Love Beyond Friendship: A Cloti Club

[Cloti]

Yeah, Aerith is everywhere acording to them, every flower represents Aerith xD
inserting Aerith in the Tao scene was desperate, just because they believed her and Cloud were the perfect Ying-Yang.
but I am glad they won't be using the "I want to meet you" argument anymore(completely removed from their website after the post at DesFailed)
the other day a Clerith was saying Aerith obsession with the sky(and her dress in CC)
was a symbolism of her love for Cloud..... completely baseless considering that the sky is a Zerith symbol and Aerith later changes her dress for Zack.

 

[EVA]

Haha, did they really remove that from their site after the Desfailed post? Are they trying to seem even more fake?

We all know the truth by now.

And there are screenshots.

I pity them in a way....

Not.

 

[Cloti]

yeah they removed it, in their FAQ page, which is full of crap by the way.
2. Cloud and Tifa spend a romantic night under the Highwind together near the end of Disk Two.
~ There are at least three different versions of this scene and it changes according to Tifa's affection level with Cloud as governed by the Date Mechanism. In at least one version, Cloud completely shuns and rejects Tifa's affection in that scene. Therefore, Cloud's affection towards Tifa is completely optional to the player

A complete lie! three versions of the highwind scene... there are only two and the high affection version seems to be CANON.

 

[Stella]

4. AC: Marlene's drawings of Cloud and Tifa. Again, suggestive. Marlene is described as being an observant child afterall, we can trust her judgment.

There were drawings?! I don't remember seeing any How could I have missed that?!

@ Fusionist- The book you spoke of that might be told from Cloud's POV, were you speaking of Cloud VOL. 2? That's the only book I've heard of relating to him. I thought at first you may be speaking of the 3 new Novellas coming out with ACC, but those are told from the POV of Yuffie, Red XIII, and I think Cid...

A complete lie! three versions of the highwind scene... there are only two and the high affection version seems to be CANON.

Wow, I can't believe they thought there were three lol How sad

You have to do a lot to get the low affection scene as well, a fact that they seem to just blatantly ignore :/

 

[Infinity D]

They still believe in the three versions .

I like how Clerith's like to lighten the scene on their computers to try and prove that a random blob in the corner of the room looks like a drawing of Aerith. -lulz- It looks like a blob.

Whaa, what does that prove. Cleriths, so random. I think I'm starting to like them--amusing, rabid, pink-loving--- No really. It would be sooo boring without them.

There were drawings?! I don't remember seeing any How could I have missed that?!

Well, it's not one drawing of them. Maybe you've seen it.

http://screens.midgar-rock.org/ac/index.php?dir=movie&tot=1744&img=531&page=9

And oh look! What else does the picture show? Cloud, why are you still staring at Tifa? That's not Aerith you know!

 

[Cloti]

OMG more delusion:
6. Cloud and Tifa DO have sex. Why else would Tifa be embarrassed the next morning?
~ Tifa could just as easily be embarrassed the next morning because she cried and got upset when Cloud turned her down the night before. Tifa cries during that scene anyway, which may also be a reason for her embarrassment. Tifa crying during that scene also implies that it is not actually romantic between them.
Jesus! Tifa cried what game did they play.



7. Cloud “rediscovers his love for Tifa” during the Lifestream Event.
~ False. Cloud actually recalls his past feelings for Tifa during the Lifestream Event without her help. Tifa had specifically asked him to recall something that she didn’t know about when he revealed his past feelings for her. Therefore, Cloud had never forgotten about his past feelings for her and nothing was ever “rediscovered”. However, what Cloud recalls at that time is a past crush that Tifa never reciprocated, along with other painful memories surrounding his childhood relationship with her. It is also revealed during the Lifestream Event that Cloud and Tifa didn’t know one another well as children, which means that Cloud’s crush on her as a child was never based on an actual relationship with her. Furthermore, evidence of Cloud’s feelings seven years ago doesn’t necessarily mean that he continues to feel that way in the current frame of events
Without her help! they need to read the ultimania translations, they mentionTifa helping Cloud in that part.

10. The only romantic scene in the game is between Cloud and Tifa.
~ That’s purely a matter of opinion. Many people don’t consider the night that Cloud and Tifa spend under the Highwind to be romantic at all. On the other hand, many people consider the hand reach scene between Cloud and Aerith as being very romantic and view it as a reaffirmation of their love for one another
Do you find the hand reach romantic? for me it isn't and the Clerith always bring that up.

and finally this page http://www.geocities.com/ff7lovetriangle/Preface.htm
I found it today and my eyes couldn't believe what I saw! comparing Tifa and Aerith moments with Cloud...amazing how much time did they spent in that site? they actually count every single line, every single thing Cloud says to Aerith is romantic to them.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Cloti, for your continued mental health, I wouldn't bother with the DesFul diehards unless they come out of their hole and try again.

Yes, it's insane. We all know that. We also all know they've a few cogs short of a mechanism.

But the arguments on their site are old hat. The stuff the cobble together in their forums, or better yet in actual arguments, now that's pure comedy gold.

 

[Amizon]

Wait ... Cloud and Tifa slept together?! If there was proof of that, then the whole Cloti and Clerith debate would be over, with us emerging victorious!

 

[Cloti]

yeah Ryushikaze you're right, I won't read that crap anymore.
What is funny is the Clerith list of evidence that include Tactics,some Coca-Cola commercial,the words of Cloud's mother,the Final FMV and some other things, all pure speculations, and they ignore the more heavy evidence.
Cloud and Tifa slept together under the Highwind, I don't know if sex was involved but they "confirmed their feelings" and that can't be interpreted as "feelings of friendship" or "feelings about the upcoming battle" what sense would that make?
Also they consider the Loveless play Clerith proof, I haven't read why but they do.
The good thing about reading CloAer arguments is that you realize how light they are compared to the Cloti ones and also you can practice some literally knowledge identifying the multiple Fallacies they use(even Major Fallacies)

 

[Ryushikaze]

Wait ... Cloud and Tifa slept together?! If there was proof of that, then the whole Cloti and Clerith debate would be over, with us emerging victorious!

That already happened. It happened well before the 10th Aniv or CC came out. We are in the 'but the crying' phase.

But yes, lulz galore in the Cloud Strife 10th Ani entry. A few selected quotes.

On the request of his childhood friend Tifa, Cloud assists the anti-ShinRa organization “AVALANCHE” led by Barret.

When discussing how Tifa, Aerith, and others like Cloud, it is Tifa's date that is shown.

「 I don’t need a fantasy anymore. I’m going to live in my reality. 」

Not directly relevant, but it's a nice needle at the 'fantasy love' archetype the pinks push.

The happier he is now,
The more Cloud is tormented by painful “memories” of the past.

The more he realizes how happy he is living with Tifa and the children, the more the fear of losing that and regrets toward the past trouble Cloud…

What? Cloud is HAPPY with Tifa? Holy crap, that kiboshes what the pinks keep screeching. No mention of Barret as part of the family at all, BTW.

With the support of former allies and Tifa, an important woman to him and now also part of his family, Cloud regains the courage to move forward.

Speaks for itself.

A Promise to Tifa, Etched in his Memory.
When Cloud left the village dreaming of being a SOLDIER, he swore to Tifa that he would come running to her rescue if she was in trouble. While it was Tifa who strong-armed him into making the promise, it seems that the idea that he must keep this vow was forever in Cloud’s mind. In BC he is obsessive about protecting people, and if he runs out of strength part way though he will mention the “promise.”

-picture omitted-

[BC] If he runs out of strength part way through the story, he will say regretfully that he “couldn’t come through on my promise to her.”

「 Sorry. I got here a little late. 」

-picture omitted-

He lifts a collapsed Tifa up in his arms, and upon seeing her aware of him, he smiles gently.

LO is still considered worth mentioning. Omitted picture is him smiling at the barely conscious Tifa.

Now from Tifa's profile.

Tifa, who collapsed at the slum’s church where the memory of Aerith still lingered. Cloud, who had came to save her, always seems to be a tempo late . . . . . .

Cloud came to the church to save Tifa.

Lastly, from the CC keywords.

Cloud and Tifa Cloud and Tifa are childhood friends, both born in Nibelheim. When Cloud leaves the village, he calls Tifa out to the water tower and promises that he will become a SOLDIER. At the same time, he is also made by Tifa to promise that he will come to rescue her if she is ever in trouble.
Following this, the pair experience many hardships, such as the Nibelheim incident which also appears in CC, and the Jenova War in FFVII, and through these the distance between them shortens. And in AC they live together, with Barret’s daughter Marlene and a boy named Denzel. Though there was also a period later where Cloud lived away from them after having contracted Geostigma, they finally reach a commune with each over and return to living together once again. In DC, they rush together to Vincent’s aid, in his battle against Deep Ground SOLDIER.

The picture for this keyword is Cloud and Tifa face to face in the flowerfield.

Yeah, that's enough for now.

Translations from here.

 

[Serene]

Oh, can I play?

Apart from being Cloud’s childhood friend, she is also the woman who understands him all too well and devotedly supports the mentally-weak side of him.

C/A fans will tell you Tifa only wants Cloud if he's the "hero" she fantasized about as a child, and she doesn't accept the real Cloud for who he is. They'll also tell you she doesn't understand him as well as Aeris does. Don't believe it. SE clearly doesn't.

She was reunited with Cloud during one of AVALANCHE’s activities, and invited him to join the organization in order to watch over him after finding many strange aspects in his speech and behavior.

If she truly didn't know him at all and had only spoken to him once at the well, how would she know that his disc one behavior was "strange"?

She ventured into Lifestream together with Cloud. Amidst the course of him trying to ascertain his memories, they became aware of the thoughts/feelings which each other was holding.

Not "used to hold." Also, the picture used with this carries the caption, "You came for me. The promise . . . you kept it afterall." The "feelings" they become aware of are not feelings of sadness or despair, as some might try to tell you.

She and Cloud came to realize their feelings for each other in the end of the story, and live together in AC and DC.

Says it all, really.

 

[Dragon Mage]

Well, it's been a damn long time since I've posted, but here goes. Remember that story competition I was talking about WAY back? Well! I finally got the time to post my part!

Well, it isn't so much a competition but that I had this really funny idea and wrote down and now everyone wants to see it and so I'll post it. It'll be up in the Writer's section tonight, so if you really want to check it out, you can.

~Dragon

 

[Infinity D]

She ventured into Lifestream together with Cloud. Amidst the course of him trying to ascertain his memories, they became aware of the thoughts/feelings which each other was holding.

She and Cloud came to realize their feelings for each other in the end of the story, and live together in AC and DC.

When I was playing the game, I was sure the Lifestream was an important event where Cloud and Tifa discovered their feelings for each other. Personally, I found the Lifestream event the most romantic part out of the entire game. It was the equivalent of a girl going into a boy's room and discovering that she's been the subject of his admiration all along. But that's funny, I didn't think the creators needed to confirm it. And when they did, some are still denying the truth. Sad. And embarassing.

As for the Highwind scene, I thought the line "Deep in my heart, I heard you calling my name" said it all. When Tifa fell into the Lifestream, we witness her calling Cloud's name and in both versions of the HW, Tifa confirms that she heard Cloud's voice calling her. I thought it was safe to assume they were both calling each other's name during the same time. So about there being two (oh wait three! ) versions, BS. Besides, I always compared it with Squall's and Rinoa's date, where the dialogues differed depending on the musical instruments chosen, but doesn't change the fact that they had a date. Just like in either versions of the HW, Cloud and Tifa spent the night alone together. But apparently, it can't be that simple.

 

[looneymoon]

and finally this page http://www.geocities.com/ff7lovetriangle/Preface.htm
I found it today and my eyes couldn't believe what I saw! comparing Tifa and Aerith moments with Cloud...amazing how much time did they spent in that site? they actually count every single line, every single thing Cloud says to Aerith is romantic to them.

Ahhh!!! THAT'S THE ONE I WAS TALKING ABOUT IN MY FIRST POST! GAAAH

They also have one where they like... compare the amount of time Cloud talks ABOUT Aerith after her death vs the amount of times he does with Tifa.

Apart from being Cloud’s childhood friend, she is also the woman who understands him all too well and devotedly supports the mentally-weak side of him.

I adore this quote. It pretty much ties up what Tifa is to Cloud in one tidy sentence.

She and Cloud came to realize their feelings for each other in the end of the story, and live together in AC and DC.

I thought it was "mutual" feelings? Either way, point still stands.

CloAe logic: Cloud rejected Tifa's feelings during the Highwind scene. In AC and DC Cloud lives with Tifa, the girl he rejected, and continues to search for Aeris in the "promised land." Why does he do this? Because Cloud is a self-centred asshole who doesn't give a rat's ass about Tifa or his family.

CloAe logic #2: Cloud and Tifa affirm their friendly/familial feelings at the end of the story, and live together in AC and DC.

Not only is interpretation #2 redundant (why would they need to confirm friendly feelings when they've been travelling together for months? Wouldn't a friendly relationship be mutually understood already?) but totally ignores the lines they use in that scene. Would you really tell a friend that your "heart was calling out to [him/her]"? Would you tell the girl that you've had an obsessively long crush on that "nothing has changed"?

Not to mention, the conclusion of that scene was intended to be "risque." Hell, it was even MORE obvious before, but SE decided to tone it down. That does not take away the risque factor out of it, it just makes it less obvious.

 

[Infinity D]

Would you tell the girl that you've had an obsessively long crush on that "nothing has changed"?

lulz "The nothing's changed" line. I was arguing with a clerith in the ltd thread before it was closed. She argues that the "nothing" Cloud was referring to was merely his personality and not his feelings. Funny though. Clerith self-contradiction again because she was also arguing that Cloud did not take on Zack's persona. If Cloud was indeed refering to his personality and not his feelings, why would he need to tell Tifa that his personality is still the same? Oh, is it because he was zackzified? There's nothing to gain from arguing with a Clerith, they contradict themselves. The phenomenon itself is worth witnessing I guess. Muahaha

Edit: Not to mention. It doesn't make sense for Tifa to say "Words aren't the only thing that tell people what you think" if Cloud was merely refering to his personality. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I read at Loveless that the Japanese version refers to feelings and not thoughts. Either way, doesn't make much of a difference.

Not to mention, the conclusion of that scene was intended to be "risque." Hell, it was even MORE obvious before, but SE decided to tone it down. That does not take away the risque factor out of it, it just makes it less obvious.

lulz again. When I was arguing with the same clerith, she brought up a point saying the creators considered it a "problem" because they didn't want us to think the scene was risque. Really, such desperation. Muaha The creators intended for the scene to be risque, but not too risque that it becomes inappropriate for their game or too risque to the point where the news interviewer considered it "mature for ff7". Both versions convey the same message, but the final version that they kept was the most appropriate without being too explicit. <---That being said, it's understandable. They take pride in their judgment.

 

[Amizon]

Serene, thank you so much for kindly pointing out the Lifestream scene. I think it's a vital part to the whole Cloud/Tifa relationship as well and can clearly outwit Cloud/Aerith. Keep the theories, suggestions, explanations and so on coming! I feel a debate war coming.

 

[EVA]

Wow! Alot has been posted since I came back from the working world. =)

~ Tifa could just as easily be embarrassed the next morning because she cried and got upset when Cloud turned her down the night before.

... This seems like a good time for a facepalm. Really, if Cloud had turned Tifa down, why would she still be cuddled up to him? Why would he gently wake her up in the morning? Why would he try telling her that they won't have time to feel lonely because he'll cause enough rukus to count for everyone? Why would he refer to everything as we and not just himself? Are they going to try and tell me some bullshit about 'we' meaning Aerith is some twisted universe? And I didn't see Tifa crying.

Tifa cries during that scene anyway, which may also be a reason for her embarrassment. Tifa crying during that scene also implies that it is not actually romantic between them.
Jesus! Tifa cried what game did they play.

Um... can someone clear this up for me? I don't remember anything mentioned in the Ultimania's that stated Tifa cried, nor did I see her doing so in the game. I saw her looking exasperated from embarassment, but did she actually cry? Sorry if this was answered in the sea of posts back there, I just kinda skimmed through. =P

I played FFVII! =D I think the Clerith's just played KH and pretended to know all about FF.

Without her help.

Zack: That girl is the only one who can help him.
Aerith: I'm a bit jealous.

PWNED.

the hand reach scene between Cloud and Aerith as being very romantic and view it as a reaffirmation of their love for one another

I usually don't run my mouth, but this subject just makes me want to scream "FUCK!" out loud, on top of a rooftop. It's so idiotic that a hand reach scene proves the canon pair! Especially when Aerith's hand became TIFA's hand, and that Cloud and Tifa had a hand reach scene in AC.

Not to mention, their hand reach theory proves these following pairs canon:

RikuXSora
NamineXKairi
ZackxAngeal
ZackxCloud
RoxasXNamine
RikuxNamine
EikoxGarnet
AuronxTidus

Wow. I never knew about the REAL canon pairs!

Edit: Ooo! BalthierXVaan! Thank you Clerithsz.

 

[Serene]

Um... can someone clear this up for me? I don't remember anything mentioned in the Ultimania's that stated Tifa cried

She is sniffling a bit while she's talking to Cloud about hearts calling out to each other and such ... but it's not a sad crying, it's more an emotional crying. It's an overwhelmingly emotional moment for Tifa, this finally admitting her feelings to Cloud after keeping it locked up for so long.

 

[looneymoon]

... This seems like a good time for a facepalm. Really, if Cloud had turned Tifa down, why would she still be cuddled up to him? Why would he gently wake her up in the morning? Why would he try telling her that they won't have time to feel lonely because he'll cause enough rukus to count for everyone? Why would he refer to everything as we and not just himself? Are they going to try and tell me some bullshit about 'we' meaning Aerith is some twisted universe? And I didn't see Tifa crying.

Bolded part: a little suggestive maybe?

another addition to that point: why would Red and Cid be such asshats to TEASE her about being rejected? I know Cid has a bit of a history of being a douche, but still, he's not a complete jerk. Not to mention RedXIII...

CloAe makes everything so OOC.

I have to say one thing though: I was up late last night reading a couple of fanfic... and shucks, there seems to be a lacking of quality CloTi on FF.Net. I did find one brilliant Cloud/Aeris one, that actually kinda made me a little teary

 

[Infinity D]

Why would he try telling her that they won't have time to feel lonely because he'll cause enough rukus to count for everyone?

Don't forget the squats! That was mega sweet and comforting of polygon Cloud!

I have to say one thing though: I was up late last night reading a couple of fanfic... and shucks, there seems to be a lacking of quality CloTi on FF.Net. I did find one brilliant Cloud/Aeris one, that actually kinda made me a little teary

I've been reading one called "Hard to Get", but the author hasn't updated for almost 8 months. I think the author herself is playing hard to get. BTW. It's a pretty good one; everyone's in character imo.

I feel a debate war coming.

How? Where?
*Runs Away*