[03/02] Square Enix Profits jump

[Tifa]

I'm glad they're making enough to stay afloat. While some of their more recent work has been extremely disappointing, I'm still hoping they wake up and start making good games again.

 

[Tifa]

Hope springs eternal.

I admit it's been difficult this past decade to keep hope alive with Square Enix, but they sometimes surprise me with really good games. (The 3rd Birthday and Crisis Core blew me away~)

 

[Nocturne]

While I agree with Crisis Core, The 3rd Birthday was absolute garbage.

Nier was great, War of the Lions was good, and FFXIII/XIII-2 go from decent to good. SO4 was good gameplay wise, story wise, not so much since it was very un Star Ocean-ish.

 

[Ohri-Jin]

LMAO I didnt even know SE also published SO4 TLH or I just forgot?
I would like to see a full list of all the games etc. SE really publishes and how much income they get from that.

Merchandise, what properties SE owns and what they publish and manga store too.
They also published Rogue Galaxy and several anime non FF related.

SE has a lot of different areas where they get income from, but how much really...



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_Enix

 

[Linnaete]

Good news for Wada. They will need as many profit jumps as they possibly can. If Square hadn't acquired Eidos when it did, the company would likely be in a far worse state than it is today. Eidos practically saved their arses, and Square-Enix Japan will continue to need Eidos as one of its company wings to help keep them afloat after the disastrous FFXIV MMO. I have no idea how much money they have lost with the FFXIV fiasco that is so far showing no actual signs of ending while the 2.0 version is still a while away to go yet, and the cutting of the servers from 17 to 10.

As a cost-cutting measure, making FFXIII-2 and DLC installments make a lot of sense, as much as I don't like it. Until SE makes up for what it lost on FFXIV on various sequels, publishing practices and Eidos support, it's not exactly getting away from the red.

 

[Richard B Riddick]

@Richard B Riddick

I get what you're saying about Pixar, but keep in mind that these movies usually are many years in development, longer than most games. That's why all their movies are so successful -- they literally can spend up to three, four, or more years on all the details.

Also, keep in mind that Pixar and the like will bring in new writers now and then to revitalize their stuff. SE isn't doing that. And remember the distance between sequels -- Toy Story 3 came out TEN YEARS after the first movie. We're expecting a new Final Fantasy at least every other year.

I think it's safe to say that anyone's quality would begin to degrade under that kind of ridiculously high expectations and pressure.

Also, not all of Pixar and Dreamworks movies are 100% loved. They've made some movies I love and others I don't really care for. They don't have universal appeal.

In any case, comparing SE to Pixar or Dreamworks is definitely unfair. Not only are there much different expectations in each, they are from totally different industries that have totally different goals and desires to meet.

We expect a movie to last about and hour and a half. We expect a game to last 50-80 hours. Comparing the two different industries is incredibly unfair.

What SE simply needs to do is pace themselves a bit better and bring in some fresh blood.

It's also a bit unfair to say that the battle system isn't being revitalized. That's pants on head retarded. The battle system is always being revitalized, and I think they're doing a damn fine job of it, too. Can't fault them there.

And you say that they are recycling themes and plots: I'm sorry to say that there's only a handful of actual plots to be had out there. Repetition is BOUND to happen, sooner or later. Also, characters will tend to repeat because there's just so many variations on the human nature you can make before you have no where else to go.

Sheesh. Give 'em a break, you guys.

Would you believe I watched a documentary about Pixar entitled: The Pixar Story & did a tiny bit of research on them a few years ago?

BTW, here's a list of Pixar movies and their release dates: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pixar_films

They crank out movies as close to the speed that Square Enix cranks out games... With the first Toy Story they actually re-wrote the entire script (with storyboards) in something like 2 weeks, which is pretty amazing.

A game might last 40-80 hours. But, the total amount of FMV could amount to 1-5 hours or less. There's a good deal of time consumed by random battles, mazes & other things.

What seperates Pixar's approach from Square Enix and Disney's is Pixar attempts to do quality work with everything they do. Square Enix and Disney rely too heavily on sequels and re-makes. They do quality work with Mulan and the Little Mermaid. Then, they cash in on low quality sequels with Mulan 2 and Little Mermaid 2.

Square Enix does the same thing to a certain degree with their re-makes and sequels. It could be considered a blatant profiteering scheme and attempt to cut production & development costs via re-using existing media, etc.

Pixar goes all out for quality on everything they do.

Square Enix, Disney and profit centric operations focus on "monetizing existing franchises" and "cost cutting measures" in an attempt to boost profits. This approach often has an unintentional side effect of decreasing quality and originality.

I'm not necessarily buying the explanation that there are "only a handful of actual plots" that exist.

There's always someone who comes along eventually who redefines things and changes the way the game is played.

If anything I think SE is moreso about money these days than they are about making quality games.

There had never really been a sequel to a final fantasy until after the square enix merger. Now, you have a sequel to every game. FFXII-2 and FFXIII-2. This is generally what people mean when they say SE is getting away from producing quality titles and focusing more on cost cutting measures in an attempt to boost profit...

I can go more into detail, if you want.

What really sucks is SE seems to have given up on taking risks and become ultra conservative. They don't make games that are innovative or original anymore due to them being too concerned about what would happen if a title didn't sell. Hence, they've condemned themselves to mediocrity being paralyzed by the prospect of failure.. Something like that.. Yeh.

I would like to see a full list of all the games etc. SE really publishes and how much income they get from that.

Merchandise, what properties SE owns and what they publish and manga store too.
They also published Rogue Galaxy and several anime non FF related.

List of IP: http://www.square-enix.com/eng/group/index.html

Earnings transcript: http://www.square-enix.com/eng/ir/index.html

 

[Dragon Mage]

They crank out movies as close to the speed that Square Enix cranks out games... With the first Toy Story they actually re-wrote the entire script (with storyboards) in something like 2 weeks, which is pretty amazing.

Dude. These things are in planning for years. Are you quite sure you're counting everything? Not just production?

Yeah. That's what I thought.


Now, we expect a new FF game about every other year or so. That gives SE about 2 years to go from pre-production, go through production, and finish up post-production in a little under 2 years, with no bugs or flaws in there whatsoever.

Let's compare this time-frame to what Pixar's established release dates are.

For consistency's sake, let's look at sequels only. Surprising as it may seem, Pixar is big enough to have multiple teams on different projects. SE isn't quite that big.

Toy Story 1 -- 1995

Toy Story 2 -- 1998

Toy Story 3 -- 2010

So, just with the one movie, where they could reuse and recycle animated models from the first or second movie, there's still at least 4 years between releases.

But, that's just one trilogy, you say. It could just be a fluke, you say. Okay, fine. Let's look at another.

Cars 1 -- 2006

Cars 2 -- 2011

That's 5 years. 5 years of nothing but time to go over all those little details, to refine and refine and refine and critique and refine.

And you expect SE to do the same thing in just 18 months? With just as much perfect quality in their games that Pixar can achieve with 3 times the amount of time to work on it?

Excuse me, I think I speak on the behalf of all the SE employees when I say, fuck that.

Also, Pixar has only been doing this for 14 years. And in those 14 years, they've only produced 12 movies. Keep in mind that they have multiple teams to work on this and it's all staggered very nicely that's pretty good.

The Final Fantasy series has been around since 1987. It's a 25-year-old series. And in those 25 years, they have produced about 39 games across multiple platforms. And many of those games are very, very good. Downright incredible sometimes.

So I think you're out of line to talk shit about SE not producing quality games. Considering the typical time-frame they have and how well they do within that time, it's fucking amazing.

Have some respect.

If anything I think SE is moreso about money these days than they are about making quality games.

There had never really been a sequel to a final fantasy until after the square enix merger. Now, you have a sequel to every game. FFXII-2 and FFXIII-2. This is generally what people mean when they say SE is getting away from producing quality titles and focusing more on cost cutting measures in an attempt to boost profit...

OH SWEET JESUS.

A COMPANY THAT WANTS TO MAKE MONEY.

HOW DARE THEY!?

Surprising as it may seem, but the company doesn't last very long if they don't make money. They cannot endlessly take risks and risks and risks with impunity. They must play it safe sometimes. That's business. That's how it works.

In case you didn't know -- and I'll use a movie-like example to follow your model -- sequels are a safe bet. And in the shitty economy we have everyone wants to play it safe. This past year was pretty much nothing but sequels in Hollywood, or if they are originals, they are clearly set up for further installments.

SE is being smart. They are riding out the economic storm.

Deal with it.

I'd rather have a safe and conservative SE than one that obliterated itself because it fucked up its own business plan by producing flop after flop.

What really sucks is SE seems to have given up on taking risks and become ultra conservative. They don't make games that are innovative or original anymore due to them being too concerned about what would happen if a title didn't sell. Hence, they've condemned themselves to mediocrity being paralyzed by the prospect of failure.. Something like that.. Yeh.

Protip: All companies do this when the economy blows harder than a Sonic game. They get stingy with the cash and start playing it real safe.

SE is nothing new.

I don't seen anyone else complaining about the newest Knights of the Old Republic game, or Mass Effect 3. Jesus, lay off SE, will ya?

I'm not necessarily buying the explanation that there are "only a handful of actual plots" that exist.

Then you should open your mind a bit.

There was even a book written on it. It's called, the Seven Basic Plots.

When you get right down to it, everything else is just variations on one theme or another.

Heh, anyone ever compare Star Wars to the Eragon/Inheritance Series to you before?

Perfect example.