Why does everybody have to bash XIII???

[The Witch]

^

There's a story to the game. You just have to play it.

The problem with the game, FOR ME, is that it has too many subplots. First we have to find Serah, then we have to deal with the drama of each character's past. I mean, I love the depth they wanted for each character and I enjoy the character's backgrounds in itself... but it's a little overwhelming, ye know? It's too much to focus on all at once. It's like, imagine there being 5 other team members with as dramatic as a life as Squall, Tidus, Terra, or Cloud all in the same game. It gets overwhelming

Other than that, I actually think the game has good VA besides Vanille the game play is tricky and interesting, the graphics are superb, and the story line IS there, it's just which one to focus on most is the hard part.

The best part is the overall comedic scenes in the game and the charm of each character. I always find myself laughing at the comedic scenes, which is weird... cuz the last time I laughed at something that was supposed to be funny in a FF title was when I played VII.

And Sazh and Fang have to be two of my favorite FF characters in a very very long time. They're both very original and have a lot of great qualities about them. Another favorite is Hope... and yes... Snow! I know people hate Snow... but he's supposed to be this corny guy and I think a lot of people don't understand that. he's not supposed to be this serious person, he's laid back and outgoing and cheerful... hating the game because of one character's attitude seems a little out there to me.

 

[Shu]

Honestly I dislike it because the developers seem to be more attracted to the combat and imagery than the actual story line and player control. Over the years it seems me that they are getting a bit more lazy each time coming up with a new story and as well as translating it for their audience.

Action Based RPG is not a typical FF RPG as opposed to Turn based. Ever since FFXII came out, it seems they are in love with trying to re-evaluate the actual combat system 20 times through and through, instead of taking a story writer and trying to come up with another adult title. They also put folks who way over dramatized their acting, something you would get out of a mickey mouse club.

Honestly I just believe as a whole the game's execution plan was awful. I mean it almost felt like a dungeon crawler due to the fact that you had to go backwards and fight things, just to level up to go forwards. It was overall lazy coding to do that. Why not think ahead and allow folks to explore early in the game, instead of at the end game?

Why take away airships? The idea was working since FFI, to revolutionize the game so much that it barely has any FF elements, that's poor. I hardly recognize this as a game anymore. If they want linear, then make the characters linear then. Maybe make a mage class, a tank class, a healer class.. not someone who can almost be adept at all with all the paradigms. I hated having to reconfigure the crap out of the paradigms over and over and over, and that if you don't put Hope in your party at the early parts due to haste, there are parts that are almost impossible to pass unless of course you way over leveled.

As a game, it was pretty good stand alone. Though as an FF game, meh. To me they have pretty much killed off FF ever since FFX-2. They don't want to offer folks a repeat performance.. they don't want to give folks the ability to do limit bursts, but they will allow them to do "stagger". The summons.. I don't have much to say.. but meh.

The writing was.. come on. Snow? He was an awful support role till the very end.. and even then.

Spoiler

Hope blaming Snow for his mom's death? The whole story wanting revenge and then.. of course turns around and treats him like a bro at the very end? meh.. way to convenient and typical. All that work to save Serah.. Thankfully I played till chapter 11.. otherwise I would have never found things I liked about the game.

Chapter 13 was about as interesting as it could get with all the side quests. Though by that time.. I was like.. well too late. They should have made those available through the entire game (aka able to do them all, not leave quite a bit off).

 

[Climhazzard]

What a post Shu. I feel exactly as you do with how SE are taking our beloved series. It seems the graphics matter more to the story these days with each new Final Fantasy game. Don't get me wrong, FF has always had impressive cgi cutscenes, yet it feels they're so focused on that, that they're forgetting the more important aspects.

I feel SE has alienated it's core fanbase overall. They not only seem more fixated on getting the appeal of the American market (than their own), but by changing Final Fantasy to suit it, and a telling factor is how Tales has overtaken them in sales in Japan.

I also feel they could learn a few things from the game that's beating them.

"If it's not broken, don't fix it"

Tales games haven't really changed apart from minor tweaks here and there. Instead with each new Final Fantasy that comes out, they're drastically changing more and more. Sometimes I feel as if I don't even know if I'm playing a Final Fantasy game anymore these days.

And that is truely sad.

 

[ggpwntthxbai]

Although I agree with the overwhelming majority of people in this thread that have voiced disdain with the lack of a compelling story in FFXIII, my main point of contention with the game is the lack of control you have over your characters in and out of battle. Here are the issues as I see them:

1) You have limited control over what abilities your characters learn and how they develop statistically.

2) The abilities you learn all seem just about the same. A Ravager's spells all just do a bit of damage and bump the chain gauge up and none of them really seem to stand out in power or in functionality. In previous installments I looked forward to learning new abilities as they proved more powerful and more interesting than the old ones; in FFXIII I didn't really care.

3) Battle strategies are severely hamstrung by the lack of an ability to control your characters; this is only compounded by the lack of diverse abilities.

4) The chain gauge, whilst potentially an interesting mechanic, proved to make battles even more one dimensional. Every single boss battle was buff/debuff -> build the chain gauge -> do as much damage as possible before stagger runs out and heal when necessary. Rinse and repeat and don't forget to mash 'x'.

5) It was prohibitively difficult to significantly improve your characters and collect items before the Archylte Steppe, which was basically the end of the game.

These issues made combat and whatever ephemeral sense of character development FFXIII had extremely dull.

 

[Squid]

I bash this game because I found it terrible in almost every way.

I put 30 hours into it before I gave up and sealed it away in it's case never to be seen again. I found the characters bland and annoying and unlikeable, the story did not grab at my attention at all, the battle system was a snooze-fest, and the maps were so unexciting, there was literally no where to explore.

These things put me off and these things made for a terrible game to me. People can express their disappointment in a game they have been looking forward to if it turns out to be utter trash in their opinion just like people can praise it if they found it great and exciting. I don't see the problem

I will say though that it has lovely graphics, the voice acting (for the most part) was well done and I didn't have an issue with the sound track... just everything else sucked balls

 

[Basch1990]

There are plenty of games that are entertaining and have decent stories... FFXIII is a shameless plug trying to hit the 40 hour mark with a battle system that's slower than frozen molasses.

Honestly, the battle system is the number 1 reason why I will not even give this game a chance. After 20 hours of just staring at a battle screen for 5 minutes every time I entered a battle, sitting in frost novas and being globaled with shatter combos was more entertaining.

wow dude... i get into a battle and im out pretty quick so either you are doing something wrong or you just fail at XIII and the game was about 50 hours long so honestly just get your paradigms right and try again cause you apparently dont know how it works

 

[Basch1990]

^

There's a story to the game. You just have to play it.

The problem with the game, FOR ME, is that it has too many subplots. First we have to find Serah, then we have to deal with the drama of each character's past. I mean, I love the depth they wanted for each character and I enjoy the character's backgrounds in itself... but it's a little overwhelming, ye know? It's too much to focus on all at once. It's like, imagine there being 5 other team members with as dramatic as a life as Squall, Tidus, Terra, or Cloud all in the same game. It gets overwhelming

Other than that, I actually think the game has good VA besides Vanille the game play is tricky and interesting, the graphics are superb, and the story line IS there, it's just which one to focus on most is the hard part.

The best part is the overall comedic scenes in the game and the charm of each character. I always find myself laughing at the comedic scenes, which is weird... cuz the last time I laughed at something that was supposed to be funny in a FF title was when I played VII.

And Sazh and Fang have to be two of my favorite FF characters in a very very long time. They're both very original and have a lot of great qualities about them. Another favorite is Hope... and yes... Snow! I know people hate Snow... but he's supposed to be this corny guy and I think a lot of people don't understand that. he's not supposed to be this serious person, he's laid back and outgoing and cheerful... hating the game because of one character's attitude seems a little out there to me.

T_T omg you so get it... thank the heavens

 

[Basch1990]

if you don't put Hope in your party at the early parts due to haste, there are parts that are almost impossible to pass unless of course you way over leveled.

thats actually not true... i never used hope unless i was forced to and i never had to go backwards to lvl up... i went straight through the game never once turning around... its all about the paradigm set and if you dont get it right then try a different set... that was the whole point... i beat the game without having to grind at all

 

[KoRny]

Anyone who thinks FFXIII was a truly great game is way too easily amused. I think kids now days are just impressed with the beautiful visuals and graphics. I think they're just mezmerized by it the whole time they just sail through a game that's hastily thrown together in every other aspect. None of the characters in this game are likable. Watching FFXIII's character's storys unfold is like watching a soap opera with 4th grade dialog. Every single line Snow says is cheesy. The overall dialog of the entire game is on the same maturity level as Pokemon, or Power Rangers.
Other than that, this game just lacked classic Final Fantasy elements like, towns/shops, open world, controlable airships, original looking characters, and secret items/characters/quests.
I wouldn't have a problem with the battling system except your party's AI isn't smart enough to justify only letting you control one person.
I also enjoyed the difficulty and required strategy to defeat many of the post-game missions.

 

[kratoscar2008]

The hate is because this tittle represent everything that a final fantasy shouldnt be.

for example people were exceptical when FF7 came out since the game was futuristic and got rid of the medieval setting but the game was accepted at the end because it still had some of FF loved features:

A good story: sure it has flaws but unless you are a fanboy of the worst you have a story that make you wait what is around the corner.

Exploration: If something made FF memorable was the chance to explore a beautiful world and do whatever you want. first they confine you to follow a linear path in the history then they give you (Normally an Airship) a device of transportation so you can freely do as you please.

Turn based Battle system: This is a FF staple that shouldnt never dissappear, while in 13 the BS look flashy it doesnt really let you enjoy the battle, lets say your favorite FF battle (Mine is Sin battle in FFX) and you want to enjoy the battle at your own pace and hear the song that play and it feels epic because your attention is on the meaning of the battle itself. Now we have the action based battle system, it sure works in games like star Ocean but in FF no because FF had always given us glorious boss battles were we can really feel that the battle has meaning.

Player Control: The FF are Role playing games, and as such we must feel that we are in the world of the game and for that we must be constantly immersed in the game and for that any action that the game follow must be because we as a one entity with the game world are responsible for its development.

epic Creatures: Malboro, odin, Shiva and more are beasts that were part of FF since a very long time while FF7 and FF8 had a futuristic feel, the enemies and summons still had a fantasy feel, i cant say the same for XIII, my god just look at Shiva who came with the idea to make her a Motorcycle aniway?

Towns: Where it went the feeling of reaching a town and visit its armor, weapon and item shops to see what new gears could aid us in our Quest?

There are more but i will summarize the topic question in one sentence:

Why does everybody have to bash XIII???

R: Because it deserves it.

 

[Lord_Jaroh]

Well, I just finished the game.

What complete and utter shit. There is nothing redeeming about the game at all, from the characters to the story to the design to the battle system. Nothing about this game was good.

If this is what Square has descended to, I would rather them close up shop than continue on down their current path. My god...I cannot understand how this game actually made it to production. If I were involved in it I would be embarrassed to have my name attached to the project!

Hopefully they can learn from their mistakes because I can't imagine it getting any worse...

 

[JasonsBasement]

First off - I enjoyed FFXIII. I didn't say like.

Before I go off into this I would also like to clear a few things up:
"FFXIII doesn't contain any of the elements of other Final Fantasy games"
- You are right - They could just make the same game over and over again and people would be just as pissed because they just keep copying the same thing over and over. Never mind that it has summons, magic, weapons, armor, items, chocobos, a customizable party and different jobs.
"There are no towns/exploration or open world"
- There are towns - your characters just don't go into them because they are RUNNING FROM THE LAW. The characters in the game are outlaws, they wouldn't just pop into a town and start talking to everyone. Exploration - I'll give you the fact that there is a lot less of it, but I feel like they just stripped out the mindless walking around. When I think back to older Final Fantasy titles I think about walking all around a giant world map, only to find there is nothing to be found. There are plenty of side areas - sadly they are all in Chapter 11 and beyond. Lastly - Open world? There is only ONE Final Fantasy game that fits the 'open world' genre - FFXII. All other Final Fantasy games are linear, they just disguise it.

Onto the game -
What I hate:
The Crystarium
- I was excited for it - I thought it was going to be similar to FFX. It's not.
Changing characters every 5 minutes in the first 10 chapters
- Luckily, everyone gains EXP.
Having my hand held for the first 25 hours of game play
- This gets better on repeated playthroughs cause you just skip tutorials.

What I love:
The Paradigm System
- This is how you control more than one character - It's not about assigning each command for each character then waiting to see what the enemy does. You have to look at your characters and stack them appropriately so that you can cycle through Paradigms to be successful.
The World
- Two different planets? Sci-Fi and swords? Crazy huge wild animals? This world was fantastic - I loved it.
Lightning
- She is bad ass. All Cloud fanboys should love her.
Grinding
- Isn't this what half of Final Fantasy is? Grinding monsters for items/advancements. I still play this game trying to build items to try out different Synergist Abilities.

Why do people bash it?
It was way to straight forward for people. I agree it was a bit for me too - but worst piece of shit ever? Comeon! Just get to chapter 10 as fast as you can and enjoy the rest of the game.

 

[Sheechiibii]

Just get to chapter 10 as fast as you can and enjoy the rest of the game.

Just had to say - get to chapter 10 and enjoy the rest of the game? There are only 13 chapters, that's not saying very much for how much enjoyment you can get out of the game if you've to endure the first 9 chapters to get anything worth-while.

I liked your post though for once I agreed a lot with someone sticking up for XIII - personally I hated pretty much everything in the game, but you made a lot of fair points, not that it really makes the game any better, but it makes me have hope for the future ff games.

Xx..xX

 

[klauss]

Personally, I didn't like the characters in the game. They really lacked interesting personalities, but yeah, I don't see how the linearity of the game really affected the experience of the overall gameplay. I guess, because of the how it failed to meet the audiences' expectations, the linearity of the game, is just something to pick out on, in addition to all the other disappointments in the game. Nevertheless, I still love the game. I don't know what it is. It's probably the atmosphere of the game, the product of the combination of a an outstanding soundtrack and spectacular visuals, is probably the only thing that draws me to the game.

 

[john13081980]

i don't have a clue why people slate ff13 and ff13-2 they are fun to play i showed ff13-2 to my mate he when out and brought it that day i'm know played ff13 through 4 times not bord with it and im know playing 13-2 for the 3rd time yes it would have been nice if there had been more levels but apart from that what's the problem it fun. why say that it nothing like any of the ff games if it was people whould be saying that they never changed the game. if you like playing the other game if it ff1 or ff10 then play them and stop going on about it.

 

[Sheechiibii]

Personally, I didn't like the characters in the game. They really lacked interesting personalities, but yeah, I don't see how the linearity of the game really affected the experience of the overall gameplay. I guess, because of the how it failed to meet the audiences' expectations, the linearity of the game, is just something to pick out on, in addition to all the other disappointments in the game. Nevertheless, I still love the game. I don't know what it is. It's probably the atmosphere of the game, the product of the combination of a an outstanding soundtrack and spectacular visuals, is probably the only thing that draws me to the game.

For me the linearity was just one more dissapointment along with pretty much everything else. If it had been the only thing wrong I wouldn't mind, but it wasn't, it was everything. I agree with you about the characters but I also didn't like that there was no world, there were no npcs, there was no choice in character development, even the weapon system was heavily flawed, the battle system I hated, the summons were ridiculously hard to get and pretty much useless in battle, the limited sidequests and how they were all just fighting monsters, how there were so little variation in the monsters. Then I didn't like the linearity or the character development or the story.

So I do complain about the linearity, but if the game was good apart from that I wouldn't complain about it. The linearity is bad because it takes all sense of adventure away, you can't go hunting for treasure or anything like that, and because it means there's no sense of world. People say that it makes sense because they're known across the world as being l'cie and so have to run. However, look at FFX, half way through the game you're being hunted as criminals and known throughout Spira, yet you can still go anywhere you want, sure sometimes you have to fight people but that's fine, you've still got a world to explore. It's an excuse. There felt like there was no world in XIII because it was all corridors, the only open world you saw was basically like pretty background you could never reach.

 

[Sheechiibii]

And I cant play Lightning Returns because then I would have to play the first two games as well.

They did say that LR could be played as a stand alone game. I didn't buy XIII-2 but I did play the demo. I just didn't want to play it though, mostly because it was a continuation of a story and characters that I didn't like and the demo didn't entice me. Hopefully LR really can be played as a stand alone game and then I might get it. Depends what further information comes out though. I was pretty dissapointed to find out that all the characters are still alive, I was hoping it would be just Lightning. It doesn't look like it will be very stand alone but we'll see I guess. Plus they've spoiled the ending already.

 

[Ohri-Jin]

Wow amazing arguments people from both fans and dislikers of FFXIII. Im just wondering so this is what SE got to endure, this feedback. Now did they implement these great suggestions in FFXIII-2? How many fans wanted a sequel anyway? And now FFXIII-2 was better but not perfect so Lightning Returns.

Seriously people this is exactly why I never played FFXIII. The chars alone sickens me never mind other aspects about the game. Thus I wont play the sequel either. And I cant play Lightning Returns because then I would have to play the first two games as well.

I didnt like FFXIII-2 demo, felt like a weak ass kingdom hearts copy cat.

If SE wants to go action rpg I vote they use kingdom hearts/dragon age/rogue Galaxy battlesystem more often.
Characters and story is my thing. Shit look at dragon age it had shitty ass graphics but shit it was such an epic game.






SE presented me two cupcakes -> a pink one with candy sparklings (ffxIII) and a chocolate brown fudge cookie dough one (Versus)

Sorry you can have the sweet glacy one, chocolate one is out of reach. Well I hate sugarcoated cupcakes, cause its filled with processed colours and too much sugar.

In my head I worded it way better. I might have failed a bit there but you catch my drift right?

 

[Sheechiibii]

I personally do not understand the hate for this game, While I admit it has flaws, it is no way near as bad as people have made out. I for one found the game exhilarating from start to finish.

PROS:
+ Characters with Charisma - This in itself is a miracle after the drab character's from Final Fantasy XII, the majority who had no motive or purpose to be within the story at all. I can not pin point anything remarkable in XII, While in XIII I can think of many moments which we're very emotive, I can't be the only one who wept during the conflict between Hope & Snow when it exploded at Palumporum.

+ A story that progressed - Once again, after Final Fantasy XII's slow progression of it's story XIII's frequent cutscenes was very refreshing. XII you would travel through landscapes/ temples from 5 - 10 hours with no progression in the story. Even when you entered a new town you would just go straight through it. While XIII had cutscenes every 30 minutes at least where the characters would talk to one another, which really built their characters.

+ Battle system - I have to say, I found XIII's battle system to be one of the most engaging in the series. Most people seem to miss the point of the Paradigm system. It's not so much focused on what attacks you use, it's more about having the right paradigm pack for the right moment. I found myself on guard every battle which is more than I can say for some previous FF's. Then of course you have the stagger system too, which was a really addictive system.

+ The Art Direction & Graphics - It has to be noted, I still think XIII is one of the best looking games this gen, the graphics were far better than even XIII-2. I really liked the sci-fi route of XIII's art design, but then I enjoyed VIII for the same reason. It was just visually striking.

CONS:

- Hiding the depth of the story in the Datalog - A lot of the details we're hidden in these datalogs, which made everything seem very vague, which is why it is hard to connect to XIII's story. Nothing about the God's is ever explained properly in the custscenes. I should not have to read up datalogs or novella's just to make up for a poor presentation of the story.

- Lack of a personal connection between the party and the antagonist - Like Vayne, Barthanderlus had no personal connection with any of the party, many of the best FF Villains have had such a connection to the lead character tend to be the most memorable (Cloud/Sephiroth, Tidus/Jetch etc.) XIII-2 did make up for this with Noel & Caius Which was one of the best features of the game.

- Battle system - While I liked it, there we're problems... When the party leader dies it's game over... even when another party member has revive! This was a big mistake solved once again in XIII-2.

- The Weapons system - It was just really plain and it required far too much time to gather all the times need for the upgrades.

As I have said before, I liked XIII while it is around the middle of my FF list, I still regard it as one of the best games I have played this gen. I think another reason for the hate is that they have lingered on XIII for so long now. One of the joys of Final Fantasy is that they're all different when a new Final Fantasy comes along it brings a new world along with it. Sequels do not offer this experience & While I generally enjoyed XIII-2 it was not up to the FF standard in my opinion.

I guess it's just up to personal opinion. The things you've noted as pros I would have noted as cons with the exception of the graphics, but the graphics just frustrated me because it shows you a beautiful world you have no access to, and I knew that everything else was bad because of the focus on the graphics. I thought the chracters were bland, cliche and had basically no development over the course of the story, they seemed exactly the same at the end as at the begining and despite the time spent with each other I still felt like they had no connections to each other. I hated the story, I thought it was boring and confusing (mainly because the important parts were written in a datalog instead of told through the story). It just felt nonsensical for the magority of the game and the characters were given no background before 13 days prior to the game. I hated the battle system because all it was, literally, was pressing x as fast as possible. Sure you could shift paradigms but really, all that did was change the class of your characters and the rest played itself and a lot of the time they didn't even do what I wanted them to do. The whole point of fights in XIII was how fast you could mash X, lets give you points for how fast you can kill an enemy instead of how well you strategise to kill it and actually work for it yourself.

I can't understand how people could like these things because I don't. But I understand that people have different opinions and while I might hate something others might love it. In VIII the draw system is massively hated upon, yet I love it personally. So I think what it mostly comes down to is just personal opinion. I base most of my opinion of a game in it's story and characters, I can honestly say that if the story and characters had appealed to me then even with all the other dissapointments, I'd still probably love the game. Same with the reverse, I wasn't very impressed with XII's story and characters, but the rest of the game was so fantastic I was able to look past it. The reason I absolutely loath XIII is because I can't find a single thing to like about it at all I wish I could, I don't enjoy disliking it, I'd love to be interested enough to want to play XIII-2, I wish I could. I want to play it again to see if I find it better the second time round (like I did with XII) but I'm not sure I could stand it long enough to get passed 10 minutes.

 

[mrdaggoth]

Final Fantasy XIII gets a lot of negative heat because of players that are used to the more classic elements of Final Fantasy. I am one of those players.
When I see a Final Fantasy title, I expect there to be very unlinear gameplay, ways to customize and build relationships with characters, easter eggs and other things like abilities and equipment to find, and also really cool looking boss battles. The music makes a big difference for me.

Final Fantasy XIII abandoned a lot of the older elements. XIII is more like an arcade game to me than an RPG, just because there is a strict line that you have to follow and the battles consisted of switching back and forth between paradigm shifts. instead of strategically controlling each party member. The characters were unlikable as well. The only character that I truly appreciated was Sahz. Lightning was arrogant. Hope was depressed. Snow was dumb. Oerba was also annoying, and Fang was totally faking that accent.