sephiroth24300
ON YOUR KNEES! I WANT YOU TO BEG FOR FORGIVENESS.-
what the hell are those things in black robes walking around and muttering weird things about sephiroth? why do most of them dissappear right after you talk to them?
men in black?
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They're Sephiroth clones if I recall correctly. I think they were injected with Jenova cells and Sephiroth is able to control them, which is why they're all trying to get to the crater for the reunion.
Aha. I allow me to explain. I'm very good at this.
The 'men in black' that you refer to are former members of SOLDIER, not clones. "Clones" is actually a bit of a mistranslation. This requires a little history lesson to explain, so please bear with me.
Let's jump to when Sephiroth with Cloud, Zack and some other members of the goon squad arrive in Nibelhiem. Recall the moment when Sephiroth had an earth-shattering epitome and realized he was a half-human engineered creation? And then he proceeded to destroy the town?
Well, when Shinra arrived after that, they found the town in ruins, but there were still survivors. To cover up what had happened, what they had effectively done by putting such a monster on the loose, Shinra rounded up the surviving villagers and the rest of the SOLDIERS that were still alive and used them in similar experiments as was being conducted on the SOLDIERS that Sephiroth and Zack discovered in the Mako reactor.
Cloud and Zack were two such experimentees. They managed to escape though, and Cloud's weaker mental constitution resulted in him suffering severe identity/reality troubles. But that's another story.
The rest of the people that were experimented on are these 'black men' that you see in the game. Their minds were broken by the flood of memories from the Lifestream when they were submerged in Mako -- since all the lifestream really is liquid soul juice and it still carries all the memories of the souls that return to it -- and some Jenova cells were injected into their bodies. What exactly Shinra was expecting to accomplish, but it's a good bet that they were trying to make copies (this is where the world "clones" comes in) of the creature that Sephiroth was.
To explain fully, allow me to set up the situation as Shinra would see it. They made a half-human hybrid -- Sephiroth -- by grafting the cells of a shape-shifting alien (Jenova) into his DNA when he was still in the womb. They've no idea exactly what he can do -- but now they have a pretty good idea! Their goal was to "resurrect" a Cetra, who could supposedly lead them to the Promised Land (said to be full of Mako, and thus a rich profit for Shinra, who only needed a hound to lead them to it). They thought that Jenova was a Cetra -- which it very much isn't. This is important to remember. Jenova is a hostile alien that nearly wiped out the Cetra before it was killed.
Anyways, so now this very dangerous hybrid is running loose, capable of incredible destruction, and is very hostile. And they can't find it. What to do? Quick, make something that can track this deadly creation down! With time short -- they can't possibly make another Sephiroth, by putting J-cells into the fetus, and be able to catch Sephiroth before he does something -- they do the next best thing: Inject J-cells into grown men/women.
So anyone that survived the massacre at Nibelheim was dumped in a tank of Mako, jabbed with needles full of J-cells, and the Shinra scientists hoped that they would be able to track down Sephiroth and maybe even lead them to the Promised Land as well!
This is only speculation as to WHY they experimented on these people, but after a lot of thought, I've determined that this reason, as explained above, is the most likely scenario.
So anyways. In a way, the experiment did work -- the half-assed copies (they're not actual clones of Seph, but there's no other way to accurately describe them since there's so much backstory you never really learn till well into a 3rd playthrough, thus the common confusion around the term) could actually detect Sephiroth. But Sephiroth could also detect them. Sephiroth used these copies against Shinra -- all the copies/experimentees had their minds broken and their bodies savaged by the Mako/Jenova cocktail; and since Sephiroth could easily manipulate the J-cells in them (because of the unique properties of J-cells themselves, I will link you to an explanation of that in a moment) he simply utilized them to do whatever he wanted on the surface. This is why you find the black men all over in critical areas to the plot. And that is why Sephrioth discards them when they're no longer of use near the end of the game.
Remember, ever since Cloud tossed Sephiroth into the mako reactor, Sephiroth was physically dead -- but his mind/soul continued on. Understanding how Sephiroth was able to control the copies/experimentees (including Cloud) requires and understanding of how Jenova cells work, and how Sephiroth can manipulate them. You can read the explanation of this more in-depth in my post here.
So, there you have it. The 'men in black' are actually the survivors and experimentees of Nibelheim, created in order to track Sephiroth down so Shinra could take him out, but instead the plan backfired horrendously.
I hope this answers your question to the fullest =3
The 'men in black' that you refer to are former members of SOLDIER, not clones. "Clones" is actually a bit of a mistranslation. This requires a little history lesson to explain, so please bear with me.
Let's jump to when Sephiroth with Cloud, Zack and some other members of the goon squad arrive in Nibelhiem. Recall the moment when Sephiroth had an earth-shattering epitome and realized he was a half-human engineered creation? And then he proceeded to destroy the town?
Well, when Shinra arrived after that, they found the town in ruins, but there were still survivors. To cover up what had happened, what they had effectively done by putting such a monster on the loose, Shinra rounded up the surviving villagers and the rest of the SOLDIERS that were still alive and used them in similar experiments as was being conducted on the SOLDIERS that Sephiroth and Zack discovered in the Mako reactor.
Cloud and Zack were two such experimentees. They managed to escape though, and Cloud's weaker mental constitution resulted in him suffering severe identity/reality troubles. But that's another story.
The rest of the people that were experimented on are these 'black men' that you see in the game. Their minds were broken by the flood of memories from the Lifestream when they were submerged in Mako -- since all the lifestream really is liquid soul juice and it still carries all the memories of the souls that return to it -- and some Jenova cells were injected into their bodies. What exactly Shinra was expecting to accomplish, but it's a good bet that they were trying to make copies (this is where the world "clones" comes in) of the creature that Sephiroth was.
To explain fully, allow me to set up the situation as Shinra would see it. They made a half-human hybrid -- Sephiroth -- by grafting the cells of a shape-shifting alien (Jenova) into his DNA when he was still in the womb. They've no idea exactly what he can do -- but now they have a pretty good idea! Their goal was to "resurrect" a Cetra, who could supposedly lead them to the Promised Land (said to be full of Mako, and thus a rich profit for Shinra, who only needed a hound to lead them to it). They thought that Jenova was a Cetra -- which it very much isn't. This is important to remember. Jenova is a hostile alien that nearly wiped out the Cetra before it was killed.
Anyways, so now this very dangerous hybrid is running loose, capable of incredible destruction, and is very hostile. And they can't find it. What to do? Quick, make something that can track this deadly creation down! With time short -- they can't possibly make another Sephiroth, by putting J-cells into the fetus, and be able to catch Sephiroth before he does something -- they do the next best thing: Inject J-cells into grown men/women.
So anyone that survived the massacre at Nibelheim was dumped in a tank of Mako, jabbed with needles full of J-cells, and the Shinra scientists hoped that they would be able to track down Sephiroth and maybe even lead them to the Promised Land as well!
This is only speculation as to WHY they experimented on these people, but after a lot of thought, I've determined that this reason, as explained above, is the most likely scenario.
So anyways. In a way, the experiment did work -- the half-assed copies (they're not actual clones of Seph, but there's no other way to accurately describe them since there's so much backstory you never really learn till well into a 3rd playthrough, thus the common confusion around the term) could actually detect Sephiroth. But Sephiroth could also detect them. Sephiroth used these copies against Shinra -- all the copies/experimentees had their minds broken and their bodies savaged by the Mako/Jenova cocktail; and since Sephiroth could easily manipulate the J-cells in them (because of the unique properties of J-cells themselves, I will link you to an explanation of that in a moment) he simply utilized them to do whatever he wanted on the surface. This is why you find the black men all over in critical areas to the plot. And that is why Sephrioth discards them when they're no longer of use near the end of the game.
Remember, ever since Cloud tossed Sephiroth into the mako reactor, Sephiroth was physically dead -- but his mind/soul continued on. Understanding how Sephiroth was able to control the copies/experimentees (including Cloud) requires and understanding of how Jenova cells work, and how Sephiroth can manipulate them. You can read the explanation of this more in-depth in my post here.
So, there you have it. The 'men in black' are actually the survivors and experimentees of Nibelheim, created in order to track Sephiroth down so Shinra could take him out, but instead the plan backfired horrendously.
I hope this answers your question to the fullest =3
poker king46
materia master
Hmm... That is an interesting conclusion and your explanation also clears up a small amount of confusion frm a person that's a walking talking guide to going through the game lol
It does make sense that theyd think seph would lead them to the promised land considering he was under the illusion that he and jenova were ancients and he'd tell anyone who'd listen that very thing. However what I don't get is how they knew the "copies" would lead them to him until of course they started mumbling about the reunion of course.
It does make sense that theyd think seph would lead them to the promised land considering he was under the illusion that he and jenova were ancients and he'd tell anyone who'd listen that very thing. However what I don't get is how they knew the "copies" would lead them to him until of course they started mumbling about the reunion of course.
Glad it cleared it up for ya! I'll be happy to answer any other questions.
And you know, I don't think Shinra knew it would work themselves. It was pretty much a wild gamble but they took it because they had nothing else to go on. And I think the Reunion thing did factor in, but it was only a theory at the time. Then again, Hojo did head this project, so who can say for sure that he wasn't doing this to comply with company orders and carry out his own twisted experiment to prove the Reunion theory?
Another possible explanation -- besides trying to find Sephiroth, who they believed to be missing but not quite sure if he was truly dead (they never found the body) -- could be that they made the "copies" to lead them to the Promised Land, and didn't simply recreate another Sephiroth because it was too dangerous, seeing as how the first one turned out to be such a disaster. I believe this is one of the few times Shinra actually makes a good decision.
But either way, we can only guess. The motivation behind making the "copies" was never really explained.
sephiroth24300
ON YOUR KNEES! I WANT YOU TO BEG FOR FORGIVENESS.-
thankx for all the info!
thank you very much for the info. I had some speculation that they were nibelhiem survivors, but I thought it was all sephiroths' doing, I didn't think shinra was involved. but thanks again for the info!
thank you very much for the info. I had some speculation that they were nibelhiem survivors, but I thought it was all sephiroths' doing, I didn't think shinra was involved. but thanks again for the info!
Yup, they're Nibelheim survivors. In the 2nd or 3rd disc, when you get back to Nibelheim, go into Tifa's room and look at her desk. There are papers there, reports actually, that will explain what they did with the survivors and how Shinra covered it up. Glad to be of help! 
That's crazy! an entire town wapred and a mega-conglomerate covering it up.
Lol i thought it was as what Claire suggested about the Failed Clones.
Lol i thought it was as what Claire suggested about the Failed Clones.
Aye, the failed clones thing is a common misconception, simply because FF7 suffers from horrible story-telling. It's pretty hard to piece this stuff all together until you play it about... oh.... seven times...? xD Yeah, I have no life. 