How come Zack and Cloud are less manly in Crisis Core and Advent Children

PaparaGoWest

PaparaGoWest

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Zack in terms of looks. Cloud in terms of personality (And clothes)

If one looks back at FF7 game. He atained Zack's personality in the beginning of the game. So he was mentally unstable due to Mako poison. So its kinda like a massive radiation poluting your head. So that actually makes sense. But in the end. Its all...

PS1 Cloud
Cloud: "Let's Mosey"
Cid: Again, stop saying it like a whimp!
Cloud (Shrubs his head) Move out!

So awesome and cool. Summon stuff. Bahamut... YEEeeeah!

Advent Children and Crisis Core
Cloud: I can't. I will just be in the way.
Look at how enthusiastic i act. ... why bother.

Ugh..cringes.

Its like if they gave Cloud's PS1 personality to Lightning in FF13 game.
While Cloud in Advent Children and Crisis Core got a Tokio Hotel personality.

08f.jpg


And then its Zack. Basically a guy in short term PS1 Final Fantasy. He wasn't that important, and he seemed cool.
2401200-zack-ffvii-sword.png
Wild soldier!

foto_i04.jpg
Keep on rockin!


And here is Advent Children and Crisis Core

Spaz
Zack_Fair.jpg
Fashion model sounds better than Soldier. Good job. Now i'll make every FF male characters girly as shit! My inner feelings YEEEEEAH!
 
Cloud was a straight shooter in FF7 because he needed to take that role. In crisis core it explains the person he became. As for advent children, he still was the straight shooter but had a lot more to think about. He now had time to think about Aerith's death and due to the geostigma believed to punishing those, he was left to believe he was being punished for allowing Aerith to die. Now I can say it couldve been executed better, but I cant say that the idea was bad.Overall Lightning was a character who felt shallow. She was apointed team leader but all she did was cross her arms say something short and leave. Unlike Cloud, she would have outbursts and get angry in ridiculous ways, always thought she was righteous but in reality was stubborn. She didnt even try to lead at time, the team made the decisions.
 
Wot. Acting like a girl is not shallow? Uuh responsibility uuu. I have to react to my inner girlish feelings instead. That's Crisis Core and Advent Children in a nutshell. Just a way of making males turn into girls! Its LGBT secret agenda.

FF7 had some rocking awesomeness! Just do it i say! Screw this deep shit attitude, i just loved playing every second of FF7. Its just a great game in general :D
 
Papara, I need to change the title. Calling a person "gay" due to they are acting emotional or less manly is offensive to the gay community. We do not tolerate this here.
 
If we're talking about manly, how about the scene where Cloud crossdresses and actually manages to get away with it.
 
Cloud contracted testicular cancer around the time Square merged with Enix. Not only did the company lose a lot of key staff during the transition but Cloud also lost his balls, and Cid doesn't smoke anymore!
 
Razberry Knight said:
If we're talking about manly, how about the scene where Cloud crossdresses and actually manages to get away with it.
Click to expand...

Well thats just funny. Mr.Bean does the same thing too. But he really disliked the idea. I mean if i had seen these zombies. I'd probably get annoyed too. I'd had it :O

But nonetheless. A great leader!
Cloud contracted testicular cancer around the time Square merged with Enix. Not only did the company lose a lot of key staff during the transition but Cloud also lost his balls, and Cid doesn't smoke anymore!
Click to expand...
Best answer ever!
 
Feel like this is a troll thread considering the lack of proper responce. But more emotional doesnt mean less manly...in fact, I dare say Cloud was a bit of a robot, he barely reacted to much...advent children didnt make him cry and crisis core was a time before he became who he was. Regardless if who is disatisfied with the canon of crisis core, clouds birth was a good touch. Another thing ill say that Zack legitimately felt homosexual at times not for being emotional but the interactions betweenthe characters. Even at 1st class, Zack acted snhy around pretty man sephiroth. His relationship with Angeal just wasnt told well enough for me to believe they were superior and underling.
 
No. He was a cool dude before.
Now he is like a girl. He's a non reacting machine of gayness i think in the newer version.
To react on stuff.. yeah that's a laugh. You have to zip up on my inner gayer feelings first"

I can say this is the greatest thing ever. Dissing all the other stuff while getting to the point :D
Man if your idea of an RPG game involves Goofy as a major character. I laughed so much on that.
But although KH2 was fun in terms of gameplay, but i couldn't care less what happend in terms of plot, just randomness stuff in a Disney world and etc. But the gameplay was really cool. I hate how people like this game for the wrong reason.
Fuck the story. Thats my advice :P
 
1. Cloud did not obtain Zack's personality, he merely 'copied' Zack's occupational legacy; this is why we do not see Cloud calling himself Zack or acting cheerful like Zack does. This is one of the biggest misconceptions for this game and I have no idea why.

2. Dealing with depression does not make Cloud 'unmanly'. Especially since he saw his girlfriend die a very painful and bloody death, right in front of him, at the hands of Sephiroth. He then lives on blaming himself for her death because he believes he failed the woman he loved and swore to protect, if you do not understand how that could haunt someone into depression than you most likely have little to no compassion for those who have experienced life and death.

3. Nomura said he wanted Cloud's AC clothes to resemble 'biker' style (not the leather jackets kind) but the kind of clothes people on motorcycles wear (thick pant materials, black, etc), his clothes are also suppose to resemble the clothes of Samurai, not only highly respected and feared individuals, but the Samurai were seen as very manly and rugged by citizens of Japan, so to Japanese culture, Cloud is the epitome of 'manly'. They are also some of the manliest designed clothes in all of FF (even excluding Squall since he wears a bolero leather jacket with white fur). They might have a hint of Japanese culture to them but nonetheless manly.

4. Cloud probably looks more 'feminine' (physical traits) in AC because that's just what Japanese people do, they even made Snow look 'perfect' and 'flawless' therefor he appears more feminine. If you were following AC back when it was first being announced (like I was) you would have seen the promo videos and early footage of Cloud where he looks much more Westernized (appearing more manly).

5. However, Cloud is said to look rugged and rough by NPCs in the original game, he even uses Japanese words that are said by 'tough' men in Japanese culture.

If you were to pay attention to the compilation Cloud is still very manly. In Case of Tifa (a novella written for Tifa's story after VII) Cloud helps build Seventh Heaven with Barret (he even corrects other peoples mistakes), in that same book he drinks hard liquor, fixes his motorcycle and builds his own bike himself.

Also, he is a child in Crisis Core, but I agree--his character is very different, hence why I do not consider it canon.


But basically what I'm saying is, until you can do any of the following plus some of Cloud's attack moves in some degree; I suggest not pointing out how 'unmanly' other men are (fictional or not). :pooley:
 
I don't think Cloud is less manly (not that he has ever been masculine imo lol), but younger. As for Zack, I think the references in VII are too little to infer if he's masculine or not. About their appearance, japanese beauty standards are like that. From cloud to Noctis, every male FF protagonist except for FFIX looks like a JPOP star.
 
They probably gave him the cold personality at the beginning of 7 to distinguish it from his true character that would come through later.
They probably abandoned that cold hardman style for Zack in Crisis Core because focus groups told them people prefer a more effeminate main character!
 
There was a thread on the forum somewhere about why Cloud wasn't as cool in Crisis Core, too, and it pains me to explain because it's so obvious. I guess people should replay the game...or just pay more attention.

Cloud was the black sheep of Nibelheim. I forget why, but it seems he was a shy and awkward kid who wanted to play with the other kids, but didn't know how to and even when he came around, they didn't respond to him very well. They probably thought he was weird, and they could care less when he left to be a soldier, as could be told from if you choose to read the letter in Tifa's room during the flashback. So I don't know about you, but...growing up without having any friends in a small town where everyone else is friends and thinks you're weird and doesn't care for you doesn't necessarily make you..."strong". It makes you distant, shy, quiet, and awkward, in which Cloud was and became because of it. Then let's not forget that he promised Tifa, the most popular girl in town who he had a crush on, that he would come out of it a 1st Class soldier, yet only got to be a guard. That's pretty shameful for anyone, and before that promise, Cloud already felt weak as a person, one reason being he couldn't save Tifa from the bridge and got blamed for it by her father. The other, probably because emotionally he had no friends to make him feel good about himself. No friends = I'm not likeable/loveable.

In terms with your definition of masculinity, Cloud wasn't and isn't manly because he's not emotionally stable. Physically, though, he always was and still is. Zack should actually be manly according to you because he was the stereotypical stand-up guy: confident, bold, mentally and emotionally stable, physically strong, 1st class title, got a lot of girls...not only that but he had the upright posture, smiling all the time. Cloud looks down a lot and has more...closed postures and ones that just show that he's more emotional and less confident at times. Also, Cloud's the reserved and quiet personality; that usually doesn't scream out "STRONG" to the majority of people. Plus, Zack's got the dark-haired image that gives him strength; Cloud's blonde shows his "lighter" personality to Zack's.

In AC, Cloud is depressed over Aerith's death, countering your idea of masculinity again. But he will always counter it since he's a more-or-less emotional type of guy. I really don't see how you even see Zack as weak; I always thought it was obvious he was Cloud's opposite, which is strong. Hence why Cloud is this stronger person in FF7 because he took on Zack's confident and bold personality/self. Without that, you get Cloud's real self which is him somewhat losing confidence at times, doubting...basically, AC and CC Cloud.

But Cloud *is* manly. The fact that he's emotional makes him strong too because he actually knows what he feels and then fixes it to make him stop the negative things that bind him. That's an amazing ability, especially for being a guy. It would be nice and more socially manly to just be like Zack and be able to move on easily from one thing to the next, but everyone's different. Even so, Cloud's physical strength and personal appearance should express his manliness enough on its own, and the way he's emotional isn't really...not-manly.
 
Cloud was always a little nerd. Cloud felt like he was weak and that he couldn't protect Tifa. Cloud was a misfit and felt like he needed to become like Sephiroth so he'll feel loved and included and impress Tifa.

In Advent Children, as already mentioned, the little dude has depression.
 
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