telling her to come and get it from him. He's telling her all the wonderful kinky sex he'll give her if she takes him up on the offer. Considering she's the one grabbing him and all over him, it's pretty clear why he thinks she wants it.

"The way you grab me
Must wanna get nasty
Go ahead, get at me"

He knows she wants it because she's all over him grabbing him. If a guy was all over a girl grabbing her people would scream sexual abuse and rape right? But no, cause it's a guy she's all over it's him raping her? The double standard is pretty awful.

 

[CassinoChips]

If a guy was all over a girl grabbing her people would scream sexual abuse and rape right? But no, cause it's a guy she's all over it's him raping her? The double standard is pretty awful.

It's not a double standard because women don't have a clear history of date raping men.

Also, the lyrics you quoted actually cement the point. "Because you're touching me, you must want to have sex with me." Male entitlement.

 

[Sheechiibii]

It's not a double standard because women don't have a clear history of date raping men.

Also, the lyrics you quoted actually cement the point. "Because you're touching me, you must want to have sex with me." Male entitlement.

A double standard is: "when a rule or principle is unfairly applied in different ways to different people or groups." This fits. When a man grabs a woman and is all over her, it's rape. When a woman does it to a man he's called lucky. When a man tells a girl to come and get him because he can tell she wants it it's rape. When a woman does it the guy is called lucky. That is a double standard. Whether you think it's a justifiable one or not.

Even if he is being presumptuous by assuming she wants to have sex with him , he still puts the ball entirely in her court by telling her to make the move on him. That is the opposite of rape. Though I find it pretty awful how women assume every man is a rapist simply due to his having a penis, yet a man assuming a woman wants to have sex with him due to her own actions is somehow rapey.

 

[CassinoChips]

A double standard is: "when a rule or principle is unfairly applied in different ways to different people or groups." This fits. When a man grabs a woman and is all over her, it's rape. When a woman does it to a man he's called lucky. When a man tells a girl to come and get him because he can tell she wants it it's rape. When a woman does it the guy is called lucky. That is a double standard. Whether you think it's a justifiable one or not.

In a vacuum, yes. But context is important.

Even if he is being presumptuous by assuming she wants to have sex with him. He still puts the ball entirely in her court by telling her to make the move on him. That is the opposite of rape.

A person in an altered mental state can be considered to lack the capability of making informed consent. Again, context is important. Get them high, impair their ability to make sound judgment, allowing him to take advantage of their lowered (or complete lack of) inhibitions.

 

[Sheechiibii]

A person in an altered mental state can be considered to lack the capability of making informed consent. Again, context is important. Get them high, impair their ability to make sound judgment, allowing him to take advantage of their lowered (or complete lack of) inhibitions.

Show me the lyrics in the song that are about getting the woman so intoxicated she can't make up her own mind. Anything about drugs is about him as much as her.

 

[Ethics]

I think you're actually mistaken on this point, Jesse....and Sheechiibii has the right of it. It's the same as drunk sex, and a consensual yes is still a yes. It isn't like he himself isn't partaking in anything that alters his own mental state; you seem to treat the scenario as if he's tricking her into using it so he can get with her. No trick, he tells her exactly what it is. You're confusing items of leisure by putting them in a scenario about forcing it. It's a guy coming onto a girl (not literally, you fucking pervs) and that isn't rape at all.

I can see where your misunderstanding of it is coming from, but at the end of the day, it really isn't glorifying date rape. One night stands and substance abuse? Perhaps, but not date rape.

 

[CassinoChips]

I think you're actually mistaken on this point, Jesse....and Sheechiibii has the right of it. It's the same as drunk sex, and a consensual yes is still a yes. It isn't like he himself isn't partaking in anything that alters his own mental state; you seem to treat the scenario as if he's tricking her into using it so he can get with her. No trick, he tells her exactly what it is. You're confusing items of leisure by putting them in a scenario about forcing it. It's a guy coming onto a girl (not literally, you fucking pervs) and that isn't rape at all.

I can see where your misunderstanding of it is coming from, but at the end of the day, it really isn't glorifying date rape. One night stands and substance abuse? Perhaps, but not date rape.

Agree to disagree I guess. I see much more emphasis placed on getting her high than the both of them happening to be high.

 

[Ultimaja]

Are we going to pretend like girls don't get guys drunk to sleep with them? Because that shit happens all the time, especially women going for married men and the like.
I can guarantee you if the song was by a woman, there would be no controversy.

Just pointing out the conflict of interest; why feminism is feminism and not humanism.

 

[Six]

I agree with both Jesse and Scheeb on this one. Getting a shallow girl who doesn't know better drunk enough falls under a form and way of rape to me. Due to this is not the case in ALL scenarios, I can see the other party's side too.

I think the song is degrading in general. I would definitely not want to hear shit like that.

Edit: If that song was by a woman, I'd be equally grossed out by songs like that. I'm 100% female mind you, there must still be something right in Feminism then, eh?

How do females deter rape?
It obviously isn't wearing promiscuous clothes and throwing oneself into questionable situations and relationships.

How do MALE victims deter rape?

I could walk around friggin' naked if I wanted to and that still doesn't magically give me a sign with "I'm asking for it", please stop excusing disgusting men and women who use how others dress as an excuse for assault, it's really disgusting.

Stares, whistles, hell if people don't like it, getting boo'ed at, sure, go right at it, but don't you dare lay your hand on a men or women just because of the way they dress. All accountability is on the rapist on that, NONE on the victim.