What do you think of people coming to Britain etc.

[SapphireStar]

Also, concur with Saix. Fuck off and fix your own country instead of ruining ours.

Testify daddy-o

 

[Doc Holliday]

Testify daddy-o

Quoted for Truth

 

[Cactuar]

As Britain is waaaay smaller than America, the imigrant population congestion is a bigger problem, obviously,....

There is also an imigrant problem in Poland, somewhat smaller.....imigrants from Belarus and other smaller eastern European states are being employed in Poland, mainly for manual work, buliding football stadiums etc.
These imigrants, and very poor economy managment caused by the inadequate Polish government, is forcing the lower working classes to look for work abroad.....and coming to Britain...

So why are they allowed to come to Britain of all places, already full of imigrants from other countries, i may be mistaken, but i don't think that France allowed foreign workers to come in to their country....and yes it is actually ridiculous how they are given so many benefits, making the native British person almost a second class citizen, and they don't even bother to learn the language!

What might happen is, as Britain's reliance on cheap foreign labour continues, native manual trades might altogether disappear, or they will be forced to work elsewhere in the EU......see where this is going?

 

[Jazzel]

Learn the language for the love of God.

For heavens sake, most immigrants have just moved here. Do you expect them to learn English to a naturalised level within a few months? What if you were forced to learn French to a refined, advanced level within two months, could you?
The fact that most immigrants take the time to learn the language, often to a better standard than most Brits.

Thing is the area I live in, (and for all the good that there is) it has bad housing estates, high unemployment, seemingly bad schools, crime etc. And that was with Scottish people as it is. That last thing we need is people from a different country, getting our houses from the councils, taking the little jobs we have or the benefits, filling our classrooms and colleges making our schools cramped and taking a now equal part in crime.

As a fellow Glaswegian, you know that what you’ve said is pretty much false. Immigrants have not exacerbated a problem - that problem was already there, caused by 16 years of a Thatcherite government bent on destroying traditional Scottish industries.
Let’s consider this simple fact .Immigrants are often the intelligentsia of their former country - the academics, the teachers, the doctors. This is because, in any country with political or economic upheaval, the educated classes are the first to flee.
So, considering this, immigrants often bring new skills to regenerate communities.

Ever heard of a careers officer?? They get people to do it for them. No need to try and get smart.

And how, pray tell, would people with little English know what, where to find, and how to communicate with, a careers advisor?

Investing time on this subject to develop an opinion other than that just... aggravates me.

So it’s wrong to have a different opinion than others on such topics?

Why should an immigrant be allowed free University education, when British citizens are still required to pay the rather hefty sums?

If you lived in England or Wales, I would say - fair point. To resolve this, we should just scrap loans altogether, so University is free for everyone to the point of delivery.
However, because you live in Scotland, University is already free, so your argument makes no sense. I hope I may have allayed any of your fears over paying University fees - simple answer, their isn’t any - because I known that at your age, I was worried about it too. Relax, I’ll say it again - you don’ pay anything.

The same way you define Maltese descent, French descent and German descent. My relatives moved over to Malta about ten years ago and, while there, had a baby. By LAW, that baby was not allowed to be called Maltese, even though she was born in Malta. By LAW, she was defined British. What makes it different for us?

Malta has dual citizenship with Britain - we use to “own” Malta until 1960 - as do all Commonwealth countries. Just as I am a citizen of Britain, I’m also a citizen of Pitcairn, Gibraltar, and Barbados (technically).

Evidently, you've not been personally screwed over by an immigrant recently.

Nope. Neither have my friends, my family, or any of my local community.

I sincerely hope you're not waving the racism flag at me.

Of course not. But I was highlighting your comments to do with “fearing the other”. I just wanted to point out the slight exaggeration you had in your statements.

'Twas on BBC news about two nights ago. I didn't exactly record it, but there's your source.

Not good enough for my exacting standards I’m afraid. Give me a weblink, or an image of a newspaper, or a website link to a journal, and then I’ll reconsider. Just now, just saying it was on the BBC doesn’t sway.

Actually, as an addendum to what Pooley and Saix have just said ... it's not like Britain and the rest of the EU doesn't donate copious sums of money very frequently to such countries.

Wrong again, I’m afraid - Britain contributes very little in international aid. The highest contributor per GDP is Sweden. Still…
[QOTE=Cactuar]What might happen is, as Britain's reliance on cheap foreign labour continues, native manual trades might altogether disappear[/quote]
Manual trades aren’t “native” to particular countries, you know. A joiner is a joiner wherever he is in the world. Anyway, Britain is a post industrial society which relies on it’s financial and information industries. Our industry has moved away from those traditional manufactures.

 

[xnotjustadreamx]

As a fellow Glaswegian, you know that what you’ve said is pretty much false. Immigrants have not exacerbated a problem - that problem was already there, caused by 16 years of a Thatcherite government bent on destroying traditional Scottish industries.
Let’s consider this simple fact .Immigrants are often the intelligentsia of their former country - the academics, the teachers, the doctors. This is because, in any country with political or economic upheaval, the educated classes are the first to flee.
So, considering this, immigrants often bring new skills to regenerate communities.

And how, pray tell, would people with little English know what, where to find, and how to communicate with, a careers advisor?

I wasn't saying that immigrants caused the problem, I was highlighting the fact that they hardly make things easier for us! There are millions of British people already, intentionally or unintentionally having to live off benefits because of unemployment and wads of people from another country makes the struggle to find a job even more difficult.
And it's not always the "educated classes" tell me, if they were educated why do they settle for cheap pay on building sites and such? Wouldn't they apply for a job in which they can use there supposed skills? By appealing to the EU, Britain would take a family in, providing they would work, so for example the male of the house would take a job on a site. Anyone can legally work in a country within the EU so it's not necessarily the 'educated' or the wealthy.

And don't lecture me on being a Glaswegian.. I live in Airdrie, next to places like Coatbridge. What I said was not false, I know what I see and what I'm taught in classes like Modern Studies, rather than trying to sound smart with political jargon.

Oh and it's hardly difficult to get a careers advisor, they can get them through libraries, the council, the college, endless possibilities. They're hardly hard done by.

 

[Cactuar]

Manual trades aren’t “native” to particular countries, you know. A joiner is a joiner wherever he is in the world. Anyway, Britain is a post industrial society which relies on it’s financial and information industries. Our industry has moved away from those traditional manufactures.

By 'native' i mean the ones that exist in this country, and i don't need to be patronised either, i kinda noticed that Britain is in a post industrial age, like most of Europe.....

I recently spoke to my Mum about this, she lived in Poland most of her life.
She said that Poland saw a massive imigrant worker invasion during the 90s, mostly Russians...that along with the post communism recovery has made it very hard for Poland to kickstart their new capitalist economy...

Anyway most of the people that complain about imigrant workers in Britain, are the working class, the manual workers....they are the ones competeing with the British tradesmen....

And it's not always the "educated classes" tell me, if they were educated why do they settle for cheap pay on building sites and such? Wouldn't they apply for a job in which they can use there supposed skills? By appealing to the EU, Britain would take a family in, providing they would work, so for example the male of the house would take a job on a site. Anyone can legally work in a country within the EU so it's not necessarily the 'educated' or the wealthy.

Im confused what you said about the inteligentsia, Jazzel.....only when there is an actual shortage in Britain in academic trades like doctors, dentists, nurses you see a swarm of foreign workers coming in.....thats a small percentage overall compared to the constant stream of cheap manual laboutr workers coming to Britain.

And i agree that its a lot to ask for all those foreign workers to learn the language in a couple of days.....the government decided to let them in, therefore they should be prepared to accept them....i know they already made a lot of allowances in expense of the British citizen....frankly i dont know why they still continue to accept more imigrants coming to the country.

 

[Jack's Smirking Revenge]

Not good enough for my exacting standards I’m afraid. Give me a weblink, or an image of a newspaper, or a website link to a journal, and then I’ll reconsider. Just now, just saying it was on the BBC doesn’t sway.

Believe what you want, but I shit you not. Foreign immigrants are receiving Child Benefit, even if the child isn't living in the UK.

 

[Saix]

For heavens sake, most immigrants have just moved here. Do you expect them to learn English to a naturalised level within a few months? What if you were forced to learn French to a refined, advanced level within two months, could you?
The fact that most immigrants take the time to learn the language, often to a better standard than most Brits.

So coming here without any knowledge of English tells you that they're here to do something other than reap the monetary benefits? Just because they don't know our language doesn't mean we should be exempting them of being leeches of our society. They just learned of how slack our system is, so they come to take advantage of it.

And how, pray tell, would people with little English know what, where to find, and how to communicate with, a careers advisor?

Unfortunately, the Government have provided them all with translators; something else with which they absorb our finances.

So it’s wrong to have a different opinion than others on such topics?

I suppose I can see how that was misinterpreted. I meant from a personal point of view, thinking about it too much caused me much irritation. Still does, and it makes me feel disappointingly racist.

 

[Cactuar]

Just because they don't know our language doesn't mean we should be exempting them of being leeches of our society. They just learned of how slack our system is, so they come to take advantage of it.

They are not leeches of our society, they are simply taking an opprtunity that Britain has given them, a ludicrously wide open door, and the Vicky Pollard, benefit culture that has been created in the last 5-10 years, (and the latter was not as a result of the imigrants.) If you don't like it, join the BNP or something, im sure if they get some intelligent people in, that actually understand how politics work, they could sort your 'problem' out.

 

[Saix]

They are not leeches of our society, they are simply taking an opprtunity that Britain has given them, a ludicrously wide open door, and the Vicky Pollard, benefit culture that has been created in the last 5-10 years, (and the latter was not as a result of the imigrants.) If you don't like it, join the BNP or something, im sure if they get some intelligent people in, that actually understand how politics work, they could sort your 'problem' out.

An "opportunity" which has -as far as I've known it to exist- has been taken advantage of copiously. I'm not blaming them for the fact our system does indeed suck, but I will blame them for crossing the globe just to consume what our shitty Government is handing them on a silver platter.

 

[Cactuar]

An "opportunity" which has -as far as I've known it to exist- has been taken advantage of copiously. I'm not blaming them for the fact our system does indeed suck, but I will blame them for crossing the globe just to consume what our shitty Government is handing them on a silver platter.

Fair enough, but im sure that those people that choose to work abroad, away from their families, arent just spineless freeloaders, their native government must be more useless than the British one in the first place, if the working class are forced out of their country to look for work elsewhere in the EU....however if their only motivation was just to make money, and fast, whatever way possible that would be crazy.

 

[xnotjustadreamx]

Basically I think Governments should look after their own country and people should stop being so greedy, I understand if they struggle in life but its almost as if, cause they can't get to America to live "The American Dream" they settle for Britain, a tiny fraction of the size and wealth of the USA!!


-> Credit to KURTKURTKURT!!! *has been edited*
http://youtube.com/watch?v=40U063Oh83c

 

[Davey Gaga]

For heavens sake, most immigrants have just moved here. Do you expect them to learn English to a naturalised level within a few months? What if you were forced to learn French to a refined, advanced level within two months, could you?

Yes and yes. It's different if you're only sitting in a french classroom in high school for maybe 3-5 hours a week but, if you needed said language as a fundamental skill and essential quality for being a 'British' citizen, you'd go out of your way to work hard and get good at that language.

The fact that most immigrants take the time to learn the language, often to a better standard than most Brits.

Granted; British people are quite deaf to foreign languages - but you don't see many British people emmigrating to India, Pakistan, Africa and such like, do you?

As a fellow Glaswegian, you know that what you’ve said is pretty much false. Immigrants have not exacerbated a problem - that problem was already there, caused by 16 years of a Thatcherite government bent on destroying traditional Scottish industries.

Again, granted, Glasgow isn't the best place in Britain, but it certainly wasn't as bad as it was before immigration spun out of control.

And how, pray tell, would people with little English know what, where to find, and how to communicate with, a careers advisor?

The citizens advice bureau isn't exactly a foreign concept. No pun intended.

If you lived in England or Wales, I would say - fair point. To resolve this, we should just scrap loans altogether, so University is free for everyone to the point of delivery.
However, because you live in Scotland, University is already free, so your argument makes no sense.

What the -- of course it costs money. Otherwise, I've just wasted about 3 hours of my life today listening to spokesmen from Glasgow and Edinburgh University ramble on at the financial implications of being at University. By saying I make no sense, you're saying there's been a few inaccurate newsreports, recently, regarding how people descending from an ethnic origin may be receiving free University education. If it's already free, then this report is less than useless.

Malta has dual citizenship with Britain - we use to “own” Malta until 1960 - as do all Commonwealth countries. Just as I am a citizen of Britain, I’m also a citizen of Pitcairn, Gibraltar, and Barbados (technically).

Then it makes even less sense when considering my family are British and later moved to Malta, yet their daughter, conceived and born there, cannot attain Maltese citizenship.

Nope. Neither have my friends, my family, or any of my local community.

Consider yourself bloody lucky.

Of course not. But I was highlighting your comments to do with “fearing the other”. I just wanted to point out the slight exaggeration you had in your statements.

My 'statement' was a fact - it was a news report on ITV and a succession of images of the dead teenagers were all flung up on the screen - each of them either black or had names similar to that of morse code.

Wrong again, I’m afraid - Britain contributes very little in international aid. The highest contributor per GDP is Sweden. Still…

I'd like to know where all of the money is going from organizations like G8 and various charities, appealing for donations over the telly.

Believe what you want, but I shit you not. Foreign immigrants are receiving Child Benefit, even if the child isn't living in the UK.

He speaks the truth. I'll go and ask my dad what the benefit was called and what it was for; he worked beside a shitload of noticeably lazy Polish men, who were all receiving money simply for having children back at home. At the same time, my dad was living away from home, yet he received nothing of the sort. It's as if racism is actually spinning the other way, these days.

 

[Cactuar]

Basically I think Governments should look after their own country and people should stop being so greedy, I understand if they struggle in life but its almost as if, cause they can't get to America to live "The American Dream" they settle for Britain, a tiny fraction of the size and wealth of the USA!!


-> Credit to Derek
http://youtube.com/watch?v=40U063Oh83c

Geez, the way you say it, its like all the people in countries other than USA and GB are just a bunch of greedy bastards, all longing for 'The American Dream'......come on, they cant be so greedy, they are ready to move to a frikkin foreign country just to earn money, and have no life, just work...
And 'they struggle in life'? maybe your idea of countries outside GB is just a massive village full of peasants.


Oh and your statement about the 'governments', and how should they look after their own countries, sorry to burst your bubble, but practically most of the governments in the world, consist of greedy power hungry biatches, with a few exceptions, like Sweden.

Although some people do come to seek work abroad because of greed, but they would only account for less than 1% of all imigrant workers, they would usually consist of lazy bums that heard they can get money and benefits abroad, after realising they would have to work cheap, they would go back from where they came.

 

[Jazzel]

Riku - I'm a University student just now, so listen to me - it doesn't cost money! Tution fees, gradute endowments, University matriculation fees... they are all paid for you by the Goverment.

The spokesman was speaking about living fees[/] i.e food, clothing, rent, TV license. The actual University fees are paid for. Don't fret about it, honestly - I wouldn't have went to University if I had to be tution fes and what not on top of money needed for actual living.

 

[Jack's Smirking Revenge]

Prepare to get a fucking shock in a few years then. Because all that money has to be repaid. The government aren't going give you the equivalent of £10,000 of education and expect nothing in return.
The Scottish system is just different in the fact that the money isn't paid straight away.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Basically I think Governments should look after their own country and people should stop being so greedy, I understand if they struggle in life but its almost as if, cause they can't get to America to live "The American Dream" they settle for Britain, a tiny fraction of the size and wealth of the USA!!


-> Credit to Derek
http://youtube.com/watch?v=40U063Oh83c

That wasn't Derek, that was me

 

[xnotjustadreamx]

Geez, the way you say it, its like all the people in countries other than USA and GB are just a bunch of greedy bastards, all longing for 'The American Dream'......come on, they cant be so greedy, they are ready to move to a frikkin foreign country just to earn money, and have no life, just work...

And 'they struggle in life'? maybe your idea of countries outside GB is just a massive village full of peasants.


Oh and your statement about the 'governments', and how should they look after their own countries, sorry to burst your bubble, but practically most of the governments in the world, consist of greedy power hungry biatches, with a few exceptions, like Sweden.

Although some people do come to seek work abroad because of greed, but they would only account for less than 1% of all imigrant workers, they would usually consist of lazy bums that heard they can get money and benefits abroad, after realising they would have to work cheap, they would go back from where they came.

Don't get to personal when it's just a topic geez. I said, yes I understand there are a lot of countries living in poverty but those countries are left to make to with what they have living off donations and charities. But countries that exist in a temperate climate with work and are part of the EU have no need to just pick up and move into a country which is already becoming more and more overpopulated. The EU takes money from the countries and invests it where needed, the Time Capsule was built in Coatrbridge ( a massive swimming pool with ice rink, play area, restaurant) a place which does have high unemployment and in doing so has provided jobs and revenue for the area. Countries like Poland are not excluded from this! But instead they come into a country that is not their own to leech of our stupid but still generous Government!

Oh and Jazzel I'm going to university this year and having to stay in the Halls of Residence which is £2000 a year which they expect you to pay on your own. Then the £6000 odd tuition fees are paid by the Scottish Executive until you get a job in which you earn over £15000 or more, then they take about 9% automatically out from your wage until it's paid back. Not only that but I'm havng to take out a student loan plus work as much as I can to cover living costs, travelling costs and such.
That's hardly FREE EDUCATION is it dear?

 

[Esp]

If anything, I agree mostly with Jazzle in this debate. Which sucks, because this team has less players.

I'm a Spanish/Danish immigrant, however you want to see it. Spanish father, Danish mother, lived in both countries and now suffering under the british government, which is terrible on many more aspects than just immigration.

I can relate with these immigrants in a way because we came for the same reason as most of them - work. My dad could not get a job in Denmark due to the extreme anti-foreigner society over there, employers would much rather accept a Danish name than an 'Enriqué Luís', so we moved to Spain where my father's business flopped and left him working in England while me my mum and my sister stayed in Spain.

TO CUT IT SHORT, we moved here in search of work. To start with we were on government benefits and spoke little english, true. But my parents were pretty fluent (having bothered to learn the language beforehand) and within a few months I was pretty much top of my class. My parents now both work in areas with shortages of workers - my mum is a carer and my dad is a truck driver. I'm getting A*s for all my english GCSEs and pretty much every other GCSE I'm doing. We're integrating with the society, we speak the language, we live according to the customs, we go to English schools, etc.

THIS IS WHAT A LOT OF POLES (etc.) ARE DOING.

BUT, there are the right wankers. Who come to reap the benefits of the 'lax' system, take benefits, commit crime, not bother with the language, etc. This I despise. Just the same as these 'ethnic communities', which are basically little villages within cities that are almost completely muslim, or polish, or whatever. ie." We're too good for England so we'll be our own little poland in London!" They have their own shops, everything is in their language which they all speak - as if they were actually living in their home country, but LEECHING OFF THE BRITISH BENEFIT SYSTEM, HIGHER WAGES, SAFER STREETS ETC!. THOSE are the immigrants that really piss me off, but there aren't half as many of those as there are 'good' immigrants, which I (personally) deem my family and many, many other families out there to be.

However, I feel rather strongly about the proposition of 'positive' discrimnation, the concept of allowing some foreign citizens to go to university for free. That's completely absurd. It's one rule for everyone. Besides that, 'positive' duscrimination is a double-edged sword, it's as much postive as it is negative. By allowing these ethnic groups to access free university education you are making the others not only pay for THEM, but pay a fee which others didnt get simply because they moved from another country. That's a crazy idea. Plus, as if they need any more incentives to enter the country.

 

[Cactuar]

Don't get to personal when it's just a topic geez. I said, yes I understand there are a lot of countries living in poverty but those countries are left to make to with what they have living off donations and charities. But countries that exist in a temperate climate with work and are part of the EU have no need to just pick up and move into a country which is already becoming more and more overpopulated. The EU takes money from the countries and invests it where needed, the Time Capsule was built in Coatrbridge ( a massive swimming pool with ice rink, play area, restaurant) a place which does have high unemployment and in doing so has provided jobs and revenue for the area. Countries like Poland are not excluded from this! But instead they come into a country that is not their own to leech of our stupid but still generous Government!

Yeah, sorry, i get too opinionated at times, i sometimes wish i could just live in ignorance, it would be easier that way...

And yes, good point, about people in some of those countries, that they dont need to leave just because the doors opened in other countries like Scotland and England.....the fault is shared by both sides, GB relying on cheap labour to desperatly compete and secure their eceonomy amongst the major players in the EU....and countries like Poland, suffering from an imigrant problem aswell, but also coping with a majorly weaker economy, caused by the unproportionality of the EU...those countries with weaker positions, should deperatly try and fix their own economy, not go looking for work abroad, worsening the problem elsewhere....in the end, people wont change......its upto the governments, to find out where their priorities are, be it with the bettering of their nations, or just to feed their greed for power and money....