Protesters descend on Ground Zero for anti-mosque demonstration

[Tmoo]

this is an interesting thread. i'll give my bit as well.

even if it's two blocks away, it is in new york city, and the WTC event wasn't limited to just ground zero, it caused major collateral damage and traumatized just about everyone who got engulfed in the smoke clouds, and it has a permanent place in the memory of anyone who heard it on the news that morning. it is hardly insignificant.

the other kicker is that this is a mosque, not exactly a center devoted to bridging the misunderstandings and healing the misconceptions about islam. it is a mosque, built for muslims to practice islam. how would this mosque go about fulfilling its declaration of improving relations with americans, when it is located near a place that continues to serve as a powerful reminder of the religion's fanatics? it will be vandalized, spit upon, and ridiculed. say what you might, but you can't deny that ground zero is a large thorn in islam's side, and an islamic complex, no matter how expensive, no matter how cleanly, no matter how kind, can't hope to erase it. the demonstration shows that the residents of new york have not forgotten 9/11. this isn't to say building it is wrong; it is a bad idea, however, in my humble opinion.

 

[CassinoChips]

Those particular terrorists may be, but muslim terrorists still exist. Just yesterday, three Buddhists were shot down by muslims. And last month, they bombed a concert hall in Russia. A few months ago, 23 Christians were injured by muslims when they hear they were trying to build a church. At least nobody got killed over plans for a new mosque near a certain burial ground.
Try telling me they're dead again.

How many of those were American Muslims? That's who this mosque will serve. When is the last time you heard of an American-born Muslim, or a naturalized Muslim citizen, committing an act of terror on American soil? I can't think of any. If we're going to start penalizing American citizens for actions taken by people around the world of similar ethnic and/or religious backgrounds, we're setting a dangerous precedent.

Moreover, there are approximately 1 billion Muslims in the world. Again, to penalize the Muslims in America, of whom the vast majority have no ties ideologically or otherwise to any terrorist group, is ridiculous. And is in direct opposition to the First Amendment. On the world stage, the extremists are a minority. Yes, they can use the Qur'an to justify their beliefs. Just like, as you said, slaveholders justified their actions through use of the Bible. That doesn't mean that the Bible was/is an evil text. That doesn't mean that all Christians were/are slaveholding racists. So why, now, does it mean that Islam is a religion of hate and all Muslims are terrorists?

It doesn't.

If muslims want to convince anyone that they're not violent, they need to start with themselves first.

The vast majority of Muslims have never committed an act of terrorism. Historically, more Christians have committed acts of terrorism than Muslims.

And until they can show people that they can be moderate and won't kill people for disagreeing, I don't think Americans would be willing to let them build their mosques anywhere as someone earlier alluded to.

What better way to show it then building a mosque? A house of prayer?

And that won't happen until moderate muslims do something about the people causing their religion to suffer.

Who says they have to? Do I have to answer for the transgressions of other Americans? Of other Caucasians? Of other males? Hell, of the Catholic Church? If that last one were the case, I need to start apologizing now, because I'll be at it for the rest of my life. I think it's safe to assume that the majority of Muslims, who are peaceable, moderate people, understand that the WTC being attacked was a bad thing. It is not their fault the crazies of their religion did something stupid. Just like it's not my fault that the Catholic Church covered up the pedophilia of priests for so long. Yet no one is preventing Catholic schools being run by priests.

Actually, if you read the Qu'ran, you'll see plenty of verses backing up what they say. It's like all those horrid things in the bible about slavery, gays and apostasy. It's really not any different. The only difference is that moderate muslims don't act on those things, while terrorists do. So same religion, different people.

Exactly! Moderate Muslims understand, much as moderate Christians do in regards to the Bible, that there are certain things in the Qur'an which simply aren't applicable to today. So why are we punishing the entire populace for the idiocy of a few?

even if it's two blocks away, it is in new york city,

So no mosques in NYC? I made this point in one of the earlier threads. What's the limit? Where's the border? At what distance from Ground Zero is it acceptable to build a mosque?

how would this mosque go about fulfilling its declaration of improving relations with americans,

By showing that the Muslims who attend that mosque, who are representative of the population of Muslims throughout the country, are peaceful people who aren't terrorists.

say what you might, but you can't deny that ground zero is a large thorn in islam's side, and an islamic complex, no matter how expensive, no matter how cleanly, no matter how kind, can't hope to erase it.

They're not trying to erase it. If anything, they're saying something along the lines of: "Yes, we understand that a handful of adherents of our religion committed this atrocious act. But we want to show that the majority of us have nothing to do with those idiots. When you see us praying, giving to charity, and helping the community, you will see that we are not all Islamist terrorists."

 

[Rasputin]

If muslims want to convince anyone that they're not violent, they need to start with themselves first. They need to do something about the people that are giving them their bad image before they try appealing to us. Otherwise, they'll end up pissing people off, and pissing people off isn't a good way to prove a point. And until they can show people that they can be moderate and won't kill people for disagreeing, I don't think Americans would be willing to let them build their mosques anywhere as someone earlier alluded to.

There are just as many violent, racist, insensitive Christians as there are Muslims. Are you telling me they can't build a church near Ground Zero either? Obviously there would be no fuss over that, because these protesters are hypocritical scumbags who are hiding their bigoted, racist nature behind a wall of self righteousness. The vast majority of Americans, when it comes right down to it, are not against allowing well intentioned people to build a house of worship for the benefit of the community.

No it wouldn't; only people living in New York have easy access to such a mosque. I could care less if I ever got to see that mosque or not. And I suspect people who are either too busy or too ignorant to care would bother to learn about how moderate muslims can be just because some mosque got built. The Internet, however, is much more easily accessible, and straight to the point. A mosque? That's way too ambiguous. It doesn't explain anything. That mosque could belong to muslims who are like terrorists, or it could belong to muslims who aren't.

It's OBVIOUSLY going to belong to Muslims who aren't terrorists. Did you read who is building this Mosque? It isn't Al Qaeda! It's isn't the Taliban! There isn't going to be any terrorist teachings inside of this house of worship.

And it doesn't matter how atheists or muslims explain to people how they believe, or even what to believe (besides, there are muslims guilty of the latter anyways). Just because you think atheists use the Internet to tell people what to believe doesn't mean muslims can't use the Internet to tell people what they believe. All the protesters need is evidence that Islam is reforming itself. And that won't happen until moderate muslims do something about the people causing their religion to suffer.

The protesters are what is wrong with America, not the Muslims. The goal of this mosque should not be to appease these people, but to show without a doubt that these bigots are completely blind to the realities of Islam. Who knows, if they actually step into this mosque they may realize that a good deal of the Muslim community as a whole is working actively to fight these extremist groups.

Actually, if you read the Qu'ran, you'll see plenty of verses backing up what they say. It's like all those horrid things in the bible about slavery, gays and apostasy. It's really not any different. The only difference is that moderate muslims don't act on those things, while terrorists do. So same religion, different people.

I have to strongly disagree with you there. The Qu'ran does not encourage individual preachers of the faith to kill innocent civilians simply as a political statement. The explanation of Jihad on Wikipedia gives more information about this. Regardless, once again I ask- would you have a problem with a Christian church built near Ground Zero?

The majority of atheists accept evolution; they don't believe it on blind faith, just as you wouldn't be expected to on any other scientific theory. Common sense and humanism are things that come from experience; it doesn't come from blind faith either. The whole idea of religion being a sugarcoated turd is an opinion; you don't need blind faith for that either.

Yes people do need blind faith for religion, because there's absolutely no evidence that any religion is even in the least bit correct. Evolution and scientific reasoning in general have long been proved by material evidence and repeated trials. However, we also tolerate religion in society because it makes people happy and it creates a sense of community and culture that can hold people together.




Simply put- these protesters are no better than the racist people in Arizona getting upset over the portraits in a school mural being painted in too dark a skin tone. They continue to ignore reality in order to promote their hate speech, and we should not consider compromising religious and cultural freedoms to fit their views.

 

[The Witch]

All I'll say is that the Muslim religion told those people to kill thousands that were in New York that day. It'd be ignorant to claim all Muslims want to kill all nonbelievers but that's what the Qur'an tells them to do.

Of course not every Muslim acts on this, but as a whole, their religion is based on terrorizing and killing all nonbelievers-- and that along with the 9/11 attacks is what sticks with Americans.

You can't blame New Yorkers for being offended by this building. 9/11 victims are literally going to have to live under the shadow of something that led 19 hijackers to kill 2,976 and injure 6,000+ innocent people.

Sure, not every Muslim will attack and terrorize nonbelievers, but what do you expect non-Muslims to believe when they read parts of the Qur'an that say "Allah" says to terrorize and kill nonbelievers.

If their Qur'an says to "terrorize and kill nonbelievers" believers and none believers will have to take that into account and judge the religion on what it's based on.

Which is violence. More so than others.

 

[Rydia]

A little random and I'm not going to add much to the debate but there is a group online of muslams trying to promote moderate Islam. If anyone is interested or wants to check out their websites here they are.

http://www.freemuslims.org/
http://www.m-a-t.org/

 

[Rasputin]

All I'll say is that the Muslim religion told those people to kill thousands that were in New York that day. It'd be ignorant to claim all Muslims want to kill all nonbelievers but that's what the Qur'an tells them to do.

Prove it.

Of course not every Muslim acts on this, but as a whole, their religion is based on terrorizing and killing all nonbelievers-- and that along with the 9/11 attacks is what sticks with Americans.

CITATION NEEDED PLEASE.

You can't blame New Yorkers for being offended by this building.

I just did though...

9/11 victims are literally going to have to live under the shadow of something that led 19 hijackers to kill 2,976 and injure 6,000+ innocent people. [

Sure, not every Muslim will attack and terrorize nonbelievers, but what do you expect non-Muslims to believe when they read parts of the Qur'an that say "Allah" says to terrorize and kill nonbelievers.

Interpreted correctly in context, the Qur'an is quite clear that violence against states that do not threaten Islam's existence is completely unacceptable. I would argue that those non-Muslims have only gotten their information about the Qur'an on stations like Fox News.

 

[The Witch]

Prove it.

CITATION NEEDED PLEASE.

Interpreted correctly in context, the Qur'an is quite clear that violence against states that do not threaten Islam's existence is completely unacceptable. I would argue that those non-Muslims have only gotten their information about the Qur'an on stations like Fox News.

You want proof, right? You want actual quotes from the Qur'an that says their religion is based on terrorizing and killing all nonbelievers?

Are you sure? Whelp, ask and I shall provide.

Qur’an:9:88 “The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard and fight with their wealth and lives in Allah’s Cause.”

Qur’an:9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

Qur’an:9:112 “The Believers fight in Allah’s Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed.”

Qur’an:9:29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.”

Ishaq:325 “Muslims, fight in Allah’s Cause. Stand firm and you will prosper. Help the Prophet, obey him, give him your allegiance, and your religion will be victorious.”

Qur’an:8:39 “Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.”
Qur’an:8:39 “So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).”
Ishaq:324 “He said, ‘Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.’”

Qur’an:9:14 “Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, lay them low, and cover them with shame. He will help you over them.”

Ishaq:300 “I am fighting in Allah’s service. This is piety and a good deed. In Allah’s war I do not fear as others should. For this fighting is righteous, true, and good.”

Ishaq:587 “Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace.”

Qur’an:8:65 “O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding.”

Ishaq:326 “Prophet exhort the believers to fight. If there are twenty good fighters they will defeat two hundred for they are a senseless people. They do not fight with good intentions nor for truth.”

Is that enough of the Muslim religion saying to terrorize us all till we're either all Muslim or dead?

 

[.Ted]

@PB: I noticed you only posted verses and not actual chapters. How do I know it's not talking about a certain type of unbelievers, and just unbelievers in general?

But anyway, I'll add my 2 cents into this. I think it's a good idea to build this mosque, despite the number of conservatives it will offend. Yes, it's close to Ground Zero. Fortunately, it's not ON Ground Zero.

It's not the Taliban who's building it, right? If it is, something's wrong with our government. But I think whoever's doing it means well. After all, not all Muslims are terrorists. If these people can show that, then it'll stop any bigots from protesting (I doubt it, since they hate to be wrong and tend to add gasoline to the fire when it happens.)

 

[Rasputin]

Rather than go through each of those quotes individually, I'd like to make a few points:

-Ishaq did not write the Qur'an, but a biography on the life of Mohammed. His writing should not be taken as an authoritative religious document, but simply as a record of the early era of Islam.

-Mohammed repeatedly makes clear that non-combatants should not be victims of warfare. Hence his prohibitions against the killing of women, children, and the elderly.

-Islam came to existence in a very violent and divisive time in Middle Eastern history. Tribes were often engaged in decades long bloody power struggles, and sets of laws could change overnight with the overthrow of one set of leaders. The religion did not attempt to end warfare so much as regulate it, and took a very hard stand against anarchy and banditry. Fighting to preserve order and peace is considered righteous, as without it the very existence of Islam would be threatened.

-The term "disbelievers" refers to those who had been personally shown unquestionable evidence of the existence of Allah and still chose to disbelieve it. The only ones who were authorized to do so were Muhammed and his closest associates. Because they've all long since passed away, usage of many of these quotes is irrelevant when attempting to define Muslim philosophy. They should be taken as historical records.

As a counterpoint, I can cite numerous examples of the Christian god and his prophets butchering people simply for getting in the way or not accepting the Hebrew faith. Elijah ordering the mass murder of the prophets of Baal comes to mind, so does the needless slaughter at Jehrico. Like the points above, though, these should be taken as historical records and not blatant endorsements of violence to spread the religion.

 

[The Witch]

-Mohammed repeatedly makes clear that non-combatants should not be victims of warfare. Hence his prohibitions against the killing of women, children, and the elderly.

That's why they stone women to death for being raped.

-The term "disbelievers" refers to those who had been personally shown unquestionable evidence of the existence of Allah and still chose to disbelieve it.

In other words, me. Or the rest of the world that belongs to another form of religion.

As a counterpoint, I can cite numerous examples of the Christian god and his prophets butchering people simply for getting in the way or not accepting the Hebrew faith. Elijah ordering the mass murder of the prophets of Baal comes to mind, so does the needless slaughter at Jehrico. Like the points above, though, these should be taken as historical records and not blatant endorsements of violence to spread the religion.

Why does everyone do that.

Anytime the Muslim religion is questioned everyone starts bringing up Christianity like it's the the poster religion. You all always bring up Old Testament from the past part of the Bible to try and justify what the Qur'an says to do now.

We are not discussing Christianity we are discussing the Qur'an and it's followers. Even if the Bible has done something bad or is continuing to do so, it has NOTHING to do with the Qur'an.


No matter what a Muslim says, they cannot explain these sura;

Qur’an:9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

Ishaq:587 “Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace.”

Qur’an:8:39 “Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.”

Qur’an:8:39 “So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).”

Ishaq:324 “He said, ‘Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.’”


Those blatantly tell Muslims to kill and terrorize all nonbelievers.

 

[Ewan]

Why does everyone do that.

Anytime the Muslim religion is questioned everyone starts bringing up Christianity like it's the the poster religion. You all always bring up Old Testament from the past part of the Bible to try and justify what the Qur'an says to do now.

We are not discussing Christianity we are discussing the Qur'an and it's followers. Even if the Bible has done something bad or is continuing to do so, it has NOTHING to do with the Qur'an.

It's because there is a double standard where the Quran is demonised and the Bible isn't. There are passages that are just as heinous as ones found in the Quran, yet, we don't have people stoning their children or killing gays. (for the most part)

Oh, but that was the OT. It's just swept under the carpet. We need not concern ourselves with the 'nasty' parts of the Bible. Muslims for the most part do the same, pick and choose what to follow from the Quran. Both religions have moderates, a minority of psychos and heinous books.


At the end of the day though, being offended isn't a reason to stop the building of a mosque. They could stop building it to appease the people, but they have no obligation to. If being offended was a good enough reason, then everyone would be getting rid of the many things that offend them.

 

[The Witch]

It's because there is a double standard where the Quran is demonised and the Bible isn't. There are passages that are just as heinous as ones found in the Quran, yet, we don't have people stoning their children or killing gays. (for the most part)

Oh, but that was the OT. It's just swept under the carpet. We need not concern ourselves with the 'nasty' parts of the Bible. Muslims for the most part do the same, pick and choose what to follow from the Quran. Both religions have moderates, a minority of psychos and heinous books.


At the end of the day though, being offended isn't a reason to stop the building of a mosque. They could stop building it to appease the people, but they have no obligation to. If being offended was a good enough reason, then everyone would be getting rid of the many things that offend them.

Good point.

The main thing is that the Muslims have a large portion of followers that do act on those parts of the Qur'an.

The Bible might say some questionable things, but you don't see Christians flying airplanes into their buildings and then erecting a Christian church in its place, do you?

 

[Ewan]

No. But that's a very specific scenario though isn't it? You can't deny that there are psychos who use the Christian faith to commit horrible crimes. Death is still death regardless of how you inflict it.

 

[CassinoChips]

The Bible might say some questionable things, but you don't see Christians flying airplanes into their buildings and then erecting a Christian church in its place, do you?

Of course not. You see them ask very persuasive questions (Inquisition), play around in the woods and threaten judges (Hutaree), sexually abuse and "marry" young girls (Branch-Davidian), sexually abuse young boys (Catholic priests), eliminate their financial competition (Knights Templar), and wage jiha- excuse me, holy war (Crusades). Yet when these un-Christian acts are discussed, despite being justified through the perpetrators' views of the Bible, they are said to be acting in direct opposition to the Bible. Not acting on the behest of the Bible.

Yet a Muslim extremist commits an atrocity, and suddenly Islam is a religion of hate. That's hypocrisy.

 

[The Witch]

I'm not denying that Christianity has it's dark side. All I'm saying is(as far as I've seen)Muslims are the most extreme of all religions.

 

[.Ted]

The Bible might say some questionable things, but you don't see Christians flying airplanes into their buildings and then erecting a Christian church in its place, do you?

No, but we sure see a buttload of news involving them doing horrible crimes. Heck, this kind of thing was shown on America's Most Wanted (the one case where the two "Christian" guys kidnapped a prostitute[?]).

I'm not denying that Christianity has it's dark side. All I'm saying is(as far as I've seen)Muslims are the most extreme of all religions.

Not all Muslims are extremists, but some extremists happen to be Muslim. To me, that sounds just like a stereotype. It's like saying all Catholics rape children, conservative preachers are too greedy, so on and so forth.

All religions have their dark side. I read your profile and now I know you're a Christian. Despite the many sects, the many flaws, and just the many morons who misinterpret the Bible on the Protestant side, you choose to remain a Christian. That's the kind of thing I really admire, because the only thing it takes to do that is a true relationship with God.

Sorry for going off-topic, so back to the convo. Perhaps building a mosque is NOT the best idea the Muslim community has ever done (it's probably even the worst). But going through with this will show anyone and everyone that not all Muslims are bad. They're certainly not going to stop just because us Americans judge them on what some bad apples have done. Why do you think lots of people from the Middle East want to come to America?

Think of it this way: Would you stop being a believer just because someone was giving God a bad name? A true believer -- be it Christian or Muslim -- would answer "No."

 

[Sepalcure]

Okay, let me put my two-cents in it. I have friends who are Christians: Catholics, Baptists, Anglican, etc. and I have friends who belong to the Muslim faith. Okay, I believe personally that every religion has its bad side and its good side, hell let's generalize it and just say that the human race is capable of doing good or evil. The challenge is to always a maintain a balance of good and bad energy.

That said, there is no doubt that 9/11 did in fact cause a great stigma, a huge blemish, to form over the pride that encompasses the citizens of our nation. It was a terribly day for everyone, whether they lost someone close to them or not, everyone grieved that day.

First of all, what you must understand is that every book that is religious has questionable texts in it. These books were written in a time way back when, before condemnation of such acts were very heinous by society's standards today, or not as frowned down upon. What does that mean? Well the Bible has questionable texts in it too and so does the Torah and so does the Qu'ran. But it's the way you read into these texts and what you pick out to apply to your life that counts.

Anyone can be a fanatic or an extremist: whether Muslim, Christian, or Jewish or whatever. And trust me you have every fanatic you can think of out there under the Sun. I mean honestly, we're being pretty xenophobic here, we're not being that compromising by saying that they shouldn't build a mosque there at all. It's two blocks away and the people who are building it don't represent the fanatics that are the minority of their religion. In fact the people there are planning to make it secular, I don't know if anybody caught that, as well as including the option for Muslims to pray if they want to.

It's like having a decidedly secular school, meaning there is no religion/church/religious organization affiliated with it, that still gives students the option to pray to whatever God they want without penalizing them. Hell, they even have a recreational center with swimming and all kinds of stuff for children, it isn't just a mosque, it has one inside of the building or rather will have one but it has the divisive side for people who aren't Muslims and don't adhere to the faith.

That seems like a compromise within itself. Why the hell would you argue against that? I could understand if they built this place right on the remains, the ashes, the bones, and decomposed carcasses of so many people on Ground Zero. But no, they said instead, "Hey let's just build a secular recreational center with a mosque and stuff to show that we're giving back to the community, repaying our debts, offering our penances for what those sickening people did in the name of our religion."

It sounds to me that these wonderful moderate Muslims (quite like my own Muslim friends) understand that what occurred on 9/11 was terrible and can even sympathize with the sufferers. Because if they didn't care then they wouldn't be doing this in the first place so obviously this affected them and they feel the need to offer something our of straightforward kindness but because we're humans and flawed and shit we can't all accept that for what it is. No, we must protest and whine and bitch and moan even when they're trying to show us that look, everyone does bad things, terrible crimes everyday, not all religions are evil, sacrilegious, bigoted, hypocritical, fanatical schemes or machinations of man. Not every religious is person is evil. Some are, not all of them.

Not every Muslim on the street will bomb your ass. Not every Christian will spit on your face if you're homosexual. Not every Catholic priest feels the need to fondle boys. But there are the crazy few who fit into these sad stereotypes. We should just accept it and swallow it but of course, you're always going to have people challenging something, especially when it concerns a group of radicals from a religion mostly preaching peace and tolerance (I mean in terms of what moderate Muslims choose to follow from their book).

The Bible doesn't exactly look favorably upon gay people or bisexual people but I have a cousin who's bisexual and we're all Christians in my family. Just because we're Christian does it automatically mean we're going to ostracize her for her sexual orientation? No, she's still human and she's still apart of our flesh and blood. We're all brothers and sisters and essentially came from the same entity, is what I believe. I think a lot of those protesters need to take a good look at what they're doing: condemning a whole nation of people for what a few crazy nutjobs did just because they chose to read something out of context and take it to harm the "nonbelievers."

Seriously . . . I mean really?
You have people starving in the world, people getting bombed, dying from cancer and shit and THIS is what pisses people off? What the hell? I'm sorry this just irks me.

 

[Terra Branford]

Not all Muslims are extremists, but some extremists happen to be Muslim. To me, that sounds just like a stereotype. It's like saying all Catholics rape children, conservative preachers are too greedy, so on and so forth.

Okay...I don't wish to start a debate war or just a war, so I will ask this.

How can you say not all Muslims are extremists when their own religion tells them to murder in the name of Allah?

If a Muslim does not murder a Kaa Faa Raa, then they are not Muslim, meaning you don't call them Muslim.

The Muslim religion (The Qu'ran) tells its followers:

"....We will storm over the lands of the non-believers and invite them to war, and if they refuse to devote themselves to Allah and his word, then smite their heads, kill them with boiling water, cut their fingertips off and kill them.

Let use deceive and lie in the name of Allah to non-believers until one day, when we are large in numbers, will raid their homes and tell them to convert. If they refuse, dispel them from Allah's land, chop their heads off in the name of Allah.

Or take thy mercy and make them a slave."

They call Jihad (which has been given many different meanings in Arabic and in the Qu'ran itself) on non-believers.

And qatilu (fight) [O you who believe!] in the way of Allah, and know that Allah is Hearing, Knowing (2.244).
Falyuqatil (then let) those who sell this world's life for the hereafter (fight) in the way of Allah. And whoever yuqatil (fights) in the way of Allah so he gets killed or turns victorious, We shall grant him a great reward (4.74).
Faqatil (then fight) [O Muhammad!] in the way of Allah; you are not held responsible but for yourself; and urge the believers [to fight]. May be Allah will restrain the might of the disbelievers; and Allah is greatest in might and greatest in punishment (4.84).

Jihad is often translated as "Holy war". They talk about bringing "Jihad" on unbelievers, a "holy war". A war...is still a war.

Although, its true meaning is "striving" and pushing all different strengths -- mental and psychical, against something. Literally it means "striving." But what kind of striving is it?

Here is something else.

The following verses from the Qur'an use different forms of this word (2): O Prophet! Strive (jihad) hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell, - an evil refuge indeed. (9:73, 66:9)

Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive (jihad) against them with the utmost strenuousness. (25:52)

And who does more wrong than he who invents a lie against Allah or rejects the Truth when it reaches him? Is there not a home in Hell for those who reject Faith? And those who strive in Our (cause), - We will certainly guide them to our Paths: For verily Allah is with those who do right. (29:68-69)

And this, too.

Jihad very frequently refers to combat. That is undeniable. The Qur'an makes copious references to fighting in the cause of faith. The question, however, is whether this fighting is sanctioned only for the purpose of self-defense.
The Qur'an itself seems to be of two minds on this matter. Some critics of Islam carelessly quote the following verse to illustrate Islam's aggressiveness:

And slay them wherever ye catch them.... (2:191)​

However, the full quotation is:

Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. (2:190-192)​

From the context it would sound, at least in this passage, that the Qur'an prescribes fighting only in self-defense. However, this is not its only word on the subject. Some verses seem to prescribe fighting without qualification, except that the enemy be a nonbeliever:

Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not. (2:216)

Say to the Unbelievers, if (now) they desist (from Unbelief), their past would be forgiven them; but if they persist, the punishment of those before them is already (a matter of warning for them). And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do. (8:38-39)

O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are a people without understanding. For the present, Allah hath lightened your (task), for He knoweth that there is a weak spot in you: But (even so), if there are a hundred of you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred, and if a thousand, they will vanquish two thousand, with the leave of Allah: for Allah is with those who patiently persevere. It is not fitting for a prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he hath thoroughly subdued the land [Pickthal: "until he hath made slaughter in the land"]. Ye look for the temporal goods of this world; but Allah looketh to the Hereafter: And Allah is Exalted in might, Wise. (8:65-67)

But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. (9:5 [often called the "sword verse"])

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya [poll tax] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (9:29)

O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about [Pickthal and others: "who are near to you"], and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him. (9:123)

Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded (See, as Muslim, you are commanded to murder) ): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah, - He will never let their deeds be lost. (47:4) ​

Allah himself says he and Muhammad command Muslims to kill non-believers.

Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded (See, as Muslim, you are commanded to murder) ): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah, - He will never let their deeds be lost. (47:4)

You must whole-heartedly devote yourself to the word of Allah.

And if you don't kill non-believers as a Muslim, you are not a Muslim, nor do you follow the religion Allah offers.

To be a Muslim, you have to do everything the Qu'ran says, not just pieces of it. Because Allah talks about killing those who partially believe in his word and orders.

So if Muslim does not kill a Non-believer in the name of Allah, you are not a Muslim. You are something else.

If none of that last part made sense, this is what I meant:

"Muslims must follow everything the Qu'ran says. If you follow 99 steps out of 100, you are not Muslim. You must follow all 100 steps to be a Muslim, or you are not Allah's child."

Please don't say I've got this from a biased place...I haven't. I already tried on another forum to translate my copy of the Qu'ran, but people claimed that was biased too. So if I can't use the internet or my copy of the Qu'ran...what can I say?

 

[Channizard]

Quite frankly I would say the ladies of Bubblegum and Terra have won this.

 

[Donald Trump]

Okay...I don't wish to start a debate war or just a war, so I will ask this.

How can you say not all Muslims are extremists when their own religion tells them to murder in the name of Allah?

Have you willfully ignored all the posts that rebut your argument.
All it is, is quotes you've chosen to support your absurd idea that muslims want to kill you. Most religions, christianity included have these same motifs. Kill and torture non-believers, enslave people etc.
If you and anyone else was being objective they'd say the same thing about Christianity. But Christians are white, they wouldn't do anything bad.

The Bible might say some questionable things, but you don't see Christians flying airplanes into their buildings and then erecting a Christian church in its place, do you?

No Christians wouldn't invade Iraq, nor would Jews murder people on ships carryng aid. Only darkies do that.