Aerith and her Faith

[Terra Branford]

If grammar requires that it be capitalized, how can it being capitalized be used as evidence that it's related to Christianity? It can't. That's circular logic. The premise of that argument is flawed by its very nature.

....

Grammar calls for the start of the limit to be capitalized (when you brought up Chaos, which is a name, so its supposed to be capped lol). The fact that The Gospel is a "thing" (I'll try to keep it in simple steps) it has to be capped. Um....hm, oh! Like Place nouns: The Great Lakes, New York, or Lake Erie. The fact that gospel turned and made "The Gospel" is Christian. Its a "thing" so it gets capitalized.

If your trying to apply logic to the discussion, I think you need to first step back from the PC and take a look at your posts and then look up Heteronym, gospel, The Gospel and gospel's past and whatever else I'm talking about. You can also look up nouns, place nouns, adjectives, verbs, action verbs, pretense, past pretense, present pretense and things like that. Or just major in Linguistics. :/

Secondly, I don't hate Christians or Christianity simply because they're Christian or because it's Christianity. I grew up Catholic. The vast majority of my family are practicing Catholics. I live in the South. Everybody I know is Christian. To be anti-Christian for the hell of it is ludicrous, and frankly, I'd rather you not impugn my character in such a manner.

As I said -- the way you respond to Christians or Christianity at all(I've sorta avoided some threads because of it) is rather harsh and comes off hateful. You can grow up in a Christian area and still be a hater.
I can grow up a Christian (which I initially didn't) and still hate it. Just because you grew up around it doesn't mean you can't hate it. My father grew up with a Catholic family and parents and hates religion and is a Atheist.

Regardless, my personal beliefs about Christianity have nothing to do with my argument, or the information contained therein. Ad hominem attacks are a logical fallacy. Argue the information, not the source.

And finally, until you show me evidence of Aeris worshipping Jesus, she's not Christian. She simply appears in a game that borrows from Christian imagery.

Actually, if you have a biased view, you can't really discuss it since you see it in one light and refuse to listen to anything, therefore ending the "argument" (which is a debate actually), despite what is brought. There is a reason its called "biased". If I was a religion hater and didn't want to hear a single word (in your case, the simple idea of a possibility of Aerith being a Christian), I'd be biased.

Did you...miss all my previous information? Did the links, descriptions, images and everything else, get cut out when I posted it?
That my friend, is evidence. Its the matter if you'll take it or not that is the issue at hand here. :/

Wow wow, did I say Aerith worshiped Jesus? We are discussing the possibility of her religion and I'm discussing the possibility of her being a Christian.

I'll say it again -- you come off as a hater (biased) person right now.

*sorry for any grammar mistakes -- its pretty late lol*

 

[CassinoChips]

Grammar calls for the start of the limit to be capitalized (when you brought up Chaos, which is a name, so its supposed to be capped lol). The fact that The Gospel is a "thing" (I'll try to keep it in simple steps) it has to be capped. Um....hm, oh! Like Place nouns: The Great Lakes, New York, or Lake Erie. The fact that gospel turned and made "The Gospel" is Christian. Its a "thing" so it gets capitalized.

If your trying to apply logic to the discussion, I think you need to first step back from the PC and take a look at your posts and then look up Heteronym, gospel, The Gospel and gospel's past and whatever else I'm talking about. You can also look up nouns, place nouns, adjectives, verbs, action verbs, pretense, past pretense, present pretense and things like that. Or just major in Linguistics. :/

Or you could major in Logic.

You're missing the point. The capitalization of "Gospel" is necessary in both cases. Case A being because it's a limit break, and Case B because it may or may not be a Christian tie-in. Thus, because we cannot separate the two due to a lack of evidence (specifically, not knowing the intent of the creators), this alone cannot stand as evidence of Aeris being Christian.

To put it another way, we have two possible scenarios:

A) The word "Gospel" is capitalized because it is a direct correlation to Christianity. Thus, the capitalization is grammatically necessary.

B) The word "Gospel" is capitalized because all words in all limit breaks of all characters are capitalized. Thus, the capitalization is grammatically necessary.

In both cases, the capitalization is grammatically necessary. Therefore, the fact that it is capitalized cannot be used as evidence that it's a direct reference to the Christian Gospel. Because it's just as likely that it has nothing to do with it.

As I said -- the way you respond to Christians or Christianity at all(I've sorta avoided some threads because of it) is rather harsh and comes off hateful. You can grow up in a Christian area and still be a hater.
I can grow up a Christian (which I initially didn't) and still hate it. Just because you grew up around it doesn't mean you can't hate it. My father grew up with a Catholic family and parents and hates religion and is a Atheist.

The truth is harsh sometimes. I make no apologies for my opinions. I don't believe I've offended anyone, though if I have, I would apologize for that.

Actually, if you have a biased view, you can't really discuss it since you see it in one light and refuse to listen to anything, therefore ending the "argument" (which is a debate actually), despite what is brought. There is a reason its called "biased". If I was a religion hater and didn't want to hear a single word (in your case, the simple idea of a possibility of Aerith being a Christian), I'd be biased.

"Bias" does not prevent one from discussing an issue. And just because I have a different viewpoint, and refuse to change it without proper evidence being shown does not mean that I'm biased and/or a hater. That means I have an opinion.

I'm perfectly willing to accept Aeris being Christian. There simply has been nothing in this threador elsewhere that would suggest that she herself worships Jesus Christ.

Did you...miss all my previous information? Did the links, descriptions, images and everything else, get cut out when I posted it?
That my friend, is evidence. Its the matter if you'll take it or not that is the issue at hand here. :/

I saw it. It's not convincing. You took one part of a dictionary definition and ignored the others.

From dictionary.com:

5. a doctrine regarded as of prime importance: political gospel.

So it doesn't necessarily have to be a Christian thing.

Wow wow, did I say Aerith worshiped Jesus? We are discussing the possibility of her religion and I'm discussing the possibility of her being a Christian.

Did I say you said that? No. I said if she were a Christian, she'd make reference in some fashion to Jesus Christ as, and correct me if I'm wrong, that's pretty much the basis of the whole religion.

I'll say it again -- you come off as a hater (biased) person right now.

All I've done is present facts and my interpretation thereof. In fact, you're the only one doing any attacking.

 

[Lebreau]

Okay, I believe we're talking about Aerith and her faith here, not whether or not TTT is anti-Christian, okay? What faith anyone but Aerith or someone else in FF7 is has no relevance here, and I'd hate to close a thread that could show some great discussion.
Don't make me close it or have to hand out individual warnings, thank you.

 

[Terra Branford]

Or you could major in Logic.

You're missing the point. The capitalization of "Gospel" is necessary in both cases. Case A being because it's a limit break, and Case B because it may or may not be a Christian tie-in. Thus, because we cannot separate the two due to a lack of evidence (specifically, not knowing the intent of the creators), this alone cannot stand as evidence of Aeris being Christian.

To put it another way, we have two possible scenarios:

A) The word "Gospel" is capitalized because it is a direct correlation to Christianity. Thus, the capitalization is grammatically necessary.

B) The word "Gospel" is capitalized because all words in all limit breaks of all characters are capitalized. Thus, the capitalization is grammatically necessary.

Here is where it starts. *sigh*

You don't know what I major in. The fact that I have to explain basic grammar to an adult (?) should mean something. You've stirred mud in this clear water, Terry.

I don't think you'll ever understand. Gospel is capitalized at the start of a sentence. In the middle or end, it is not. Ex:

1: I'm sure I just read gospel in that paper!

2: 'Gospel' is a nifty sounding word, ain't it Bob?

In some cases, as I pointed out, yea, it is capped. What you aren't getting is that there is a difference between "gospel" and "The Gospel" and you seem to lack the ability to read what I'm saying and instead, become biased, hateful, bashful and spiteful and cranky towards me and my discussion. >.>

If any person was to apply grammar properly, they'd know you wouldn't cap "Chaos Bringer" (as an example), you'd do this: "Chaos bringer". Well, sometimes you would, but that steps into another realm of grammar that isn't really applied here at the moment.

Unless its name: Matthew Warren Bennett, you would not capitalize all the words, or else people would be writing like this:
I Am A Huge Fan Of Pokemon. Are You A Big Fan Of Pokemon?

It’s called grammar. Even English has rules, even if it mixed with Anglo-Saxon that met Norman tongue, Roman Latin, Germanic sounds, African adjectives and Greek verbs and various other languages.
It’s a rule for a reason. If applied like it is meant to and is under its guidelines, you would NOT cap it, except rare cases: New York, The Great Lakes etc.

In both cases, the capitalization is grammatically necessary. Therefore, the fact that it is capitalized cannot be used as evidence that it's a direct reference to the Christian Gospel. Because it's just as likely that it has nothing to do with it.

Aye, exactly. It is capped for a reason. The reason being to distinguish between the two and that both of them anyway is Christian.

The fact that it IS capped because it needs to be because it needs to distinguish between gospel (The Jesus written part) and the later definition of "The Gospel", referring to Christianity. It doesn't matter if you don't want to believe the word is not associated to Jesus Christ and Christianity. The simple fact is that it is Christian. Now we just need to discuss whether or not this applies to Aerith, and I'm sure I can probably prove it with what I know. But hey, we never know ^,^

Again, it’s the matter of you nitpicking or not wanting it to be evidence. So not matter what I bring to you, the response will be the same, aye?

"Bias" does not prevent one from discussing an issue. And just because I have a different viewpoint, and refuse to change it without proper evidence being shown does not mean that I'm biased and/or a hater. That means I have an opinion.

No it doesn't stop you from debating, of course not. It prevents them from being a valuable asset (one that can be taken seriously) to the discussion because their views cannot shift, or they cannot take in account anything that might be right for them or might be wrong against them.

Hey, if I get prove wrong, I'll be like: "Dang man, it was pretty convincing though, right?" and then move on.

The truth is harsh sometimes. I make no apologies for my opinions. I don't believe I've offended anyone, though if I have, I would apologize for that.

Huh. You know Terry, it’s okay if you hate. .Lebreau said to stop this discussion, so we'll stop it.

I'm not saying you need to apologize for your opinion, I've never said that. But I haven't been the one sitting on glass and lashing out at someone because they want to discuss Aerith being a Christian, am I? No. Instead, you've been hostile toward me and the possibility of Aerith being Christian. Why?

I'm perfectly willing to accept Aeris being Christian. There simply has been nothing in this threador elsewhere that would suggest that she herself worships Jesus Christ.

Oh, all the Christians elements don’t work for you? What about the prayers, Christian Angels, The Gospel (even if I were to play with you guys say use "gospel" it’s still Christian), Church, her Christian views and the general Christian take of the game, isn't evidence?

Tell me then Terry, what classifies itself as evidence to you? Because no matter what a person brings fourth for their side, is evidence. In Forensics, a simple strand of hair can be more than enough to prove their side, or even a little paint chip or a piece of dirt in the wrong place, or maybe even the displacement of grass or gravel.

My evidence is evidence. You refuse to see it that way. Eh.

I saw it. It's not convincing. You took one part of a dictionary definition and ignored the others.

From dictionary.com:

5. a doctrine regarded as of prime importance: political gospel.

So it doesn't necessarily have to be a Christian thing.[/i]

I posted all that I saw on the website. Besides that, someone already posted that definition. What need does it serve to repost it? I didn't "ignore" anything.

You don't seem to realize that gospel is Christian and it’s initially rise in humanity is Christian and how it is spelled and used, determines its meaning.

I guess by new meanings, Jesus Christ is now a swear word? The point is gospel, The Gospel, Gospel or even Great Gospel, is Christian. You just don't care and what to shift the meaning of it, or deny grammar its stage and role in the word.

Did I say you said that? No. I said if she were a Christian, she'd make reference in some fashion to Jesus Christ as, and correct me if I'm wrong, that's pretty much the basis of the whole religion.

And the references stated weren't enough? Praying Christian style (lol) in a church, a Holy House of worship only allowed to the Abrahamic Religions or the Christian Angels weren't enough? Seriously? :confused

All I've done is present facts and my interpretation thereof. In fact, you're the only one doing any attacking.

Facts? How have you've presented facts? Whaaaa? All you did was argue with me. You've brought nothing but a recent definition of the word that was already posted.

Again, whaaa?

Me, attacking? How so? I've done nothing wrong. I said I couldn't really take you serious because I've seen your attitude toward Christians. I didn't flat out make a reference that you needed to go back to school. I remember saying you need to google (or did I not say google...?) the meaning of Heteronym. And I never said "You need to major in Linguistics" like you did to me. I was saying instead of all that (searching up all the meanings of the grammar usage), one could major in Linguistics and I was actually kinda hinting that I was majoring in Linguistics and have been studying Linguistics. I've never once attacked you. >.>


I've been calm and kind through this whole thing. What are you talking about? I made a comment, which wasn't rude in any way, that I couldn't really take you serious because I've seen you attack, insult and act harshly toward Christians on this forum and toward Christianity.

All I've done was debate, something you've entirely tried to change or wanted to go off tangent.

-------
​

Oh, I forgot! When I get back on tomorrow and if this thread wasn't closed, I think I can bring a few more points if need be. Buts its 1:04 and I gotz loads of essays to finish before the end of next week, plus my History class lol.

Tomorrow (although it might be the next day depending on my free time) I'll try to get one and finish ^,^

@.Lebreau:
Okay, sorry it went off topic. It truth, I'm not sure how to tell if its going off topic unless its really obvious like talking about flavors of soup and then we switch to coffer. >.>

I won't do it again.

Night guys!

 

[CassinoChips]

Here is where it starts. *sigh*

You don't know what I major in. The fact that I have to explain basic grammar to an adult (?) should mean something. You've stirred mud in this clear water, Terry.

I don't think you'll ever understand. Gospel is capitalized at the start of a sentence. In the middle or end, it is not. Ex:

1: I'm sure I just read gospel in that paper!

2: 'Gospel' is a nifty sounding word, ain't it Bob?

In some cases, as I pointed out, yea, it is capped. What you aren't getting is that there is a difference between "gospel" and "The Gospel" and you seem to lack the ability to read what I'm saying and instead, become biased, hateful, bashful and spiteful and cranky towards me and my discussion. >.>

If any person was to apply grammar properly, they'd know you wouldn't cap "Chaos Bringer" (as an example), you'd do this: "Chaos bringer". Well, sometimes you would, but that steps into another realm of grammar that isn't really applied here at the moment.

Unless its name: Matthew Warren Bennett, you would not capitalize all the words, or else people would be writing like this:
I Am A Huge Fan Of Pokemon. Are You A Big Fan Of Pokemon?

It’s called grammar. Even English has rules, even if it mixed with Anglo-Saxon that met Norman tongue, Roman Latin, Germanic sounds, African adjectives and Greek verbs and various other languages.
It’s a rule for a reason. If applied like it is meant to and is under its guidelines, you would NOT cap it, except rare cases: New York, The Great Lakes etc.

Aye, exactly. It is capped for a reason. The reason being to distinguish between the two and that both of them anyway is Christian.

Howling Moon. Sled Fang. Dolphin Blow. Great Gospel. Beat Rush. Big Shot.

See how they're all capitalized?

If it were "howling moon" and "sled fang" and "dolphin blow" and then "great Gospel," you might have a point. But since they're all capitalized, it's just another word.

The fact that it IS capped because it needs to be because it needs to distinguish between gospel (The Jesus written part) and the later definition of "The Gospel", referring to Christianity. It doesn't matter if you don't want to believe the word is not associated to Jesus Christ and Christianity. The simple fact is that it is Christian. Now we just need to discuss whether or not this applies to Aerith, and I'm sure I can probably prove it with what I know. But hey, we never know ^,^

The simple fact is that you interpret it as Christian, when it does not necessarily have to be so. It's just another word.

No it doesn't stop you from debating, of course not. It prevents them from being a valuable asset (one that can be taken seriously) to the discussion because their views cannot shift, or they cannot take in account anything that might be right for them or might be wrong against them.

Again, you're dismissing information because of the source. That's illogical. Examine the information, not the source.

I'm not saying you need to apologize for your opinion, I've never said that. But I haven't been the one sitting on glass and lashing out at someone because they want to discuss Aerith being a Christian, am I? No. Instead, you've been hostile toward me and the possibility of Aerith being Christian. Why?

How have I been hostile? All I've done is disagree with you.

Oh, all the Christians elements don’t work for you? What about the prayers, Christian Angels, The Gospel (even if I were to play with you guys say use "gospel" it’s still Christian), Church, her Christian views and the general Christian take of the game, isn't evidence?

It's evidence of there being Christian symbolism in the game. It's still missing one key ingredient to be considered Christian: Jesus Christ. Also, praying, angels, gospel, and a house of worship are not specific to Christianity.

Tell me then Terry, what classifies itself as evidence to you? Because no matter what a person brings fourth for their side, is evidence. In Forensics, a simple strand of hair can be more than enough to prove their side, or even a little paint chip or a piece of dirt in the wrong place, or maybe even the displacement of grass or gravel.

Sure, but if I can prove that that paint chip was due to a police officer scuffing their shoe against the wall, and not by the killer, then the evidence is thrown out and not considered evidence against the defendant.

You don't seem to realize that gospel is Christian and it’s initially rise in humanity is Christian and how it is spelled and used, determines its meaning.

I guess by new meanings, Jesus Christ is now a swear word? The point is gospel, The Gospel, Gospel or even Great Gospel, is Christian. You just don't care and what to shift the meaning of it, or deny grammar its stage and role in the word.

It doesn't have to be. Which is the point.

Me, attacking? How so? I've done nothing wrong. I said I couldn't really take you serious because I've seen your attitude toward Christians. I didn't flat out make a reference that you needed to go back to school. I remember saying you need to google (or did I not say google...?) the meaning of Heteronym. And I never said "You need to major in Linguistics" like you did to me. I was saying instead of all that (searching up all the meanings of the grammar usage), one could major in Linguistics and I was actually kinda hinting that I was majoring in Linguistics and have been studying Linguistics. I've never once attacked you. >.>

Calling me a hater, biased, anti-Christian, etc. Also, the "you could major in Linguistics" and "having to explain grammar to an adult (?)" implied that my intelligence isn't high enough to grasp these amazingly complex concepts, and was very patronizing and superior.

I've been calm and kind through this whole thing. What are you talking about? I made a comment, which wasn't rude in any way, that I couldn't really take you serious because I've seen you attack, insult and act harshly toward Christians on this forum and toward Christianity.

All I've done was debate, something you've entirely tried to change or wanted to go off tangent.

And there it is again. Pointing fingers.

I don't automatically dismiss you because you're Christian. Don't automatically dismiss me because I'm not your version of Christian.

 

[Sir Kenneth]

Does anyone know how the original Japanese version of the game was worded? Did they actually use the Japanese words for "church" and "gospel" or did they go for more traditional Japanese terms from the Shinto religion perhaps?

 

[Rydrum2112]

Rids, Galaxy, & triple T areright. She is not a christian.

Terra- I was giving the entomology of the word, which is how people who create fiction come up with names for characters, settings, etc...

There are some factual reasons she couldn't be christian, there is no christian religion on gaia or in ff7. She wasn't raised christian since no one on the planet knows it. Christ never lived on gaia. etc etc.

Plus she doesn't pray in the christian style (she makes a fist and wraps her other hand over it). All there is that is truethfully known on her is here.


Ofcourse you completely missed my point about how Japan is not a christian country. My point was the likelihood of her being a christian is small since there aren't many christians in Japan, and they are the ones who created her.

Also the creators of the character have stated she is a geomancer, her name even comes from "earth." Which is not something related to christianity at all, that is more pagan. Plus she has 2 other limit breaks that are earth/planet based.

Besides who decided they were angels? they could be any of the following.

Also you accuse TTT of being biased, when I think in fact you have confirmation bias- you decided she was christian and found evidence to support your thought.

 

[Bambi]

not read the rest of the thread, but il throw my peanut in anyway

isn't it the planet she is praying to? not a god?

it wouldnt surprise me if elements of religion were taken, but i dont think that means its set in stone as christian. its just liek the use of greek mythology in games, doesnt make the characters greek. its just taking elements of different beleifs an' shit

thats j ust what i think anyway

Grammar calls for the start of the limit to be capitalized (when you brought up Chaos, which is a name, so its supposed to be capped lol)

Big Shot, Mind Blow? All Creation, Boost Jump, Hyper Jump, Beat Rush...

Just sayin'...

 

[Ohri-Jin]

I agree with Triple T, untill Jesus is not mentioned in FF7 (which has never occured) No Christianity exist in FF EVER !!
They just took resembling aspects and even words but nothing more..

In the end..who cares lol...

 

[Rydrum2112]

I forgot to post this earlier

Gospel = good news.
Getting all your HP & MP back as well as being invincible for a little bit = good news.

 

[The Witch]

I forgot to post this earlier

Gospel = good news.
Getting all your HP & MP back as well as being invincible for a little bit = good news.

Okay--now, explain her loving to live/visit in a Gothic Christian Church?
Picture of the outside design of Aerith's church and the interior interior2 interior3 (notice the long stained glass window that looks just like this)of Aerith's church. And here's pictures of real-life Gothic Churches, and its interior; see how it's identical to Aerith's church?

If it looks like a church it's a church.

Or how about her kneeling on her knees and intentionally praying to God so Angels can aide her in battle? See Angels here; 1

Like in Pulse of Life, Aerith throws her weapon away and clasps her hands in prayer and kneels to the floor and is then bathed in white light; as seen here;

Or like in Great Gospel, when Christian/catholic angels aide her in battle after she prays to them; as seen here

So, let's recap; Aerith
a.) loves to live in a Christian Church
b.) prays on her knees to a God that sends down angels after she asks for their aide
c.) her limit break has the word Gospel--combine that word with the fact that Aerith prays for angels to help her and it's pretty obvious what the word Gospel is meaning in this game.

(And not to mention, after Reno tells his soldiers in the beginning of the game to not step on Aerith's flowers; one of the soldiers shout; "You'll catch Holy Hell")

Reno: "Oh!"
(He re-enters.)
Reno: "And don't step on the flowers......"
(The three guards speak in unison)
"Hey Reno, you just stepped on them!"
"They're all ruined!"
"You're gonna catch holy hell!"

So the evidence of Aerith believing in a God and being of Christian faith is literally proven.

Unless, praying to God, seeking help from angels, and visiting churches doesn't make someone a Christian? And if that's the case, looks like I'm not a Christian either... oh, wait--

 

[CassinoChips]

So the evidence of Aerith believing in a God and being of Christian faith is literally proven.

The evidence is all circumstantial. The only thing you've proven is that there is Christian imagery in the game.

Unless, praying to God,

She's praying to the Planet.

seeking help from angels, and visiting churches doesn't make someone a Christian? And if that's the case, looks like I'm not a Christian either... oh, wait--

None of that specifically makes you Christian. I dated a Jewish girl in college who was always asking angels for help. If I visit churches (or mosques or synagogues) as a guest, that doesn't make me a full-fledged member of that religion.

What makes you a Christian is your belief in Jesus Christ. Simple as. Aeris is never shown as worshipping, praying to, or believing in Jesus Christ. Therefore, until she does, it cannot be said that she is Christian.

 

[Dionysos]

I agree that some of the ideas surrounding Aerith, as well as her design, resemble Christianity. She also resembles other faiths though, including Shinto. I read a chapter in Final Fantasy and Philosophy regarding FF7 and Shinto, and it argues that what is happening in FF7 mirrors a solution to cultural invasion; Japanese (though could applied to much more than that) assimilation of Western and modernised ideologies through a Shinto respect for spirituality; that the world of FF7 changed when Jenova (like Jehovah?) landed and that there was a serious clash of worlds.

Following the collapse of the Cetra peoples the world was very different, though oblivious to Jenova for a couple of thousand years. I’m not saying that God is placed as the villain in FF7 at all though. I’m not making the link between Jenova and Jehova in this thread to place God as the villain, I’m merely stating that an ancient culture came into contact with a being from the skies and changed forever. If the world of FF7 was to survive it perhaps had to assimilate Jenova somehow, or to fight it off, but all the same learning from and growing from the experience of this contact. It does mirror in some respects what happened to Earth with the birth and rise of the Abrahamic religions. Beliefs were adapted, changed, and there was a cultural assimilation.

I think that Aerith is meant to parallel all that is holy, pure and good in religion as a whole. A lot of the Christian ideas are shared across cultures and religions. What could appear to be a baptism of Aerith at The Forgotten Capital (

Spoiler

though she is dead

) could just be any purification ritual as seen in many cults. I believe that

Spoiler

her death

(and her

Spoiler

entrance into the Lifestream as a force able to direct its energy

) turns her into the spiritual essence of religion itself. She is what is left of hope and faith. She was the last descendant of the Cetra, the people who really could converse with the planet, and who could also read the stars. All other people on the planet were the science (besides perhaps the people at Cosmo Canyon – though I’d take that to be a marrying of religion / spiritual understanding and science).

Aerith looked after a church, yes, and this church was the one and only decent place to be in the Slums (apart from her house, which was like a garden of paradise in itself). I believe that the Church in the Midgar slums was to represent current major Western religions (dominantly Christian) and architecture associated with them, and they were used in this context to light up a really grimy area where no hope would be found were it not for Aerith and the church.

The religion and culture of the Cetra, however, is much different. The Forgotten Capital was designed to be very different, and its design was possibly a reference to Atlantis, but I believe that it really symbolised fallen civilisations. There wasn’t much that screamed Christianity about this place, other than its obvious holiness which could be applied to any religion. That said, the presence of the giant floating fish found there could perhaps be argued as being another reference to Christianity (perhaps the only reference to Christ that I can see), but I don’t think that the place as a whole is remarkably Christian.

The Temple of the Ancients is a mixture of Egyptian and Aztec (and other cultures of central and south America with a similar style) architecture and the beliefs as far as we could tell were much, much different to Christianity.

Perhaps what this game was doing was representing older religions and cultures of Earth as the Ancients, but the current religious state of mankind on Earth with Aerith and the Midgar Church. I think that they could essentially be stating that nothing had really changed, and the core is the same, but the people change, and cultures change, morals change, and opinions regarding the Earth have changed. That Aerith returned to an ancient holy place in a forgotten city is testament to this, I believe, and it was here that

Spoiler

she died, and here that she returned to the Lifestream and eventually saved the planet

.

The fact that the church of Midgar Slums was relatively in ruin (and as far as I can remember it was the only church in the game), could mean to represent that religion has lost a lot of supporters to science. Interestingly, Hojo’s lab (and other scientific constructs – the reactors – the Upper Plate in general), were situated on the plate directly above the church. Science was literally overshadowing religion in Midgar, and the light that was religious hope was very scarce in the Slums below.

I think the message at the end of the game is pretty clear though. Science is great on the whole, but meaning, reason or purpose are what people desire more.

So really… I don’t think that Aerith is meant to be Christian as such, or that the religion of the planet is Christianity, but Aerith’s design is meant to closely resemble and reflect Christianity. Aerith, the Cetra and the church of the Slums are a mixed allegory for Earth’s religions over the ages. It could be that a church was included because it is quite a common thing for an RPG to have (often without even including a religion in a game at all), but I do believe there is something deeper with FF7 regarding Aerith and the church. I think that we are to merely look at it as a reflection of our own cultures and histories, which FF7 was largely about in so many ways (c.f Native Americans losing their land and culture to settlers and tourism and Nanaki’s tribe at Cosmo Canyon – how Nanaki was even captured by a curiously insane intellectual for research).

But perhaps I’m just looking too much into this.

 

[VinnieJones]

The church itself is probably based on a Christian one. But Aeris being in there all the time doesn't make her that religion; she cares more about the flowers than the church itself, she only goes there because it's the only place in the Slums where flowers can grow. She cared more about Cloud, Zack, soldiers and the Turks stepping on/ruining the flowers than people fighting inside the place.

She doesn't really care about the massive hole Cloud made in the roof either. The fact that the hole stays there in AC suggests that no one else in Midgar does either, so the place isn't a very active one (which may suggest that the religion it represents isn't being worshiped anymore, seeming as Midgar is the only place with a church).

She doesn't actually live in the church, plus liking to be inside a church doesn't necessarily make you Christian; people who enjoy Gospel music, including atheists, go inside churches to listen (for the Great Gospel part, I don't really have an opinion on that)

Seeming as you've only provided the AC pictures, here's the original VII version:

Is that not a Menorah-like (Jewish candle) object at the tip? Maybe the church has Jewish connections (probably not). Anyways I see no sign of a cross in or out of the place.

The architecture is just based on the Christian church. Wutai has buildings resembling the Buddhist temple; does that make Buddhism exist in the game?

For the praying, she prays to the Planet though doesn't she? She can communicate with the Planet, and hence asks for its help; not God.

The only God-related figure we've seen so far in the VII story is the Goddess in Crisis Core. I agree with TTT, until Jesus Christ is officially in the world of VII, Christianity does not exist.

 

[Bambi]

For the praying, she prays to the Planet though doesn't she? She can communicate with the Planet, and hence asks for its help; not God.

I think thats just a visual thing as well, when someone is praying, we generally know that they are talking in their head to someone that aint there, it just looks better than her sitting there or talking to herself and folk wondering wtf she is doing. To have the pose of praying, we know she is communicationg with the planet. It just had more visual impact her sat there eyes closed in prayer

Im poor at wording these things, but i think it was the best visual way to convey what she was up to

 

[Abstract Debauchery]

Soo... Once again, you've managed to ask a question, when you've already given yourself the answer, and refuse to take the possibility's of other opinions seriously because you've already made up your own mind.

Nice.

Anywho, back on topic. While I've mentioned that there are very, very many games that have Christian imagery as well as imagery of other religions, I can, going by your logic, assume that every character mentioned in those games are christian. However, you've done a right job of ignoring the majority of the posts in this thread, so I can only imagine that you'll do the same for any other counterpoint post.

 

[The Illusive Man]

To be honest I dont think she is christian, and could easily be mistaken for many different relgions, as the practices for many are similar, but I would say Aerith is more closely related to Old Fashioned Celtic Paganism.

The reasons why:

She worships the planet, this includes nature something many Pagan druids have done throughout the ages

At the city of the Ancients, the dropping into the water, can often be depicted as Pagan tradition of washing the body before it is placed upon the funeral pyre, of course, SE wouldn't have got a good reaction from burning a corpse so they stuck with the water burial in a position very similar to that of the Paganistic Norse during there funeral cerimonies.

She is a healer and caster, something that was widely believed was druids and witches were powerful healers and magic wielders

The Great Gospel, could also be taken as a Grimoire as it appears to be Aerith's personal book, many druids and witches have there own personal Grimoire and often name it other things, or refer to it differently to avoid discovery of the books secrets

Many of her scenes show her within nature, Druids spent there whole lives surrounding themselves with nature.

./just to throw in some more to discuss

 

[The Witch]

Argor251, good post. I disagree some, but good post.

The evidence is all circumstantial. The only thing you've proven is that there is Christian imagery in the game.

Imagery? C'mon, man. It's a Gothic designed Cathedral--that goes farther than imagery.

She's praying to the Planet.

No, she kneels on her knees and prays, then angels come to her aide. Aerith obviously knows what she's doing when she prays, which means she intentionally prays so that the angels will help her. Meaning she has faith in the angels and the "God" empowering the angels--doesn't get more clear than this.

None of that specifically makes you Christian. I dated a Jewish girl in college who was always asking angels for help.

That's because, Jewish people pray to God and Angels--meaning she was religious and didn't just do it for the heck of it. Which, you just proved my point, dude.

If I visit churches (or mosques or synagogues) as a guest, that doesn't make me a full-fledged member of that religion.

See, the church in VII, is called a Church, not a mosque, not a temple, not a synagogue. If it's called a church, looks like a church--it's because it's a church. You could try and argue Aerith was praying to Jewish angels but the holy house she loves to visit doesn't look like a synagogue at all.

Also, Aerith doesn't just "visit" the church, she loves it there.

What makes you a Christian is your belief in Jesus Christ. Simple as. Aeris is never shown as worshipping, praying to, or believing in Jesus Christ. Therefore, until she does, it cannot be said that she is Christian.

TTT, the Church Aerith loves to live in is associated with Jesus Christ and the Bible, that's the whole point in Churches being called... churches. And Aerith is seen praying on her knees to something she has faith in, leading to angels aiding her. Now, the angels, like I said already, look just like the Christian/Catholic angels--coincidence? I think not.

until Jesus Christ is officially in the world of VII, Christianity does not exist.

They have the words, damn, hell, and holy, they have churches, angels, and prayers--that's more than enough proof to show religions(if not only Christianity) in the world of FFVII.

The architecture is just based on the Christian church. Wutai has buildings resembling the Buddhist temple; does that make Buddhism exist in the game?

Yes... because there's Buddhist statues everywhere.

 

[The Illusive Man]

to add, I almost forgot about this:

Churches, as many of you have mentioned the building represents a Gothic style church, the orginal Goths were all devout paganists and built the Churches as shrines to house there fallen heroes and as places to pray to there gods before combat.

 

[Bambi]

To be honest I dont think she is christian, and could easily be mistaken for many different relgions, as the practices for many are similar, but I would say Aerith is more closely related to Old Fashioned Celtic Paganism.

The reasons why:

She worships the planet, this includes nature something many Pagan druids have done throughout the ages

At the city of the Ancients, the dropping into the water, can often be depicted as Pagan tradition of washing the body before it is placed upon the funeral pyre, of course, SE wouldn't have got a good reaction from burning a corpse so they stuck with the water burial in a position very similar to that of the Paganistic Norse during there funeral cerimonies.

She is a healer and caster, something that was widely believed was druids and witches were powerful healers and magic wielders

The Great Gospel, could also be taken as a Grimoire as it appears to be Aerith's personal book, many druids and witches have there own personal Grimoire and often name it other things, or refer to it differently to avoid discovery of the books secrets

Many of her scenes show her within nature, Druids spent there whole lives surrounding themselves with nature.

./just to throw in some more to discuss

And her name is an anagram of I Earth