SELF CENTERED AMERICAN COMPLAINTS...A RANT

[Roland_Deschain]

ok we hear this all of the time, americans bashing their government for this reason or that reason. I will admit that even in the past I have done it. I am making a thread to those who complain about the american government because they think that they are suffering or think that they are being treated unfairly personally....or just complaining for the basic purpose of complaining even though they do not even really have that much to complain about.

Now I am living in china. And if there is anything I have learned about America its that the people are more self centered and spoiled than in any other country I have ever seen..and I am started to get bothered by it. I am not saying everyone is, I am also adding that I am at times and a lot more in the past.

Now before I go on just let me clear something up. I love America, its my home, my country and I am very proud to be an american, as I think all americans should be.

I will also say that there are many things I disagree with. I dont like the aspect that our country thrives off war and also I dont like the idea that just because there is terrorism, or because there are under developed countries fighting each other, or have corrupt governments, that america trys to take on the step father role of trying to correct these things or involving themselve in conflicts when they have almost nothing to do with america directly.

Its like god forbid during the civil war...there was a more developed, capable and powerful country...that intervened. They decided that america is killing itself and its mayhem, and they have resources....so let us just intervene and transform this country into what we feel it should be according to us....everything takes time and the more we intervene, the more it slows our own countries progress and the more it changes THEIR history of what the mystery of time will let them become.

Now these are the kind of complaints I have about america...in general I complain about things that are affecting the world around us and continue building us a bad reputation and are hurting the world around us.

I am sooooo sick and tired about hearing hardluck americans complain about the job market, expenses, gas prices, tabacco prices and tax. These are the result of the wrong decisions (my opinion they are wrong) that america has made and we are paying for it...sure. MY problem is that I always hear people complaining for themselves. I never hear people complaining about the lives of other nations lost or the affects we have upon others.

Americans....you should count your blessings and be thankful for the country you live in and every damn thing that you have every day because trust me....it gets fucking worse out there.

Smokes are so expensive.....people in so many countries can not even afford their dinners...let alone have the habit of smoking.

Gas is so expensive......Some countries are just selling this resource at dirt cheap to countries like america because it is their ONLY resource and they have nothing else to offer....just feeding our lifestlye of driving everywhere we need to go, while these people sometimes can not even afford shoes to walk in.

Food prices....just be thankful you can eat

The job market.....Oh come on, so many people bitching that they can not find a job are people who are not looking for a job, are not motivated, or just plain feel sorry for themselves.....do you know how many countries dont even have a middle class? so many countries only have the rich and the poor. their is no middle ground. I am living in Beijing and HERE.. 4 years of college is equivilant to a high school diploma in america and even when they get their first job they are stuck renting a small ass apartment with only enough to afford the very basic of needs. And the largest population comes from the country where they have no education and they move to the city to compete agaisnt all those who do...because being a farmer is not paying shit and they dont even have the technology to farm effeciently anyhow.

You people need to stop bitching. When I worked at a gas station when I was 18...6 years ago. I sold smokes to this man and he said "4 dollars a pack?!" "this country is going to shit." I remember thinking.....that there are so many countries that already ARE shit. Yet to the average american we see only our problems and we complain about only our problems.

Osama is dead...I was happy...we got what the goverment wanted. Let me give you an example though. When the country China was starting to bloom into power...America launched a missle at the Chinese Embassy, and stated that it was an accidental test of an offshore missle(bullshit). Do you guys know what China did?...Absolutely nothing. The countrys prime minister was even shamed with tears when he told the coutry that there would be no action...and they couldnt because it was not worth it and they had too many problems of their own to deal with. Yet if one man assaults our country, we will openly go to war that country....because we can.

Once again I love my country everyone, I am thankful for being raised in a big house and having a good family, good education. This are all things that we should be greatful for. Yet remember that having this lifestlye does not come free, and that america has always developed and grown stronger or weaker through war. And many times these thing we have to be greatful for comes at the cost of others suffering. So do not bite the hand that feeds people.

I am one of those people who would like to dream about a world united and not just a country, so next time you complain about something so trivial.....Stop, and remember. That you are living in a country where hard work can make you rich if you persisit. where you can drive, where crime is being regulated to keep you safe, where people can have homes, where you are protected by your powerful government in (compared to the majority of the world) very pleasant lives. And think about complaining for real reasons. Its about time americans started considering that they are not the only people on this planet and that maybe...just maybe...they are very lucky...not better...but lucky

I am not speaking to everyone, I know there are so many Americans who are not spoiled and whom are not arrogant or ignorant, as I am one of them. Yet in general, we have so many that are.

What do you guys think? Any one else tired of this?

 

[Ayumi Hamasaki]

I'm not tired of it all.

In fact, I'd say we don't hear it enough. What I'm tired of is people that say we should follow the government and agree with what they do because they are the government. That makes actually no sense. I have respect for our country, but I also have respects for the very rights this country gives me. One of those is my right to express my views as I please.

People have a right to complain about the way the government handles certain things. To suggest otherwise is rather shallow. I'm allowed to complain because our government was so determined to fight over Planned Parenthood that we almost shut down. Do your realize how stupid of a reason that is?

Freedom of Speech means freedom to complain. I get sick of hearing people say a thousand things, but that doesn't mean that they should be silenced. I'm sick of people talking about how gay people are "Manufacturer's defect" as one of the people who work with my father so graciously put it. But I can't go up to him, and say "I'm sick of you saying that, you're not allowed to anymore".

In the end I think you'll find that very few people are complaining to complain. We have reasons. If you don't agree with the reasons with the reasons that's fine, that doesn't make them any less of reasons. Complaining to complain to me means complaining without reason. In America, we have lots of reasons to complain.

As for the other countries bit, do any of them do that with us? Is there really any country that puts others' needs above their own? I really doubt it. You can't expect people to complain about things they don't see or experience first hand.

Just because we're lucky with what we've got so far doesn't mean we shouldn't have more or try to fix the problems present.

/end rant

 

[DarkShadow]

I feel the same way you do I love the american people and the culture........

But I'm not american (wish I was), but politically and socio-economically america is fucked up......Even though you made a point about other countries starving and in a worser state yes thats true but so are some americans. I mean look at the ghettos in Harlem, the bronx there just a few miles off the big apple in New York where there are millions of people shopping buying clothes,food and shit which were exported from third world countries at a bargain, its all capitalism. America is internally bleeding and meddle with in other countires affair.

First of all Bin Laden was created by America.......When the the soviet forces were at war with Afghanistan, Bin Laden went to Afghanistan and fought along with the taliban this radicalized him. America in order to help them against a communist country decided fund and train them, giving millions of dollars to the Taliban who defeated the soviet troops and turned their guns on America 20 years later. They also funded Osama and his purpose (9/11). What are America doing Now? Bombing Libya killing civillians in the proccess. And even though they say they were considering arming the rebels (and couldnt due to it being unauthorised against the UN resolution ) I still beleive they are arming the rebels who have links with Al Qaeda (Does that remind you of something? Yes they repeating the same mistake again like in Afghanistan in the 80's).

The whole arab unrest was instigated by the US or western countries for more sympathetic leaders in oil-rich countries abundant in resources. The same countries now against Libya were happy to take oil from Libya having no problems with Gaddafi as long as they had their share of oil. Now they are bombing Libya based on misinformative and exaggerated western media reports. They ven killed his son and 2 of his grandchildren in a luxury compound........and what was the UN resolution?; to protect civillians!?!?! how can a luxury compound be harming civilians?

Poverty can be ended but thats not by donating money through donating money to UNICEF or shit........its the demise of these coorparations and capitalistic business organizations who are in business not because of these so-called business-bright talents who have a bright idea,but because of the millions of people in third-world countries who they over-work and under-pay.

 

[Roland_Deschain]

But I'm not american (wish I was), but politically and socio-economically america is fucked up......Even though you made a point about other countries starving and in a worser state yes thats true but so are some americans. I mean look at the ghettos in Harlem, the bronx there just a few miles off the big apple in New York where there are millions of people shopping buying clothes,food and shit which were exported from third world countries at a bargain, its all capitalism. America is internally bleeding and meddle with in other countires affair.

This is a valid point, there are a lot of americans in poverty. And I know many of them have been born into bad situations. The thing is though..one great thing that makes America a very good country is the ability for you to make something out of nothing, the problem is that the personal choice has such a huge ratio about how people deal with the shitty sitations they are given. For most other countrys the common people do not consider selling drugs or being a "gangster" a job. But compared to places like india, Africa, China and many other asian and middle east countries....getting a job in America is like walking down the road....one foot at a time and you will get there. This kind of reinforces the idea that I had about so many people feeling sorry for themselves or being spoiled. Like I said we have a pretty suffiecent middle class and jobs for almost anyone who has a High school diploma. So sometimes I have trouble understanding why crime is so high and there are so many homeless when the chances a lot more fair than other places.


Also I agree with the part you said about Osama being trained by the U.S.
This is one of the few insentives I had about finding him, because I guess I feel that we should be responsible for ending a monstor we created. Yet thats another topic all together.

I'm not tired of it all.

In fact, I'd say we don't hear it enough. What I'm tired of is people that say we should follow the government and agree with what they do because they are the government. That makes actually no sense. I have respect for our country, but I also have respects for the very rights this country gives me. One of those is my right to express my views as I please.

People have a right to complain about the way the government handles certain things. To suggest otherwise is rather shallow. I'm allowed to complain because our government was so determined to fight over Planned Parenthood that we almost shut down. Do your realize how stupid of a reason that is?

Freedom of Speech means freedom to complain. I get sick of hearing people say a thousand things, but that doesn't mean that they should be silenced. I'm sick of people talking about how gay people are "Manufacturer's defect" as one of the people who work with my father so graciously put it. But I can't go up to him, and say "I'm sick of you saying that, you're not allowed to anymore".

In the end I think you'll find that very few people are complaining to complain. We have reasons. If you don't agree with the reasons with the reasons that's fine, that doesn't make them any less of reasons. Complaining to complain to me means complaining without reason. In America, we have lots of reasons to complain.

As for the other countries bit, do any of them do that with us? Is there really any country that puts others' needs above their own? I really doubt it. You can't expect people to complain about things they don't see or experience first hand.

Just because we're lucky with what we've got so far doesn't mean we shouldn't have more or try to fix the problems present.

/end rant

Well first I would like to point out that this thread is not saying that you shouldnt complain. I think you are blindly trying to debate with me.

I agree with you actually, I think people should stand up for what is right and voice there opinion non stop, that is the great thing about America. You do not need to be afraid to speak your mind.

The point I am making however....is that we are complaining for the wrong reasons. I know people in america who have easy access to public transportation everyday and still choose to drive, and than complain about how the gas prices are high, and than complain about the war in Iraq. Our freedoms come at a price my friend.

It does not matter how much you complain if you complain for the wrong reasons, as long as the people need oil, than America will continue trying to obtain it. Hence the bite the hand that feeds thing.

All I was saying is that it doesnt matter how much we voice our opinion at our small poisons that we take for granted, it will still not change the actions of the government, because their actions will often gives us the needs to continue our way of life. IF you want to change the governments actions, you need to complain about their actions...not the aftermath, and also not benifit from their wrong decisions.

For the countries choice and voice to be united, than the country must first must act united.

 

[Ayumi Hamasaki]

Well first I would like to point out that this thread is not saying that you shouldnt complain. I think you are blindly trying to debate with me.

I agree with you actually, I think people should stand up for what is right and voice there opinion non stop, that is the great thing about America. You do not need to be afraid to speak your mind.

The point I am making however....is that we are complaining for the wrong reasons. I know people in america who have easy access to public transportation everyday and still choose to drive, and than complain about how the gas prices are high, and than complain about the war in Iraq. Our freedoms come at a price my friend.

It does not matter how much you complain if you complain for the wrong reasons, as long as the people need oil, than America will continue trying to obtain it. Hence the bite the hand that feeds thing.

All I was saying is that it doesnt matter how much we voice our opinion at our small poisons that we take for granted, it will still not change the actions of the government, because their actions will often gives us the needs to continue our way of life. IF you want to change the governments actions, you need to complain about their actions...not the aftermath, and also not benifit from their wrong decisions.

For the countries choice and voice to be united, than the country must first must act united.

One you made you a thread with rant in the title. I responded with my own rant. It's not out of desire to debate with you. Most people don't respond to response to a rant.

Two you can have easy access to something, and still not be able to use it. It may not come at the right time, you might have valid reasons for not using, or you might even still a need car for other traveling. Just because you see something as a valid reason doesn't make it one for everyone. Complaining about gas prices raising for no reason, like they seem to often do, is not complaining about nothing.

Complaining about the government and the effects of their decisions is the first step toward doing something about them. If we discourage it, then we are in a way discouraging action.

 

[DarkShadow]

This is a valid point, there are a lot of americans in poverty. And I know many of them have been born into bad situations. The thing is though..one great thing that makes America a very good country is the ability for you to make something out of nothing, the problem is that the personal choice has such a huge ratio about how people deal with the shitty sitations they are given. For most other countrys the common people do not consider selling drugs or being a "gangster" a job. But compared to places like india, Africa, China and many other asian and middle east countries....getting a job in America is like walking down the road....one foot at a time and you will get there. This kind of reinforces the idea that I had about so many people feeling sorry for themselves or being spoiled. Like I said we have a pretty suffiecent middle class and jobs for almost anyone who has a High school diploma. So sometimes I have trouble understanding why crime is so high and there are so many homeless when the chances a lot more fair than other places.


Also I agree with the part you said about Osama being trained by the U.S.
This is one of the few insentives I had about finding him, because I guess I feel that we should be responsible for ending a monstor we created. Yet thats another topic all together.

The people living in poverty in America, usually the desperate ones, resort to violent robberies and drug-dealing to feed themselves. I disagree and agree (if that makes sense) with you saying americans whine about not being able to get a job. Sure for the typical american being unemployed isn't so bad, like you said its like walking down a road one foot at a time you'll get there. But the people born into the ghetto's where their education is systematically messed up (probably even more now due to the education cuts to reduce the deficit). They find it as hard as the same people in the slums of India or Africa. Most are forced out to work with no qualifications at a young to feed their family whether its slinging rock on the corner or working as a trash collector. The ghettos are no different to the slums, some parts of america are no different to third world country.

 

[Roland_Deschain]

One you made you a thread with rant in the title. I responded with my own rant. It's not out of desire to debate with you. Most people don't respond to response to a rant.

Two you can have easy access to something, and still not be able to use it. It may not come at the right time, you might have valid reasons for not using, or you might even still a need car for other traveling. Just because you see something as a valid reason doesn't make it one for everyone. Complaining about gas prices raising for no reason, like they seem to often do, is not complaining about nothing.

Complaining about the government and the effects of their decisions is the first step toward doing something about them. If we discourage it, then we
are in a way discouraging action.

Ah yes but you see the problem is that so many people complain about things that only affect themselves, and these things we complain about often come after the decision has been made. and yes it is a step in the right direction, but could we avoid these situations more if we took a step back and looked at the big picture and not only how it will affect "us". How is complaining about gas prices going to tempt our government to stop going to the middle east though? In a way I agree with you but perhaps maybe we are just taking those "baby" steps as it slowely hurts us.

As far as getting a job you can not compare wether you have a car or not, in America you can hitchhike to a city that has public transportation, get a job at Mcdonalds and sleep on the beach until you have enough for rent and start living. in china 80% of the population lives in small ass towns....and when I say towns I dont mean America towns where the houses are big and they have a school and car...I am talking about a town with no jobs faaar away from citys and not accesible by roads, and it is falling apart. And if they go to a city it is overpacked with overqualified people and housing that costs a very much higher realestate. In general in America the saying "where there is a will, there is a way" is more true than almost all other countries.

 

[Ayumi Hamasaki]

As far as getting a job you can not compare wether you have a car or not, in America you can hitchhike to a city that has public transportation, get a job at Mcdonalds and sleep on the beach until you have enough for rent and start living. in china 80% of the population lives in small ass towns....and when I say towns I dont mean America towns where the houses are big and they have a school and car...I am talking about a town with no jobs faaar away from citys and not accesible by roads, and it is falling apart. And if they go to a city it is overpacked with overqualified people and housing that costs a very much higher realestate. In general in America the saying "where there is a will, there is a way" is more true than almost all other countries.

Um, that's just not true. You can't get a job without an address and a phone number. You can't sleep on a beach that's loitering. Also some of us live in the country. My father used to have to drive 30 miles to work. We didn't live in the city. We couldn't just walk.

And hitchhiking is ridiculously dangerous.

 

[Roland_Deschain]

The people living in poverty in America, usually the desperate ones, resort to violent robberies and drug-dealing to feed themselves. I disagree and agree (if that makes sense) with you saying americans whine about not being able to get a job. Sure for the typical american being unemployed isn't so bad, like you said its like walking down a road one foot at a time you'll get there. But the people born into the ghetto's where their education is systematically messed up (probably even more now due to the education cuts to reduce the deficit). They find it as hard as the same people in the slums of India or Africa. Most are forced out to work with no qualifications at a young to feed their family whether its slinging rock on the corner or working as a trash collector. The ghettos are no different to the slums, some parts of america are no different to third world country.

I agree with you and disagree with you...I think it makes sense =).

I mean honestly in parts it is not any different than the slums, but also is it really always based on the choices that these people make, how can they raise their children to sell rock to provide for the family, how can they raise their children to skip school or not go out and do something about their life. Yes I will say the it is definately a lot harder for these people. The thing is these people have a choice a lot of the time. You need a Visa and a lot of money to leave a third world country, but not to leave an area. If people acted more respectably than perhaps one day those areas might not be ghettos, but just black areas. If the familys took more of a role in their childrens life and education and supplemented what was missing with good advice...maybe there would not be so many people who assume that it is their only choice to sell drugs.

Um, that's just not true. You can't get a job without an address and a phone number. You can't sleep on a beach that's loitering. Also some of us live in the country. My father used to have to drive 30 miles to work. We didn't live in the city. We couldn't just walk.

And hitchhiking is ridiculously dangerous.

You cant tell me something I have done cant be done. After my first trip from china I went to San Diego with little money, slept in a hostel for 2 days and the beach for 2 days. I got a job at starbucks and than later turned that into a marketing job and found a cheap apartment to rent. I went there to meet my girlfriend (chinese) as she was living in a host family. I am from Iowa and I drove to work 45 minutes to the city with a used car that I earned by doing odd jobs, and I went to college based off many students loans that I am paying back.

Is hitchhinking any dangerous than slinging rock in a ghetto though?

 

[Sepalcure]

I definitely have to say I agree with Ayumi, the generalization that we all complain about situations or individual circumstances and that perhaps we shouldn't it rather ludicrous. With all due respect, you don't know the difficulties that one faces in this country. Just because you come here as an immigrant for example with little to know working credentials doesn't guarantee you a free roof over your head and some hot food on your plate. You have to work here in order to make something of yourself. Jobs don't come to you on a silver platter. Nowadays employees want a credible resume, they want someone with experience, optimism, and most of all someone that can afford some form of transportation. They don't care if you have to walk through the slums to get there, so long as you're not consistently tardy.

Even if you do say, get on welfare, doesn't automatically qualify you for having an easy life. Just because you get welfare checks from the government doesn't mean that some people don't struggle to find a stable job, or struggle to go back to school. I know people who, sacrificed their lives after having children early (sort of their fault, for not being protective of their sexual health) just to work their whole life to get a bachelor's degree. In other words, they hold a consistent 9-5 hourly job and still find the time to study and go to school. So even though there is a "where there's a will, there's a way" mentality here, not every citizen's life is easier here than you assume. You have poverty stricken people without homes, who don't have jobs or a zip code or even a credible birth certificate sometimes; forced to live on what little money a sympathetic occasional passerby will chuck at them.

Living in New York, I've seen people of all different socio-economical classes and living in Jamaica I've gotten a taste of what it's like to live in a third world country. You have a populace there that are divided by what they have earned through grueling hard work, people who even though they are poverty stricken still force themselves to try and get an education to get out of that conditioned lifestyle. It's not about whining or anything, it's about the resources that are handed to you: what you have and what you choose to do with the tools provided to you. It's like my grandfather said to me, "You cannot teach a man to fish, if you do not give him the tools and let him learn on his own." Just because you hand people government grants, welfare checks, unemployment checks, and full scholarships doesn't mean they'll all have the state of mind or the resources to take it. Not every American has the luck or the capacity of a "great life" as you seem to think.

That's not to undermine people in other third world countries such as Darfur or Ethiopia but that is to say that suffering is a universal experience. You have people in every far reaching part of the world that has at some point in their life experienced a degree of suffering. And just because we have more resources than a lot of other countries doesn't dismiss us from being able to "complain" or whine about the circumstances some of us did not ask or choose to willingly be in. Everyone has a choice in their life, you're right about that, Ambassador but not everyone has the resources as well as the mentality to think, "These are the necessary steps I can take to better my life." And then you have people that can do that or do have the necessary resources and choices in order to take that step.

For some people it's harder than others. You have people here who live on welfare, not willingly but because of a loss of employment or because their company went out of business. You have people who spend all of their life savings on drugs and willingly ruin their life. And it's until they hit rock bottom and check in to rehab and look at how they've wasted their life that they realize how unforgiving the world can be. But you make it that way, some people ignore what they're provided, some people don't and take full responsibility for their actions and strive to succeed in life and inevitably do. It's all subjective, everyone around the world either suffers and dies or struggles through life.

 

[Roland_Deschain]

I definitely have to say I agree with Ayumi, the generalization that we all complain about situations or individual circumstances and that perhaps we shouldn't it rather ludicrous. With all due respect, you don't know the difficulties that one faces in this country. Just because you come here as an immigrant for example with little to know working credentials doesn't guarantee you a free roof over your head and some hot food on your plate. You have to work here in order to make something of yourself. Jobs don't come to you on a silver platter. Nowadays employees want a credible resume, they want someone with experience, optimism, and most of all someone that can afford some form of transportation. They don't care if you have to walk through the slums to get there, so long as you're not consistently tardy.


Well I am not an Immagrant and I did not say well paying jobs come to you on a silver platter. Yet I have had a job since I was 13 years old and in america it is not hard to find a job that is enough to rent an apartment.

I was not saying we should not complain. I was saying that we should not complain about things, and public education is something to definately complain about, as well as public transportation. I am merely saying that people are many times being selfish and that no body cares about the lives of those we cause to suffer. The general population of america could really give two shits about those peoples homes we invade or innocents who die to a war we are involved in, they care about things that affect them personally. And when people stop caring only for themselves, thats when real decisions will be changed. When people stop complaining about oil costs and start complaining about humanity, than we will stop going to war with countries whom have oil. when people stop selling rock and robbing stores and everyone starts lookin for a job and has the respect and assistance of their fellow men without them being intimidated....than no one will have to tiptoe through the slums to go anywhere.

I was not saying that he was not right in that we shouldnt complain about small things, I am just saying perhaps we should think about acting, or consider why we are complaining about them in the first place.

And having lived in 2 different third world countries and been from one side of america to the other, I can honestly tell you that there is no comparison in fairness. It is very fair...a justification that we have it unfair is in my opinion being spoiled

And you also have many people on welfare that are just taking the free check and being a bum when they dont have to be. and there are many countries who dont even have welfare to begin with

 

[Ayumi Hamasaki]

You cant tell me something I have done cant be done. After my first trip from china I went to San Diego with little money, slept in a hostel for 2 days and the beach for 2 days. I got a job at starbucks and than later turned that into a marketing job and found a cheap apartment to rent. I went there to meet my girlfriend (chinese) as she was living in a host family. I am from Iowa and I drove to work 45 minutes to the city with a used car that I earned by doing odd jobs, and I went to college based off many students loans that I am paying back.

Is hitchhinking any dangerous than slinging rock in a ghetto though?

I went to a city with someone, stayed there for a week, couldn't find a place to live or stay in a beach or the hospital. It was impossible to find work. So maybe you should just realize that it's different for people who live in difference places?

And you realize that you just said you HAD to have a car? So I'm sur ewhen you were doing odd jobs you complained about gas prices once or twice? And probably would have even more so now then then?

The point is not everywhere in America is the same.

 

[Roland_Deschain]

I went to a city with someone, stayed there for a week, couldn't find a place to live or stay in a beach or the hospital. It was impossible to find work. So maybe you should just realize that it's different for people who live in difference places?

And you realize that you just said you HAD to have a car? So I'm sur ewhen you were doing odd jobs you complained about gas prices once or twice? And probably would have even more so now then then?

The point is not everywhere in America is the same.

Well I took the bus in San diego no car. And yes everyone complains about gas prices. We are a country built on the wheel. Yet after living for a while, growing up and seeing more of the world....I have to say I am a little embarrased for having complained so often. I used to think it was kind of hard in america...until I woke up. Yet the world will always be subject to war as long as people dont consider others in the process of living. Like I said this is a rant, even if I am also ranting at myself. Sometimes I am sick of my self at times...I think we all are. you can take this thread any direction you want to and I am taking it to a place deep down. Its time for the world to make a change, and for the right reasons. once human lives get outweighed by oil and oil costs....I think I will never complain about the worth of oil no matter how much it costs ever again.

 

[der Astronom]

ok we hear this all of the time, americans bashing their government for this reason or that reason. I will admit that even in the past I have done it. I am making a thread to those who complain about the american government because they think that they are suffering or think that they are being treated unfairly personally....or just complaining for the basic purpose of complaining even though they do not even really have that much to complain about.

I'm not actually really all that concerned about whether or not people personally have much to complain about; as someone who cares about the truth, I only care about whether or not their complaint is valid. So I don't actually care if their complaint might be done out of selfishness or not. If they're complaining about the high unemployment rates because they don't have a job, it doesn't actually matter that they're doing it for selfish reasons. The fact is, the economy sucked at some point, and anyone competing for a job had a harder time getting a job than they normally would. I would say the bad economy is something worth looking into.

Now I am living in china and stayed 2 months in India in my life, as well visited mexico and I am very intrested in Africa...will probably visit soon. And if there is anything I have learned about America its that the people are more self centered and spoiled than in any other country I have ever seen..and I am started to get bothered by it.

I'm not too concerned about China; their economy isn't in the dumps. They'll probably be fine by 2050 anyways.

And I think selfishness is a useless indicator. We're all at least a little selfish, and anyone who doesn't realize this is (in my opinion at least) naive. Even poor people are selfish. They can't help it. And we're all selfish towards advancing our own species. Some people in third world countries feed off of species that are about to go extinct or are very uncommon, or they torture and maim animals for the entertainment of other tourists. They are selfish against biologists who are trying to study these creatures, and they are selfish against the creatures themselves. If we felt sorry for them because they don't have any other choice, we'd be neglecting the fact that they are just as selfish as we are. We are simply selfish in different ways.

Now I'm not saying selfishness is a good thing by any stretch of the imagination; I just don't see it as a reason to be bothered because we all have it.

I'm not actually bothered by Americans being selfish; I'm sure there are high-achieving Americans who get what they want, because they do something about it, and are still considered self-centered simply because of the nature of their goals, and if they had room to complain, it's about the stuff they can't do anything about. I don't have a problem with them. I'd be more bothered by the ones who complain about something and don't do anything about it, if it was in their power to do something about it. There are some people who would rather leech off of welfare than find a job. They can actually do something about it. But if you've already tried to find a job, and you're just plain unlucky, there's nothing wrong with complaining; it's not as if you can do anything else.
And I don't even care about whether or not what they're complaining about is selfish or not. Someone complaining about poor people in Africa and not offering at least a donation is just as useless as someone complaining about local problems in America, and not doing anything about it when they can.

I am sooooo sick and tired about hearing hardluck americans complain about the job market, expenses, gas prices, tabacco prices and tax. These are the result of the wrong decisions (my opinion they are wrong) that america has made and we are paying for it...sure. MY problem is that I always hear people complaining for themselves. I never hear people complaining about the lives of other nations lost or the affects we have upon others.

Truthfully, there's lots of things people can complain about. We could be complaining about the lack of good education (which applies to any education system, not just in America.) Or about fraudulent organizations like Scientology (which applies to any country, since Scientologists are all over the globe). Or we can complain about environmental problems, which can also apply to just about any country. Or about killing animals for food, science, etc. (not that I agree with this in particular, but some people have a problem with this, apparently). My point is that there's just so much stuff to complain about that we don't have enough time to devote ourselves to complaining about everything; we'd be here all day long, and I don't see why complaining about poor people in Africa or any other under-developed country has to take precedence over any other issue, particularly because you can't even begin to talk about other people's countries if you don't even have the issues in your own country sorted out. Maybe people are complaining about expenses because they have trouble paying for them. And if you're going to call them selfish just because they'd rather deal with those problems than poor people from another country...well, again, selfishness is useless. If they don't even have enough money to pay their bills, they probably don't have enough money for poor people they've never seen before.

Americans....you should count your blessings and be thankful for the country you live in and every damn thing that you have every day because trust me....it gets fucking worse out there.

Just because there are less fortunate people out there isn't a valid reason to stop complaining. The two issues are completely irrelevant. So what if some poor sap has it worse off than you? Does that mean I should stop complaining about working conditions at my current job just because he has to work in job conditions just as bad or worse than mine? Should I stop complaining about how men get paid more than women at a certain job just because women in some other foreign country don't get paid as much as their male counterparts? Just because someone else has it worse off than me doesn't mean I can't try to make things better for my own situation. It might even help the people immediately around me.

Smokes are so expensive.....people in so many countries can not even afford their dinners...let alone have the habit of smoking.

Gas is so expensive......Some countries are just selling this resource at dirt cheap to countries like america because it is their ONLY resource and they have nothing else to offer....just feeding our lifestlye of driving everywhere we need to go, while these people sometimes can not even afford shoes to walk in.

Food prices....just be thankful you can eat

And I don't think that's even the issue. It doesn't even matter if people know about the misfortunes of people who don't have access to gas, tobacco or food; they just need to do their research. There's a perfectly good reason why gas prices are high, and there's really not much they can do about it. And if they're complaining anyways, again, it's because they know they can't do anything about it. Everyone else is just doing it out of ignorance.

I tend to think people complaining about food prices are probably the same people who have trouble paying their bills. Because food isn't really all that expensive, unless you just plain suck at finding bargains at your local grocery store. They happen quite frequently, and you often see those cheap flyers advertising discounts and store points. In which case, if we're speaking of those people who can barely pay their bills, I don't blame them; the fact that poorer people exist in no way helps the fact that they still owe some company some money, and they have no food on the table, and no means to provide it.

The job market.....Oh come on, so many people bitching that they can not find a job are people who are not looking for a job, are not motivated, or just plain feel sorry for themselves.....do you know how many countries dont even have a middle class? so many countries only have the rich and the poor. their is no middle ground. I am living in Beijing and HERE.. 4 years of college is equivilant to a high school diploma in america and even when they get their first job they are stuck renting a small ass apartment with only enough to afford the very basic of needs. And the largest population comes from the country where they have no education and they move to the city to compete agaisnt all those who do...because being a farmer is not paying shit and they dont even have the technology to farm effeciently anyhow.

And I don't think a lot of people are unaware that there are countries out there where people have it worse off than themselves. I think they just choose to see it differently from you. I don't see it as being significant because some poor sap having a crappy job halfway across the world or not even having one at all doesn't affect my chances at employment, nor does it help me find a job, and if I were sponging off of welfare (not that I would), it doesn't give me a reason to stop doing it. And even if I were genuinely interested in finding a job, it doesn't guarantee that I'm even remotely interested in doing it for unselfish reasons. If you've seen the kind of competition that goes on in finding a job, you'll see that very few people are looking for a job for unselfish reasons. It may have unselfish benefits, since you're probably doing work for a company or the government, but that may not be the direct intentions of any given employee.

You people need to stop bitching. When I worked at a gas station when I was 18...6 years ago. I sold smokes to this man and he said "4 dollars a pack?!" "this country is going to shit." I remember thinking.....that there are so many countries that already ARE shit. Yet to the average american we see only our problems and we complain about only our problems.

And I don't think those other countries are going to change his mind. If he thinks expensive tobacco means the country is going to shit, it doesn't matter if other countries already are shit, it doesn't change his view in the slightest. Not that I agree with him, but if we're headed for the shitter for other more significant reasons like religious indoctrination, and all those other problems caused by religion (see creationism in schools and gay marriage), and a bad education system, and there already exist other countries already in the shitter because they also have bad education systems and problems caused by religion, or religious governments, that's still not a reason to ignore these problems. I don't want to see our government turn to religion for advice, I don't want to see creationism being taught in science classes, I don't want to encourage the idea of parents forcing their religion on their children, and I don't want to see gay marriages being banned, and shitty countries aren't going to stop me from complaining about these problems.

So I don't think this has anything to do with comparing countries that happen to be worse than yours; it has to do with whether or not what people actually complain about are actually things that will affect the way our country is going. Not stuff that you can't change like tobacco prices.

Once again I love my country everyone, I am thankful for being raised in a big house and having a good family, good education. This are all things that we should be greatful for. Yet remember that having this lifestlye does not come free, and that america has always developed and grown stronger or weaker through war. And many times these thing we have to be greatful for comes at the cost of others suffering. So do not bite the hand that feeds people.

I happen to think that if there's any chance for improvement, then we should point it out at any given opportunity. It may involve complaining. It may sometimes involve actually doing something. So long as what we are complaining about is significant and true, then it is a valid complaint, and needs to be addressed. Comparing ourselves with people who have it worse than ourselves doesn't help to acknowledge that there might be a problem, nor does it help improve our current situation.

I am one of those people who would like to dream about a world united and not just a country, so next time you complain about something so trivial.....Stop, and remember. That you are living in a country where hard work can make you rich if you persisit. where you can drive, where crime is being regulated to keep you safe, where people can have homes, where you are protected by your powerful government in (compared to the majority of the world) very pleasant lives. And think about complaining for real reasons. Its about time americans started considering that they are not the only people on this planet and that maybe...just maybe...they are very lucky...not better...but lucky

Well, that's only partly true. America works on a capitalism system, so if you're already rich, it's just going to get better. And if you're poor, it sucks to be you. So you'd actually have to do a lot more work than the people who already have more money than you, and be a lot more lucky.

I hope you don't take my post the wrong way because I think we actually agree, but for different reasons.

I am not speaking to everyone, I know there are so many Americans who are not spoiled and whom are not arrogant or ignorant, as I am one of them. Yet in general, we have so many that are.

I actually separate people's complaints from the people that complain themselves. So people who happen to be selfish, spoiled, arrogant or ignorant may not have good reasons for complaining, but they may still be complaining about something valid. I happen to dislike people who are spoiled or arrogant, but not the people who are selfish or ignorant because we all maintain a certain degree of selfishness and ignorance. But my dislike of some of these people doesn't mean they don't have anything worth complaining about. I evaluate what people complain about on a case by case basis. I decide for myself if what they have to complain about is reasonable. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter why they're complaining; different people with different backgrounds can make the same complaints for different reasons.

 

[Roland_Deschain]

Well man I am just going to give you a general overview because you quoted out almost everyone of my lines. In general I think that we agree on many things but because this was a "Rant" I didnt really clear up the kinds of people complaining and for what reasons.

In general I am aiming at the people who complain when there is something they can do about it, but dont attepmt to do anything about it.

People who do use welfare and dont need it.

People who complain about their goverment for only things that affect themselves and never things that affect the world around them.

This thread is targeted at the spoiled and self centered people. I am not saying that all americans are like this and I didnt say they were not allowed to complain. I just think that people shoud consider more often what they are complaining about.

Actually I agree with you when you said we are aggree with each other just for different reasons. Yet actually I agree with you for also the reasons you stated and not only my own, perhaps some of yours are even more clear than mine...but hey..it was just a rant =).

None the less though it baffles me about the number of spoiled and ignorant people there are in America. I know there is a lot of logical people on this website, and I know you have all heard ignorant people complain about pointless shit for selfcentered reasons many times.

As for china sure they are starting to bloom into power and grow into a solid country. Yet you have to consider the situation they are in now is somewhat a paradox that can only be broken by some major social changes. The stability they bring to western countries is good for them but other countries like America are starting to turn toward Korea and japan for a lower price(also I believe its an attempt to outsource china). Also people dont want to be farmers anymore because it does not pay...not too mention the citys are already overpopulated and 80 percent of the people are farmers anyhow. Meanwhile they still buy technology from America, they dont even make their own passenger airplanes. Now I agree with you when you say by 2050 they might be well off, but it won't be that easy. I also think it will be very intresting for the world to watch them do it.

I am not telling people they shouldnt complain. I am just saying sometimes I get bothered because even though our country has it so much better, we will still complain about every little thing that could possibly be wrong no matter how trivial it is. Regardless the reason, war, religious beliefs, it does not matter, we will never start caring about the rest of the world because our lives can never be good enough.

 

[Sum1sgruj]

We pay the price for our freedoms. It's called taxes. That's if you are fortunate enough to have a decent job. If not, your freedoms don't really mean much. America will be the first to fall in a critical economical collapse, which by the way is in the danger zone as it is. Everything is expensive. It's due to the gov't wasting time not being efficient, the middle class is declining, Republicans are greedy, Democrats are lazy, most county revenue comes from courts and jails, so of course your going to jail , people are more worried about banning McDonald toys and cigarettes when they should be encouraging them to $spend$, crime rates are up, college entries are down, unemployment is up, social services are starving, and healthcare is going to soon be a mandatory policy. Because everyone is broke.

There's a real rant for you.

 

[Roland_Deschain]

Exactly man. I am ranting at people who are not ranting at these things at all. I am ranting at those people that have decent lives but still complain about all the stupid shit thinking its unfair. I agree that its in a bad state, yet it won't be the first time the country has had a deppresion and if they do it wont be the first time they recover from one. Let us just hope the countrys higher class can begin looking at the country instead of there own lives. Corruption and greed knows no ends when you are getting what you want.

 

[bearsfwd]

I don't care if you complain, but you better have a damn good reason to be complaining. You don't like a policy that was put into affect? Are you complaining because you generally don't agree with it, or are you complaining because it wasn't a policy supported by the political party you support?

You can't even say that everyone who is complaining about being unable to find a job are ones who aren't even looking hard. That is such a baseless assumption. Sure there are a lot of lazy and unmotivated people in America, but there are also a lot of honest, hardworking individuals who were put out on their asses so big CEOs could make MORE money. I had the damnedest time finding a job. I WAS LOOKING. Sure, maybe I could have done more, but the fact is, I was looking, and I would either get no response, or if I did have an interview, they would turn me down. I have a job now, so it is a moot point.

I'm sorry, Ambassador_Awesome, but you decided to leave and go live in China. That's great that you wanted to do that and did it, but why are you complaining about things over here if you don't even live here now? Start complaining when you come back to live in the US.

 

[Roland_Deschain]

I'm sorry, Ambassador_Awesome, but you decided to leave and go live in China. That's great that you wanted to do that and did it, but why are you complaining about things over here if you don't even live here now? Start complaining when you come back to live in the US.

I will be coming back to America. My girlfriend is actually a chinese whom I met working in America. And I also stay in close touch with people I know back in America. I dont think that me not being there at the current moment means that I am not American. And also you people keep on looking at this thread and assuming the meaning and not looking at the main concept. I never said those looking for jobs are the only ones complaining. Actually everyone who has actually debated with me has pretty much agreed with me. You said even yourself it doesnt matter if complain as long as you complain for a good reason. Lets stop pretending that there are not a lot of ignorant people who are complaining only due to their own personal disposition and start looking at the big picture in general. When the largest majority of people continue leading the spoiled lives with concern for number #1 only than we are only going to ever stay that way. 2 of you guys agreed with me just for different reasons, one of you debated just for the hell of it, and I think me and you only disagree because you dont grasp the big picture of what I am saying. Maybe we should sometimes realize we are pretty lucky and bite our tounge when complain about taxes on a luxery that so many do not have, I am talking about growing morality and taking a humanity look at things. I am not telling people that they have too, I am merely looking to see if anyone else feels this way and it seems they do. As I said before I love my country and I am proud to be American but sometimes I am not proud of how the world see's Americans a lot of the time and I wish the peoples voice was more united so that things could be a little better.

I am a little surprised about the peoples responses, honestly I thought there would be more people that feel the way I do, but also I think this thread is being misinterpreted by all those except Der astronaum and Dark Shadow. Anyway to slow down confusion form others all I am saying in "general" is that there are too many spoiled americans who complain about the wrong things...that is if they want change. You can not change the way things are by just bitching about the state of things you can only change them by bitching at the people who are changing them.

The only reason to disagree here is if you are saying that you dont think there are a lot of Americans who ARE spoiled and that ARE ignorant. I am not pointing a finger at everyone, I am pointing a finger at those who spoiled and ignorant. I am pointing the finger at every person who just says we sohuld have bombed Iraq and got it over with (for humanitys sake), I am pointing a finger at every person who complains about gas shortage and then turns around to bitch about wars in the middle east(its a contradiction).

Its not hard to see that we have a lot of lees than reputable people with money, and its not hard to see that they are never satisfied enough. That is what I am ranting about.

 

[der Astronom]

Well man I am just going to give you a general overview because you quoted out almost everyone of my lines. In general I think that we agree on many things but because this was a "Rant" I didnt really clear up the kinds of people complaining and for what reasons.

In general I am aiming at the people who complain when there is something they can do about it, but dont attepmt to do anything about it.

Ja, it wasn't obvious because you were complaining that they were being selfish and spoiled rather than saying they should get off their lazy asses. Because you can be selfish and still do something about your own situation; you'd still be selfish if you didn't either. Not choosing to do something when you can is laziness, not necessarily selfishness.

And actually, laziness, like selfishness is also useless. Just imagine what we'd be doing without computers decades ago. But because we're lazy to some degree, we'd rather have the computer organize all our paperwork instead. But that's probably a different discussion for a different thread, so that's all I'll say on it.

People who do use welfare and dont need it.

People who complain about their goverment for only things that affect themselves and never things that affect the world around them.

I understand what you're complaining about, and again, this is where we differ. You seem to care about the people making only complaints about their own country and not caring about other people's countries, and I only care about the complaints themselves. I don't really care who makes the complaints.

This thread is targeted at the spoiled and self centered people. I am not saying that all americans are like this and I didnt say they were not allowed to complain. I just think that people shoud consider more often what they are complaining about.

Again, how do you distinguish between people who are necessarily selfish because they have no choice, and people who are selfish because they can? Is it just the people who are too lazy to do anything about their own situation that you have a problem with, or people who happen to be both selfish and ignorant (I'll address that in a moment), and have the means to help people other than themselves? I just think using the term selfish is too general and doesn't get your point across.

Personally, I just choose not to involve myself in other people's affairs because how they spend their personal wealth is none of my business. Besides, there are quite a few rich people who have charities and donate money to people in underdeveloped countries.

Actually I agree with you when you said we are aggree with each other just for different reasons. Yet actually I agree with you for also the reasons you stated and not only my own, perhaps some of yours are even more clear than mine...but hey..it was just a rant =).

Well, if it helps clear up some of the points you were trying to make, I'm happy for you.

None the less though it baffles me about the number of spoiled and ignorant people there are in America. I know there is a lot of logical people on this website, and I know you have all heard ignorant people complain about pointless shit for selfcentered reasons many times.

I'm actually not too bothered by people who are ignorant because ignorance can be cured; you can inform someone of something, and they'll be less ignorant of certain issues. Actually, we're never fully cured of ignorance though; we are only cured of ignorance of particular matters, but in the grand scheme of things, we're still pretty ignorant. There's lots of stuff we don't know, and stuff we'll probably never know.
It would actually be a problem though if you were willfully ignorant or possibly arrogant because then being informed about something doesn't affect what you're willing to consider.
However, I don't think lots of people would be ignorant about the underdeveloped countries on this planet. We might not have been to China or India or Africa, but we know enough about them to know they don't have it as nice as we do here. So I don't think they're self centered because they're ignorant of poor countries. They're probably just complaining because they can.

As for china sure they are starting to bloom into power and grow into a solid country. Yet you have to consider the situation they are in now is somewhat a paradox that can only be broken by some major social changes. The stability they bring to western countries is good for them but other countries like America are starting to turn toward Korea and japan for a lower price(also I believe its an attempt to outsource china). Also people dont want to be farmers anymore because it does not pay...not too mention the citys are already overpopulated and 80 percent of the people are farmers anyhow. Meanwhile they still buy technology from America, they dont even make their own passenger airplanes. Now I agree with you when you say by 2050 they might be well off, but it won't be that easy. I also think it will be very intresting for the world to watch them do it.

I think all countries that are now developed existed in some state before in which it was not favorable for people. I mean, look at places in Europe and America from before. There was no gender equality, there were black slaves in the States, and religion basically took control of governments in Europe for some time. They tortured the wrong people, they discriminated against Jews and others, and it was just crap living in Nazi Germany. Now Germany and most parts of Europe are nice places to live in, as are the States and Canada. They weren't that way before though. People had to fight tooth and nail to get those rights and freedoms that we value so much now. So poverty and underdeveloped countries or their equivalents don't exist just now, they also exist in history as well. I suppose that's why some people are rather appreciative of living in America, and complaining might just be seen as a means of improving it in the same way I see how America was formed - I think it was a reaction to the repulsive way in which European countries used to treat their citizens.

Again, I happen to think that not all complaints are valid. Some of them don't deserve any attention (creationism in science should be shot down, for example), and others, regardless of if they originally came from someone selfish or ignorant (okay, or even arrogant or spoiled), are important for the country and deserve at least some consideration.

I am not telling people they shouldnt complain. I am just saying sometimes I get bothered because even though our country has it so much better, we will still complain about every little thing that could possibly be wrong no matter how trivial it is. Regardless the reason, war, religious beliefs, it does not matter, we will never start caring about the rest of the world because our lives can never be good enough.

Well, I happen to think we should sort out the problems at home first before bothering to help someone else. If you can't help yourself, you can't help others. If you don't even have enough money to support yourself, you can't be bothered to donate money to people in underdeveloped countries. And some Americans are in that position. I agree it would be nice if people were encouraged to learn more about the world out there, but what they do with their time and money, and what they choose to complain about is ultimately their problem. I don't know why, but I'm just not bothered. Afterall, I can choose to ignore the complaints I find trivial.