To have a Final Boss?

[DarkClaymore]

In all RPGs I have played so far, that of course includes the FFs, there is the "Final Boss" thing. Many games have it actually, but in RPGs it always seems a little more special thing. It usually have it's own battle music and such.

But I was thinking, is it really so necessary?

I believe that older RPGs focused more on gameplay (FFI, FFII, FFIII) rather than on plot and characters. So having "Final Boss" is cool and makes you enjoy the game more.
But nowadays FFs (I don't sure about other RPGs) focus a lot on plot and characters. So it is not just about "kick some giant monster's as*".
So I don't really see the point of having final boss in every game.
Moreover that in many FFs, the optional bosses are stronger than the "final boss" and he loses his role as the "strongest enemy". Thus having him doesn't really have much point IMO.

I surely will enjoy a game without a final boss. I believe it can be a nice plot twist as well. Just think about it.
You play the game and wonder "who is the final boss and how strong he is?". At some point, you can geuss who it'll be. Lets say it is some kind of legendary monster that a villain (who is weak and can't fight himself) plans to summon to destroy the world.
Then, when you finally reach the villain, he fails to summon the monster and you just kick his as* (because he is weak) and get a happy ending!
IMO having such a thing once in a while is nice.
It leaves you shocked "WTF? Where is the final boss?"

 

[GoldenMaster]

Has much as not having a final boss sound appealing, its just not possible. The final boss is the glue that holds everything together. Considering that they are not normally revealed until the very end, they still make the story come together. Take FFX for example. Without fighting the final aeon, Tidus wouldn't have disappear and Sin would have kept reappearing. Thus, the final boss is needed to end the story.

 

[DarkClaymore]

Has much as not having a final boss sound appealing, its just not possible. The final boss is the glue that holds everything together. Considering that they are not normally revealed until the very end, they still make the story come together. Take FFX for example. Without fighting the final aeon, Tidus wouldn't have disappear and Sin would have kept reappearing. Thus, the final boss is needed to end the story.

Yeah, but can't someone else kill the last boss for a change or something?
For example in FFX,

Spoiler

maybe Semoyer could learn how to destroy (somehow) Yu Yevon himself . Then he manages to destroy Yu Yevon, but ends up exhausted and defenseless. Then Yuna just sent him without fighting. This way Tidus will disappear anyway, so it is alll the same.

I don't get why all conflicts must be solved with fighting.

 

[squall0258]

No, it must have a final boss, without one, the epicness is shorthanded.

 

[Sohryuden666]

A final boss is usually a must in RPG games, since they tend to be the main cause of the characters' current problems. Well, not just the characters, but the world usually. Besides, I don't think it would feel right without a final boss. Doesn't that just make the game less epic? Not just that, but it's like the trials you've gone through during the course of the game look a little pointless, don't you think? After all, the hero/heroine's storyline almost always ties in with final boss, so if they weren't the ones to defeat it, then having someone else beat them to the punch just feels very wrong.

 

[Ilyena]

Lets say it is some kind of legendary monster that a villain (who is weak and can't fight himself) plans to summon to destroy the world.
Then, when you finally reach the villain, he fails to summon the monster and you just kick his as* (because he is weak) and get a happy ending!

Xenogears actually did have something like this sort of. Not the monster bit but the actual final boss of the game was pretty pointless. But the pre-final boss was a bitch.

A final boss is usually a must in RPG games, since they tend to be the main cause of the characters' current problems. Well, not just the characters, but the world usually. Besides, I don't think it would feel right without a final boss. Doesn't that just make the game less epic? Not just that, but it's like the trials you've gone through during the course of the game look a little pointless, don't you think? After all, the hero/heroine's storyline almost always ties in with final boss, so if they weren't the ones to defeat it, then having someone else beat them to the punch just feels very wrong.

I agree with this. It seems kind of silly to spend all that time leveling up only to get to the end and have a big sign that says "Surprise! No final boss here!"

Well, maybe not that but you get the picture. Throughout most RPGs, you are working towards a final goal which pretty much coincides with defeating the main villain. If there is no final battle or confrontation then all of the hard work was for nothing. It would basically have to be a Deus Ex Machina ending.

 

[Sohryuden666]

Well, maybe not that but you get the picture. Throughout most RPGs, you are working towards a final goal which pretty much coincides with defeating the main villain. If there is no final battle or confrontation then all of the hard work was for nothing. It would basically have to be a Deus Ex Machina ending.

Yeah, that about sums up what I was trying to point out. Another thing I've noticed in a few RPGs is the final boss is the reason why some characters band together in the first place. It's like, I don't know, destiny that they met, just for this sole purpose. What I'm saying is, you travel, train, bond with new people who share a common goal, then train some more. Then, after all that, no final boss? Seems like a huge middle finger to the face. But, really though, in my honest opinion, the final boss is like an RPG's driving force, in storyline, and usually even character development.

 

[DarkClaymore]

Xenogears actually did have something like this sort of. Not the monster bit but the actual final boss of the game was pretty pointless. But the pre-final boss was a bitch.



I agree with this. It seems kind of silly to spend all that time leveling up only to get to the end and have a big sign that says "Surprise! No final boss here!"

Well, maybe not that but you get the picture. Throughout most RPGs, you are working towards a final goal which pretty much coincides with defeating the main villain. If there is no final battle or confrontation then all of the hard work was for nothing. It would basically have to be a Deus Ex Machina ending.

Yeah, I know. But it really annoys me that almost every FF you play nowadays have at least 2 optional bosses (usually Omega and Ultima) which are much stronger than the Final Boss.

I beat the Final Boss and go "Yeah I won". But then, if I want to try and beat a optional boss, he kicks my as* in a flash.
So what is the point of that "Final Boss" if he isn't even the strongest?
It feels more as all your tranning was rather in order to beat some random optional boss (who has nothing to do with the story) than the final boss (who as you said, very vital part of the story).

I probably wouldn't have thought about the "No Final Boss" idea if he really was the Final one and strongest one.
Though, I always like unexpectable twists.
I don't think it'll make the game less epic, at least for me, as long as the ending is great.

 

[L]

Asking this reminds me of something I think that I read Slash say or heard him say in an interview or something.

Basically what he said was that: It's not the 70s anymore, you don't need a solo for all of your songs (or something like that....) , and I guess that kind of sums up my opinion on the matter. While having a Final Boss is favourable, I don't necessarily feel like it should be a requirement.

 

[Ilyena]

Yeah, I know. But it really annoys me that almost every FF you play nowadays have at least 2 optional bosses (usually Omega and Ultima) which are much stronger than the Final Boss.

I beat the Final Boss and go "Yeah I won". But then, if I want to try and beat a optional boss, he kicks my as* in a flash.
So what is the point of that "Final Boss" if he isn't even the strongest?
It feels more as all your tranning was rather in order to beat some random optional boss (who has nothing to do with the story) than the final boss (who as you said, very vital part of the story).

I probably wouldn't have thought about the "No Final Boss" idea if he really was the Final one and strongest one.
Though, I always like unexpectable twists.
I don't think it'll make the game less epic, at least for me, as long as the ending is great.

Well, it generally is the Final one story-wise. Optional bosses are optional for a reason. Usually it takes a great deal of training and leveling before you can actually defeat them. Some people just aren't willing to put that much time into a game. The final boss difficulty level is lower to accommodate those who want to just follow the storyline without all of the extra sidequests and training (at least it seems this way).

Think about it. How many people would really be willing to grind to level 99 just to defeat the final boss? Late in the game, leveling becomes extremely tedious. Honestly, if the final boss of FF XII had been something along the lines of Yiazmat, there's no way I would have bothered finishing the game. So the optional bosses are for those want to test their skills with a bigger challenge.

I'm not saying having an RPG or FF with no final boss couldn't be done. The story format would probably have to be drastically different though.

 

[DarkClaymore]

Well, it generally is the Final one story-wise. Optional bosses are optional for a reason. Usually it takes a great deal of training and leveling before you can actually defeat them. Some people just aren't willing to put that much time into a game. The final boss difficulty level is lower to accommodate those who want to just follow the storyline without all of the extra sidequests and training (at least it seems this way).

Think about it. How many people would really be willing to grind to level 99 just to defeat the final boss? Late in the game, leveling becomes extremely tedious. Honestly, if the final boss of FF XII had been something along the lines of Yiazmat, there's no way I would have bothered finishing the game. So the optional bosses are for those want to test their skills with a bigger challenge.

I'm not saying having an RPG or FF with no final boss couldn't be done. The story format would probably have to be drastically different though.

So I say they should either get rid of the final boss or the oprional ones.
I just don't see what is the point of having both of them.
I never really bother to level up in order to beat them anyway.
Because ,as you said, leviling up at high level is usually annoying and I don't see the point if I don't need it for the main plot.


I liked it much better for example in FFIII or FFIV, where you had optional bosses which aren't stronger than the final boss.
Then I could take my time and train a little in order to beat them.
But even though I leveled up in order to beat the optional ones, the final boss wasn't easy and still felt like "The Strongest" enemy in the game.

That really felt epic. Now, when I defeat the final boss, the only thing I think about is "No wonder he was quite easy. After all, he isn't the strongest boss in the game ". It just takes away the enjoyment of beating the final boss IMO.

 

[Super Saiyan Kuja]

I think RPGs should always have final bosses. If a plot twist comes along and kills the antagonist... That'd be a bit of an anticlimax, wouldn't it? If I was playing an FF, feeling all psyched for the final battle, and then getting "Whoops, he's dead," I'd feel a bit ripped off.

Though you do make a good point with the optional bosses. They should either lower their power to make them slightly easier than the final boss, or beef up the final boss.

 

[Gingerbread Lesbian]

I like having final bosses, and whilst you probably could get rid of them, it's best not to because of the storylines most RPGs seem to follow in which you'll have the good guys, eg. your Clouds, Zidanes, Squalls etc then you'll have the bad guys who want to take over or threaten the world, Sephiroths, Sins etc
The thing with Final bosses is that those characters normally throw in the twists and turns within the storyline, plus not having a final boss is quite disappointing, and not having to fight them really is the worst feeling you'll get...play Fable II, brilliant game, worst boss ever.

 

[Makatak]

I find final bosses/confrontations/anything are usually necessary in almost any game. Its a way of testing all of the abilities the player/characters have acquired overtime, followed by a feeling of relaxation as the player enjoys the ending and credits.

 

[TheRealTrxd]

Its an absolute must, all RPG's need an enormously difficult climax to symbolise the epicness of your last 40+ hours.

In all RPGs I have played so far, that of course includes the FFs, there is the "
Then, when you finally reach the villain, he fails to summon the monster and you just kick his as* (because he is weak) and get a happy ending!
IMO having such a thing once in a while is nice.
It leaves you shocked "WTF? Where is the final boss?"

And that's a good thing?

 

[V_Translanka]

What games (much less just RPGs) that have bosses don't have final bosses...? This is either a completely stupid question or was just asked/worded wrong.

 

[DarkClaymore]

And that's a good thing?

I always love unexpected things.

I don't like the fact all FFs I have played have the "Good guys beat the bad guys" theme.
Can't they make something different for a change?
Like "Bad guys are defeated by their own darkness".

I love this kind of endings.
I know that in a game it may feel that something missing, but you always have powerful optional bosses. After I defeat the final boss, I never try to beat those optional bosses and I feel like SE were wasting their time making them.

 

[Valkyrur]

... A definite must-have. To me, it provides the final conclusion to the story, as well as the final excitement, or anticipation as I continue on the game.

 

[Gaige]

I do need a final boss. The game would fall short for me. I remember training up my characters for the likes of Sephiroth and Ultimecia, junctioning GF's and shifting around materia. Of course, final bosses often tend to be a little easy, even if you're quite underleveled. Still, it gives a sense of finality.

Can you imagine? Off into the final dungeon, to fight the final boss. He's already dead?!

 

[DarkClaymore]

Can you imagine? Off into the final dungeon, to fight the final boss. He's already dead?!

Yeah, that probably will make that game one of my favorites ,as long as the reason he is dead is cool. Like being unable to control his own monsters and got killed by them.

I rather won't fight a final boss than: fight him, easily beat him and start thinking: "that what I was traning for!?!?".
Then, if I ever try an optional boss, he kills me in a flash and I feel like a total noob (which probably true though). So all my tranning made it easy to defeat the final boss and nowhere near to allow me to beat either Ultima or Omega. It is just so... frustrating...


But since there is no one who really agrees with me, I guess I am just a twisted human