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[Aztec Triogal]

I have a question and a suggestion. Why the fuck are we adding all these new pointless discussion threads that serve really no other purpose than to raise post count? We have a shoutbox. It is capable of having several sections open at once... and yet our mods seem to think it's a clever idea to open more and more forums on an already cluttered board.

So after the opening of the Veteran board, which is basically another place for mods and experienced members to "chit chat" and bullshit about absolute pointlessness in an effort to raise post count... you have now opened these teams. What is the point of a team? To sit around in little cliquish groups and gossip about absolutely nothing significant and again, raise post count. You have a shoutbox. You have MSN. Why the fuck are we adding more forums where the only two possible outcomes could be to raise post count and hide yourself away from other members.

Why is a Final Fantasy Forum becoming less and less about it's intended subject. I'm glad the mods are waiving their flag of victory at their ability to make countless threads.

There are two things that really concern me and boil my blood. It's not that these forums were created so much, because if that was it I simply wouldn't post in them and everything would be hunky fucking dorey. My two major problems with these forums are these.

1. We, as a site, are becoming more and more misrepresentative of our forum's name. This is no longer a Final Fantasy site. The majority of posts here are either in spam, debate, and graphics topics. Again, you complain about the site having less and less active membership and yet you wonder why. It's because people come looking to discuss Final Fantasy and they find a cluttered pile of bullshit that has nothing to do with what we claim to be.
2. The second issue I have is that there are more and more forums that are post count. It's not that I care if someone has a higher post count than me. Hell, when I left they subtracted 1,000 posts from my count and you haven't heard me bitch about it. What disturbs me is that I honestly believe there are people in charge of these boards who care about it. Look at the top 5 posters. How many of them are mods? All of them. And that's not just because length of membership. It seems more and more apparent than our worst spammers are not new members coming on these boards and making three letter replies to topics, but our mods who seem to do nothing more than sit around and gossip in the mod lounge. I guess it wasn't enough though, as they have now created two brand new places for them to spam about topics that are completely pointless and inconsequencial.

The second issue has a simple answer, make those forums non-post count. I'm fine with you keeping the mod lounge post count. I see it as a perk for mods. I'm not fine with these pointless discussion threads being post count though.

The first issue, I have no idea how to address it. The truth of the matter is that there are two different types of people that visit this site. 1) People who come here to post about Final Fantasy and 2) People who do not have active social lives and come here fill the gaps in their social lives by discussing everything that cannot be found there. The problem is that we're catering to group 2 without any regard for the first group. There are people who's only interest in joining this site is to post about Final Fantasy... but they're getting pushed aside so a smaller contingent of members can do as they please. Again, you wonder why membership and activity is dropping, but you do nothing for the entirety of this site. It's wholly for the second group. It is a problem that needs to be addressed.

 

[Jack's Smirking Revenge]

The fact is that Final Fantasy is, and has been for some time, a dying topic. There's only so many times that you can go over the significance of the wolf in AC, or if you preferred Seifer over Squall and so on and so forth. These new forums could very well keep the forum going for another two or three years. Things have to change, I'm afraid.

As for the post count thing, I'm all for abolishing it entirely.

 

[Rey]

You know Aztec I am going to have to agree with you because I am so confused about this ''Team'' thing when we have a shoutbox like you said. This Team stuff is already just making me be like Wow Wtf is this you know. Writing challenges like what to see who writes a better fanfic? Game challenges like what?

 

[Aztec Triogal]

The fact is that Final Fantasy is, and has been for some time, a dying topic. There's only so many times that you can go over the significance of the wolf in AC, or if you preferred Seifer over Squall and so on and so forth. These new forums could very well keep the forum going for another two or three years. Things have to change, I'm afraid.

And you're right that is entirely the case for group two. For members who do not come up with creative new threads, that have been posting here for a few years, I am sure they have got to be sick of the same old threads. I know it gets to me. I spend too much time on here sometimes and I hate seeing the same old threads... so I research FF and come up with new interesting theories. There should be a forum on FF theories far before there is EVER one on graphics or teams or poetry or llama worship or whatever the fuck it is that people talk about here.

And as for your other point, how would they know who to mod? If you don't spam like Rhea, clearly you're not mod material around here. I honestly believe of the whole fucking staff there is one person who I think is truly competent and able enough to do his job well. The rest are passable with high post counts but only one strikes me as good.

 

[Davey Gaga]

I have a question and a suggestion. Why the fuck are we adding all these new pointless discussion threads that serve really no other purpose than to raise post count? We have a shoutbox. It is capable of having several sections open at once... and yet our mods seem to think it's a clever idea to open more and more forums on an already cluttered board.

So after the opening of the Veteran board, which is basically another place for mods and experienced members to "chit chat" and bullshit about absolute pointlessness in an effort to raise post count... you have now opened these teams. What is the point of a team? To sit around in little cliquish groups and gossip about absolutely nothing significant and again, raise post count. You have a shoutbox. You have MSN. Why the fuck are we adding more forums where the only two possible outcomes could be to raise post count and hide yourself away from other members.

If you just want to talk on the shoutbox and MSN, then do so. You could say that about every forum we have on the boards - why do we have a debate forum at all? What's the point in having an area to discuss movies? Why is it necessary to have graphics competitions? Because people like them. If they don't then they don't post in that area, it's as simple as that. You can't say "there's no need because we have MSN or the shoutbox", otherwise all we'd have on the site is a shoutbox.

Why is a Final Fantasy Forum becoming less and less about it's intended subject.

Because there's a point at which you can no longer discuss the same boss or same characters anymore and people look for something different. If you're not a fan of the board's diversity, then don't support the existence of such forums and just don't post there.

It's like asking why a Pharmacy, intended to sell pharmaceuticals, would sell christmas gifts, when it's not a christmas gift store - they're there because it's a popular choice.

We, as a site, are becoming more and more misrepresentative of our forum's name. This is no longer a Final Fantasy site. The majority of posts here are either in spam, debate, and graphics topics. Again, you complain about the site having less and less active membership and yet you wonder why. It's because people come looking to discuss Final Fantasy and they find a cluttered pile of bullshit that has nothing to do with what we claim to be.

What would you suggest to up activity in the FF part of the forum? You can't do that until a new game comes out, really. There's nothing wrong with diversity. I don't come here to talk about FF; I come here to socialise.

The second issue I have is that there are more and more forums that are post count. It's not that I care if someone has a higher post count than me. Hell, when I left they subtracted 1,000 posts from my count and you haven't heard me bitch about it. What disturbs me is that I honestly believe there are people in charge of these boards who care about it. Look at the top 5 posters. How many of them are mods? All of them. And that's not just because length of membership. It seems more and more apparent than our worst spammers are not new members coming on these boards and making three letter replies to topics, but our mods who seem to do nothing more than sit around and gossip in the mod lounge.

I do believe that you were once in those top 5 and it was no doubt contributed to by the HQ. Also, if you think we're spamming, then tell us where and we'll kindly tell you why we're not.

I guess it wasn't enough though, as they have now created two brand new places for them to spam about topics that are completely pointless and inconsequencial.

It annoys me that you have this "it's unnecessary" mindset. Post counts are just there to encourage activity. They don't matter for anything else.

As I say, if you don't like those boards, then don't post in them. It's no different to a real life conversation - if you don't want to be part of it, you either change the subject or leave until the subject changes.

No problem whatsoever, imo. Just someone who wants one to exist.

 

[Bambi]

Our new areas have no post count - as for the teams its a bit of fun, competions and the like, Im not sure if thats post count or no, who cares?

And as for the top 5 thing, I was there BEFORE I made mod, so, no I didnt get my post count from spamming up HQ

 

[Donald Trump]

I have a question and a suggestion. Why the fuck are we adding all these new pointless discussion threads that serve really no other purpose than to raise post count? We have a shoutbox. It is capable of having several sections open at once... and yet our mods seem to think it's a clever idea to open more and more forums on an already cluttered board.

That's irrelevant. As you so observantly pointed out, it is the mods who have the highest post count, so why would they want to raise it. Clear flaw in your logic there.

So after the opening of the Veteran board, which is basically another place for mods and experienced members to "chit chat" and bullshit about absolute pointlessness in an effort to raise post count... you have now opened these teams. What is the point of a team? To sit around in little cliquish groups and gossip about absolutely nothing significant and again, raise post count. You have a shoutbox. You have MSN. Why the fuck are we adding more forums where the only two possible outcomes could be to raise post count and hide yourself away from other members.

Again with the 'raising thr post count' motif.
It seems to me the point of this thread is to raise your post count.

Why is a Final Fantasy Forum becoming less and less about it's intended subject. I'm glad the mods are waiving their flag of victory at their ability to make countless threads.

mmm diversification, it's right up there with greed, sloth, lust etc.
Except of course it's sound business practise. Broader appeal and less risk.

We, as a site, are becoming more and more misrepresentative of our forum's name. This is no longer a Final Fantasy site. The majority of posts here are either in spam, debate, and graphics topics. Again, you complain about the site having less and less active membership and yet you wonder why. It's because people come looking to discuss Final Fantasy and they find a cluttered pile of bullshit that has nothing to do with what we claim to be

A Forum entirely dedicated to FF?
Then that would make you a hypocrite, as I remember at least two of your threads in the debate section.
It's a clear case of supply and demand. People want more than just FF, so it is provided. That's pretty much at the heart of the free market system, and if it works for that, it can surely work for a forum.

The first issue, I have no idea how to address it. The truth of the matter is that there are two different types of people that visit this site. 1) People who come here to post about Final Fantasy and 2) People who do not have active social lives and come here fill the gaps in their social lives by discussing everything that cannot be found there. The problem is that we're catering to group 2 without any regard for the first group. There are people who's only interest in joining this site is to post about Final Fantasy... but they're getting pushed aside so a smaller contingent of members can do as they please. Again, you wonder why membership and activity is dropping, but you do nothing for the entirety of this site. It's wholly for the second group. It is a problem that needs to be addressed.

The blind leading the blind, you've been back two weeks, yet you are already writing out prescriptions.

 

[Big Casino]

I dont really see what all the fuss is about to be honest. I like the fact theres a wide variety of different subjects to talk over, there would be a lot less activity if it was only final fantasy. Post count doesnt bother me, and i dont care how others increase theirs either. Im not interested personally in the whole teams thing, but there are members here that will enjoy it, so i say go for it. This is just a forum afterall and wev all got lives outside of it, so its not really a big deal is it?

 

[Davey Gaga]

Bear in mind a few points Aztec -

1) The previous staff team completely destroyed FFF. It drove people away, reduced activity and traffic etc. There are still some people on staff who go out of their way to do what *they* want, and not what is best for the site (Looking at you, Tiel/Koloth)

2)The current de facto leader of the forum (Mitsuki) is working hard to improve the place and reignite activity by trying new things out. There isn't a single experienced forum owner/admin on the entire staff team (People like Tiel/Koloth vote to keep them out, so they don't get demoted for their inactivity) This means the staff team that is there is trying anything that seems like a good idea, even if a more experienced team would know what will/won't work. They're finding out for themselves, don't worry, It won't cause permanent damage =P

3)You underestimate the work the majority of the staff do. Posting a lot and being a visible presence is VITALLY important to increasing activity - it's possibly the single most important role a staff member can play. Staff hogging the top 5 posters is a good sign, not a bad one. On top of this, most of the staff do plenty of work behind the scenes - the current set up is significantly better than the previous one.

4)Cliqueishness is currently being pushed as an agenda sure, but it's only a matter of time, i believe, until these cliques can be put to good use. Competitions to see which group can get the most referals for instance, or which group gets the best "report cards" from new members etc. These are definetely schemes that could be used to positively affect new members, and encourage them to stay around.

5) The people who stay on FFF DON'T stay for the FF discussion. On forums people never do. They stay for their friends, or for the banter, or for other more social reasons, not the subject matter. FFF has a large built up member DB already, which means that these social threads will inevitably form a large proportion of the threads - thats not a bad thing, So long as the staff make sure to come up with schemes to attract, and encourage, new members, nothing thats going on just now is inherently bad.

Some staff members do need to be removed/replaced though, without a doubt, and in my opinion there needs to be a better hierarchy in place. Mods need to feel like they have some sort of ownership over their sections. Gmods, in my opinion, should be asked to focus on areas of the forum in particular, to give them goals and aims, and Admins should be focusing on the direction of the forum (I also think there needs to be an experienced admin in there with them to help with that, and someone with at least some technical ability)

The shoutbox needs to be treated like a section as well IMO. It needs to be assigned to certain mods, and a Gmod. Obviously in the case of immmediate spamming etc anyone can act, but as a general rule, standards should be enforced by a team whose job it is to look after the shoutbox, not by all the staff bringing all their personal feelings and likes/dislikes into their actions in the shoutbox.


Sorry for the long post

You've sneakily went from shutting up Eric to suggesting ways to help the site. I suggest making a separate thread for them, particularly the latter one about the shoutbox - I think that's a really good idea and I don't want it to become lost in this (purposefully dramatic) thread.

 

[Aztec Triogal]

I think that's a really good idea and I don't want it to become lost in this (purposefully dramatic) thread.

Eeeh, troof. Still, I think there needs to be far less focus on post count around here. It's like all the members aren't playing on an even field because newer members and morons (sometimes synonymous) see high post count as a sign of influence. And that's just ridiculous. I honestly do not think it helps encourage posting, as you suggested.

As for the forums, I do truly wish more people posted about Final Fantasy here. I go out of my way to make new and interesting topics about Final Fantasy... and sometimes I feel like I'm one of maybe three or four members that do. Even so, the fact that we have so many non-FF forums has nothing to do with mod direction. Members ask for those thing and so they are given them. Simple as. It's just not as easy to blame members. lol

Also, Placebo... your logic for the post count arguement is flawed. A herione addict doesn't stop wanting herione just because he's shot pounds of it into his arm. This counter to your logic doesn't really have any application for this particular post. I just felt like pointing out that you were wrong.

 

[Warrior of Light]

1) The previous staff team completely destroyed FFF. It drove people away, reduced activity and traffic etc.

Hey! I know several staff members who tried their best to keep this place in as good a shape as possible under the circumstances. I know some of them did a terrible job, and didn't care enough, but others tried very very hard to do right by the forum, and simply couldn't make the changes needed for various reasons I won't bore you with.

I do on some level understand Aztec point about how a FF forum should be about FF and how new members generally join for the FF sections of the board. However, after reviewing this board, I can see there is quite a number of places devoted to FF, and while I'm out of the loop, it dosen't seem like it needs more of a push. There seems to be a prolififeration of subforums and it's kind of hard on the eyes and annoying to have to scroll through. Couldn't some be combined?

Also, while most people come for the FF discussion, most people stay for the socialization. So mainly, you have to cater to both. Dismissing one over the other is foolish. I might find arguing the size of Cloud's sword (lol) annoying after a while, but a new memeber is just starting out, and would like the opportunity to discuss as I had.

I also do think that sometimes people need to worry less about forums, simply because that life really ought not to be so complicated. Even if a forum isn't doing high numbers of posts or doesn't have a lot of members (though that's relative) doesn't mean it's a failure--it's a failure only if the vision of the site is destoried or isn't replaced with an adequate and reasonable substitue.

Um, I had more but I had one too many drinks today so I'll stop here. LOL

 

[Warrior of Light]

Ooh, I don't remember you. You probably were on staff after me. Although you did join the same time so I might have known you...

I'm only saying that you should give some former staff members a break, is all.

 

[Warrior of Light]

Stop including everyone in your assessment. Do you even know me? Remember what I was like? Do you even remember who half the staff were at the time I was around? Or interacted with any of those staff? Or me? Really, stop taring everyone with the same brush!

 

[Mitsuki]

We are not here to talk about the former staff members and this thread have served its purpose. Clearly someone needed a rant, but the topic has now derailed from a whole new direction and we'd rather not go there.

-Thread Closed-