[03/02] Square Enix Profits jump

[ANGRYWOLF]

during its last period in large part to Deus EX and FFXIII-2:

source:http://www.gamespot.com/news/6349731.html

shrugs.

My guess is Deus Ex came from Eidos in large part and not from Square per se, whereas it took little to make XIII-2 as they used left over materials from XIII so the cost of making the game was considerably less than if they had had to start from scratch.

 

[greenyxi]

I'm personally really glad that their profits have been pretty positive.
I honestly though that the FF14 situation would have hit them hard, but it seems like they had their eggs in enough baskets to ride that one out.

Good on you Square

 

[Big Casino]

Surely theyre profits are bound to go up though after releasing games?

 

[greenyxi]

Surely theyre profits are bound to go up though after releasing games?

I'm no sales expert, but wouldn't that only be the case if the games sold well and were not too expensive to make in the first place?

I heard that FF13-2 sold badly in Japan, regardless of what this article says, so I'm a bit confused now :/

 

[Big Casino]

They make the most money after release. Theyre bank account is obviously gunna go up on release day. Final fantasy games sell well despite the fact theyre shite now. The loyal fans have hope.

 

[greenyxi]

They make the most money after release. Theyre bank account is obviously gunna go up on release day. Final fantasy games sell well despite the fact theyre shite now. The loyal fans have hope.

But having money in the bank doesn't mean that they're making money after taking off the costs. Lots of games companies make a loss on release, because of high costs as well as low sales on other games they've made.

I'd consider this to especially be the case with a company like Square where their games are quite hit and miss lately, so to think that they are making a good enough profit to cover their bad games is a relief for me.

So yeah, money in bank does not equal profit...for more reasons than I've stated.

lol maybe I'm nitpicking

 

[Big Casino]

you should write to square enix and tell them to stop making shitty games.

All that money and all these shitty games. Whatcha gunna do?

 

[Richard B Riddick]

Total net sales during the period came in at ¥95.74 billion ($1.26 billion), down 2.5 percent from the ¥98.18 ($1.28 billion) recorded a year prior.

A significant chunk of that total stemmed from the company's Digital Entertainment business unit, which posted ¥53.7 billion ($704 million) for the period, a rise of 6.2 percent from the year prior.

Sales are down 2.5% from last year lol

Their digital entertainment biz may have saved them.

 

[Rydrum2112]

Net income can be tricky to use as an indicator, it could be that they didn't carry most of the development costs, but wrote them off last year. Then the final touches and games come out this year- which is what I would guess since they were down last year but up this year. But I am not that familiar with SE's financials- so who knows?

 

[Nocturne]

Man, some of you guys need to take some business/economics classes. When it says sales were done 2.5% from last year, that doesnt mean they necessarily lost money. Net sales could be down, but net profit most likely went up to faster development cycles and just cost to make some of the games (aka FFXIII-2) were much lower than previously. It's just common sense that FFXIII cost more to make since it was in development longer than it's sequel.

Good for them though. More money they have the better. And FFXIII-2 didnt sell terribly in Japan. They didnt ship as many, hence they didnt expect to sell as much as other entries in the series. They almost are sold out of their shipment in Japan for both the -PS3 and 360. Plus it shipped in the US and Europe as well so it's only going to give them even more money, not to mention how much the DLC will sell, and believe me, it will.

Now they just need to use that money wisely

 

[Channizard]

SE has a lot of divisions going on in their company, and while gaming is their leader, merchandising comes in at a high second (or third). Their merchandising prices have risen this last year over their new Play Arts KAI lines, supposedly better articulation and beautiful paint work from previous lines. However with those positives came a high negative which was poor quality.. a lot kept breaking. A lot of toy sites reviewed new products and scared people off of buying them.. saying that a 50-60$ price tag isn't worth a figure that loses an arm upon unboxing.

That said, other than XIII-2 and Deus Ex, SE hasn't put out any neew game worth note over the last couple years (bar XIII original)... so of course profits will be up, but not drastically to cover their previous losses.

 

[Richard B Riddick]

Man, some of you guys need to take some business/economics classes. When it says sales were done 2.5% from last year, that doesnt mean they necessarily lost money. Net sales could be down, but net profit most likely went up to faster development cycles and just cost to make some of the games (aka FFXIII-2) were much lower than previously. It's just common sense that FFXIII cost more to make since it was in development longer than it's sequel.

Good for them though. More money they have the better. And FFXIII-2 didnt sell terribly in Japan. They didnt ship as many, hence they didnt expect to sell as much as other entries in the series. They almost are sold out of their shipment in Japan for both the -PS3 and 360. Plus it shipped in the US and Europe as well so it's only going to give them even more money, not to mention how much the DLC will sell, and believe me, it will.

Now they just need to use that money wisely

Don't defend SE's business model, plz.

It goes without saying their rapid development model and re-use of media & digital artifacts from previous games is likely to cut costs and boost profit margins despite declining sales.

Over recycling and lack of innovation and originality represent the largest complaints about quality control and over reliance upon brand name franchise in regard to SE's development process.

No one said declining sales implies SE is losing money, btw.

Not sure what you're talking about?

 

[Dragon Mage]

you should write to square enix and tell them to stop making shitty games.

All that money and all these shitty games. Whatcha gunna do?

Hey, they aren't shitty games! They look AWESOME! Well, they may be shitty. Still awesome looking! But I'm not sure about the shitty part. The games are definitely gorgeous and shiny, and that must... make them...

*watches a trailer for FF13-2*

Ooooh. Pretty.

 

[Starships]

Hey, they aren't shitty games! They look AWESOME! Well, they may be shitty. Still awesome looking! But I'm not sure about the shitty part. The games are definitely gorgeous and shiny, and that must... make them...

*watches a trailer for FF13-2*

Ooooh. Pretty.

Graphics are not everything ya' know. Please tell me you're joking.

- On topic

Surprising considering Final Fantasy XIII-2 wasn't selling too good when it first came out, though Deus EX probably saved their butts.

 

[Richard B Riddick]

Hey, they aren't shitty games! They look AWESOME! Well, they may be shitty. Still awesome looking! But I'm not sure about the shitty part. The games are definitely gorgeous and shiny, and that must... make them...

*watches a trailer for FF13-2*

Ooooh. Pretty.

Hey, stop that! You're making me want to watch a FFXIII-2 trailer, too! Its the lemming effect!

Graphics are a main selling point. Most will base the choice of whether or not they purchase a game on trailer and graphics. Thus, I guess it makes sense to focus more on graphics than story, plot, character development and all those other beancounter metrics people like myself swear by... It may be lame considering they don't really mean anything...

 

[Martel]

When it comes to FFXIII-2, I would argue that graphics are the ONLY selling point. It's not like the game has a coherent plot, a proper cast of characters, anything even remotely resembling a soundtrack, any differentiating elements in its "gameplay" that we haven't seen before a million times elsewhere, or...anything else. It's just one big pretty mess. Like the sort of thing I used to draw on my walls when I was five with felt-tip pens. EXACTLY like that, actually. Gods, no wonder my mother used to throw a hissy fit whenever I did it...

Anyways. Square Enix profits increasing isn't THAT surprising, for reasons already stated I can't be bothered to repeat and, business models and all that crap aside, when you do as poorly as they've been doing, there is only one way to go, and that is up. A few lousy games, alas, aren't enough to put them into liquidation or anything of the sort.

 

[Dragon Mage]

Graphics are not everything ya' know. Please tell me you're joking.

Graphics are a main selling point. Most will base the choice of whether or not they purchase a game on trailer and graphics. Thus, I guess it makes sense to focus more on graphics than story, plot, character development and all those other beancounter metrics people like myself swear by... It may be lame considering they don't really mean anything...

XD I was, indeed, totally joking. I mean, come on -- FF7 fan, here? Graphics mean crap to me. Sure, they are a very lovely bonus to have, but they definitely fall into the tertiary level of importance.

I don't think SE is skimping out on any kind of character development, story or anything like that. The FF games are juggernauts about that kind of thing. Any one FF game will have more character, plot and story than almost any other set of games out there. (note, I said almost.) Compare the characterization of Master Chief to, let's say, Hope (13) or Ashe (12) or even Yuna (10). The FF characters will win hands down.

So no, I don't believe SE is making with the cheap on story and character. It's just that these newest stories and characters may not appeal to as many people as the earlier games did.

No one ever sits down and says, "I'm going to make a shitty game today that will cost millions in development."

No, it just doesn't work that way. It's really a hit and miss kind of thing. So SE is trying out some different plotlines and creating character personalities they've never explored before. These characters may not be as widely appealing as some earlier ones have been but that's fine -- it's how the creative process works. I'd rather they try something new each time and get some marginal success, than have them crapping out the same story, same characters, and same trite settings endlessly that eventually becomes a predictable joke, like some other games out there. *coughResidentEvilcough* I'm fine with how things are. 13 may not have been a blockbuster hit, but then games that are like that are fairly rare. I think it's a bit much for fans to expect each and every game to be astounding.

If SE managed to make every single game as popular and loved and get as many die-hard fans like 7 and 8 did...... I would immediately suspect them of making deals with Satan. In person. Maybe even making ritual sacrifices to The Deep Ones on the side, just to be sure.


Also, anyone that judges a game based solely on graphics shall forever be recorded on my idiot list. They don't know what they are missing.


Addendum, 13-2 may not be selling very well anywhere because of this thing called the economy, which is currently in this other thing called the toilet. Any sales of anything should be kept fairly conservative, really.

*gets off soap-box*

 

[Richard B Riddick]

I don't think SE is skimping out on any kind of character development, story or anything like that. The FF games are juggernauts about that kind of thing. Any one FF game will have more character, plot and story than almost any other set of games out there. (note, I said almost.) Compare the characterization of Master Chief to, let's say, Hope (13) or Ashe (12) or even Yuna (10). The FF characters will win hands down.

So no, I don't believe SE is making with the cheap on story and character. It's just that these newest stories and characters may not appeal to as many people as the earlier games did.

No one ever sits down and says, "I'm going to make a shitty game today that will cost millions in development."

No, it just doesn't work that way. It's really a hit and miss kind of thing. So SE is trying out some different plotlines and creating character personalities they've never explored before. These characters may not be as widely appealing as some earlier ones have been but that's fine -- it's how the creative process works. I'd rather they try something new each time and get some marginal success, than have them crapping out the same story, same characters, and same trite settings endlessly that eventually becomes a predictable joke, like some other games out there. *coughResidentEvilcough* I'm fine with how things are. 13 may not have been a blockbuster hit, but then games that are like that are fairly rare. I think it's a bit much for fans to expect each and every game to be astounding.

If SE managed to make every single game as popular and loved and get as many die-hard fans like 7 and 8 did...... I would immediately suspect them of making deals with Satan. In person. Maybe even making ritual sacrifices to The Deep Ones on the side, just to be sure.

Also, anyone that judges a game based solely on graphics shall forever be recorded on my idiot list. They don't know what they are missing.

Addendum, 13-2 may not be selling very well anywhere because of this thing called the economy, which is currently in this other thing called the toilet. Any sales of anything should be kept fairly conservative, really.

*gets off soap-box*

To give you an idea of what I'm comparing Square Enix to, think of Pixar the people who made: Toy Story, Finding Nemo, Cars, The Incredibles, etcetera.

Every movie they make is different & original. Characters, plot, themes. All different. They go the extra mile in terms of production and development -- and they have NEVER had a box office flop in their entire history.

Ok, now look at the final fantasy genre. Games are becoming repetitive. Characters are becoming repetitive and cliche. Its not like it was with the older games where they took risks and had characters be sasquatches(umaro) and mimes(go go). The battle system isn't being innovated or developed. New things aren't being tried like with V's job system, Tactics having a panel based combat system and parasite eve having its own AT(active time) scheme.

One could make a case that plot, character & similar elements are being recycled and re-used to keep production costs low in an effort to boost profits. The creative process is being neglected in favor of a more streamlined method of mass production. And, the corporate sector is making an effort towards integrating itself more into the design and development process and wielding more authority in the name of "quality control".

If so, what passes for 'game development' may well be a process with an abundance of "oversight" and "micro-management" whereby artists, writers, & programmers have executive suits who may know less about games than an average 12 year old looking over their shoulders and telling them how to do their jobs.

Hironobu Sakaguchi, Nobuo Uematsu and others leaving may well be evidence that this is the case.

While SE may not intentionally degrade the quality of their titles, such degradation may well be the end result, even if it occurs unintentionally as corporate brass attempt to find ways to decrease development and production costs in the name of boosting profits.

Here's an interesting article I read recently that borders somewhat on the topic: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/...what-are-they-good-for-absolutely-nothing.ars

 

[Shaissa]

I heard that FF13-2 sold badly in Japan, regardless of what this article says, so I'm a bit confused now :/

It sold bad on the 360 in Japan, but 360 isn't a big thing over their, it sold over 500,000 in the first week.

But back on topic...
I hope that they keep going up, they did take some huge hits these last couple years, they might actually have a Final Final Fantasy

 

[Dragon Mage]

@Richard B Riddick

I get what you're saying about Pixar, but keep in mind that these movies usually are many years in development, longer than most games. That's why all their movies are so successful -- they literally can spend up to three, four, or more years on all the details.

Also, keep in mind that Pixar and the like will bring in new writers now and then to revitalize their stuff. SE isn't doing that. And remember the distance between sequels -- Toy Story 3 came out TEN YEARS after the first movie. We're expecting a new Final Fantasy at least every other year.

I think it's safe to say that anyone's quality would begin to degrade under that kind of ridiculously high expectations and pressure.

Also, not all of Pixar and Dreamworks movies are 100% loved. They've made some movies I love and others I don't really care for. They don't have universal appeal.

In any case, comparing SE to Pixar or Dreamworks is definitely unfair. Not only are there much different expectations in each, they are from totally different industries that have totally different goals and desires to meet.

We expect a movie to last about and hour and a half. We expect a game to last 50-80 hours. Comparing the two different industries is incredibly unfair.

What SE simply needs to do is pace themselves a bit better and bring in some fresh blood.


It's also a bit unfair to say that the battle system isn't being revitalized. That's pants on head retarded. The battle system is always being revitalized, and I think they're doing a damn fine job of it, too. Can't fault them there.

And you say that they are recycling themes and plots: I'm sorry to say that there's only a handful of actual plots to be had out there. Repetition is BOUND to happen, sooner or later. Also, characters will tend to repeat because there's just so many variations on the human nature you can make before you have no where else to go.

Sheesh. Give 'em a break, you guys.