Any thoughts on why the direction of Final Fantasy has become... Poor?

[gregorthegame]

I love Final Fantasy. I have played every game. Beaten every game including XI (Have nothing left to even do...) besides XIV... XIV was extremely pathetic in my opinion... Anyways I started this thread because I just can't fathom what has become of Final Fantasy.

While I am disappointed with FFXIII and its sequel.. I do not find them to be horrible games... They just do not have the FF feel to them. FFXIII-2, ok you can go where you want... But it's not an open world like all of the other FFs... It's disappointing. I know FFXI and FFXIV are open worlds, but they should have been called "FF Online." Back to FFXIII-2, a time travel system? Really? I dunno... I'm sorry I feel this way I just.... By the way what happend to Versus XIII? We've only heard about that since.... 2005? Development hell?

If you notice... It takes them longer and longer to make a final fantasy game, yet they can make a crappy FF and 2 sequels... That aren't too good. I just don't understand the logic? Again, I hate to bash this company I love, but what the fuck are they thinking?

The real reason I think they won't make an FF7 remake is because they are afraid they'd fuck it up. Look at the shit they put out recently. I can't remember the last good game SE has put out. I did LOVE FFXII, but to me, lately I just feel the company is going down the tubes. My favorite FF games are FF4, FF6, FF7, FF8 and FF12... 7 being my favorite, I have played all of them as I've said. I seen another thread saying the demand has to stop for it.... The FFVII remake. Why? Look at what they're giving us.

As you can tell I am a huge FF fan, but I'm just very disappointed at what SE is doing with this franchise. We need the open worlds back, the airships you fly, the crystals, and of course, that final fantasy atmosphere... I miss the good old days... I know all good things come to an end, but damn I hope Final Fantasy doesn't end this way...

 

[dra600n]

If I read correctly, Square merged with Enix because Square was in some hot water financially.

Time Travel: FF1 had time travel. Not to the extent FF13-2 has, but you have to travel back in time to stop Garland/Chaos.

I do agree that the series has gone downhill. To me, the 16 bit FF's are the pinnacle of Final Fantasy. 7 was good, 9 was good, but from there, it goes down hill. FFX you don't control your airship like you used to, the game is pretty linear, and they focused more on graphics and a pretty cheesy story. Square hit the same thing that most developers of the last 2 gaming generations did: They want to push the systems GPU's to the limits. Back in the 8 and 16 bit era, they had to focus on gameplay and story to make a good game, whereas now they just make good graphics and FMV's. Yay?

 

[black_eclipse]

If I read correctly, Square merged with Enix because Square was in some hot water financially.

Time Travel: FF1 had time travel. Not to the extent FF13-2 has, but you have to travel back in time to stop Garland/Chaos.

I do agree that the series has gone downhill. To me, the 16 bit FF's are the pinnacle of Final Fantasy. 7 was good, 9 was good, but from there, it goes down hill. FFX you don't control your airship like you used to, the game is pretty linear, and they focused more on graphics and a pretty cheesy story. Square hit the same thing that most developers of the last 2 gaming generations did: They want to push the systems GPU's to the limits. Back in the 8 and 16 bit era, they had to focus on gameplay and story to make a good game, whereas now they just make good graphics and FMV's. Yay?

You hit the nail on the spot. XII is a great game on it's own. But as a series, it feels different from it's previous predecessors except XI. As for XIII, it's a good game but not great. But the characters annoy the hell out of me especially Vanille and her cheesy voice actress. The linearity of XIII is also one major weakness. Why do entertainment industry always resort to heavy romance? It bugs me.

As for X, I kinda disagree. It's not completely linear as anyone said. You still find hidden power ups and bosses if you do a little backtracks. But yeah, the voice acting is kinda cheesy too. It reminds me of the acting on the original Resident Evil. It still cracks me up.

 

[gregorthegame]

If I read correctly, Square merged with Enix because Square was in some hot water financially.

Time Travel: FF1 had time travel. Not to the extent FF13-2 has, but you have to travel back in time to stop Garland//Chaos.

Yes, FFI you did go back in time at the end of the game, same with FF8 to fight Ultimecia... But I should have clarified that in FFXIII-2... It's like the damn stage select in MegaMan... And there is like 20 different timelines its just... Not all that great. There is way TOO MUCH time travel. Yeah I,ll Travel to 537 AD and Snow will be in this forest here.... Yeaaaaaah OK.

 

[dra600n]

You hit the nail on the spot. XII is a great game on it's own. But as a series, it feels different from it's previous predecessors except XI. As for XIII, it's a good game but not great. But the characters annoy the hell out of me especially Vanille and her cheesy voice actress. The linearity of XIII is also one major weakness. Why do entertainment industry always resort to heavy romance? It bugs me.

As for X, I kinda disagree. It's not completely linear as anyone said. You still find hidden power ups and bosses if you do a little backtracks. But yeah, the voice acting is kinda cheesy too. It reminds me of the acting on the original Resident Evil. It still cracks me up.

XIII isn't entirely linear, as you can go back to previous locations and do some more hunting around and looking for other materials, and some spots open up after you beat the game. X is linear compared to all the other FF's in that you can't just go explore the world leisurely and the game kind of holds your hand through the entire game. Is that necessarily bad? No. But it does take away from Final Fantasy.

Yes, FFI you did go back in time at the end of the game, same with FF8 to fight Ultimecia... But I should have clarified that in FFXIII-2... It's like the damn stage select in MegaMan... And there is like 20 different timelines its just... Not all that great. There is way TOO MUCH time travel. Yeah I,ll Travel to 537 AD and Snow will be in this forest here.... Yeaaaaaah OK.

Haha, nice analogy with the menu select I actually enjoyed XIII-2. They fixed a lot of things from XIII, and even though it still doesn't compare to the quality of FF4 and 6, it's still a really good game. I do miss the traditional style of leveling up and learning your skills (oh, you're a black mage? here's Meteo at level 86) and hate how the uniqueness of the characters truly vanished (which started with FF6) by allowing everyone to have the same skillset with a minor skill, most of which are useless past the beginning of the game (Really, who uses Cyan's Swordtech? Or Edgar's tools after the first half of the game?).

Dragon Quest 8 has the best level up system I've seen so far. It's close to traditional, but you gain spells and abilities wherever you spend your ability points. Oh, you want Jess to become a massive mage? Pump skill points into the Staff ability. Want Yagnus to learn some healing spells? Pump some skill points into Humanity. While there's some overlap, the characters are pretty customizable and it doesn't feel daunting to level them up to find out which spells and abilities they get.


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7 is a good game, and it still feels like a Final Fantasy. 8 doesn't (to me, my opinion ), but 9 really felt like Square was going back to their roots with Final Fantasy and gave me (and I'm sure many others) that "yes! new final fantasies are going to be bamf!", then they churn out X and X-2, make XI online, XII is pretty good, though I don't care for the battle system, and finally, we got XIII. XIII-2 was the "if this game is pure trash like XIII was, I'm done with FF". It turned out to be really enjoyable (except the ending, that annoyed me), so I have some faith still. Not much. I think they should allow the Dragon Quest team to take over Final Fantasy from here on out, as Dragon Quest has always seemed to get better and better with each iteration.

 

[Razberry Knight]

Intense is mot the word i would use. It was still highly influenced by 12 in the sense that you can have a universal strategy. And thats the problem. Other than that it lacks free roam where 12 exceeded.


I played 12 with open arms as i did with 13. Although vaan wasnt really important, i didnt really continue for him. It may be that i played Star Ocean before 12 but it was still a great game. Granted i know it has its flaws but it stillf fun to play. 12 still had optimization to your commands, and free roam.


13 lacked free roam, lacked optimizarion, lacked pretty much optional and they changed the monsters too. Granted bomb looks like a bomb nut dont we prefer the classics?

I wosh 13 was a spi off then a main title

 

[kryceks]

I think that most old school fan boys want more of the same. Ever since the company became Square-Enix, the direction of the games immediately shifted. That isn't really a bad thing but they went too extreme with the changes. Now when I think of a new Final Fantasy, I know there is going to be some pretty boy, characters with some fashion issues and a villain that is either trying to top Sephiroth or just doesn't make any sense.

One of my biggest grips about FF13 is that you walk down a hallway and then it's time for a cutscene. This was a real problem for me. It is a real contrast from Final Fantasy 7 where you get a chunk of story line and then have time to digest character interactions while you explore the world map. But now, Lightning has a quick scene with Hope, walks down a hallway and then their relationship suddenly blossoms. The writers have just been really lazy when trying to tell a story. The ideas are good and original it's just that the execution is poor.

But I think that is the problem with most of the new games. Too many ideas but no one seems to know how to use them practically.

 

[Razberry Knight]

I think that most old school fan boys want more of the same. Ever since the company became Square-Enix, the direction of the games immediately shifted. That isn't really a bad thing but they went too extreme with the changes. Now when I think of a new Final Fantasy, I know there is going to be some pretty boy, characters with some fashion issues and a villain that is either trying to top Sephiroth or just doesn't make any sense.

One of my biggest grips about FF13 is that you walk down a hallway and then it's time for a cutscene. This was a real problem for me. It is a real contrast from Final Fantasy 7 where you get a chunk of story line and then have time to digest character interactions while you explore the world map. But now, Lightning has a quick scene with Hope, walks down a hallway and then their relationship suddenly blossoms. The writers have just been really lazy when trying to tell a story. The ideas are good and original it's just that the execution is poor.

But I think that is the problem with most of the new games. Too many ideas but no one seems to know how to use them practically.

It has nothing to do with old school fans.

The problem with the current final fantasy is that it lacks alot what the original had.

They werent changes, it just lacked. And even them it is left umrefined for the little it does have. Granted their coming around but we still get the most annoying subseries constantly beong pushed on us. Itakes it hard for any 13hater to move on

 

[kratoscar2008]

Just like every franchise this gen the FF series has been appealing to everyone wich nerf the very essence of the series, just like Resident Evil and Silent Hill.

And SE have Toriyama as the head wich is a bad business desition, its not rocket sciense.

 

[gregorthegame]

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Just like every franchise this gen the FF series has been appealing to everyone wich nerf the very essence of the series, just like Resident Evil and Silent Hill.

And SE have Toriyama as the head wich is a bad business desition, its not rocket sciense.

Hmm... Is the DECISION by SE as bad as your spelling?

I agree with you on other series taking a hit like resident evil. Silent hill downpour was pretty solid in my opinion... However, Final Fantasy started its downward spiral with FFX and FFX-2.. It came back to life a bit with FFXII.. But then XIII came.... Nuclear bomb.

Anyways... How bout FFX.. They're REMAKING it for the 10th anniversary... That's what SE said anyway... But as we all know we won't see the game until at least the 17th anniversary. Just look at Versus XIII... Versus XIII actually looked decent and was supposed to have an airship AND world map! But uh.... Yeah... No new info! If this company keeps running like this... They'll go from king of RPG makers to... Well... You get the idea.

 

[Razberry Knight]

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Hmm... Is the DECISION by SE as bad as your spelling?

I agree with you on other series taking a hit like resident evil. Silent hill downpour was pretty solid in my opinion... However, Final Fantasy started its downward spiral with FFX and FFX-2.. It came back to life a bit with FFXII.. But then XIII came.... Nuclear bomb.

Anyways... How bout FFX.. They're REMAKING it for the 10th anniversary... That's what SE said anyway... But as we all know we won't see the game until at least the 17th anniversary. Just look at Versus XIII... Versus XIII actually looked decent and was supposed to have an airship AND world map! But uh.... Yeah... No new info! If this company keeps running like this... They'll go from king of RPG makers to... Well... You get the idea.

notmany would agree with you final fantasy X. though i agree with FFX-2.


final fantasy XII was a nice twist in my opinion howeve i can see wy people dislike it (i just dont see hwo people can hate it more than XIII)

 

[gregorthegame]

notmany would agree with you final fantasy X. though i agree with FFX-2.


final fantasy XII was a nice twist in my opinion howeve i can see wy people dislike it (i just dont see hwo people can hate it more than XIII)

I understand a lot of people like X, but for me.. Seymour alone just ruins it for me... His voice actor, his backstory, the theme of FFX itself just didn't feel right to me. While it did have summons and black mages and thiefs, it was pretty linear like FFXIII.. No open world.. Straight paths... Don't get me wrong I'm not saying its bad... It's just every game Squaresoft used to throw at us except a select few... They were excellent from FFIV to FFVII to FFVII to Xenogears... Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross... But at some point in time shit hit the fan. If you look at it... FFX was made by Squaresoft and I believe FFX-2 was the first game under the "Square-Enix" brand... Around this time Hironobu Sakaguchi left. I think right around the release of FFX but before FFXI in may of 2002... Maybe he really was A HUGE influence... Ever play Blue Dragon? It's a really cool RPG from mistwalker (sakaguchis company)... minus the dragon things... Heh but in all seriousness I really think the company's quality of games took a hit when he left.

 

[Razberry Knight]

I understand a lot of people like X, but for me.. Seymour alone just ruins it for me... His voice actor, his backstory, the theme of FFX itself just didn't feel right to me. While it did have summons and black mages and thiefs, it was pretty linear like FFXIII.. No open world.. Straight paths... Don't get me wrong I'm not saying its bad... It's just every game Squaresoft used to throw at us except a select few... They were excellent from FFIV to FFVII to FFVII to Xenogears... Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross... But at some point in time shit hit the fan. If you look at it... FFX was made by Squaresoft and I believe FFX-2 was the first game under the "Square-Enix" brand... Around this time Hironobu Sakaguchi left. I think right around the release of FFX but before FFXI in may of 2002... Maybe he really was A HUGE influence... Ever play Blue Dragon? It's a really cool RPG. Z minus the dragon things... Heh but in all seriousness I really think the company's quality of games took a hit when he left.

Final Fantas X had more options to roam. ad the battles didn't feel tedious. and they weren't hallways compared to XIII.

i agree that Hironobu Sakaguchi's departure was proably the obvious reason why Square took a left turn. ALso how he made some great games after leaving Square. Bu even then, they were showing signs that even if Sakaguchi stayed, things would still be pretty bad.

 

[Shaissa]

Man how many threads do we need like this????

Alright I am going say this...yet again...

What do you think made Final Fantasy so bad at X or after X?

Final Fantasy has always been an experiment when it comes to RPG's, it has never once been the same game or same level up system or anything. Even before X it was all a new game over and over. That is what I think most people are forgetting. Even when it comes to sequels it was never the same system or anything.
Final Fantasy is taking a new thing and trying it out. sometimes it will work and sometimes it wont. XI was a test for online rpg's and who can blame Square for trying to get into that?
XII was a test of an Open World-ish rpg, almost a sandbox-ish RPG. XIII was testing a whole new system all together. Now sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Look if you wanna say Final Fantasy XIII sucks or whatever it is fine by me. but in reality, look at all the RPG's that sell now days around the world (outside of Japan) I have to say..most of them are Westernized or Action RPG's very few end up being JRPGs, and with that, the whole video game industry is kinda in a huge slope.
So yes you can say "Final Fantasy after X was all terrible" But I can't think of one thing they did wrong.

 

[gregorthegame]

Man how many threads do we need like this????

Alright I am going say this...yet again...

What do you think made Final Fantasy so bad at X or after X?

Final Fantasy has always been an experiment when it comes to RPG's, it has never once been the same game or same level up system or anything. Even before X it was all a new game over and over. That is what I think most people are forgetting. Even when it comes to sequels it was never the same system or anything.
Final Fantasy is taking a new thing and trying it out. sometimes it will work and sometimes it wont. XI was a test for online rpg's and who can blame Square for trying to get into that?
XII was a test of an Open World-ish rpg, almost a sandbox-ish RPG. XIII was testing a whole new system all together. Now sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Look if you wanna say Final Fantasy XIII sucks or whatever it is fine by me. but in reality, look at all the RPG's that sell now days around the world (outside of Japan) I have to say..most of them are Westernized or Action RPG's very few end up being JRPGs, and with that, the whole video game industry is kinda in a huge slope.
So yes you can say "Final Fantasy after X was all terrible" But I can't think of one thing they did wrong.

As many threads as it takes to show how disappointed us fans are.. Apparently you are pleased with what they gave us... I am not. Sorry we don't share the same opinion. Also, I am glad you took your time to respond, even tho it clearly bothers you. I kneel before you in your awesomeness. /sarcasm

 

[Ilyena]

There's no need to get snippy, guys. Keep the discussion civil and let's not insult each other. Thanks.

 

[kratoscar2008]

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Hmm... Is the DECISION by SE as bad as your spelling?

I agree with you on other series taking a hit like resident evil. Silent hill downpour was pretty solid in my opinion... However, Final Fantasy started its downward spiral with FFX and FFX-2.. It came back to life a bit with FFXII.. But then XIII came.... Nuclear bomb.

Anyways... How bout FFX.. They're REMAKING it for the 10th anniversary... That's what SE said anyway... But as we all know we won't see the game until at least the 17th anniversary. Just look at Versus XIII... Versus XIII actually looked decent and was supposed to have an airship AND world map! But uh.... Yeah... No new info! If this company keeps running like this... They'll go from king of RPG makers to... Well... You get the idea.

well unlike SE i dont have a solid background with my spelling (ENGLISH isnt my languaje to boot) as SE has making great games so your point is flawed.

VS i lost hope long ago and regarding FFXHD i think they have canceled it given the vita state so SE will become a full publishing company.

 

[gregorthegame]

well unlike SE i dont have a solid background with my spelling (ENGLISH isnt my languaje to boot) as SE has making great games so your point is flawed.

VS i lost hope long ago and regarding FFXHD i think they have canceled it given the vita state so SE will become a full publishing company.

My point is flawed? The only point I made was that your Spelling was horrendous. I just gave my opinion. I think the stuff SE has put out lately flat out stinks. No doubt they have made great games... Just in my opinion.... Not lately. I've been disappointed with every FF (besides FFXII) Since and INCLUDING FFX.... You can't compare the characters or the worlds from FFIV and FFVI to FFX or FFXIII. No way in Hell. Would you prefer "Tidus and Yuna" over "Cecil and Rosa" Ehhh... not me... YOU may, but not me... Again my opinion... no need to get your panties in a bunch there.

 

[black_eclipse]

XIII isn't entirely linear, as you can go back to previous locations and do some more hunting around and looking for other materials, and some spots open up after you beat the game. X is linear compared to all the other FF's in that you can't just go explore the world leisurely and the game kind of holds your hand through the entire game. Is that necessarily bad? No. But it does take away from Final Fantasy.

Last time I checked, you can go back at some place later in the game using the save sphere. That is what Cid and his aircraft came for.

Also, you don't need to beat the game to unlock the sidequest in FFX. Dark Aeons are example.

 

[Shaissa]

As many threads as it takes to show how disappointed us fans are.. Apparently you are pleased with what they gave us... I am not. Sorry we don't share the same opinion. Also, I am glad you took your time to respond, even tho it clearly bothers you. I kneel before you in your awesomeness. /sarcasm

All I was doing was giving an opinion sorry if you felt that It was an attack, I just kinda laugh at how many of these threads were made that they could go into one thread...

But I will this...

What makes a Final Fantasy game a Final Fantasy game in your opinion?
They don't follow the same protocols ever, leveling up system is always different. Story, Characters, gameplay, all are different.
So when you Say "Final Fantasy is on a downhill" How can it be when it was never a stationary game like... Zelda, or Fire Emblem (from what i understand I only played two of them)

I mean I understand if you don't like X-XIII or whatever numbers you don't like, I'm just saying that Square has done what they always do with Final Fantasy...try and make it new, might not be to every fans liking, but they need to attract new fans also, which is what X-XIII did.