World of FF - why it doesn't get it.

Razberry Knight

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When i made the original WoFF topic, i made it with the intention of the reader understanding my views, and everything going forward was to achieve that point (in fact, that's exactly why i wanted to leave the Final Fantasy community in general when it comes to the internet because no one really wants to understand, they just say they do, and they end it). I also know that an official FF15 forum will not allow to heavily question the developers, its jut there for show. so getting my word out in a place that might change the chances of purchase could be an issue.

But i'll make myself heard (and understood) here specifically about WoFF. those who have no intention of understanding, you are not welcomed, because you can't convince me otherwise without first understanding.

Although the return of ATB is great. it really depends on the right circumstances, and fans have made that as an active topic recently. not too long ago, didn't people bash the idea of an FF7 remake having turn-base, and fans accepted it more once confirmed that it wasn't? And yet, when WoFF was announced, it was easily accepted? And for what reason? Looking at the gameplay indept, of course their showing off the flashy summons to make the battle system more interesting. But if that was the case, why can't FF7 keep its ATV system?

This game is going to be made by up-and-coming director Hiroki Chiba who claims was around FF6's time although his credited works are mostly event planner and scenario writer. but hey, every FF cast member has to start somewhere right? Tetsuya Nomura created FF7 and that was a great hit....and despite how much i hate the man, Motomu Toriyama started on FFX-2 and that was....not-so-great.



Why you should be worried just as i am:

#1) Misunderstanding of the series new up-and-coming director, despite well intentions, seems to miss the point over all and how Final Fantasy has been so successful, and how it makes the series so great. First off, he well intends to make this game as an introductory to a new generation. (which generation is a vague term, every decade, a new generation is born, and i'm still in my early 20s and gaming hasn't changed all that much in terms of what people want or what they want to see).

Potentially Each Final Fantasy game has been an introductory to the series. Its actually how we are able to get more and more fans into the series. This is especially true when there's a launch of a new console. People are well-aware any game that comes out early in launch or at least a new game in the latest console that it will be designed for newcomers. (this is also where the trend of HD remaster collections are born).

Granted, FF is older than me, but the changes so far were evolutionary, refining and expanding of what the FF series was. But also, as people's taste dont just grow with FF, they grow with other series that we enjoy. So to make a chibi-style FF game just to target a new generation seems like he's trying to say "we believe the new generation prefer chibi, and with this game, we'll be introducing chibi FF" and if that's the case, this can easily lead to "we will be seeing more chibi-style FF games for those who liked the chibi-style games". Which FF was never about (not even when FF used the horrid Monster Octopus designs, was it welcomed heavily by both new and old)

#2) Not well designed compared to other big console games.
Sad thing is, this game isn't exactly selling a solid moving story, their not even selling great characters. Is this what an introductory to FF should be? or let me rephrase, should this be the highlight of the next generation? Keep in mind, the designs dont look that solid. I by no means hate chibi design, but everything else seems like its trying to be a mixture of bad-ass designs with chibi, a mixture that looks heavily incoherent especially when they interact.

For example: the chibi characters mouths move in this stop-motion style while the others move fluidly as if they actual physical mouths. And these characters interact at the same time. the world of course looks nicely designed. but it looks more like a theme park then a "world". With that said, the bland characters makes it harder to appreciate as well, with less than original designs. In fact, it seems like its all about monster capturing....and that's where the crux of it is. since all the monsters and characters look chibi, is it appealing to capture monsters? granted, Pokemon were cute (but they weren't cute in a forceful way, they gave each monster a unique fluid design). Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker also shares similar ideas but just like Pokemon, the monsters were fluid and felt liek they all fit in this world.

WoFF looks more like "Land of FF" (if you know what i mean). But FF is indeed trying to gain a new audience with it, or rather build a new IP witihin the already existing IP (which means more split community).

#3) Overall, a major distraction from other games we should be focused on.

Final fantasy is shifting, more and more mediocre games have been. i stayed a fan simply because i can tolerate them being in the lesser consoles, but i would not be able to stand if a full-budget for a main console like PS4/XBone/PC would be waisted on a more casual game. especially if its intended to build a fanbase that we knwo will exist regardless if this game exists.
 
I can see you're very passionate about the FF franchise, and I do see where you're coming from with this. When I first saw the trailer for WoFF, I honestly had no clue who SE was intending to market this game for. I mean it has a over cutesy design that seems to cater to smaller kids, yet it has all these characters and references that only longtime fans will pick up on. But as an older fan myself, I've been longing for a FF title that was more serious with deep characterisation and an interesting plot (13 failed in all aspects, except maybe the mythos). So the chibi-style is not appealing to me in the slightest, and I'm sure alot of people feel the same.
And yeah, this title seems to lack the qualities of a home console title, and not just in the graphics department.

Also the kid-oriented appeal seems like a poor move on square's part anyway. The majority of FF sales mostly occur in the western market where the average gamer is; get this, on average between their thirties and forties. Not kids. But unfortunately Japan still has that outdated view that games are only for little kids.

Seriously the best choice for square would propably be to focus their larger titles for the western audience rather than japanese. But it's just my opinion.
 
I think the audience for WoFF is very obvious: Japan. That's why it's coming to Vita, that's why it's chibi, that's why it's a mashup of Final Fantasy games the series over. Final Fantasy is constantly getting slightly odd promotions in Japan, by the way. Recent examples would be Noctis perfume and Bahamut burgers, but it doesn't stop there.

So I don't think it's a matter of "we believe the new generation prefer chibi, and with this game, we'll be introducing chibi FF" at all. It's a matter of "everyone else in Japan is doing it, so we're doing it, and because it's Final Fantasy and will sell in the west we're bringing it there too." I wouldn't consider this a sign of what's to come at all, just a reminder that these things come from Japan.
 
I must be in the big minority because I'm for sure buying this game for the vita, and maybe the ps4 as well. It looked really fun and it's absolutely adorable! From the sounds of it I belong in Japan because I'd eat this stuff up.
 
Also the kid-oriented appeal seems like a poor move on square's part anyway. The majority of FF sales mostly occur in the western market where the average gamer is; get this, on average between their thirties and forties. Not kids. But unfortunately Japan still has that outdated view that games are only for little kids.

Seriously the best choice for Square would probably be to focus their larger titles for the western audience rather than japanese. But it's just my opinion.

I'm not sure where you grabbed your numbers, but Final Fantasy tends to almost sell better in Japan than any other country... If you combine America and Europe than you might have more sales for some of the games, but to focus on western audience rather than the Japanese market would be a HUGE mistake for them.

But to get back on topic.

I kinda see where you are coming from Razberry, I mean this game does seem "out of place" in the main consoles of Final Fantasy when you look at the main series and the other Final Fantasy games that were released on the big consoles in the past. At the same time, I think this game can be another one of those "complication" games as I have started to call them. the Dissidia's and basically all of them that try to combine all the Final Fantasy games into one game, which taking it from that approach, why put it on PS4? I think this game is actually going to do something we haven't seen yet (don't ask me what that is, I have no idea yet.)
Really I only hear a little bit here and there about this game, the biggest news is coming from Final Fantasy XV and VII remake. which leads me to one point I am questioning, which is your third point, what is this distracting us from? I mean the major FF games that people have been waiting for are getting all the news and the talk and the work. Now I am sure this game is using resources, but it isn't like FFXV where they were pulling people away from it to work on other titles (back when it was still versus.)

Now as far as how I feel about this game, I don't think this is targeting only the Japanese audience, I think it's a weird game that can go either way. I mean I will probably try it when it comes out...and a few price drops happen or it goes on sale.... but I am not worried about it. I don't think this is going turn into a game that really divides the fans like XIII did in the Western market.
 
I kinda see where you are coming from Razberry, I mean this game does seem "out of place" in the main consoles of Final Fantasy when you look at the main series and the other Final Fantasy games that were released on the big consoles in the past. At the same time, I think this game can be another one of those "complication" games as I have started to call them. the Dissidia's and basically all of them that try to combine all the Final Fantasy games into one game, which taking it from that approach, why put it on PS4? I think this game is actually going to do something we haven't seen yet (don't ask me what that is, I have no idea yet.)
Again, Dissidia is completely different from World of FF. World of FF is trying to be its own individual series to introduce people to FF.

World of FF is more of a game trying to bank on what Dissidia has already established. Dissidia was a unique and had enough to stand on its own. it was a game that challenged things. A fighter-type with an action RPG with a story that can be called a "final fantasy" story? That sold incredibly well just on that.

However, World of FF isn't trying to live up to regular standards, not trying to captivate you with characters or story. its doing the opposite. Its trying to sell the chibi side stuff. The charaters intentionally joke about the story, the world is quirky but not captivating. Its a game you "try" just to see if it has redeeming qualities.
Really I only hear a little bit here and there about this game, the biggest news is coming from Final Fantasy XV and VII remake. which leads me to one point I am questioning, which is your third point, what is this distracting us from? I mean the major FF games that people have been waiting for are getting all the news and the talk and the work. Now I am sure this game is using resources, but it isn't like FFXV where they were pulling people away from it to work on other titles (back when it was still versus.)
I mentioned this before FF7Remake, but ultimately its distracting us from the point that Square Enix doesn't have a lot of quality games. they have good "promises" but they are now slowly running out of things to promise us. FFXV is coming, FF7remake is coming, are they here?not yet. But what they need is more promises. Ones that feel that are coming much closer.

I can guarantee you World of FF is one of the first games we'll be seeing.
Now as far as how I feel about this game, I don't think this is targeting only the Japanese audience, I think it's a weird game that can go either way. I mean I will probably try it when it comes out...and a few price drops happen or it goes on sale.... but I am not worried about it. I don't think this is going turn into a game that really divides the fans like XIII did in the Western market.

Its like FF13, but not in the sense that it will split fans. But just like FF13 was their scapegoat of releasing more mediocore games. The "Dissidia" model has just been Square Enix's new scapegoat to release more games that fans can call high-quality.
 
Frankly, I'm really tired of tongue in cheek JRPGs. Why should I care about the characters or story, if the game ITSELF doesn't care. It's impossible to get invested in any of it. I mean Dissidia took some liberties with itself to make it work, but still took it's own story seriously. I cared about what happened in it. But nearly every JRPG to come out for the last 5+ years have gone the "look how self aware we are, lol, video games am I right" path similar to Disgaea. And it's downright obnoxious. When was the last time a JRPG wasn't some otaku-pandering bullcrap or a shallow parody of video game tropes.
 
Frankly, I'm really tired of tongue in cheek JRPGs. Why should I care about the characters or story, if the game ITSELF doesn't care. It's impossible to get invested in any of it. I mean Dissidia took some liberties with itself to make it work, but still took it's own story seriously. I cared about what happened in it. But nearly every JRPG to come out for the last 5+ years have gone the "look how self aware we are, lol, video games am I right" path similar to Disgaea. And it's downright obnoxious. When was the last time a JRPG wasn't some otaku-pandering bullcrap or a shallow parody of video game tropes.

I couldn't have said it better.
 
I think there are a lot of fans that yearn for FF to go back to the way it was during it's prime, but that prime in of itself is subjective. The series has always been evolving and branching out into media outside the mainstream games. Nostalgia just blinds some of us to that fact. Before World of FF, there was FF Mystic Quests. The game was designed to appeal to gamers new to the RPG genre, but it didn’t really accomplish its goal. It didn’t sell all that well and it ranked pretty low on the FF scale of popularity. Still, Square didn’t let the failing stop them from trying out more spin-offs. After amassing a sizable collection of mascots, Square threw together Chocobo Racing and FF Fables--games designed with chibi, mascot cuteness as their main selling points. Toss in the Itadaki Street Special games, and you have even more chibi fun.

In sum, what I’m trying to say is that spin-offs created to recruit more fans have been around since FF became serialized. The truth is, SE isn't doing anything all that differently from Squaresoft. The only real difference between the past and present is that SE now has a larger budget and base audience to work with. SE can afford to make more spin-offs and branch out farther than the company could have in the 90's. As a result, we see that the frequency of spin-offs has greatly increased, whereas the creation and release of mainstream FF titles has staggered. The reason for this is that unlike the spin-offs, mainstream game titles have to meet high aesthetic and technical standards. The FF franchise is known for pushing the boundaries of video game graphics. Each FF is more than just a game; it's an exhibit of groundbreaking technological achievements. Spin-offs don't have to live up to those standards; they just need to be crammed full of recognizable mascots.

Also, I agree with what AuronX has said. Don't forget that the main market for FF is, and always will be, Japan. The Japanese audience is the primary target for almost all FF games, related media and merchandise. SE understands the Japanese market more than they do our Western market, which is why products that have done well in Japan have sometimes failed abroad.

Don't look at the spin-offs as an indication of where the mainstream FF titles are headed. After all, if we were to judge the success of mainstream titles based off the success of spin-offs, then FFV should’ve tanked since Mystic Quest, which came out the same year, performed poorly. If the spin-offs aren’t your cup of tea, then ignore them. No one will fault you for that. I personally haven't played half the spin-offs that have been released and have no desire to do so even though I consider the FF series to be my all-time favorite game franchise. Spin-offs aren’t designed to be the main FF games; they’re primarily created for fanservice and, as in the case of World of FF, to appeal to an expanding fanbase.
 
Mr. Revolution

I don't hate spin offs. In fact this entire time I've been distinguishing good spin offs vs bad. Recently SE has been branching out even further. But they have been branching out "lazily". They slap a generic easy to work design (monster octopus) and throw it all in there.

WORLD of FF doesn't look as bad as it originally did. But it still has some hang ups. First off they are claiming that they are ambitious when they really aren't.

World of FF is a sign of something less. Back then when we received a spin off, we received a spin off that gave it justice to the name "Final Fantasy". FF tactics was a game that really worked well.

Ff mystic Quest although flopped was genuinely ambitious of marketing. Were they heavily misguided? Definitely. But none of what was shown seemed "lazy". Everything felt like a beginners guide to RPG. I actually believe it has potential to be reworked into a full fledged RPG.

Ff Adventures was a FF game that tried to be more like Zelda and that gave birth to the Mana series.

FF Dissidia was a game that was going to bring all FF characters into the same universe. That was groundbreaking since it was never done. Its a literal crossover and they really pushed for what was justified. They had to add proper story and mechanics and make them feel like they we're ripped from their respected universe.

Granted, other FF games weren't that great. Ff tactics, tactics advance and A2 did not do the ivalice universe justice at all. They we're entertaining but easily did not attempt to add depth. Even Ff xii: revenant wings although entertaining ruined the ffxii series.

But look at the games of now vs today. Back then their marketing ploy wasn't s obvious as it is now. WORLD OF FF, FF explorers, and Theatrhythm FF, are not "spin offs" per se, but rather marketing gimmicks.

Ff explorers feels like an empty shell of the Monster Hunter series, World of FF looks like it's doing the same thing but with the addition of combining chibi designs, and Theathrhythm is just a generic rhythm game. Lets also look at other spin offs on smartphone. let's look at Record keeper, a highly successful FF game that all it does is play with nostalgia in te guise of a game. Ff ATB did that as well and failed.

Don't get the point? Let me spell it out for you: I love spin offs. I believe spin offs is what saves the day when there is a main series title that didn't do it for me. Dissidia and Birth by Sleep kept me from quitting Ff after the horrible ff13 trilogy. I'm not exagerrating, those years were BRUTAL.

Not every spin off is going to be amazing. But te spin offs in recent years feel more and more like marketing ploys with half ass story and just like Thule Esparada has said, games that have become so self aware.
 
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Back then when we received a spin off, we received a spin off that gave it justice to the name "Final Fantasy".

I don’t think Mystic Quest falls into that category. It sold poorly and received reviews to match. Yes, it had potential as you've claimed, but the same could be said of many failed games. In a case like this where everything comes down to the final released product, unrealized potential is the same as having no potential because there won't be a second chance.

The other spin-offs are open to subjective view. Personally, I don’t like gimmicky racing games, so I don’t know how high I’d rate Chocobo Racing, which is another FF spin-off that received mediocre ratings. I can’t comment on FF Adventures having never played it, though some quick research shows that it did perform relatively well. All in all, I think we can split the reception of Squaresoft spin-offs down the middle. Some did well while others underperformed.

Your comments about FF Tactics are confusing. At first you say this:
FF tactics was a game that really worked well.

But then you say this:

Granted, other FF games weren't that great. Ff tactics[…]did not do the ivalice universe justice at all.

So…is FF Tactics good or not good in your point of view? It can’t be both lol.

Even Ff xii: revenant wings although entertaining ruined the ffxii series.

I think it’s a bit extreme to say that it “ruined” the FFXII series. That’s purely a subjective notion. I didn’t care much for RW, either, but I still regard FFXII and any other potential spin-offs with high esteem. For instance, that canceled FFXII spin-off looked pretty interesting.

But look at the games of now vs today. Back then their marketing ploy wasn't s obvious as it is now. WORLD OF FF, FF explorers, and Theatrhythm FF, are not "spin offs" per se, but rather marketing gimmicks.

I think you have a fair point on the one hand. FF games are known for their high standard of quality and don’t usually rely on gimmicky motifs like we’ve been seeing with games like Theatrythm. However, on the other hand, I can see where SE is coming from: they need quick, easy-to-sell games that have mass appeal in order to keep profits up during the interim between main FF releases. They can’t afford to have any lulls between the numbered games. Since these cookie-cutter games don’t take as much time to produce as quality spin-offs, it isn’t hard to understand why the company is relying on them. So yes, I think it’s fair to say that some of the inventive aptitude found in some spin-offs doesn’t translate to all spin-offs, but this is easily explained using the concept of “quantity over quality”. They need quick, easy padding, and so far, it’s working. The Japanese love these cookie-cutter, cutesy games.

I'm not exagerrating, those years were BRUTAL.

I don’t think you’re exaggerating at all. FFXIII seems to be the most polarizing FF to date. It’s split the fanbase firmly in half and is one of those either “love it” or “hate it” games. The trouble is, we’re not quite out of the woods yet. XV could go either way, and I don’t think you’re going to see an end to these “lazy” spin-offs any time soon. The fact of the matter is, these types of games sell in Japan, and that’s why they’ll keep multiplying. If they stopped selling, then SE would have to rethink their business itinerary and strategy.

I’m not necessarily disagreeing with your overarching complaint; I think it’d be nice to see some more originality and depth coming out of these spin-offs. However, practically speaking, I don’t think that’s going to happen anytime soon. SE is making games they know will sell, either by using familiar mascots and characters, or by implementing easy to recognize gameplay mechanics. If it was known to sell in the past, it’s a safe bet it will sell again in the future. SE, like most companies, wants to play it safe with its investments. While I do empathize with your frustration, the unfortunate reality is we’re just going to have to look past these hollow games and focus on the few, sparkling gems still coming out of the mine.
 
I don’t think Mystic Quest falls into that category. It sold poorly and received reviews to match. Yes, it had potential as you've claimed, but the same could be said of many failed games. In a case like this where everything comes down to the final released product, unrealized potential is the same as having no potential because there won't be a second chance.
Mystic Quest has grown into a popular guilty pleasure among fans. But even so, FF Mystic Quest entire design was intended to be a beginners guide to RPG or rather an RPG to market to those who weren't familiar with them. Which is why it's main influences at the time were Nintendo games.



The other spin-offs are open to subjective view. Personally, I don’t like gimmicky racing games, so I don’t know how high I’d rate Chocobo Racing, which is another FF spin-off that received mediocre ratings. I can’t comment on FF Adventures having never played it, though some quick research shows that it did perform relatively well. All in all, I think we can split the reception of Squaresoft spin-offs down the middle. Some did well while others underperformed. [/quote] Square enix has confirmed that the Chocobo series is not part of the FF franchise. And it holds up to be true because the only time Chocobo games ever had "Final Fantasy" in the title was a marketing gimmick by the western branches. In Japan they aren't called Ff fables.



So…is FF Tactics good or not good in your point of view? It can’t be both lol.
FF tactics "games" weren't that great. The original FF tactics however is a different notion.

What I'm trying to say is that FF tactics sequels weren't design to live up to the name "FFtactics" they just focused on tactical game play and made a Be excuse of a story.


I think it’s a bit extreme to say that it “ruined” the FFXII series. That’s purely a subjective notion. I didn’t care much for RW, either, but I still regard FFXII and any other potential spin-offs with high esteem. For instance, that canceled FFXII spin-off looked pretty interesting.
If you are talking about Fortress, I'm sure all of us wanted to see how the outcome would be, but we all know it wouldn't have resembled anything like FF12.

I don't disregard potential sequels and spin offs to ff12. Its one of my favorite games out there. BUT Ff12RW didn't tried hard enough to stay true to the ending of Ff12, and brought up a BS Side arc, with BS race.


I think you have a fair point on the one hand. FF games are known for their high standard of quality and don’t usually rely on gimmicky motifs like we’ve been seeing with games like Theatrythm. However, on the other hand, I can see where SE is coming from: they need quick, easy-to-sell games that have mass appeal in order to keep profits up during the interim between main FF releases. They can’t afford to have any lulls between the numbered games. Since these cookie-cutter games don’t take as much time to produce as quality spin-offs, it isn’t hard to understand why the company is relying on them. So yes, I think it’s fair to say that some of the inventive aptitude found in some spin-offs doesn’t translate to all spin-offs, but this is easily explained using the concept of “quantity over quality”. They need quick, easy padding, and so far, it’s working. The Japanese love these cookie-cutter, cutesy games.
your answer is basically Se needs low budget, and easy to sell games. Which I don't have a problem with, but I remember enjoying some of their spin offs back then. These days they are so obvious.


I don’t think you’re exaggerating at all. FFXIII seems to be the most polarizing FF to date. It’s split the fanbase firmly in half and is one of those either “love it” or “hate it” games. The trouble is, we’re not quite out of the woods yet. XV could go either way, and I don’t think you’re going to see an end to these “lazy” spin-offs any time soon. The fact of the matter is, these types of games sell in Japan, and that’s why they’ll keep multiplying. If they stopped selling, then SE would have to rethink their business itinerary and strategy.
and this is my problem. SE rely on the quick and easy schemes that only gets them by so much. Rather than putting 30% more integrity into their work and really make a game that can stand with small budget, they can gain more.
I’m not necessarily disagreeing with your overarching complaint; I think it’d be nice to see some more originality and depth coming out of these spin-offs. However, practically speaking, I don’t think that’s going to happen anytime soon. SE is making games they know will sell, either by using familiar mascots and characters, or by implementing easy to recognize gameplay mechanics. If it was known to sell in the past, it’s a safe bet it will sell again in the future. SE, like most companies, wants to play it safe with its investments. While I do empathize with your frustration, the unfortunate reality is we’re just going to have to look past these hollow games and focus on the few, sparkling gems still coming out of the mine.
Which for me I have not a single FF game to look forward to. I can't follow behind a game ripped out of someone else's concept and turn it into their own which is becoming more eerily basic and familiar to their past games (FF Xv is resembling ff type 0 more and more).

And as for ff7 remake, I don't buy incomplete games ever. So what a left kingdom hearts 3? A series that is so convoluted and relies on hd remasters to retell the story.

I can see why people back up kick starter campaignes of spiritual successors. Because they focus on what made the games good in the first place. And even sequels people have been wanting are becoming backed too.
 
Which for me I have not a single FF game to look forward to. I can't follow behind a game ripped out of someone else's concept and turn it into their own which is becoming more eerily basic and familiar to their past games (FF Xv is resembling ff type 0 more and more).

And as for ff7 remake, I don't buy incomplete games ever. So what a left kingdom hearts 3? A series that is so convoluted and relies on hd remasters to retell the story.

I can see why people back up kick starter campaignes of spiritual successors. Because they focus on what made the games good in the first place. And even sequels people have been wanting are becoming backed too.

Gee, friend, I don't know what to tell you... If you feel that strongly that the latest trends in mainstream FF and KH aren't your cup of tea anymore, maybe it's time to look at other JRPGs? We can keep going back and forth about SE's business practices until the cows come home, but that's not going to produce a game for you, let alone one you'll be happy playing. All I can do is offer some suggestions by ways of FF-like games that I've found to be comparable to the classics. Xenoblade Chronicles is a good one, and the strong friendship theme in Tales of Graces reminds me of a cross between FF and KH. Aside from that, I don't know much about SE's itinerary after FFXV and KH3 have been released, so I can't even offer up a consoling thought about a future title.
 
Mr. Revolution unfortunately FF has been becoming more and more to the "go to" JRPG.

When it comes to JRPGs, they now fall in opposite ends of the spectrum, either they don't follow any of what made the series strong in the first place (or screw an entire group of loyalists in the process) OR! we get these cheap self aware games like the at rhythm, record keeper, explorers and world of ff. Which my opinion of world of ff has lessened but.

JRPGs aren't trying to be original. Look at Hyper dimension Neptunia and Atelier series. They aren't bad games (finally bought one) but they keep spewing out more and more.

I remember when JRPGs weren't self aware. That they considered themselves as the general RPG and focused on making them for all nations. Now they are aware that that term jrpg is out there and only focus on making it for Japan because they know otakus will buy.

I'm not a huge fan of Xenoblade chronicles x. I have no hope in ff anymore. Its becoming one of those series that knows it's Japanese. And there's a huge difference between a game that comes from Japan and a game intended for Japanese.

I remember when Se didn't cater to the lowest common denominator.
 
It's pretty hard to substantiate the argument that earlier FF games or JRPGs in general were made for all nations. These days we're very lucky to get as many games localized as we do, and thanks to the internet we are aware of games in other regions we otherwise would have no idea even exist. Remember, it was a lack of localizations that led Final Fantasy IV to being originally released in the west as Final Fantasy II, and as beloved as FFVII is to some people, its entire English script was done on a low budget by one guy and was both grammatically and functionally flawed. It really wasn't until FFX that the west saw a Final Fantasy game that was given the same level of treatment as the original Japanese version, and FFX was heavily inspired by Okinawa for its island atmosphere. I'll give you that early FF games were set in a medieval European universe, but that should really be seen as coincidental over any attempt at being culture-agnostic.

Also I think Mr. Revolution meant to recommend Xenoblade Chronicles, not Xenoblade Chronicles X. There is a huge difference between the two games. Honestly if Xenoblade Chronicles (not X) doesn't satisfy your urge for the golden days of Final Fantasy, I don't know what will. It was made by ex-Squaresoft employees and definitely has the vibe of 90s JRPGs.
 
I remember when JRPGs weren't self aware. That they considered themselves as the general RPG and focused on making them for all nations. Now they are aware that that term jrpg is out there and only focus on making it for Japan because they know otakus will buy.

Erm, no. Square didn't begin its grand scale global marketing campaign until the PS2-era FFs were released. Because of this, it isn't accurate to claim that Square was designing its games for global, multicultural appeal during the 90's. What is true, however, is that SE is presently making a push for global appeal, which is why you've been witnessing a push to boost Western marketing. FF developers have been traveling all over Europe and the US to attend gaming conferences in order to sell their latest titles to the global fanbase, which is something they did not do in the 90's.

And there's a huge difference between a game that comes from Japan and a game intended for Japanese.

Not always. Cultural boundaries exist. Sometimes, people from one culture don't realize that their reality--which is grounded within their shared culture, history, and beliefs--is not shared by everyone outside that culture. Take FFXIII for an example. Most Westerners dislike XIII, and yet this is not true of most Japanese gamers. The XIII trilogy performed relatively well in Japan and Lightning is a very popular promotional character, whereas those successes don't exist abroad. This isn't because FFXIII was intentionally exclusive for the Japanese audience. To the contrary, there was a major push by SE to appeal to the global fanbase. FFXIII was heavily advertised to the Western audience and Yoichi Wada, the CEO of SE at the time, went so far as to personally announce all major developments in the game to the Western audience. He even attached Leona Lewis, a popular Western pop singer, to the project in order to appeal even greater to the Western audience.

However, the marketing campaign, while it did succeed in selling units, failed to please Western gamers once they've actually played the game. This isn't because SE didn't have the Western audience in mind when they were trying to sell the game; it's because they didn't anticipate that the thematic cultural undertones of the story wouldn't be appreciated, accepted, and ultimately understood by that Western audience. In other words, the game is speaking a language that only a select group of people (in this case, the Japanese) understand, but it wasn't designed that way intentionally. Sometimes games that come from one culture can appeal to multiple cultures. But sometimes they don't, and not because they were necessarily intended to be obscure or incomprehensible to foreigners.

Also, like AuronX said, I had suggested Xenoblade Chronicles, not the sequel. The first XC is spiritually on par with Final Fantasy and I think you would enjoy it.
 
The original Xenoblade Chronicles is propably the only good -jrpg to come out last console generation, which isn't really saying much. But it's story and characters were compelling to me. Unfortunately I never finished it because of the open world rpg BS they filled it with. The main story apparently isn't that long, yet it's filled with 60+ hours of fetch quests and other MMO style 10 wolf pelt farming missions etc. The quests don't even have any meaningful rewards, except a few, but to get to those quests you need to go through about 20-40 crap quests. It's the same thing I despise in games like TES or Fallout. Quantity over quality. No substance.
 
Erm, no. Square didn't begin its grand scale global marketing campaign until the PS2-era FFs were released. Because of this, it isn't accurate to claim that Square was designing its games for global, multicultural appeal during the 90's. What is true, however, is that SE is presently making a push for global appeal, which is why you've been witnessing a push to boost Western marketing. FF developers have been traveling all over Europe and the US to attend gaming conferences in order to sell their latest titles to the global fanbase, which is something they did not do in the 90's.

Thats not what I meant. What I was referring to was the latest games are based on this self aware attitude of what FF is (as a franchise).

For example, back then we would receive spin off sequels, spin offs that eventually became their own series and compilations. But now since Dissidia, FF has been more self aware. They are releasing games based on previous iconic characters.

Its basically how Nintendo made super smash bros, or Mario party or Mario sports. Back then, Se at most used them as cameos.

Now it's different.
 
#1) Misunderstanding of the series new up-and-coming director, despite well intentions, seems to miss the point over all and how Final Fantasy has been so successful, and how it makes the series so great. First off, he well intends to make this game as an introductory to a new generation. (which generation is a vague term, every decade, a new generation is born, and i'm still in my early 20s and gaming hasn't changed all that much in terms of what people want or what they want to see).

Potentially Each Final Fantasy game has been an introductory to the series. Its actually how we are able to get more and more fans into the series. This is especially true when there's a launch of a new console. People are well-aware any game that comes out early in launch or at least a new game in the latest console that it will be designed for newcomers. (this is also where the trend of HD remaster collections are born).

Granted, FF is older than me, but the changes so far were evolutionary, refining and expanding of what the FF series was. But also, as people's taste dont just grow with FF, they grow with other series that we enjoy. So to make a chibi-style FF game just to target a new generation seems like he's trying to say "we believe the new generation prefer chibi, and with this game, we'll be introducing chibi FF" and if that's the case, this can easily lead to "we will be seeing more chibi-style FF games for those who liked the chibi-style games". Which FF was never about (not even when FF used the horrid Monster Octopus designs, was it welcomed heavily by both new and old)

I kinda agree. In my opinion they're trying too hard to please the wrong crowd and they're losing the huge fan-base they had during the time they created amazing games. Chibi style isn't something I'm interested in either, and I think they should keep that nonsense (sorry to those who do like it) for their FF side-games, not the main series.

Razberry Knight said:
#2) Not well designed compared to other big console games.
Razberry Knight said:
Sad thing is, this game isn't exactly selling a solid moving story, their not even selling great characters. Is this what an introductory to FF should be? or let me rephrase, should this be the highlight of the next generation? Keep in mind, the designs dont look that solid. I by no means hate chibi design, but everything else seems like its trying to be a mixture of bad-ass designs with chibi, a mixture that looks heavily incoherent especially when they interact.

For example: the chibi characters mouths move in this stop-motion style while the others move fluidly as if they actual physical mouths. And these characters interact at the same time. the world of course looks nicely designed. but it looks more like a theme park then a "world". With that said, the bland characters makes it harder to appreciate as well, with less than original designs. In fact, it seems like its all about monster capturing....and that's where the crux of it is. since all the monsters and characters look chibi, is it appealing to capture monsters? granted, Pokemon were cute (but they weren't cute in a forceful way, they gave each monster a unique fluid design). Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker also shares similar ideas but just like Pokemon, the monsters were fluid and felt liek they all fit in this world.

WoFF looks more like "Land of FF" (if you know what i mean). But FF is indeed trying to gain a new audience with it, or rather build a new IP witihin the already existing IP (which means more split community).

Agreed. I think a major factor that a lot of FF games are lacking these days is because they're trying to push out all of these things at once. They're not giving appropriate time (in my opinion) to the games like they used to anymore. Soon here, they'll be turning FF into CoD. Cloud going around knifing people with a mini buster sword? Oh man.

Razberry Knight said:
#3) Overall, a major distraction from other games we should be focused on.

Final fantasy is shifting, more and more mediocre games have been. i stayed a fan simply because i can tolerate them being in the lesser consoles, but i would not be able to stand if a full-budget for a main console like PS4/XBone/PC would be waisted on a more casual game. especially if its intended to build a fanbase that we knwo will exist regardless if this game exists.
That doesn't really apply to me that I'm distracted by FF. When I say I'm a Final Fantasy fan I most refer to VII, VIII, IX, XII and XIV. Everything that mostly came after X-2 (not a fan of those either) seems crap and mass-produced one after another.
 
The biggest issue I have is that it doesn't take much to be somewhat original. I can forgive cliche story if it at least tried to bring something new that all ff fans can enjoy.

And that's probably why I can't get behind World of FF. They are spending good money to make it, it's definitely a HQ game. Butif they are willing to make the financial risk, how come there isn't enough attempt to appeal to a broader audience?

Imagine if the next big budget spin off is geared only toward kids. The double negative when it comes to mature games is that Se has always geared toward mature and kids we're a byproduct of such marketing. Just like how kids today play call of duty, we played RPGs
And rated T was a bigger deal back then.

Games we're different then too. Relied more on design than the quality in graphics. Unless you we're apart of the console wars, then you probably over analyzed it.


I don't mind chibi designs. Thats why there's ff3 and ff4 and crystal chronicles on the DS. But in a sense those games didn't advertise the chibiness. Those games advertised how fun and mysterious this place is.


When you look into World of Ff? It looks fun in some parts but just confusing to look at in others. you have over the top camera angles with pretty linear paths when you traverse in some areas, so it feels more like a "land" than a world.

And of course these areas are the design of the monsters and enemies and characters themselves. Only barely resembling them but just not aesthetically pleasing. You can't tell me All the design choices are good.

The monsters look like clay, and the characters look like It came oit of kingdom hearts fanfic. where is the attempt to make an iconic or recognizable characters? Where are the unique enemies you just got to see and fight?
 
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