Nintendo Nintendo Wii, Left in the dust?

[Shu]

This is more of a debate thread for those who have owned or do own one, and think Nintendo is a dated piece of hardware.

Let me make my stance, and then ya'll can debate on it if you wish.

My stance is that Nintendo no matter how hard they try, they are a gimmick, even if their sales say otherwise (japan). It started with Gamecube to be honest, before it at least nintendo pumped out some original stuff for the n64.

1) How many times can we use Mario?
2) How many times can we come up with another old NES/SNES title and revamp it so that it gets average sales?
3) Where's the originality that we were so promised back in the day? Wii Fitness? Is this the cutting edge, or is this even a game?

Look I love Wii Sports, I like Zelda, Mario cart and a few others, but back in the NES days they were amazing at putting out brilliant creative content. Also the graphics have been warped in comparison now with the next gen consoles. Wii's creativity is taking one idea and using it over and over again, and so what right? They make sales off it ... See that's not how I think though. If you were going to make motion sticks, make them so they can read correctly, and not just the flip of your wrists. I haven't seen an original title since...........................................................
............................ (takes breath) ...................................... (takes breath)....... See the picture? Not sure what Wii is trying to do, but I do love the old nintendo's all the way up to gamecube. Gamecube had great content as well, but durring the middle of it bottomed out it seemed.

Now Have fun.. I'll comment later if someone makes a good argument.

 

[Sir Kenneth]

Nintendo were a bit slow getting some quality games out that would appeal to the more demanding part of the clientele, but they do seem to be coming around. Xenoblade, The Last Story, Epic Mickey, Dragon Quest X, and the new Metroid Prime all sound extremely promising though and are all titles which can only improve the Wii's reputation as a home for more serious games.

I don't think the Wii is just a gimmick though. Mario may be an old franchise, but as far as platform games goes, there's nothing on either the Playstation 3 or the Xbox 360 that's nearly as good. The sales of New Super Mario Bros. Wii (which is excellent in my opinion) should be more than enough indication that there's plenty of life left in Mario.

If anyone has dated hardware, it's Sony and Microsoft. Both seem desperate to emulate Nintendo's success with the casual clientele, whereas Nintendo seem confident that a few good third party games will get them back on the right track

 

[Garland_Of_Heaven]

Nintendo has already proven to beat the test of time. They cater to a more "Casual" environment where the hardcore environment is in heated competition by Sony and Mircosoft.

A gimmick, right... I'll believe that when there's isn't anything else that Nintendo can do. Mario is a great mascot and the platforming genre is sublime in Nintendo. Sony and Mircosoft, I'll give respect to them, but Nintendo is my personal favorite. Pokemon, Mario, Link, now Donkey Kong, Samus (In the Metroid series) and various others. You can't ignore that Nintendo is better and more experienced at making games for others rather for one crowd...

 

[Shu]

Mario may be an old franchise, but as far as platform games goes, there's nothing on either the Playstation 3 or the Xbox 360 that's nearly as good.
If anyone has dated hardware, it's Sony and Microsoft. Both seem desperate to emulate Nintendo's success with the casual clientele, whereas Nintendo seem confident that a few good third party games will get them back on the right track

I'll stop you there =). Here are some franchises you might recognize: Prince of Persia (Prince and Ferah), Metal Gear Solid (snake), Halo (master chief), Tomb Raider (Lara Croft), and the list can go on and on.

Mario was great, but this overused plumber was only good for some 3d titles and a bundle of 2d titles. Compare Mario Brothers movie to Tomb Raider, and Tomb Raider takes the cake.

So I can't argue for Mario's sake anymore. He's overused, that's all I'm saying. He will be the next Sonic one day (in the dust).

Edit:

Also folks, we are talking about Wii here, and not Nintendo in general right? I did say I loved the older systems =). Even the title of the thread says it.

 

[Harlequin]

From hardware capability the Wii is only slightly more capable than the Gamecube, but Nintendo knew this generation wouldn't be won on the strength of the hardware but the variety of what's on offer. Sadly, your qualms on a lack of creative flair in the industry are consistent across every platform. First Person Shooters are a dime a dozen (if only it were literally so) on both the PS3 and the 360 because of the huge influx of casual gamers this generation.

The Wii may feel gimmicky to you, but remember that most games rely on gimmicks to sell. The difference between Resistance and Haze? RE5 and Dead Space? Little more than a skin change. The problem with an artform is as soon as large quantities of money are injected into them by more consumers standards begin to dip and smoke and mirrors are implemented, such as sequels rather than new IPs. It's something that sadly goes with the territory.

Films, Music, etc...

Same kettle of fish here. It's not Nintendo's fault they're cashing in on it, not that I don't feel their take on gaming hasn't been innovative this generation.

 

[Sir Kenneth]

I'll stop you there =). Here are some franchises you might recognize: Prince of Persia (Prince and Ferah), Metal Gear Solid (snake), Halo (master chief), Tomb Raider (Lara Croft), and the list can go on and on.

Mario was great, but this overused plumber was only good for some 3d titles and a bundle of 2d titles. Compare Mario Brothers movie to Tomb Raider, and Tomb Raider takes the cake.

So I can't argue for Mario's sake anymore. He's overused, that's all I'm saying. He will be the next Sonic one day (in the dust).

Edit:

Also folks, we are talking about Wii here, and not Nintendo in general right? I did say I loved the older systems =). Even the title of the thread says it.

Huh?

You quote a part of my post in which I was talking about platform games. Then you go on to list some popular franchises of a variety of genres, and then you compare the Mario Brothers movie to the Tomb Raider movie.

Sorry man, but I'm not following you at all here.

 

[Shu]

Meh, I'm not requoting you. I was debating the old overused franchised... "mario" that we see whored all over the wii, to the new franchises on the Next gen consoles.

Mario vs Desmond (Assassins creed - altair, ezio) for instance, gotta go to lunch, but I'll see about this later.

 

[Martel]

I do not think the Wii could ever be seen as being "left in the dust".

Nintendo have completely changed the face of gaming - the Wii doesn't target what you would think of as an "average" gamer. The Wii is a family console; anyone can pick it up and play it, and herein lies the appeal, and what will keep it alive and, indeed, outperforming the other consoles in terms of sales.

In terms of "traditional" gaming the Wii definetely struggles: many developers bring their "better" titles (when I say "better", I mean "those praised by the media". Whether they are good or not is certainly up for debate) to the PS3 and 360, which cater more for the "average" gamer.

But just because the Wii caters for a completely different market should it be dismissed; it still has some absolutely brilliant titles and, I think, the best exclusives out of all of the current-generation TV consoles. Nintendo most definetely have not lost their touch when it comes to games: they produce games, in my opinion, to a consistent and brilliant standard. For an "average" gamer the titles are too easy, yes, but they are still enjoyable and highly replayable.

They think outside of the little box that other developers put themselves in, and for this I think they will always be popular. If anything, Nintendo leave everyone else choking on their dust. Playstation Move, anyone?

As for Mario being overused...well, aren't we seeing the same sort of thing with series like Ratchet and Clank and Halo? Mario has just been around for longer - if it sells, they'll keep making games. You can't really attack Nintendo for having a franchise that is older than the newer ones and sticking with a formula that they know works - if it isn't broken, don't fix it. Can you imagine the uproar there would be if the "core" Mario franchise took a totally different direction? Zelda has been mass-attacked for the cel-shading. Imagine the uproar if Mario suddenly became "realistic".

 

[Channizard]

I own a Wii, and I admit I bought right into it at the beginning with that whole thing about motion being the new port of gaming... I was hooked even more when I learned you could play old Nintendo system games on it, at a small price. Made my dad go all the way out to town on a 45 minute drive to pick up the last one when it was first released... Playing only WarioWare and Rockband, as a family we played it a lot.

Then it kinda got boring... And now it's not so much a family console anymore now that it's in my room. I wanted Wii Fit for Christmas and got it, to try get back into shape slowly after surgery... however don't have the space to use the board in my room. Once I'm renovating I'll have more space and will plan on actually.. using it hopefully.

Nintendo has a lot of High List Game franchises to back them up should one ever fall. Pokemon gets too overzealous after 1000 pokeymans? They have Zelda. If Link looks too realistic and icky? They have Mario. If Mario has saved the Princess too many times he's got nothing else to do, they've got Metroid.

Nintendo very well could be the lasting contender in this all out boxing match, as it does have more to fall back on and a longer lasting relationship with it's customers.

This is all excluding those horrid second hand, 10$ in the discount bin, replica games of mini kart racing, dogs, jungle adventure..

 

[Shu]

I do not think the Wii could ever be seen as being "left in the dust".

Nintendo have completely changed the face of gaming - the Wii doesn't target what you would think of as an "average" gamer. The Wii is a family console; anyone can pick it up and play it, and herein lies the appeal, and what will keep it alive and, indeed, outperforming the other consoles in terms of sales.

In terms of "traditional" gaming the Wii definetely struggles: many developers bring their "better" titles (when I say "better", I mean "those praised by the media". Whether they are good or not is certainly up for debate) to the PS3 and 360, which cater more for the "average" gamer.

But just because the Wii caters for a completely different market should it be dismissed; it still has some absolutely brilliant titles and, I think, the best exclusives out of all of the current-generation TV consoles. Nintendo most definetely have not lost their touch when it comes to games: they produce games, in my opinion, to a consistent and brilliant standard. For an "average" gamer the titles are too easy, yes, but they are still enjoyable and highly replayable.

So we can both say then that Wii is no better than a board game then? Family console seems a bit what I was shooting for with this. I'm not arguing that the Wii isn't the King of Casual gaming, but even the casual games are to say... laughable. Wii sports I can say was the only entertaining thing about the system when I first bought mine. I played it for hours, but then figured out that I could sit down barely move my right hand to spike a serve in Tennis.

Here's why I argue that Wii might become extinct here pretty soon. Wii gave the users motion control, but didn't the old Nintendo/Sega kinda sort of already do this cept with less of a movement range? AKA Duck Hunt, AKA The big ole rocket launcher. The next gen consoles are trying to step it one step up, and it could either blow up in their face, which wouldn't matter because publishers like Activision will just pump out another modern warfare 2 to sell millions, or it could sell Xbox360 and PS3 quite a bit.

1) Xbox360 has Kinect, while I'm not amused by buying it yet, I know the capabilities of it will actually be able to use full body control. Now the question is, will it be able to used on ALOT of games, or just a select few. So if this is true, then Wii might loses it's "gimick" personality altogether. So maybe Wii will start producing more creative games, not to say Metroid and bringing back golden eye are not amazing, but I haven't seen the Wii really dive head on into the first person shooter head on yet. Only third person shooters like Resident evil IV where I've seen good progress.

2) PS3 - From what I heard about the Ps3 they are creating a virtual reality feed to the player. So we know what this means =). Though right now they are making motion controllers that are smoother and less faulty than the Wii. Notice if you've ever played Wii games such as Medal of Honor and others like it, are pretty janky.


With this, I don't see quite the appeal of the Wii as much.

 

[Martel]

Well, isn't that really what all consoles and video games are? They're just a small step up from a board game, the main form of entertainment for the current times that doesn't involve intense physical exercise. Of course, some of the Wii's games can give you a pretty good workout (which is also part of the appeal to some people), but there are plenty of good games on the Wii that don't utilise the motion controls.

The Wii didn't have the strongest lineup - no matter what anyone says, Twilight Princess is a Gamecube game; the Wii version is little more than a half-arsed port - but its filled out considerably now, and it can hold its own in the "average" gamer's market. Its just more diluted, because developers don't know how to make proper use of the software and will, it appears, opt to do a crappy game with tacked-on controls instead of taking their time and doing it properly. The Wii is capable of a lot; it is the fault of those developing games for it that it doesn't live up entirely to its potential. There ARE good Wii titles out there, they just don't get enough advertisement, and you've got to root for them amongst a lot of crap.

I'm not entirely sure what the introduction of Kinect and Playstation Move are going to do to the Wii, but I don't think it will impact on its sales that much. Sony and Microsoft are just cashing in on Nintendo's success and trying to outdo them in the process, and I think by the time that they'd be able to compete as consoles that appeal to everyone and utilise these new features properly, Nintendo will have already rolled out their next console and innovation, leaving everyone else still trying to cash in on their last success. Third-parties have been churning out games for the Wii ever since it was released; it has a huge headstart. I think "casual" gamers are likely to choose the Wii based on that alone for quite a while yet - they've got more to choose from.

Nintendo have the reputation of doing these things first, and they've gained considerable popularity by not targeting a specific audience. Motion controls are a much easier method of interaction than a classic joystick controller is for a "casual" gamer, or indeed someone who doesn't play games at all - its much easier to wave your arm than to remember a long string of button combinations if you're not used to it, right? Its the same with the DS - its so much easier to just touch a screen to control things, instead of being required to memorize what buttons do. The Wii is simply more accessible for most people than the PS3 or 360 is, and that is why it is doing so well, and why it will continue to do well.

I've also noticed that adverts on television and in magazines have shifted back to focus on them - I'm always seeing cheesy Wii and DS adverts on TV these days. Innovation in gaming is Nintendo's market, and Sony and Microsoft are going to have to fight very hard to gain a foothold in it unless they come up with something equally as revolutionary as what Nintendo has been giving us since the release of the DS.

 

[Harlequin]

Even when the 360 and PS3 release their respective reverse engineered alternatives, Nintendo will still be laughing hardest because of the colossal market share they possess. When I walk into my local game shop, about 60% of the floor space is Wii and DS related products, leaving the 360, PS3 and PC to fight it out amongst the remaining space. Nintendo sold their machine for dirt cheap compared to the other two and along with an ecclectic range of games ran the show. Now there's a Wii in 1 in 3 households.

As I described earlier in the thread, gaming is a business as much as it is an art form. Any developer with a shoestring budget can develop cheaper for the Wii/DS and reap a much larger profit in doing so and would likely bite Nintendo's hand off if given the chance to do so. The Wii's in it for the long haul.

 

[Rydia]

I don't think Mario is outdated. The only Mario game that I have not played that was released on a major console is Mario Sunshine (and I could be wrong). I still very much enjoyed both Mario Galaxy games and New Super Mario bros. It's not like every Mario game is the same thing over and over. Sure, it's Mario rescuing Peach from Bowser, but the game play is different. I have never had so much fun playing a Mario game as Mario Galaxy. It game us motion controls, different Marios to become (Bee Mario, Cloud Mario, spring Mario,) and different ways to complete a level (not just running towards the goal, sometimes you have to complete a puzzel, collects a certain number of objects, fight a boss, ect). Besides, a it wouldn't feel right if a Nintendo console did not release a Mario game. As long as Nintendo does something new with each Mario game, I don't think it will ever become old. Mario is also a gaming mascot. Even non gamers will recognize him. It would be kind of sad if they ever do stop making Mario games.

I think there are some over looked titles on the Wii. Once you get passed all the sports and carnival games, the Wii does have great exclusives. Twilight Princess, Fragile Tears, Metroid, Wario Land, Shake it, SSBB, Mario Strikers, No More Heros, ect. And virtual console is great for old game downloads.

Where I work, we use the Wii a long for therapy to work on patient's balance, fine motor control, arm strength, and coordination. It's also very popular among kids, so just with that I don't see Nintendo sales lowering.

And I dunno, but I've never bought a new console for the hardware. I buy it because the previous console is about to retire and I want to play more games. I get a little stressed when next gen consoles are coming out because I have to spend the money for a new system. So the graphics and hardware on the Wii do not bother me. I hear that they are coming out with a high definition Wii though. I probably won't buy it because I'm happy with the one I have.

So I think for what it is and supposed to be, the Wii is a good console. It is not one for those who enjoy mature rated games (although the Wii does have some)

 

[Sir Kenneth]

I think Sony and Microsoft are going to struggle to get third party developers to make games for Move and Kinect. They may be more precise and sensitive than the Wii-mote, but they are still just additional equipment sold separately from the consoles. Nintendo on the other hand, has a distinct advantage by already having sold a Wii-mote with every console. So where Microsoft and Sony have to go out and try and create a market for themselves in this field, Nintendo already has one.

 

[Gingerbread Lesbian]

I think what happens with console gaming for Nintendo depends on what its next console is. Nintendo are in uncharted territory in "modern" gaming with the Wii being in top position out of the three seventh generation consoles. I don't think the Wii itself is threatened that much simply because, I can't see the sales of Playstation Move and Kinetic being amazing so the casual market is pretty much owned by Nintendo. On the other hand, if the Wii or the next Nintendo console tries to take more of the "hardcore" market then Sony and Microsoft will just destroy them and for this reason Nintendo have to keep coming up with something original every time they launch a new console into the market, otherwise they're just going to go backwards.

Personally, I don't even think the Wii sold solely on "appeal" as much as it did on the price tag. The Wii came out roughly a week or so (I think) after the PS3 launch, difference being the PS3 cost around £450 whereas the Wii cost £200. "Hardcore" gamers will have had their mind set already whether they wanted the PS3 or an Xbox 360 and I don't think the Wii would change that. But £200+ is a massive persuading factor to a "casual" gamer or a family, especially bang in the middle of a recession. But when you look at sales now with the price tags no where near as much the sales are far more balanced. Really, as much as the Wii will have had a big appeal factor upon release, I think their sales are just as much do with capitalising on others' mistakes.

I do have to agree though that what seems to come out of the Wii generally lacks originality in terms of games, regardless of sales they still fall back on old franchises; the Pokemons, the Zeldas, the Marios etc rather than pushing for anything new, even the titles people have listed, while I agree they're from great franchises they're still old franchises. It's all same old, same old and there's only so many times you can keep doing this imo, for example, Pokemon Black and White (though I know it's for the DS) looks shitty, uninspiring, unoriginal and dated. Of course, these franchises will probably keep selling millions each time which can be blamed for both Nintendo's success but their lack of originality, and because Nintendo don't have a "real" rival nothing needs to evolve other than the console.

Personally, I think the market is Nintendo's to lose this generation rather than Sony's or Microsoft's to take. Next generation, if they don't come up with something vastly different I can see them falling behind.

 

[Rydia]

Nintendo also kind of has to appeal to the casual as well as the hard core market because they are soley a gaming company whereas Sony and Microsoft sell many other products. Microsoft and Sony could survive if their consoles are not on top. Nintendo would pretty much go out of business if their console did not sell, unless they just made games for other companies and were third party.

I do hope Nintendo stays around as it was a big part of my childhood. I would find it very sad if they ever did go out of business, just like I was when Sega was no longer making consoles.

 

[blakstang98]

The Wii has motion sensor technology that still has the PS3 and 360 beat in those regards. The fact that it has a different form of gaming will still make it appealing to most demographics. Until Microsoft or Sony steps into this type of gaming realm, the Wii will always sell and sell fairly high amounts. Especially in retirement homes and rehibilitation places for physical therapy.

They also have Mario, the most recognizable and most loved character in video games, period. Not to mention Donkey Kong and Link. There aren't any characters with that kind of firepower in the PS3 and 360 world.

Most people will either own a 360 or PS3, but usually not both because their really aren't a lot of exclusive games. This is another area that the Wii dominates. No Mario Kart, Legend of Zelda or Mario Bros games on those systems. But also, due to the fact that it is such a different system, if a person owns either a PS3 or 360, they won't mind getting a Wii as well, but won't get the other of the 2 aforementioned systems. I myself own a PS3 and at some point in time caved into buying a Wii.

So is the Wii dying? Absolutely not! Sales will surpass the PS3 and 360 in time because of the factors I've mentioned.

 

[Sum1sgruj]

As far as I know, the Wii still has to be pre-ordered sometimes for alot of people because they sell really quick. Especially around Christmas. The reason being is because they appeal to ALOT of people, not just young-adults.