We will burn hundreds of copies of the Koran...

[Sum1sgruj]

No it wouldn't, because putting Christians in the same group as Muslims, doesn't equate; like at all.

Our religions are different, completely6 different.

I've burned Bibles before, I don't give a shit it's just a book.


Again its just a book. I prefer they burn books over Churches filled with people, like they are trying to and have over in Egypt.

Wait, you wouldn't care that people got attacked over a book getting burned?

I presume you'd feel the same over a flag getting burned then? Or a doll of George Bush getting burned because that's what goes on in the middle east?

Yes we do follow ours, just because we follow our peacefully and accept mistakes doesn't mean we don't follow it.

Its just a book.

Burning a book isn't starting something.

Wow, all this is completely false. Way to go. And they have a lot in common. Muslims follow the God of Moses.
I find it surprising that alleged Christians don not know these things. Muslims know Christianity to a tee- they have to so they can know what it is they really believe in. Burning books is a sign of hate- the act alone is purely hypocritical.
Furthermore, I believe Christians are the least disciplined of all the religions of God. My reasoning shouldnt have to be explained.

 

[coffeecup]

Well, eventhough they both actually praise the same God, the interpretation of the Word of God is quite different between the two religions.

As for the book burning, I don't really understand what the guy aims to accomplish other than inflaming an already tense situation. A part of me thinks this might just be a publicity stunt than a pastor actually believing he's doing the proper thing. But who know? In the end, I don't think he deserves this much attention really.

As a side note, the Koran isn't really just a book and is actually quite a bit different from the Bible. It's supposed to be the actual word of God (unlike the Bible which is a canonical text from a multiple different authors). There's a reason why it's never been translated from Arabic or reproduced in different versions; Muslims are trying the preserve it in its most pristine condition. So to Muslims, it's not really "just a book."

Plus, like Sumi said, Islam does take faith a bit further than Christianity in terms of daily life. They have to do a pilgrimage in their lifetime, they're supposed to pray towards Mecca 5 times a day, the political aspect of the State is supposed to be governed by Islam, etc... It's pretty intense. Sure it's not illegal to burn books, but just because something isn't illegal doesn't mean it's morallly alright or plainly a good thing to do. Show some discretion, jeez.

 

[Gingerbread Lesbian]

At the end of the day, if people are prepared to start fires then they should expect to get burnt, regardless of how stupid the issue is. The guy knows he would have got a reaction and that's most likely his aim so let him get on with it, at the end of the day it is just a book; nothing more, nothing less. The only reason it gets half as much attention is because it involves religion. I doubt people would have a reaction if I started burning Harry Potter books.

 

[Ayumi Hamasaki]

@Earlier discussion:

People burn the Bible all the time and Christians don't freak out. People mock Jesus Christ and we don't freak out. People mock the Bible and Christians don't freak out. People draw God and Jesus Christ and we don't freak out. Unless its WBC, of course, but they are lunatics...

I guess that parts depends on where you live, because when I read that I was like bull. I live in the south. And if someone burns the bible then it's time to get the shotguns out. If you mock Jesus, even as a complete joke, it can lead to outright violence. Depending on how God is drawn then people do freak out.

It's like this, so many people want to write total religions off based on a small group of it's members. Because of where I live, and what I am for that matter, I could write Christianity off in a horrible horrible light if I was to take the small group of them that I've seen everyday since I was small. There are people here who still use Christianity as a tool in their racism for goodness sakes. People who would blow my brains out because of who I love.

The point is, I'm open minded and smart enough to know that ALL Christians aren't like this. Some of them are. Some of them are the most horrible people you could ever met, who would blow things up just as quickly as any Muslim would.

You can pick around the issue all you want, and say that Christianity is different, but you're ignoring the fact that if you look at small groups of us as we look at small groups of them, then you could get just as bad an image.

 

[Big Casino]

@ the original post

Seems a bit childish really, burning some paper wont make things right, just provokes hate....well more hate. Not that i give 2 shits if muslims get offended though.
They should recycle them instead of polluting the o zone. Burning holy scripture is one thing but killing the polar bears is waaaaay outta line.

 

[Sum1sgruj]

Terra Branford, your argument has officially become my aim. Here it goes:

Burning 100's of Bibles/Quarans may not start a lot of trouble in your own neighborhood, but because these books would be burnt, Christians would be helping to continue the onslaught of hate and separation between other religions.
In other words, you don't have to pick up a stone to break a window. You don't have to pick up a gun to shoot somebody, and you don't need to join a militia to come down on a nation.
Islam is indigenous to the Middle-East and all we did was rape them and down their culture for our own benefit. So burning books is more than just burning books. Fighting separatism with separatism is hypocritical. They really wouldn't even need to be Muslims to want to crucify that Christian douchebag. Hell, I want to crucify him_

So like I said, all this 'Dr. King' stuff is redundant. I find it extraordinary how many people either don't know or simply do not want to aknowledge the relationship between the East and West. When you have people burning Quarans, it really just makes you wonder how many actual real Christians there are. The Bible is very adamant about two key things: the 1st is what I mentioned before: You don't have to light a match to start a fire. Analogy intended.
The second: Be wary of your adversary. This guy thinks he's doing a service to God.. kind of sums it up. Neither religion has room for extremists.

So I feel that before people decide to start quoting peace and harmony, they should look at the big picture_

 

[Harlequin]

Muslims know Christianity to a tee-

What a load of bullshit. You think every Muslim knows everything about Christianity? I play football with loads who couldn't even tell you of their own religion.

Plus, like Sumi said, Islam does take faith a bit further than Christianity in terms of daily life. They have to do a pilgrimage in their lifetime, they're supposed to pray towards Mecca 5 times a day, the political aspect of the State is supposed to be governed by Islam, etc... It's pretty intense.

Care to explain how the 'intensity' of Islam takes 'faith' further than Christianity? No? Surely you don't believe faith to be an actions based concept.



Anyway, I think the western world has gone too soft. Britain has at least. You can do anything you want in this country and British people are odds on to just roll over and take it. Foreigners know it's true, the British know it's true, they're just not man enough to stand up for what they believe in. That's why I commend this guy not necessarily for the hate he's expressing but for having the balls to stand up for what he believes in.

 

[Ayumi Hamasaki]

Anyway, I think the western world has gone too soft. Britain has at least. You can do anything you want in this country and British people are odds on to just roll over and take it. Foreigners know it's true, the British know it's true, they're just not man enough to stand up for what they believe in. That's why I commend this guy not necessarily for the hate he's expressing but for having the balls to stand up for what he believes in.

The western world has gone soft. However, I would never commend someone for standing up for what they believe in when it's stupidity. Look at all the people who hate gay people and stand outside funerals with signs saying that "AIDS KILLS GAYS" and stuff like that. By your logic they should be commended because they have the balls to stand up for their beliefs. When their beliefs are just hatred.

It's one thing to stand up for your beliefs, it's quite another when your beliefs are just hatred. He doesn't have balls, he has misconceptions, a judgment complex, and a loaded gun. It's the classic mix for trouble.

 

[Harlequin]

No by my logic they should be commended for having the guts to stand up for what they believe in. It's not as black and white as you've made it out to be. You can commend someone's good qualities whilst disagreeing with their ideas.

 

[Ayumi Hamasaki]

No by my logic they should be commended for having the guts to stand up for what they believe in. It's not as black and white as you've made it out to be. You can commend someone's good qualities whilst disagreeing with their ideas.

I think I get what you're saying, but I suppose in these two cases, my personal feelings are too strong to look at things objectively. I can't just look at the fact that they're standing up for their beliefs without thinking about what their beliefs are. I can't separate the two.

I do believe that it is rather black and white though. You can say that Hitler had balls for doing what he did, but what he did was purely evil. While that's taking it to an extreme, it demonstrates the trouble I think most people would have with looking at things the way you do. Which doesn't mean you're wrong. Just that it's hard for people to look at thing logically like this.

But you are right that no one does anything anymore. No one wants to stand up for their rights. Except people like this who are only standing up for hate. It's sad that so many people don't want to do anything but point fingers and blame at others.

 

[Harlequin]

To be honest I just feel like they're wasting their time. They might gain some respect from the community around them but they've lost alot of respect the world over. I just feel it's regrettable that they happen to have a Christian background, which has obviously given a 'religious tension' flavour to the whole story.

 

[Sum1sgruj]

What a load of bullshit. You think every Muslim knows everything about Christianity? I play football with loads who couldn't even tell you of their own religion.

To be Muslim, you have to know who Jesus was. An entire section of the Quran is dedicated to him and Mary. Moses is the most quoted prophet in the Quran, and he is a major counterpart in the Bible.

The 'renowned Muslims' you play football with are only 'Muslim' by birth. They are not followers. Islam requires exaction.
The only load of bullshit is the 95% of 'renowned Christians' who do not follow their religion. And Christianity doesn't even require as much, which really just adds insult to injury.

So really, burning books just makes Christians blasphemers to Islam and Christianity. That's why, if we assume God is real, the U.S. and other western countries are starting to suffer. Any real Christian would know this/

 

[coffeecup]

Care to explain how the 'intensity' of Islam takes 'faith' further than Christianity? No? Surely you don't believe faith to be an actions based concept.

Actually it depends a bit on what branch of Christianity you follow. Some believe that simple belief will get you saved while others require actions in addition to belief (the rationale is that what you do is a better reflection of your belief rather than what you say you believe). So the concept of "faith" or belief is a bit ambiguous depending on what branch of Christianity you follow. Your *facepalm* was a bit premature my friend.

I'm just typing stuff that flows from my head, so I might've used "faith" in a poor context, but arguing semantics is really just kicking a dead horse so lets refrain from arguing what is and what isn't faith; that's a really inadequate discussion. The point I'm trying to make is simply that there are more "active daily requirements" against a Muslim than Christian. You can twist and turn and say that Christian belief is just as strong as Islam (and I'm not disagreeing with you on that), but it'd be hard to not acknowledge that Muslim practice is a bit more stringent on daily life than Christian belief. That's the intensity I'm getting at.

 

[Sum1sgruj]

The God is not in said book, and nor is faith restricted to said book. What it comes down to is... it's just a book.

Be that as it may, it ensures hostility between religions. There are many people who are less fortunate and have nothing else to fight for except
religion. Unlike the average well-endowed Christian, there are poor Middle-Eastern Muslims who take it as a big slap in the face,, and out the dark lining of the clouds, extremism arises. Now maybe burning books by itself is insignificant, but it is a counterpart of a much bigger conflict, especially when it is so vastly publicized.

 

[Sum1sgruj]

We take it as a slap in the face when idiots burn or do anything blasphemous towards Jesus or God. Difference between us and them? We just don't let it get violent.

We shouldn't have to hold the hands of other religious people when someone with a different view does something stupid like burning their holy book.


Your logic is like saying we should walk on eggshells all so they won't lose their mind and harm someone. That's not the right way out of anything.

Oh, but 'walking on eggshells' is quite an overstatement. It's Muslims who have to walk on eggshells just to avoid bigotry. When their indigenous fortitude is threatened further, they react.
See, it's easy to believe the concept of benevolence when the chips are up, but what happens when the chips are down? Do you really expect a poor man living in a shack out in the desert to not feel animosity towards those who not only contribute to it, but also make a mockery of his religion?
This is very unbecoming for any Christian, yet the Christian capitol of the world takes advantage of their land by exploiting resources and funding terrorism.
Though most Christians may not agree with how the Middle-East is treated, it is still a justified reason for many people to get upset with them as a whole. Because their gov't is doing it and non-Muslims turn their heads so long as their lives are fine. Downing their religion becomes an effective 'crutch' mechanism to continue this rampage.

Burning books is an abomination to Christianity just as the Al Queda is an abomination to Islam. But how many Christians are getting upset about burning Qurans? Muslims fully illustrate the extremism in their culture, but Christians seem to turn a blind eye to their own. This catches the attention of many people, and builds on an already built up issue.

This is a concept that the Bible and the Quran both share- you don't have to strike a match to start a fire, nor do you have to add fuel to keep it burning.
You of all people should know this, as you seem to have your wits about you on the conceptualization of the Bible.

 

[Ayumi Hamasaki]

We take it as a slap in the face when idiots burn or do anything blasphemous towards Jesus or God. Difference between us and them? We just don't let it get violent.

We shouldn't have to hold the hands of other religious people when someone with a different view does something stupid like burning their holy book.


Your logic is like saying we should walk on eggshells all so they won't lose their mind and harm someone. That's not the right way out of anything.

It should be a mark of how ridiculous that was, that I actually laughed out loud at it. Christians don't get violent over stupid stuff? Hm...I can't think of anything that they get violent about that makes no sense, oh wait how about the ones who would blow my brains out or bash my head in with baseball bat just because I'm homosexual? Or how about the ones that stand outside gay funerals with signs saying "AIDS kills gays" and stuff? Oh and the ones who blow up abortion clinics. And the ones who get upset when you even imply that God may be a women.

Oh, and the ones who think that black people are an inferior race and use quotes from the bible to justify it? Or the ones who say that we should shoot the President in the head because his name sounds Muslim?

No, Christians don't get violent or overly defensive about anything at all. I mean, they don't even get slightly heated over a video game character's religious affiliation do they? Nope, they just sit back and take it.

And before you say this is off topic, I'm already quite aware that it is slightly. I just don't get how you can imply that Christians don't sometimes get upset over nonsense too.

Also, I'm not saying that this is all Christians, although most seem to think EVERY SINGLE MUSLIM is some violent terrorist. I have a really nice Muslim neighbor who isn't violent at all. And this would have hurt her.

 

[Harlequin]

The 'renowned Muslims' you play football with are only 'Muslim' by birth. They are not followers. Islam requires exaction.

This is what frustrates me about you Sum1grujfoidsnjfods, you keep jumping to these bizarre conclusions with little to no point of reference whatsoever. The muslims I was referring to are the kind who spend the majority of their free time in the local mosque discussing their religion. Whilst it's almost certain they became muslim through child indoctrination, these are passionate, studious muslims I'm referring to.

Any real Christian would know this/

I ain't no snitch to run to mods, but I'd appreciate it if you would stop goading me with these slanderous one liners, this isn't the first time I've asked you - nicely and all.

Unlike the average well-endowed Christian, there are poor Middle-Eastern Muslims

That's just a bigoted statement. On continents such as Africa and South America the poor Christian population far outweighs the rich. Not to mention in the Middle East we're talking about dictatorships and oppression by their own people. Being a Christian does in no way equate to economic security.

This is very unbecoming for any Christian, yet the Christian capitol of the world takes advantage of their land by exploiting resources and funding terrorism.

The Vatican funds terrorism? I hope you've references for these bold claims. Even then, that's just Catholicism. Christianity doesn't have a capital.

Burning books is an abomination to Christianity

Find a passage that promotes the burning of the Quran in the Bible.

This is a concept that the Bible and the Quran both share- you don't have to strike a match to start a fire, nor do you have to add fuel to keep it burning.
You of all people should know this, as you seem to have your wits about you on the conceptualization of the Bible.

So these actions aren't actually condoned by the Bible? So it's not actually part of Christianity then? Seeing as that's where the religion takes it's reference.

 

[Harlequin]

Christians don't get violent over stupid stuff? Hm...I can't think of anything that they get violent about that makes no sense, oh wait how about the ones who would blow my brains out or bash my head in with baseball bat just because I'm homosexual? Or how about the ones that stand outside gay funerals with signs saying "AIDS kills gays" and stuff? Oh and the ones who blow up abortion clinics. And the ones who get upset when you even imply that God may be a women.

Note that the intolerance isn't necessarily a Christian attribute, but a cultural one. I didn't grow up threatening people for being gay nor did the Christians around me. Are you any better than those who would threaten you if you take a personal grievance of yours and project it onto an entire religion?

No, Christians don't get violent or overly defensive about anything at all. I mean, they don't even get slightly heated over a video game character's religious affiliation do they? Nope, they just sit back and take it.

What goes on in the Aerith's faith thread has no bearing on Christianity as a religion Kesha.

 

[Terra Branford]

EDITS have been made:

Oh, but 'walking on eggshells' is quite an overstatement. It's Muslims who have to walk on eggshells just to avoid bigotry. When their indigenous fortitude is threatened further, they react.
See, it's easy to believe the concept of benevolence when the chips are up, but what happens when the chips are down? Do you really expect a poor man living in a shack out in the desert to not feel animosity towards those who not only contribute to it, but also make a mockery of his religion?

So wait....are you saying this somehow "okays" the violence that follows? Its a book, they really do need to get over it. Its not like they are burning the actual body of Allah, Muhammad or the Mother of their religion.

Its a book. I could see the very first Qur'ān being burned as a reason to care, I suppose....

This is very unbecoming for any Christian, yet the Christian capitol of the world takes advantage of their land by exploiting resources and funding terrorism.

What are you rambling on about exactly?

I'm curious, where did you pull this out of? How is the "Christian capital of the world" funding terrorism?

I'm sorry, but that was just a uhhh....

Though most Christians may not agree with how the Middle-East is treated, it is still a justified reason for many people to get upset with them as a whole. Because their gov't is doing it and non-Muslims turn their heads so long as their lives are fine. Downing their religion becomes an effective 'crutch' mechanism to continue this rampage.

"justified" reason to cause harm because of a book was burned?

Its not only Christians who should see this as wrong, but everyone on the entire planet. lol

You say "upset" like they simply, so far, talk about it. But was has actually occurred with Qur'ān burnings? Violence....

Burning books is an abomination to Christianity just as the Al Queda is an abomination to Islam. But how many Christians are getting upset about burning Qurans? Muslims fully illustrate the extremism in their culture, but Christians seem to turn a blind eye to their own. This catches the attention of many people, and builds on an already built up issue.

When did you become a talking figure for Christianity?

The Al Qaeda is just as much apart of the Islam as any other Muslim. Its their actions that differ them. Some Muslims actually want to follow what the 600 AD book told them to do and others know its wrong.

And no, we don't care if you burn the Bible. We don't. The Book isn't a physical embodiment of Jesus Christ or our God...so we don't care.

Unless you are WBC. I'm pretty sure they'd care.

================​

It should be a mark of how ridiculous that was, that I actually laughed out loud at it. Christians don't get violent over stupid stuff? Hm...I can't think of anything that they get violent about that makes no sense, oh wait how about the ones who would blow my brains out or bash my head in with baseball bat just because I'm homosexual? Or how about the ones that stand outside gay funerals with signs saying "AIDS kills gays" and stuff? Oh and the ones who blow up abortion clinics. And the ones who get upset when you even imply that God may be a women.

Wow. Generalizations on Christians. Your warped perspective about Christians and the Bible is hilarious. Would you like me to explain to you how you're entirely wrong with actual evidence in the Bible? Because the Bible never says to hate Gay people. I have studied it and the original Greek words the translations came off of. If you do, we could always carry it to PM.

Christians don't hate Gay people, the Bible says that Sodomy is bad, FOR ALL ORIENTATIONS! I don't hate Gays. My sisters don't hate Gays. My mother, or her mother and father, or friends, my friends, the Christians over at NF and I'm pretty sure if there are more Christians on this forum, they don't hate them either. It is never even mentioned in the Bible *shakes head*

Not only was it a generalization, but a entirely WRONG one. lol

Yea, if it was as you claimed, there would be a lot more Christians other than the single church of WBC wanting to or doing the actual action of "bashing" Gay people's brains in. So again, another entirely wrong generalization.

That was a total ludicrous, hateful, generalizing comment made out of ignorance of the subject at hand. I would say thank you for contributing to the thread, but you really didn't >.>

Oh! Oh! You mean West Baptist Church (WBC)?...Its just wrong you'd bring a single crazy church up. I mean really, it is just really, really, really, really wrong. That really shows how little you know.

But since you get to use some Christians who either do or don't exist as examples to generalize an entire religion's people, may I actually show you evidence of other religious people (Not just one, not just two, not just three, but SEVEN!) threatening my life and telling me I'd be forced to drink their religion's women blood? Oh wait...that was toward my sister. :/

Oh, and the ones who think that black people are an inferior race and use quotes from the bible to justify it? Or the ones who say that we should shoot the President in the head because his name sounds Muslim?

What?

What quotes? Stop using made up situations and quotes to paint the Christians as bad. It doesn't look well on your character.

People who want to shoot the president? I'm sorry, but that's because they are lunatics. Its not because of our religion that those "Christians" wanted to (if they exist) kill the president /facepalm

No, Christians don't get violent or overly defensive about anything at all. I mean, they don't even get slightly heated over a video game character's religious affiliation do they? Nope, they just sit back and take it.

Oh my gosh...did you actually bring up a discussion from another thread? I'd like to see where the Christians were "violent, hateful" people like you so boldly claim.

They do not. The only ones who do, are the members of WBC. Stop mixing up the facts and what actually occurs. Its just getting ridiculous.

And before you say this is off topic, I'm already quite aware that it is slightly. I just don't get how you can imply that Christians don't sometimes get upset over nonsense too.

"slightly"? Please elaborate how this was "slightly" off topic.

All your "examples" as "crazy radical Christians" was just a joke.

Also, I'm not saying that this is all Christians, although most seem to think EVERY SINGLE MUSLIM is some violent terrorist. I have a really nice Muslim neighbor who isn't violent at all. And this would have hurt her.

"I'm not saying this is all Christians"

BUT>

"although most seem to think EVERY SINGLE MUSLIM is some violent terrorist."

You contradict yourself too much. That's a sign off a terrible debater. Not only that, it just speaks volumes about the "Christians" who want to kill you and the "Christians" you

Spoiler

made up

talk about that want to kill Gay people.

 

[Ayumi Hamasaki]

I'm Christian. And guess what... the VAST majority of us don't want to KILL anyone. Want to know why? Because God tells us NOT TO HARM ANYONE. That's the whole point in the "turn the other cheek" saying.

Kesha, if you really liked her you'd know is a Christian and she LOVES the gays. So, you took the name of someone you hate for no reason and judge wrongfully.


You're stereotyping Christians with your biased an heavily prejudice views. And I take this as offending. And please, idiots might do stupid stuff like that, but Christianity itself doesn't tell people to think that way.

Of course there's "some" christians that do. But where does it say to do that in the Bible? no where.

Aren't you doing just the same with the Muslims? Do you know any personally? Not all of them are violent, but the extremist get the most attention. I know many Christians who would get upset if someone burned the bible, and they'd be perfectly right. It's a pointless act of disrespect to an entire group of people that as a whole have done nothing wrong.

You're stereotyping Muslims yourself, but that doesn't count apparently.

And if a group of Gays got together and burnt the bible because of what a FEW Christians (notice how I said in my original post that I wasn't going after ALL Christians) have done, you'd better believe that there'd be alot of pissed Christians, and there'd be some who'd get violent.

Trying to write off a whole religion as bad on the actions of a few of them is what actions like this imply. You're against doing that to Christians, but it's okay to do it to Muslims? That's a double standard. If that upsets you and you take offensive, then why can't Muslims?

And the dig at you was more of a joke that failed.

You contradict yourself too much. That's a sign off a terrible debater. Not only that, it just speaks volumes about the "Christians" who want to kill you and the "Christians" you made up talk about that want to kill Gay people.

Oh really? I made them up did I? Do you watch the news? Read the newspaper? Do you ever wonder why so many gay teenagers commit suicide? No of course not, because you aren't one. You just want to ignore everything bad about Christianity and trash other people's religions. I didn't make up anything.

And I never said that Christianity encourages this I just said that the people who do it ARE Christians, and that they say that their religion encourages them. And that group sounds just like the Muslims that you guys think they all are.

You get really upset and call me a liar and say that things I KNOW happened didn't all because I implied that some Christians do stuff that they ACTUALLY do? You just proved why doing this is a bad idea and why it'd be okay for Muslims to get upset about this didn't you? It's the same thing, it's just easier to say it's immature when it's not you.